Talk:La France Insoumise
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name lfi finally as a far left party as it was named such by MINISTRY OF INTERIOR
editand that has been sourced Venis067067067 (talk) 11:21, 6 February 2026 (UTC)
- now called by the french president a far left party Venis067067067 (talk) 11:52, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
- But how relevant is the opinion of politicians who are hostile to the political party in question? Obviously, politicians from opposing political parties will criticize each other, including by calling each other extremists. An encyclopedia should use the analysis of political scientists rather than the diatribes of political figures... Eleventh1 (talk) 19:12, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
- opinion of politicians ? it's the MINISTRY OF INTERIOR who classifiés parties, you can't get more of a reliable source than a state ministry which is btw, impartial. Venis067067067 (talk) 09:01, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
- and also there's no consensus from political scientists, some call it far left and some left, so at least add "left wing to far left" why are we just choosing left??? what's the logic behind that? there's plenty of political scientists who do think this party is far left and that can be sourced if you want me to Venis067067067 (talk) 09:03, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
- The minister is by definition partisan, since they are indeed a member of a party that is opposed to LFI. The sourcing that should be used is that of scholarly articles by subject matter experts, not opinions of politicians from opposing parties. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 11:28, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
- You only take into account the opinions of political scientists who support La France Insoumise (Gaël Brustier, Pierre Martin, Pascal Perrineau), and you reject the views of political scientists such as Pierre Vercauteren, Martin Deleixhe, and Jean-Loup Amselle, among others, who classify it as far-left.
- These people have often done similar work and hold comparable positions, yet you choose to suppress information.
- They are all sme. Deremig (talk) 09:58, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- As of today, who designates LFI as far-left:
- - some political scientists (Pierre Vercauteren, Nonna Mayer, Henri Weber, Federico Tarragoni, Martin Deleixhe, Jean-Loup Amselle, Dominique Reynié)
- - the President and the Minister of the Interior of France
- - 70% of the population (https://www.ifop.com/article/le-regard-des-francais-sur-la-classification-a-lextreme-gauche-de-la-france-insoumise)
- Who designates LFI as left:
- - some political scientists (Philippe Buton, Christine Pina, Aurélien Dubuisson, Paolo Stuppia, Pascal Perrineau, Luc Rouban) Deremig (talk) 10:13, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- If there is reliable sourcing supporting the label, please provide it. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 11:27, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- Column by SME Matthieu Hocque : https://www.lejdd.fr/politique/lfi-classee-a-lextreme-gauche-fin-du-privilege-rouge-et-debut-de-celui-de-lextreme-centre-166737
- Debate between two SME
- https://www.liberation.fr/politique/lfi-a-lextreme-gauche-le-point-de-vue-de-deux-chercheurs-20260211_DW6CABXXOBF3RFO4MIR54DHZ4Q/
- It is important to understand that, since the former sources of the article, LFI’s program and actions have changed. Two years ago, I would not have tried to label it as far-left, but now, violent actions and antisemitism pushes me to act so that the world understands the situation ~2026-10706-02 (talk) 12:00, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- As far as I can tell, one of those is just a news article reporting on the classification by the Ministry of the Interior and the other is an opinion piece from a tabloid that has been accused of having a far-right editorial stance. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 12:06, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- Can you read french or not? Neither of these article are directly reporting the classification. It's SME analysing the classification, exactly the things you asked. You didn't even bother to read. Don't worry between the ballot papers classified as far-left and the new classification by the Council of State coming soon, you will not be able to sidestep the issue.
- And again, you are calling a legitimate source as a tabloid, because you like censure. ~2026-10697-83 (talk) 14:57, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- As far as I can tell, one of those is just a news article reporting on the classification by the Ministry of the Interior and the other is an opinion piece from a tabloid that has been accused of having a far-right editorial stance. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 12:06, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- If there is reliable sourcing supporting the label, please provide it. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 11:27, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- If Le Pen's National Rally is called far-right despite its compromise policies and years of leaning toward the center, then the LFI deserves even more the label of far-left.
- Wikipedia is biased at this point and favors the left, since it applies such blatant double standards. ~2026-10786-19 (talk) 13:38, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is based on reliable sourcing, not the personal opinions of its contributors. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 13:39, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- Sources can also be biased, as you yourself admitted when you called the Ministry of Internal Affairs an unreliable source because it's run by a different party.
- You, however, choose political scientists who often openly hold leftist views, completely ignoring those who classify the LFI as far left. ~2026-10786-19 (talk) 14:03, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
Sources can also be biased
, correct, that's why there is ore-established criteria for what classifies as a reliable source. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 14:05, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is based on reliable sourcing, not the personal opinions of its contributors. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 13:39, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- opinion of politicians ? it's the MINISTRY OF INTERIOR who classifiés parties, you can't get more of a reliable source than a state ministry which is btw, impartial. Venis067067067 (talk) 09:01, 16 February 2026 (UTC)
- But how relevant is the opinion of politicians who are hostile to the political party in question? Obviously, politicians from opposing political parties will criticize each other, including by calling each other extremists. An encyclopedia should use the analysis of political scientists rather than the diatribes of political figures... Eleventh1 (talk) 19:12, 15 February 2026 (UTC)
- Sorry @Eleventh1, I should have checked if there was a discussion beforehand, and my truncated edit message did not help make my point clear.
- However, what I haven't seen in this debate is their links to the violent and radical group Jeune Garde antifasciste (if you can read French), which should in corroboration with the judgment by the minister of the interior warrant at least the mention of far-left aside "left".
- BTW @~2026-10706-02 I don't believe Le JDD is a reliable source (and I say it even more readily as I know personally the author :-)). Hplotter (talk) 15:52, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
- Hi, it's alright, I understand that this page is difficult to navigate with all the different sections. I think that the ties with the Jeune Garde can be mentioned in the article as Raphaël Arnault is an obvious link between them (I can indeed read French but there are also English-language sources on this topic: for example, there were three recent articles about this affair in the Guardian).
- However, this does not automatically change the classification of the political party itself. For instance, in the 60s and 70s, there was a very violent group called the SAC (Service d'Action Civique) associated with the Gaullists (UNR, then UDR, then RPR), yet these political parties were never classified as far-right (and for good reasons). I understand that people are very passionate about this issue but, in an encyclopaedia, we should try to be as dispassionate as possible. Eleventh1 (talk) 20:22, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
- That's a good point, though it doesn't fundamentally change my mind, as there are enough RS classifying it as far left to at least mention it. Hplotter (talk) 14:44, 21 February 2026 (UTC)
it's pretty clear that these people only listen to political scientists that fit their beliefs, lmao, wikipedia is known for being extremely biased. if we were unbiased we would list LFI as far left Venis067067067 (talk) 10:19, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- Left to far-left is ok, because it's the reality, the last version was enough ~2026-10597-40 (talk) 11:14, 17 February 2026 (UTC)
- my brother in christ people need to stop changing it Venis067067067 (talk) 08:14, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
Decorum
edit- Uninvolved Comment As for the factual aspect, I agree with the users who say Wikipedia should categorize LFI as far-left. There is ample sourcing for that and it is hard to see how it could even be contested (PS and PCF are both "left" and LFI is clearly far to the left of both). That said, I really must urge some users above to revisit their line of argumentation. Personal accusations are never acceptable, not in any situation. Generic accusations of "bias" are also not helpful. In short, if you want to categorize LFI as far left, you need to understand that you making that argument has no bearing (same as if I make that argument). What you need to do is to cool down, discuss rationally without emotional outbursts, and factually present the reliable sources that categorize LFI as far left. Jeppiz (talk) 12:22, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
- Thanks for this comment. I just want to point out (absolutely not directed at you) that nobody in this discussion has provided WP:RS that support the label, the only two sources are two opinion pieces published on news websites, and there aren't any journals or peer-reviewed studies that have been brought up. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 12:36, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
- I don't personally have an opinion on the party being left-wing or far-left, I simply follow the sources, which state both. Intellectual honesty therefore commands us to mention "left-wing to far-left" both in the infobox (at "political position") and in the introductory sentence. The [A] note in the infobox sums this up well. PalleyCov2030 (talk) 12:42, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
- There has still been no demonstration in this discussion of sources that demonstrate due weight to include it. The note in the infobox mentions the label, and unless it can be shown that there are a significant amount of reliable sources using the label, I don't see anything compelling us to include it in wikivoice. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 12:46, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
- In addition to the ones mentioned by Deremig:
- https://www.lenouveleconomiste.fr/financial-times/jean-luc-melenchon-la-conflictualite-est-le-fondement-de-la-gauche/
- https://www.leparisien.fr/politique/melenchon-et-le-pen-renvoient-a-une-vision-ultra-simple-de-la-societe-21-04-2017-6872514.php
- https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/elections-legislatives-choquee-par-la-purge-au-sein-de-lfi-tondelier-convoque-les-instances-d-eelv-20240615
- https://www.tf1info.fr/politique/la-france-insoumise-n-est-pas-d-extreme-gauche-assure-manuel-bompard-l-avis-d-un-historien-2252956.html
- https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cnkkng554w8o Hplotter (talk) 17:18, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
- There has still been no demonstration in this discussion of sources that demonstrate due weight to include it. The note in the infobox mentions the label, and unless it can be shown that there are a significant amount of reliable sources using the label, I don't see anything compelling us to include it in wikivoice. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 12:46, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
- I don't personally have an opinion on the party being left-wing or far-left, I simply follow the sources, which state both. Intellectual honesty therefore commands us to mention "left-wing to far-left" both in the infobox (at "political position") and in the introductory sentence. The [A] note in the infobox sums this up well. PalleyCov2030 (talk) 12:42, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
who doesn't agree to name lfi as "left wing to far left" and state your arguments as to why, we need a consensus
editplease Venis067067067 (talk) 08:16, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
- Hi, while I agree that we should discuss the topic on this talk page, could you use a presentation similar to the "RfC: How should the political position of La France Insoumise be described?" sections (parts 1 and 2), so that contributors can choose between the different options? Could you also please take into account what has already been said in these sections to avoid endless repetition? And, last but not least, if you and other contributors could provide scholarly/academic sources to support their position, that would be great. Thanks Eleventh1 (talk) 10:03, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
- Note: if you wanted to establish a proper consensus here, this isn't the way to go about it, opening up a neutrally-worded WP:RFC is the appropriate method in this scenario. Also, WP:ONUS is on the contributors who wish to add content to establish a consensus. So far, there haven't been any compelling arguments to do so nor any reliable non-opinion piece sources provided. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 21:43, 18 February 2026 (UTC)
RFC, 2nd edition in light of the reclassification of the Minister of the interior.
edit
Should the political position of La France Insoumise be described as:
- Left-wing
- Radical left-wing
- Far-left
- Left-wing to far-left
- Left-wing to radical left-wing
- Radical left-wing to far-left
Hplotter (talk) 17:35, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
- C, D or F Hplotter (talk) 17:37, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
- C Venis067067067 (talk) 19:04, 19 February 2026 (UTC)
- D, as the government classifies it far-left, but there is ongoing debate about it being left-wing or far-left, as for example mentioned here. PalleyCov2030 (talk) 01:54, 20 February 2026 (UTC)
- A is the existing consensus and I would support to keep it. If we really needed to change it, E would be the most descriptive and my second choice (I think C and F send the wrong message as they liken LFI to Trotskyist or anarchist groups. This creates confusion as their recent political strategy was the opposite of theirs, as they tried to create a large left-wing coalition for electoral purposes, a typical strategy of social democratic parties, not of the far left). When we look at scholarly discourse on the topic, La France Insoumise is consistently described as left-wing, with 'populist' or 'populism' being the most common additional terms used. I am not a fan of these terms, but they are well documented: for instance here, here, here and here (note that I have taken as examples the first few relevant results on Google Scholar, so to not be biased by choosing authors I already know and may agree or disagree with but, of course, a lot of other political scientists use the same terms) --Eleventh1 (talk) 10:02, 20 February 2026 (UTC)
- A, the Minister of the Interior is not a reliable source, he is a politician from a party known to be hostile to LFI. Pre-established consensus was generally of the opinion that the sources that should be used for wikivoice claims on this article are scholarly and academic sources, as WP:NEWSORGs tend to be more loose with the term than academic papers are, and I'm not aware of any notable amount of academic study that supports that conclusion. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 00:11, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
- C as news organizations are still considered reliable. My second choice would be any of these, except for A. Wikieditor662 (talk) 04:30, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
- A or D. We have plenty of sources to maintain left-wing and it would not be due weight to leave something so well cited out of the infobox. Given scholars don't agree on the definition of far-left, that is much more debatable. Helper201 (talk) 09:42, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
- Hello, Helper201. Yesterday, I read the following in The Daily Telegraph: At the start of February, the French government officially classified Melenchon’s La France Insoumise party as “extreme-Left”. And I see the following on a French website for the legal profession, dating from the 10/2/2026, which seems to confirm what that article says
- "Le ministère de l’Intérieur a classé La France insoumise à l’extrême gauche de l’échiquier politique dans le cadre de l’attribution des nuances en vue des élections municipales de 2026. Le parti a contesté cette décision et a déposé un recours devant le Conseil d'État."]
- Incidentally, other editors could benefit from the knowledge that your Userid was today warned about sockpuppetry on account of edits to the article on the Traditional Unionist Voice political party under a Temporary Account with the Userid ~2026-11445-55. Here is the warning: User Talk Page Helper201. Bonne Soirée. BrownBowler (talk) 16:06, 22 February 2026 (UTC)
- That definetly sounds like it could help BrownBowler, thank you. We will need more than one scholarly source to make any sort of judgement on whether scholars in general share this analysis though. Not that I'm saying they do or do not, my initial reading was based on a note on this page indicating scholars don't agree on the matter.
- I must however address your personal attack. That warning has absolutely nothing to do with this page. Your public promotion and spreading of it only appears to be in attempt to discredit my reputation. It is in no way relevant to this page or discussion. Helper201 (talk) 01:15, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
- Nearly all the claims that LFI is simply left-wing in the medias are openly based on the decision of the then minister of the Interior to classify it as such (more exactly, the judgment of the Conseil d'État that validated this classification). But as discussed here, this assessment has been revised and it now classifies it as far left. Hplotter (talk) 18:47, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
- Helper201, if you feel that my comment above is a personal attack on you then please tell either Wikipedia Admin or myself which of these forms of personal attack you are referring to. In that list, my eye is drawn to the following element: "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence, usually in the form of diffs and links.". And here is where I provided Wikipedia Admin with the diffs and links that prompted their speedy reaction to my complaint about your conduct.
- You say that my mention of the Sockpuppet warning you received on 22 February 2026 "is in no way relevant to this page or discussion.". Yes it is. Your conduct across the whole Wikipedia Project is relevant to your contribution to any single Wikipedia page.
- As for this article on La France Insoumise, I'd plump for either :C or :D. One thing to watch out for in this discussion is when there is insistence that only "scholarly" sources are of value; Secondary Sources or even Primary Sources, such as the French Ministry of the Interior, are also valuable (Primary Sources are valid as Wikipedia Sources so long as there is no original research by the editor). I also note your comment above on 22 February where you say "scholars don't agree on the definition of far-left": if there is no agreed definition for the term "far-left", then any suggestion that a political party be assigned the Political Position of "far-left" could be vetoed for want of a definition of the term. BrownBowler (talk) 21:00, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
- @BrownBowler Ok, and this is the reason why it's perfectly fine to write in the body of the article "The French Ministry for Interior classified LFI as extreme-left" using the official statement, but here we're talking about the infobox and the lead, where we provide a political position written in wikivoice, that should reflect the general consensus on the matter. Per WP:BESTSOURCES we shouldn't rely on primary sources to establish the consensus among RS on a specific matter and per WP:SOURCETYPES we should prefer scholar material. Even the policy that you cited says very clearly that we shouldn't put undue weight on a primary source. --Friniate ✉ 19:48, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
- I agree with you though when you say that it's not necessary that there is a consensus on the "far-left" position, what it's needed to include that label in the lead is that that view is sufficiently represented among RS (so if there were, let's say, 60% of the sources stating that it's left-wing and 40% stating that it's far-left, then we should include far-left; if the percentages were more something like 90-10, then, no; but in order to express an informed opinion we should first do a review of RS on the issue). --Friniate ✉ 19:52, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
- @BrownBowler Ok, and this is the reason why it's perfectly fine to write in the body of the article "The French Ministry for Interior classified LFI as extreme-left" using the official statement, but here we're talking about the infobox and the lead, where we provide a political position written in wikivoice, that should reflect the general consensus on the matter. Per WP:BESTSOURCES we shouldn't rely on primary sources to establish the consensus among RS on a specific matter and per WP:SOURCETYPES we should prefer scholar material. Even the policy that you cited says very clearly that we shouldn't put undue weight on a primary source. --Friniate ✉ 19:48, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
- C For consistency and going by WP:RS, alternatively F. Jeppiz (talk) 14:54, 23 February 2026 (UTC)
- Bad RfC Whether a party should be described as (extreme) left or (extreme) right wing is not up for vote. Wikipedia needs to follow the reliable sources (and a government is not reliable, no matter on which part of the spectrum they are, so their claims should be attributed per WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV). And of course a (far) right government describes anything to the left of hunting the poor for sport as extreme left-wing communism.
Compare nlwiki: In the media, LFI is presented with some regularity as a far-left party, and according to political scientist Aurélien Dubuisson, this mistake is made in particular due to the rightward shift of politics.[1] The ideology of the party is, according to another political scientist, Rémi Lefebvre, not to be described as revolutionary, but rather reformist. For instance, the party does not advocate the abolition of capitalism, does not propose leaving the market economy, but rather strong regulation of the market by the state, and supports a high level of public spending. LFI therefore supports an interventionist, reformist socialism.[2]
Polygnotus (talk) 04:26, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
- I agree with Polygnotus, bad RFC. We should first analyze many reliable sources (especially the academic ones, since this is an academic topic), not just two or three, and then draw a conclusion about the consensus among RS (there is another ongoing RFC on a party's political position in which it was done exactly this process, I'm not going to link it since I'm unsure wether it would be considered canvassing). The Ministry of Interior is a primary source and it should be irrelevant. I don't see how we could possibly caste !votes before having done that.--Friniate ✉ 18:41, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
- Here are some scholar opinions: https://elicit.com/agent/acf29713-bc37-4d14-8a0c-6eef9d67a471.
- The LLM summarizes them as “radical left”.
- Here's the same question in French: https://elicit.com/agent/a9255622-e6bb-4143-89c2-4668b930ef1c; the LLMs summarize the scholar opinions as “radical left“.
a (far) right government describes anything to the left of hunting the poor for sport as extreme left-wing communism.
- The current government and president are centrist, not (far) right, so I don't know what this sentence is for. Hplotter (talk) 15:49, 26 February 2026 (UTC)
- LLMs are not RS, and looking at those sessions, the term "radical left" is used anyway, which is a distinct category, particularly in French politics. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 21:52, 26 February 2026 (UTC)
- I didn't write it because it seems obvious to me, but the RS are sources on which the LLM bases its answer, not the LLM answer. You can easily see them at the end of each assertion by clicking on the scholar's name and forming your opinion. Hplotter (talk) 10:20, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- A cursory glance at the sources listed do not explicitly support the label. LLMs are known to hallucinate, so if you have actual sources backing up the claim, then provide those (alongside proof that the label is supported in said sources). – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 10:30, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- As I said, the sources are at the end of each assertion and by clicking on the "View X items" element. Copying them here won't achieve anything, but if that's what you want, here are 2:
- Jean-Luc Mélenchon and France Insoumise
- P. Marlière; The Populist Radical Left in Europe · 2019
- "In the run-up to the 2017 presidential election in France, Jean-Luc Melenchon who, so far, had been associated with the radical left [..]"
- From The Front de gauche to La France insoumise: Causes and Consequences of the Conversion of the French Radical Left to Populism ; C. Alexandre, Antoine Bristielle, and 1 more 2021
- "[..] this article shows how the space of the French radical left has evolved since the 2000s."
- A recurring stance is also that it's a populist party.
- I am under the impression (yes, I know, it's not worth much) that it has radicalized itself since its inception, so I think the more recent sources, the better. Hplotter (talk) 11:12, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- Thanks, but as I said, radical left is a distinct category, particularly in French politics. The English term "far-left" is translated into French as "extrême gauche" and vice versa. So the sources do not, in fact, support a "far-left" descriptor for the party. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 11:18, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- I did not say the opposite :) (I only voted for the far left before seeing myself corrected). The current classification, however, simply says left-wing. Hplotter (talk) 11:23, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- Since "radical left" is not a well-defined phenomenon, nor is there an article on it, "left-wing" is the most WP:NPOV way to describe the party. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 11:29, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- I don't believe there is anything that says as such in NPOV, and we should stick to what the sources say. I don't see how not being well-defined is an issue (besides, the word « radical » does a good job at defining the concept). But even if your points were corrects, why should we fall back to « left » and not « far left »? Hplotter (talk) 12:46, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- Unfortunately there is a need for a community discussion on the matter. Very recently a lot of users made an argument about a radical right party, claiming that we should avoid using labels such as "far-right" or "radical right". I think that this argument doesn't hold water (it just makes a little more sense for "radical left" since there is no article about it, but that could be obviously solved) and potentially violates NPOV, but of course we should keep a common standard across the encyclopedia, and it wouldn't be acceptable to deprecate the use of "far-right" and "radical right" and not the use of "far-left" and "radical left" (or vice versa).... --Friniate ✉ 16:01, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- Anyway, in the next days I hope to manage to open a subpage dedicated to a thorough source review on the matter (if someone wants to anticipate me I won't be offended XD) --Friniate ✉ 16:06, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- Here are some sources which may be of use on your subpage (I know this is rather long).
- French national radio website confirms that the Conseil d'Etat has rejected LFI's appeal against being classified as extreme-left
- France national television confirms it too
- According to the above reports, the Conseil d'Etat gave the following reasons for their decision: LFI's calling into question of judicial authority, its systematic accusations against the police "who kill", its calls for civil disobedience and also the Conseil d'Etat felt it was appropriate to distinguish LFI's classification from that of other parties of the left such as the PS, EELV and PCF (which are classified simply as "left-wing".)
- As to what <<extrême gauche>> means, TF1 has had several goes at answering that:
- French national tv asks if RN and LFI can fairly be classified as extreme (from 2024)"
- This contains an interesting definition of <<extrême gauche>> from the dictionary Larousse: leftist parties which reject liberal parliamentary democracy and advocate total revolution. Another opinion comes from a political scientist whose opinion is that the <<extrême gauche>> engages in electoral politics but isn't totally committed to it, believing that general strikes and similar actions offer an alternative route to power.
- French national tv reports that LFI says it's not far left (from 2023)"
- Philippe Buton, a professor of contemporary history and specialist in french left-wing politics says there's no absolute agreement on the meaning of <<extrême gauche>> but in his opinion, the <<gauche>> seek societal change while respecting the rule of law, the <<ultragauche>> think that societal change can only be brought about by rejecting the rule of law while <<extrême gauche>> are prepared to use both approaches. He says that LFI can seem rather relaxed about the use of violence and appear ambivalent regarding the role of "la rue" in achieving their aim of a new constitution (a VIth Republic).
- He says also that LFI appears ambiguous regarding the degree to which it wants to nationalise industry and confiscate private capital.
- right-wing paper Le Figaro reports on purges within LFI prior to 2024 elections
- Le Figaro has been calling LFI <<extrême gauche>> for quite a while now, even when the Conseil d'Etat classified LFI as <<gauche>>.
- the paper La Croix which often presents a Roman Catholic point of view reports on the new classification of LFI
- This report in La Croix notes that LFI describe themselves as << gauche radicale>>.
- The paper l'Humanité, close to the Parti Communiste Francais, seems to avoid giving LFI any classification at all, so far as my searches show.
- Does anyone know what term the paper Libération ("the paper for all the Left") uses to describe LFI?
- As for english-speaking news media, the BBC and the FT have both published articles which label LFI as "far-left".
- The following are from 2024 (when the Conseil D'Etat still labelled LFI as "left-wing").
- BBC previews the 2024 election in France
- FT looks at the outcome of the 2024 election in France
- As noted a couple of times above, the Telegraph has published some articles recently which describe LFI as "far-left" but,to my memory, was describing LFI as "left-wing" not long ago.
- Le Monde International edition reports on formation of Nouveau Front Populaire left-wing alliance and calls LFI "radical left" i.e. << gauche radicale>>, which is what LFI self-define as.
- Perhaps someone can tell us what is the latest description of LFI in the Guardian, Independent and in news magazines. BrownBowler (talk) 20:56, 1 March 2026 (UTC)
- Anyway, in the next days I hope to manage to open a subpage dedicated to a thorough source review on the matter (if someone wants to anticipate me I won't be offended XD) --Friniate ✉ 16:06, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- Unfortunately there is a need for a community discussion on the matter. Very recently a lot of users made an argument about a radical right party, claiming that we should avoid using labels such as "far-right" or "radical right". I think that this argument doesn't hold water (it just makes a little more sense for "radical left" since there is no article about it, but that could be obviously solved) and potentially violates NPOV, but of course we should keep a common standard across the encyclopedia, and it wouldn't be acceptable to deprecate the use of "far-right" and "radical right" and not the use of "far-left" and "radical left" (or vice versa).... --Friniate ✉ 16:01, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- I don't believe there is anything that says as such in NPOV, and we should stick to what the sources say. I don't see how not being well-defined is an issue (besides, the word « radical » does a good job at defining the concept). But even if your points were corrects, why should we fall back to « left » and not « far left »? Hplotter (talk) 12:46, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- Since "radical left" is not a well-defined phenomenon, nor is there an article on it, "left-wing" is the most WP:NPOV way to describe the party. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 11:29, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2026/02/27/la-france-insoumise-sera-bien-classee-extreme-gauche-par-le-ministere-de-l-interieur-juge-le-conseil-d-etat_6668622_823448.html
- the highest jurisdiction of France confirmed the classification
- is this biased too according to you? Venis067067067 (talk) 17:38, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- I did not say the opposite :) (I only voted for the far left before seeing myself corrected). The current classification, however, simply says left-wing. Hplotter (talk) 11:23, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- Thanks, but as I said, radical left is a distinct category, particularly in French politics. The English term "far-left" is translated into French as "extrême gauche" and vice versa. So the sources do not, in fact, support a "far-left" descriptor for the party. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 11:18, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- A cursory glance at the sources listed do not explicitly support the label. LLMs are known to hallucinate, so if you have actual sources backing up the claim, then provide those (alongside proof that the label is supported in said sources). – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 10:30, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- I didn't write it because it seems obvious to me, but the RS are sources on which the LLM bases its answer, not the LLM answer. You can easily see them at the end of each assertion by clicking on the scholar's name and forming your opinion. Hplotter (talk) 10:20, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
- LLMs are not RS, and looking at those sessions, the term "radical left" is used anyway, which is a distinct category, particularly in French politics. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 21:52, 26 February 2026 (UTC)
- Comment I have already expressed my preference for C but to further develop: when this was discussed last time some years ago, the whole argument for saying "left-wing" rather than "far-left" was that the French Conseil d'État had qualified it as left-wing and that is the reason we used "left-wing" in the infobox. As the Conseil d'État now has changed its description, it is hard to see a reason not to do the same on Wikipedia. The consensus decision was to go by the French conseil d'État as the official version and those who back then argued against saying far-left built the whole argument for "left-wing" around the credibility and relevance of what the French conseil d'État said. With that in mind, we should probably have changed to "far-left" the moment the Conseil d'État changed its official designation. Jeppiz (talk) 14:55, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- Nobody as of yet has provided non WP:NEWSORG sources that support the label, nor has anybody shown any viable reason to exclude the existing "left-wing" label. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 14:59, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- What sources are you looking for? We have plenty of reliable sources reporting that both Ministry of the Interior and the Conseil d'État have changed their previous description from "left-wing" to "far-left" so that is not in doubt. As for why to exclude the previous "left-wing", the simple answer is that when the categorization changes, as it has done for LFI in the last month, Wikipedia should reflect that. That is how Wikipedia works. Jeppiz (talk) 15:25, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- Wikipedia actually works based on what sources say, news sources reporting on the Conseil's classification is not the same as reliable independent sources describing the party as far-left themselves. There are pre-existing sources on this page that have no reason to be superceded describing the party as left-wing. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 15:30, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- You realize the Conseil d'État is France's supreme administrative court and a highly reliable authority on legal matters right ? ][2] Venis067067067 (talk) 15:35, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- Legal matters, not political science, and how exactly have you determined that they're
a highly reliable authority
? They're also the only non-news source I've been able to find who use the label for the party. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 15:39, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- Legal matters, not political science, and how exactly have you determined that they're
- You realize the Conseil d'État is France's supreme administrative court and a highly reliable authority on legal matters right ? ][2] Venis067067067 (talk) 15:35, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- Wikipedia actually works based on what sources say, news sources reporting on the Conseil's classification is not the same as reliable independent sources describing the party as far-left themselves. There are pre-existing sources on this page that have no reason to be superceded describing the party as left-wing. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 15:30, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- Here you go: https://www.conseil-etat.fr/actualites/elections-municipales-2026-le-conseil-d-etat-rejette-les-recours-de-lfi-et-de-l-udr-contre-la-circulaire-attribuant-des-nuances-politiques-pour-l. Hplotter (talk) 15:27, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- I mean I really think it's quite incredible, I don't think there's a source in the world that we could provide to change these people's minds.
- Yes far left sounds bad, it's reality, deal with it Venis067067067 (talk) 15:30, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- I have to agree that opposition to describing LFI as far-left by now starts to look more rooted in WP:IDONTLIKEIT than any policy-based argument. We are talking about a party that actively supported Castro in Cuba, Chavez and Maduro in Venezuela, Putin in Russia, Assad in Syria, and which the highest administrative court has officially categorized as "far-left". From a factual point of view, the matter seems straightforward. Jeppiz (talk) 15:43, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- I wouldn't have an objection to including the label if there were more reliable and independent sources brought up in this discussion that aren't just news sources reporting on the Conseil's classification. However, I still see no reason to remove "left-wing" entirely based on this one event, there are still contemporary sources that don't use the label, and it's WP:UNDUE to exclude them.
- Note: I'd also like to remind editors here of the WP:AGF guideline. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 15:50, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- But you even removed the "radical" in the infobox citing MOS:VAR while we are in the case
unless there is some substantial reason for the change
. there are still contemporary sources that don't use the label
.- Which ones? Hplotter (talk) 16:20, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- It's 3 in the morning right now, I'll provide sources when I get the chance, and "radical" is always excluded from the infobox of political parties, there is no substantial reason for the change when, by definition, radical left parties are left-wing. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 16:23, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- Laura Chazel & Vincent Dain, Journal for the Study of Radicalism (2022) - "The Great Recession (2007-2009) has created a breeding ground allowing the emergence of new left-wing movements in Europe, among which are Podemos and La France insoumise (LFI)."
- Charles Ruben Ulysse Torron, European University Institute (2023) - "La France Insoumise, a left-wing political party, that managed to reorganize the domestic political stage in only a decade."
- Patrick Soulard, LFI, anatomie d'un mouvement politique contemporain (2026) - "LFI : Anatomie d’un mouvement politique contemporain Enquête sur les transformations de la gauche radicale française (2016-2024) Née en 2016 dans un contexte de crise profonde de la gauche française, La France Insoumise s’est imposée en moins d’une décennie comme une force politique majeure, capable de mobiliser des millions d’électeurs, de structurer une opposition parlementaire puissante et de remodeler durablement le paysage politique."
- Municipales 2026 : les alliances avec LFI sont-elles encore tenables ? - "Les nouveaux écarts de Jean-Luc Mélenchon sur Epstein ou Glucksmann... hypothèquent un peu plus les potentielles alliances de second tour aux municipales avec le reste de la gauche."
- France's divided left faces tough choices in local elections - "This election, however, has been made more complicated by France's fractured political landscape and the deep divide between parties on the left - which has been intensified by the killing of far-right activist Quentin Deranque in Lyon, and the arrest of far-left activists, some with links to the hard left La France Insoumise party (LFI)."
- There is also, of course, the sourcing already present in the article as well. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 01:00, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
- Among your recent sources, only sud-ouest classifies it other than hard or radical left by calling "le reste de la gauche", but it does not means that it is simply left wing, as far left is still part of the left to my understanding. Hplotter (talk) 09:34, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
- Hard-left and radical left are not synonymous with "far-left", especially in French politics. Radical left is explicitly separate from the far-left and the label used by the MoI. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 10:08, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
- But as I said, you're even refusing to mention "radical" in the infobox (let alone far let) Hplotter (talk) 13:17, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
- I have no objections to radical left being in the footnote and the article's main text, but including it in the position parameter breaks stylevar. Political party infoboxes never include extra descriptors in the position param, it clutters the infobox and also goes against WP:IBP,
The less information that an infobox contains, the more effectively it serves its purpose
. Radical left is also included in "left-wing" by definition. The party is absolutely radical left, and should be described as such, the infobox position parameter is not an appropriate place to use that descriptor though. I think the footnote definitely needs an update, and should certainly include the radical descriptor, as that's by far the most uncontroversial label. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 22:39, 7 March 2026 (UTC)- No, as I explained, it doesn't break stylevar, sources have changed their denomination. You keep referring to recommendations but I don’t see how they pertain.
- I see 2 possibilities: you are nice with others and accept to at least put "radical" in the infobox; or we go by the majority in the vote which supports the far left label. Both are valid, but you can't have your cake and eat it. Hplotter (talk) 09:42, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
- See WP:NOVOTE, and no you have not explained how stylevar is not broken, you've merely stated that there's "substantial reason" without elaboration. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 09:55, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
- "sources have changed their denomination" (from left to far or radical (which was already the case before the classification by the Conseil d'Etat) left): that's the explanation. Hplotter (talk) 10:33, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
- I don't see what's substantial enough to add an extra descriptor that's never used in infoboxes. And the fixation on including it in the infobox confuses me, there's no article for radical left politics either, and by definition that is included under "left-wing". I'd be willing to add "far-left" alongside it "Left-wing to far-left[A]" (retaining the footnote to add extra context), as it seems a consensus is building in favour of that, I just oppose removing left-wing entirely, as that's excluding sources that don't support the far-left label. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 10:46, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
- +1 for me too.
- left wing to far left should be added Venis067067067 (talk) 10:48, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
- Ok, that's good to me too. To address your comment, the article exists in 7 languages, but I still don't see how that's an issue: we don't link to it. As for the inclusion of simply left-wing, you haven't been able to find a recent source that classifies it as such. Hplotter (talk) 16:58, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
- I don't see what's substantial enough to add an extra descriptor that's never used in infoboxes. And the fixation on including it in the infobox confuses me, there's no article for radical left politics either, and by definition that is included under "left-wing". I'd be willing to add "far-left" alongside it "Left-wing to far-left[A]" (retaining the footnote to add extra context), as it seems a consensus is building in favour of that, I just oppose removing left-wing entirely, as that's excluding sources that don't support the far-left label. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 10:46, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
- "sources have changed their denomination" (from left to far or radical (which was already the case before the classification by the Conseil d'Etat) left): that's the explanation. Hplotter (talk) 10:33, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
- See WP:NOVOTE, and no you have not explained how stylevar is not broken, you've merely stated that there's "substantial reason" without elaboration. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 09:55, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
- I have no objections to radical left being in the footnote and the article's main text, but including it in the position parameter breaks stylevar. Political party infoboxes never include extra descriptors in the position param, it clutters the infobox and also goes against WP:IBP,
- But as I said, you're even refusing to mention "radical" in the infobox (let alone far let) Hplotter (talk) 13:17, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
- Hard-left and radical left are not synonymous with "far-left", especially in French politics. Radical left is explicitly separate from the far-left and the label used by the MoI. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 10:08, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
- Among your recent sources, only sud-ouest classifies it other than hard or radical left by calling "le reste de la gauche", but it does not means that it is simply left wing, as far left is still part of the left to my understanding. Hplotter (talk) 09:34, 7 March 2026 (UTC)
- But you even removed the "radical" in the infobox citing MOS:VAR while we are in the case
- +1 Hplotter (talk) 09:46, 8 March 2026 (UTC)
- I have to agree that opposition to describing LFI as far-left by now starts to look more rooted in WP:IDONTLIKEIT than any policy-based argument. We are talking about a party that actively supported Castro in Cuba, Chavez and Maduro in Venezuela, Putin in Russia, Assad in Syria, and which the highest administrative court has officially categorized as "far-left". From a factual point of view, the matter seems straightforward. Jeppiz (talk) 15:43, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- What sources are you looking for? We have plenty of reliable sources reporting that both Ministry of the Interior and the Conseil d'État have changed their previous description from "left-wing" to "far-left" so that is not in doubt. As for why to exclude the previous "left-wing", the simple answer is that when the categorization changes, as it has done for LFI in the last month, Wikipedia should reflect that. That is how Wikipedia works. Jeppiz (talk) 15:25, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
- Nobody as of yet has provided non WP:NEWSORG sources that support the label, nor has anybody shown any viable reason to exclude the existing "left-wing" label. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 14:59, 6 March 2026 (UTC)
There seems to be a clear consensus (all users but one) to use far-left. Jeppiz (talk) 16:02, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
- @Hplotter and GlowstoneUnknown: I'm really sorry for the delay, I've been quite busy in the past two weeks. I've seen that there seems to be a consensus on "left to far-left", which I also believe that it probably reflects the consensus among sources, but anyway, I've started a source review that you can find below. Anyone is welcome to contribute, it will take a while...--Friniate ✉ 16:37, 15 March 2026 (UTC)
- I think “radical left to far left” would be a more apt description, as none of the recent sources that I've read use simply left, and as the intro said, scholars use “radical” while the Conseil d'Etat use “far left”. Hplotter (talk) 12:42, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
- I'm going to give an informed opinion only after having done the source review, but I think it's worth noting that the Conseil d'Etat checks only if the classification made by the government is not "blatantly wrong" (see here). So, I don't think that we can speak of a classification of the Conseil d'Etat (which would be a primary source anyway), but that it should be defined more correctly as a definition given by the French Government that the Conseil d'Etat didn't consider blatantly wrong. --Friniate ✉ 20:03, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
- The decision of the conseiller d'état isn't a primary source once it has been reported by newspapers. You're right about the not blantantly wrong character of the response, but a weakly substantive response remains a substantive response. Hplotter (talk) 08:43, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
- No sorry, but a primary source remains a primary source even if it's reported by secondary sources such as newspapers. The newspapers prove the notability of the primary source, and justify its inclusion (with attribution) in the body of the article, but they don't change its nature. Then of course it can happen that secondary sources agree with the primary source, and in this case we should take them into account, but that must be proven (which is what I'm trying to do with the source review). --Friniate ✉ 10:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
- The decision of the conseiller d'état isn't a primary source once it has been reported by newspapers. You're right about the not blantantly wrong character of the response, but a weakly substantive response remains a substantive response. Hplotter (talk) 08:43, 19 March 2026 (UTC)
- I'm going to give an informed opinion only after having done the source review, but I think it's worth noting that the Conseil d'Etat checks only if the classification made by the government is not "blatantly wrong" (see here). So, I don't think that we can speak of a classification of the Conseil d'Etat (which would be a primary source anyway), but that it should be defined more correctly as a definition given by the French Government that the Conseil d'Etat didn't consider blatantly wrong. --Friniate ✉ 20:03, 18 March 2026 (UTC)
- I think “radical left to far left” would be a more apt description, as none of the recent sources that I've read use simply left, and as the intro said, scholars use “radical” while the Conseil d'Etat use “far left”. Hplotter (talk) 12:42, 16 March 2026 (UTC)
Hplotter, have a look at the numerous sources Google Scholar brings up for left-wing (including 4 from 2025). There are plenty others listed there too within the last 5/6 years that call the party left-wing. Here are multiple other sources that describe the party as simply left-wing:
- https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/sep/10/france-block-everything-protests-macron-lecornu-europe-live-news-updates
- https://time.com/7323462/french-prime-minister-sebastien-lecornu-resigns/
- https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20260210-france-epstein-inquiry-macron-says-scandal-mainly-concerns-usa
- https://www.lemonde.fr/en/politics/article/2022/07/01/left-wing-lfi-seizes-presidency-of-finance-committee-in-french-assemblee_5988678_5.html
- https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2026/02/21/macron-urges-calm-ahead-of-march-for-slain-far-right-activist_6750718_7.html
If your edit summary was referring to only what sources of the last few weeks or months say, that would be WP:RECENTISM. Helper201 (talk) 09:28, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
- Please take into account that I'm not finished with the source review (in fact, I haven't even finished to add the sources linked from this talk page and I still haven't started to look for new sources). Anyone who wants to help is welcome, I'd ask for the courtesy to wait to edit the article until the review is reasonably finished. --Friniate ✉ 14:56, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
- (I was mainly writing to @Hplotter) --Friniate ✉ 14:57, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
- Your sources from G. scholar don't tell what you think they do. You have to look for the ratio numbers of both classification, because of course a major party will have some citations for either of these claims.
- https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=radical+left+La+France+Insoumise (3,7k)
- https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=left-wing+La+France+Insoumise (2k)
- It has nearly the double.
- Compare this with a party that *is* far-right:
- https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=far-right+rassemblement+national (6k)
- https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=right-wing+rassemblement+national (9k) Hplotter (talk) 16:28, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
- While WP:HITS generally applies to notability I think it is applicable here too. Just because a lot of hits for one thing or another can come back from a search result isn't the be-all-and-end-all. I'm not saying that "radical" or "far-left" has no place within the article. What I'm saying is we have plenty of reliable sourcing - including from recent years - for left-wing, including from both scholarly sources and reliable and notable news publications (including specifically French ones). Certainly enough to where omitting "left-wing" from the infobox and lead would be a mischaracterisation and place undue emphasis on only "radical" or "far-left". Just because one can be cited more than another doesn't mean omission of the lesser when it can still be plenty well sourced by reputable sources, both journalistic and academic. Helper201 (talk) 14:09, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
- You are the one first discussing WP:HITS, I'm just battling on your ground.
(..) we have plenty of reliable sourcing - including from recent years - for left-wing, including from both scholarly sources and reliable and notable news publications (including specifically French ones). Certainly enough to where omitting "left-wing" from the infobox and lead would be a mischaracterisation and place undue emphasis on only "radical" or "far-left".
- No, for the same reason you won't see right-wing as the position of the RN, even though more sources qualify it as such. Hplotter (talk) 15:15, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
- I wasn't referring to the raw total number of sources that can be found when I referenced Google Scholar. I was showing that recent, reliable scholarly sources are still calling the party left-wing and to save listing every single one I left the Google Scholar link. This was because you were saying sources are no longer referring to the party as simply left-wing. You were the one stating how many results each search term accumulated in brackets. Helper201 (talk) 02:46, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
- @Hplotter Radical left and far-left are different concepts though... With your line of reasoning we should write only "radical left" in the infobox, leaving aside both left-wing and far-left. --Friniate ✉ 20:57, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
- (anyway I think that each source should be analyzed one by one, numbers from google scholar are too impredictable...) --Friniate ✉ 20:58, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
- Reread the title of the section you've written in. Hplotter (talk) 14:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
- @Hplotter Radical left and far-left are different concepts though... With your line of reasoning we should write only "radical left" in the infobox, leaving aside both left-wing and far-left. --Friniate ✉ 20:57, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
- I wasn't referring to the raw total number of sources that can be found when I referenced Google Scholar. I was showing that recent, reliable scholarly sources are still calling the party left-wing and to save listing every single one I left the Google Scholar link. This was because you were saying sources are no longer referring to the party as simply left-wing. You were the one stating how many results each search term accumulated in brackets. Helper201 (talk) 02:46, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
- While WP:HITS generally applies to notability I think it is applicable here too. Just because a lot of hits for one thing or another can come back from a search result isn't the be-all-and-end-all. I'm not saying that "radical" or "far-left" has no place within the article. What I'm saying is we have plenty of reliable sourcing - including from recent years - for left-wing, including from both scholarly sources and reliable and notable news publications (including specifically French ones). Certainly enough to where omitting "left-wing" from the infobox and lead would be a mischaracterisation and place undue emphasis on only "radical" or "far-left". Just because one can be cited more than another doesn't mean omission of the lesser when it can still be plenty well sourced by reputable sources, both journalistic and academic. Helper201 (talk) 14:09, 23 March 2026 (UTC)
- Comment on timeline I would pay little to no attention to any sources prior to 2023. LFI has been shifting its position quite drastically to the left in recent years, to the extent that the party these days hold positions its own leaders used to condemn. The situation is very similar (in lots of ways) to the Republican party in the US, which also has been shifting in a much more extreme direction under the influence of a charismatic populist leader, just like LFI. Jeppiz (talk) 16:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC)
- @Jeppiz LFI has been led by Mélenchon since its foundation though... It could even be argued that between 2022 and 2024 it was more moderate than before (and after), since it entered into coalitions with the Socialist Party... Until now I've found only one author (Boulouque) arguing that there has been a shift in 2025. --Friniate ✉ 10:05, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
- Yes, I know LFI has been led by Mélenchon since the start. And as I am sure you know, there are lots of meme videos showing "arguments" between the younger Mélenchon and the older, as he has become increasingly more totalitarian and extreme. Jeppiz (talk) 17:02, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
- Memes aren't an encyclopædic way to determine if a political party has become more extreme and thus to ignore certain reliable sources that argue to the contrary. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 23:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
- On this issue, I've even found a paper that in 2025 claimed that LFI abandoned the far-left with its "populist turn" in 2017. --Friniate ✉ 16:21, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
- I’m not sure what’s worse: cherrypicking a source, disregarding the consensus among scholar sources, disregarding the decision of the Conseil d’ État or disregarding the Wikipedia consensus. Hplotter (talk) 09:04, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
- What? I'm single-handendly analyzing dozens of academical sources and you're accusing me of disregarding consensus among scholar sources??? Seriously??? What's even funnier is that I haven't even expressed an opinion yet, but somehow you're already preemptively attacking me...
- I can't really see a consensus here, but more importantly, we are not voting, we should look at sources and then express our opinion. That's why I think that expressing opinions before doing a thorough source review is totally useless. But if you think that bringing sources to the discussion is "cherry picking" because we should blindly follow the categorization of the French Ministry of Interior, then I don't think that there's any ground for discussion. The closing admin will decide if WP:BESTSOURCES (In principle, all articles should be based on reliable, independent, secondary published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.) will apply to this article too or not... --Friniate ✉ 09:21, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
- I wrote cherry-picked because your source in your parent comment is, I'm not commenting your other sources elsewhere. I didn't say (nor think) we should blindly follow the categorization of the Conseil d’État (not only the Ministry of Interior btw), but it is an authority on the matter of political positions, so its opinion should weight on the matter, and weight more than a journalist's one. I already did a source review, which while not as thorough and rigorous as yours, is still existent, so we can have opinions on the matter. I did not want to jump to conclusion regarding your motivation(s), sorry if this came across as such. Hplotter (talk) 14:58, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
- @Hplotter I literally brought up the only two sources commenting on a change of LFI's position that I had found, one (Boulouque) states that there has been a movement towards the far-left since 2025, the other (Lucidi) states that there has been a movement away from the far-left in 2017, could you please explain where is the cherry-picking?
- You did a source review that showed that "radical left" is the most used label for LFI's position. This is a fact that is very clear also from the temporary results of mine. What remains contentious is the inclusion of "left-wing" and "far-left" (or even "extreme left"). My impression (but I still have to start to review the usage among NEWSORGs, until now I have only collected the links from previous RFCs) is that they are both used especially among NEWSORGs (with a comparable usage), whereas among scholarly sources they are very scarcely used and when they are used, they appear as passing comments. --Friniate ✉ 15:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
- I missed your comment on Boulouque, sorry. Hplotter (talk) 15:24, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
- I wrote cherry-picked because your source in your parent comment is, I'm not commenting your other sources elsewhere. I didn't say (nor think) we should blindly follow the categorization of the Conseil d’État (not only the Ministry of Interior btw), but it is an authority on the matter of political positions, so its opinion should weight on the matter, and weight more than a journalist's one. I already did a source review, which while not as thorough and rigorous as yours, is still existent, so we can have opinions on the matter. I did not want to jump to conclusion regarding your motivation(s), sorry if this came across as such. Hplotter (talk) 14:58, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
- I’m not sure what’s worse: cherrypicking a source, disregarding the consensus among scholar sources, disregarding the decision of the Conseil d’ État or disregarding the Wikipedia consensus. Hplotter (talk) 09:04, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
- On this issue, I've even found a paper that in 2025 claimed that LFI abandoned the far-left with its "populist turn" in 2017. --Friniate ✉ 16:21, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
- Memes aren't an encyclopædic way to determine if a political party has become more extreme and thus to ignore certain reliable sources that argue to the contrary. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 23:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
- Yes, I know LFI has been led by Mélenchon since the start. And as I am sure you know, there are lots of meme videos showing "arguments" between the younger Mélenchon and the older, as he has become increasingly more totalitarian and extreme. Jeppiz (talk) 17:02, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
- @Jeppiz LFI has been led by Mélenchon since its foundation though... It could even be argued that between 2022 and 2024 it was more moderate than before (and after), since it entered into coalitions with the Socialist Party... Until now I've found only one author (Boulouque) arguing that there has been a shift in 2025. --Friniate ✉ 10:05, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
- Ok, I don't know how many people will see this comment, since the discussion has already clearly ended, but I've finally ended the source review (I'm sorry for the delay, but these things take time if well done). You can see the results in the synthesis below. Of course there are still sources that I haven't checked, but I think that the method that I used (I've looked at the first 10 pages of google scholar of the articles published between 2025 and 2026, and then I looked for all the other articles that they were citing) ensures that the most important and influential ones have been included. I think that it's pretty clear that the most used label for LFI among academic sources is "radical left". The second one is "left-wing populism", which is an ideology though and not a political position (I've included it only for transparency). Far-left is slightly more used than simply "left-wing", but not substantially.
- Among non-scholarly sources, "Radical left", "left-wing" and "extreme-left" are more or less all equally used ("extreme left" only by sources in French though).
- Among newsorgs the most used labels are "radical left", "hard left" and "far-left", although these are all passing comments and therefore they are not really relevant.
- So, ideally I'd propose to use "radical left" alone. Unfortunately we don't even have an article on this meaning (Radical left is a disambiguation page), and I don't think it's ideal to use labels in wikivoice that we don't have even defined in an article. So, until we won't have one, I think that the present situation ("left to far left") is a good intermediate solution.--Friniate ✉ 15:08, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
I just noticed that this discussion took place (thanks for popping out on my watchlist), so I'll give my 2c. A consensus via the RfC option does not count votes, but arguments. Second, options D, E, and F are unsourced and WP:OR (read my essay on this long-standing problem), therefore they are invalid. Third, instead of running RfC's like this one, editors should focus on actually adding substantial content to the article. In this case, it would mean adding content to La France Insoumise#Ideology: 1) why do sources describe LFI as left-wing and why do they describe it as far-left 2) is LFI a truly far-left party 3) why is LFI a radical left party 4) what does it mean to be left-wing, far-left, or radical left party. Having well-explained sections about the party's ideology and political positions is much much much better than having a pointless discussion about an infobox parameter, that, actually, would not even require a RfC if the Ideology section was to be expanded. That's it from me. Also, thanks Friniate for the source review. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 15:27, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
- I fully agree on the fact that using the "to" is OR. A better solution in presence of contrasting political positions among RS would be a slash IMHO (so left[1][2]/far-left [3][4]). --Friniate ✉ 15:41, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
- Didn't think of that, but that sounds like a good alternative to me. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 15:43, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
Source review
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Synthesis
edit| Label | Passing comments | Sources not about LFI's political position[1] | Sources about a political family[2] | Databases[3] | Sources on topic | Total | Tot. excl. pass. comm. | Tot. on topic + datab. | Tot. on topic | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Books | Articles | Books | Articles | Books | Articles | Articles | Books | Articles | |||||
| Left-wing | 2[4] | 4[5] | 1[6] | 1[7] | 1[8] | 9 | 3 | 2 | 2 | ||||
| Left-wing populist[9] | 1[10] | 1[11] | 3[12] | 3[13] | 1[14] | 4[15] | 11[16] | 25 | 23 | 17 | 16 | ||
| Radical left | 3[17] | 11[18] | 3[19] | 3[20] | 7[21] | 12[22] | 1[23] | 8[24] | 6[25] | 54 | 40 | 15 | 14 |
| Multiple labels[26] | 2[27] | 2[28] | 2[29] | 2[30] | 8 | 4 | - | - | |||||
| Far-left | 1[31] | 6[32] | 1[33] | 2[34] | 2[35] | 1[36] | 13 | 6 | 1 | - | |||
| Extreme left | 1[37] | 1[38] | 2 | 1 | - | - | |||||||
| Survey | Num. of experts | Year | Score[39] |
|---|---|---|---|
| Populism and political parties expert survey | 9 | 2023 | 0.5 |
| Chapel Hill | 11 | 2024 | 0.8 |
| Label | Passing comments | Sources not about LFI's political position[40] | Sources about a political family[41] | Databases[42] | Sources on topic | Total | Tot. excl. pass. comm. | Tot. on topic + datab. | Tot. on topic | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| By scholars | Not by scholars | By scholars | By scholars | Not by scholars | Not by scholars | By scholars | Not by scholars | |||||
| Left-wing | 1[43] | 1[44] | 1[45] | 1[46] | 3[47] | 7 | 6 | 4 | 3 | |||
| Left-wing populist[48] | 1[49] | 4[50] | 4[51] | 1[52] | 10 | 9 | 5 | 5 | ||||
| Radical left | 1[53] | 2[54] | 2[55] | 1[56] | 1[57] | 7 | 6 | 2 | 2 | |||
| Multiple labels[58] | 1[59] | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||||||
| Far-left | 1[60] | 1 | - | - | - | |||||||
| Extreme left | 1[61] | 3 in favour[62], 4 against[63] | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | ||||||
| Label | Newsorg[64] |
|---|---|
| Left | Le Monde (2), France 24 (2), BBC (4), Euractiv (1), Sky News (2), Al Jazeera (22), Euronews (2), NYT (1), The Independent (1) |
| Radical left | Le Monde (20), BBC (6), Libération (10), Euractiv (6), Al-Jazeera (1), Green Left (1) |
| Hard left | Le Monde (1), Le Figaro (1), France 24 (7), BBC (2), Sky News (4), Al-Jazeera (11), Euronews (5) |
| Far-left | Le Monde (2), France 24 (1), BBC (8), Financial Times (5), Euractiv (2), Sky News (4), Al-Jazeera (19), Euronews (4), NYT (6) |
| Extreme left | Le Figaro (2), Le Nouvel Économiste (1), Libération (1) |
| Multiple labels | Euractiv (3), BBC (2), France 24 (1) |
References
- ↑ Sources that whilst talking lengthy about LFI deal with its political position only in passing
- ↑ Sources that whilst talking about for ex. the Radical left in Europe include LFI in passing with a simple mention
- ↑ Sources whose main goal is to provide a classification of different features of a number of parties. These sources do not specifically discuss LFI's political position, but it's among the studied features
- ↑ Chopin and Sandri 2019, Palombarin and Amable 2021
- ↑ Chabal and Behrent 2024, Mondon 2025, Cossu and Froio 2025, Hajjat 2025
- ↑ Serres 2026
- ↑ Borriello and Jäger 2023
- ↑ Tiberj 2017
- ↑ In cases where there is a multiple label, for ex. "left-wing populist" as an ideology and "radical left" as political position, the source is counted under the political position. The sources listed in this row use only the "left-wing populist" label.
- ↑ Gerbaudo 2019
- ↑ Ietter 2025
- ↑ Mudde 2019, Muffitt 2020, Bugarič 2022
- ↑ Katsambekis 2020, Venizelos and Stavrakakis 2022, Yates 2024
- ↑ Zulianello 2019
- ↑ Birnbaum 2017, Marlière 2019, Agustín 2019, Padoan 2020
- ↑ Ivaldi 2018, Chazel and Dain 2021, Olivier 2021 (not peer-reviewed), Rigg 2022, Gonthier 2022, Cervera-Marzal 2023, Gaudino 2024, Lucidi 2025, Saalfeld 2025, Laflamme 2025, Padoan 2025, Fu 2025
- ↑ Rouban 2022, Cautrès and Rouban 2025, Gonthier 2025
- ↑ Ivaldi 2018, Treib 2020, Kuhn 2022, Hewlett and Kuhn 2022, Raymond 2022, Serisier 2022, Tarragoni 2022, Copello 2025, Lorimer et al. 2025, Lecomte and Bloquet 2025, Fernandez Garcia et al. 2025
- ↑ Cautrès 2017, Evans and Ivaldi 2017, Guglielmo 2021
- ↑ Ivaldi 2022, de Barrios and Aiolfi 2025, Gaudino 2025
- ↑ Escalona 2017, Seddone and Navarro 2019, Ramiro 2019, Katsambekis and Kioupkolis 2019, March and Dunphy 2020, Charalambous 2022, Gomez and Ramiro 2023
- ↑ Charalambous 2020, Delwit 2021, Snegovaya 2021, Lourenço 2021, Bolet 2022, Pytlas 2024, Wagner 2024, Wondreys et al 2024, Holesch et al 2024, Mazzolini 2025, Herman et al. 2025, Wondreys and March 2026
- ↑ Zaslove et al. 2025
- ↑ Ivaldi 2018, Damiani 2018, Chiocchetti 2019, Shields 2019, Cervera-Marzal 2021, Escalona 2023, Chazel 2023, Chazel 2026
- ↑ Soare and Stambazzi 2017, Taggart and Pirro 2021, Chloé et al. 2021, Bonansinga 2022, Chazel and Dain 2023, Dar 2024
- ↑ Sources using both "far-left" and "radical left" or both "radical left" and "extreme left", or both "hard left" and "radical left"
- ↑ Mayer and Rozenberg 2021, Halikiopoulou and Mayer 2025
- ↑ Knapp 2022, Lorimer and Herman 2023
- ↑ Tarragoni 2019, Belhadi 2025
- ↑ Baloge and Hubé 2022, Bourdin and Torre 2022
- ↑ Fraisier et al. 2018 (not a book, but it wasn't peer-reviewed)
- ↑ Gil 2018, Durovic 2019, Durovic 2022, Chabal et al. 2023, Bailly et al. 2024, Figeac et al. 2025
- ↑ Lachat 2025
- ↑ Figeac et al. 2020, Johansson-Nogués 2026
- ↑ Fagerholm 2024 (2)
- ↑ Roodujin et al 2023
- ↑ Elgie 2017
- ↑ Jakubiak 2025
- ↑ Score on a left-right scale where 0 is extreme left and 10 is extreme right
- ↑ Sources that whilst talking lengthy about LFI deal with its political position only in passing
- ↑ Sources that whilst talking about for ex. the Radical left in Europe include LFI in passing with a simple mention
- ↑ Sources whose main goal is to provide a classification of different features of a number of parties. These sources do not specifically discuss LFI's political position, but it's among the studied features
- ↑ Smith 2022
- ↑ Marlière 2025
- ↑ Reeve 2025
- ↑ Europe elects
- ↑ Dubuisson and Stuppia 2024, Dubuisson 2024, Candar 2026
- ↑ In cases where there is a multiple label, for ex. "left-wing populist" as an ideology and "radical left" as political position, the source is counted under the political position. The sources listed in this row use only the "left-wing populist" label.
- ↑ Devlin and Mordecai 2019
- ↑ Fassin 2017, Jäger 2019 (2), Chryssogelos 2021
- ↑ Castaño 2018, de Barros 2021 and 2022, Borriello and Fassin 2022
- ↑ Poulet 2019
- ↑ Melchior and Muller 2019
- ↑ Cervera-Mazal 2020, Todd 2025
- ↑ Bortun 2024, Wagner 2024
- ↑ Rousseiller 2026
- ↑ Favier 2024
- ↑ Sources using both "far-left" and "radical left" or both "radical left" and "extreme left", or both "hard left" and "radical left"
- ↑ Boulouque 2026
- ↑ Aktürk 2019
- ↑ Algan et al. 2025
- ↑ Reynié 2017, Buton 2023, Boulouque 2026
- ↑ Lefebvre 2022, Dubuisson and Cosseron 2024, Cervera-Mazal 2026, Sawicki 2026
- ↑ In bold the label most used by each publication
"Mélenchon advocated for French to stop being the official language of the country."
editDoes anyone have a source that actually quotes Melenchon on this? I would find this very surprising. The article cited only really mentions it in passing without actually citing anything, so it's very hard to know what it is referring to. ~2026-31404-27 (talk) 22:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
- More generally speaking I think that these edits by @G13 vs G14 are skewed against the party. There was even a blatant falsification (later fixed) of at least one source ("Nous n’approuvons pas la violence", so "we don't approve violence" was changed into "condones violence", so the exact opposite).
- Tablet Magazine is an American conservative magazine, I don't think that it's particularly reliable on these issues. --Friniate ✉ 10:21, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
- According to the most recent discussion on RSN, majority of users have concluded that Tablet Magazine is generally reliable: . There is no reason to treat its claims with suspicion.
- I apologize for "Mélenchon added that he condones violence", it was a grammatical error. I accidentally typed the wrong word and didn't notice because it looked similar. G13 vs G14 (talk) 13:35, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
- Well, passing comments are generally never particularly reliable per WP:CONTEXTMATTERS. Secondly, I don't think that an American magazine is particularly reliable about a French party.
- On this specific issue, what Mélenchon did was only proposing to change the name of the language underlining the fact that it is shared also by other countries besides France. --Friniate ✉ 14:08, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
- My issue with the citation is that it doesn't refer to anything specific. I have been trying to look for a specific position and besides what has been mentioned about changing the name of the language I just cannot find anything. I think it is highly suspicious because Melenchon has publicly taken position against the ratification of the European Charter on Minority languages, for example. If he really had taken position against French being the official language, there should be traces of it.
- While the article cited is slanted negatively against LFI, the way it is phrased in the article is factual and would be totally acceptable if it didn't risk completely misrepresenting both Melenchon and LFI's position... (In fact, it seems to be the exact opposite of their position) ~2026-31404-27 (talk) 16:23, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
- After searching the internet for evidence that Mélenchon is against French being the official language, I found nothing. It seems like Tablet Magazine was mistaken.
- I corrected the sentence, now it looks like this:
Mélenchon advocated that French should become a "common language" and be renamed, becoming Creole language. He argued that French had spread to other countries as a result of colonialism and was "no longer the exclusive property of the French nation"
. G13 vs G14 (talk) 18:19, 26 May 2026 (UTC)- @G13 vs G14 But is it a policy of LFI? I doubt it... From the video that I've seen it was just an intellectual remark/suggestion by Mélenchon, also in the source that you used nothing says that it's an official LFI's policy. --Friniate ✉ 10:40, 27 May 2026 (UTC)
- The concept of creolisation has been a somewhat important part of LFI's platform (although they usually refer to it as "nouvelle France"). I think it is relevant to the article. Here's a exemple of Bompart using the term, so it isn't only Melenchon. I am not sure whether the proposal to rename French has ever been mentioned by other LFI party figures though. ~2026-31404-27 (talk) 14:59, 27 May 2026 (UTC)
- The concept of créolisation is definitely important for LFI, what I'm objecting to is mainly this method of describing a party's ideology assembling various declarations of the party leader. I think that a correct approach instead would be using the many academic sources covering the matter. --Friniate ✉ 15:25, 27 May 2026 (UTC)
- The concept of creolisation has been a somewhat important part of LFI's platform (although they usually refer to it as "nouvelle France"). I think it is relevant to the article. Here's a exemple of Bompart using the term, so it isn't only Melenchon. I am not sure whether the proposal to rename French has ever been mentioned by other LFI party figures though. ~2026-31404-27 (talk) 14:59, 27 May 2026 (UTC)
- @G13 vs G14 But is it a policy of LFI? I doubt it... From the video that I've seen it was just an intellectual remark/suggestion by Mélenchon, also in the source that you used nothing says that it's an official LFI's policy. --Friniate ✉ 10:40, 27 May 2026 (UTC)
