Talk:Red velvet cake

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Rjjiii talk 06:16, 21 February 2025 (UTC)

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A four-layer slice of red velvet cake

• ... that Waldorf-Astoria and Eaton's both claim to have invented the red velvet cake? Source: Galarza, G. Daniela (June 11, 2021). "Red Velvet Cake is 'the Color of Joy.' Here's How It Rose into America's Dessert Canon". The Washington Post. Archived from the original on March 8, 2023. Retrieved February 4, 2025.
  • ALT1: ... that the red velvet cake regained its popularity due to its appearance in the Steel Magnolias film? Source: Severson, Kim (May 12, 2014). "Red Velvet Cake: A Classic, Not a Gimmick". The New York Times. Archived from the original on March 26, 2019. Retrieved February 4, 2025., Fabricant, Florence (February 14, 2007). "So Naughty, So Nice". The New York Times. Archived from the original on August 15, 2024. Retrieved February 3, 2025.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/1932 Winter Olympics medal table

Improved to Good Article status by Vacant0 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 15 past nominations.

Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 11:44, 8 February 2025 (UTC).

• Mmm, I want. I suggest ALT2: ... that red velvet cake has been described as "the Dolly Parton of cakes"? Also, is there a reason you haven't added the image to the nom?--Launchballer 18:07, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

+1 to the Dolly Parton hook lol...Valereee (talk) 18:48, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

• I've forgot to add it. Should be good now! Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 10:45, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
• ALT3 ... that red velvet cake became less popular in the 1970s after red dye #2 was linked to cancer, but regained popularity after it was featured in 1989's Steel Magnolias? Valereee (talk) 16:44, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Promoted to GA. Long enough, sourced and neutral. QPQ done. Earwig shows no immediate issues except for similar wording of X year film name, which I usually fix by putting the year in parentheses but I have recently stopped doing because some editors have expressed displeasure with that format, so I'm not going to fix it and I'll just leave it as is. I did perform a series of copyedits for wording and to eliminate repetition, which you are free to revert. There is an issue of consistency in referring to Red Dye #2 or red dye #2 which I tried to fix, but presents issues for some of the hooks. Figure out how you want to do this and change it accordingly. My take is that red dye is fine, but if you add the number, you're typically supposed to refer to the name of the dye in that form as a proper noun, but there's some dispute and confusion abut this since the name of FD&C color additives may be presented in either format, but it's not clear how Wikipedia does it. You had it in both, which is why I made the change. Figure out how you want to do it and make the change to the article and the hook. I approve all hooks. Viriditas (talk) 00:03, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

NYT coverage of popularity in NYC

I've tried to explained my edits via the edit summaries, but happy to discuss further! Valereee (talk) 16:55, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Red velvet cake can be found on many menus in many cities. That the NYT says so about New York doesn't mean it makes sense for Wikipedia to imply that New York stands out in this regard. It's like writing in the Coffee article, "Coffee is served after dinner in many New York restaurants", as though New York were unusual in that respect. Largoplazo (talk) 17:18, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Exactly, thanks for stating it so clearly. Valereee (talk) 18:44, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Valentine's Day

I think there should be some mention about the cake's recent association with Valentine's Day. The recent edits removed all mentions of Valentine's Day other than the category. While the association with Christmas is far older (dating back to the late 20th century, vs. the early 2010s for Valentine's Day), I think there should be some mention. I understand the Christmas association is more based on tradition, while the Valentine's Day association was more driven by marketing. ANDROS¹³³⁷_TALK 17:04, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Is there a source? Valereee (talk) 17:47, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Looking through search results, I see an awful lot of recipes and ads individually connecting red velvet cake with Valentines Day. What I haven't found yet is a reliable source observing that this is a commonly made association. If that exists then, yes, it should be covered. Otherwise, it's WP:OR. Largoplazo (talk) 17:48, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

I think this issue is that this association is fairly recent and is more marketing-driven, vs. the more traditional association with Christmas that has existed since the late 20th century. In recent years I have seen more red velvet products during Valentine's Day than during the traditional Christmas holiday season, but as I said, this was largely driven in recent years by marketing and has no historic connection with Valentine's Day. ANDROS¹³³⁷_TALK 18:18, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

I too wasn't able to find any mentions of this connection in RS. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 19:32, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

Not sure about Valentines. I did find some information on seasonal trends via Mintel:

• "The nostalgic and emotional factor towards seasonal flavors can often outweigh the [consumer's concerns about] artificial components. In many fall/winter baked goods and beverages, classic desserts become a flavor in itself, such as red velvet cake and crème brulee." & "types of desserts, such as red velvet cake and crème brulee, [were] serving as inspiration for seasonal beverages" - Seasonal Dining Trends - US - January 2017
• "To celebrate Valentine’s Day, Hostess Brands introduced limited-time-only red velvet varieties of its cupcakes and Chocodile Twinkies. Both products are reflective of a general trend of incorporating red velvet flavor into an assortment of foods including snacks, candy, and beverages." & "The indulgent and nostalgic nature of red velvet flavor may appeal to consumers, especially if products featuring the flavor are offered for only a limited time." - Hostess joins the red velvet craze - 27th February 2015
• "Red velvet makes a comeback - Demand for comfort foods revived interest in red velvet cake" - Prepared Cakes and Pies - US - June 2011

May be useful, although may require attribution. Mintel is one of the two pretty credible market research firms for reference. Rollinginhisgrave (talk | contributions) 08:36, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

Red Velvet Cookie inspiration?

In Cookie Run: Kingdom, there is a cookie named Red Velvet Cookie. Maybe someone need to add this information. Brawler Hunter (Caçador de Brawlers) (talk) 19:23, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Probably not, just as under Hamburger we don't list every popular culture reference to hamburgers. It doesn't really tell us anything about red velvet cake. Largoplazo (talk) 19:27, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Ok. I just said it because i'm a fan of CRK. But that's ok. Brawler Hunter (Caçador de Brawlers) (talk) 19:29, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Valentine's Day, revisited

We need to add a mention of Valentine's Day to the article. I understand that the Valentine's Day association is far more recent than its association with Christmas (largely driven by marketing instead of tradition), but in recent years the Valentine's Day association has become the more dominant holiday association. I think we should somehow include Valentine's Day in the article in addition to Christmas (with reputable sources). ANDROS¹³³⁷_TALK 16:04, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

I've just checked again and found zero reliable sources that cover this connection. It seems like nothing has changed since the last discussion. I'm unsure how you would want someone to add "missing information" to this article when there are no reliable sources that cover this connection. This is plain WP:OR. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 16:14, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

Remember, sometimes common knowledge trumps WP:RS. More than half of recently released red velvet products in the past several years have been for Valentine's Day; Christmas doesn't even come close as far as new red velvet items released in the past several years. While this might be a US-centric thing and not historically accurate (Christmas being the traditional association, with Valentine's Day traditionally more associated with strawberry cake), there is no denying that the Valentine's Day association has been the more popular association (at least in the US) the past decade. What sources do you consider "unreliable"? Use common sense! ANDROS¹³³⁷_TALK 19:50, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

Do you have any statistics that back up your claims? Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 19:55, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

No hard data, but if you have been paying attention to many recently released red velvet desserts (cookies, ice cream, etc) at grocery stores and fast food restaurants (such as Dairy Queen), more than half of them have been during the Valentine's Day season. While this might be a US-centric thing, it is pretty obvious that the cake is associated with Valentine's Day at least in the US. ANDROS¹³³⁷_TALK 20:04, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

Remember, sometimes common knowledge trumps WP:RS. This looks like an instance of a common social media meme that starts with "Remember:" followed by something the usual viewer won't ever have heard but now makes them feel that there's a club of people with special knowledge that they've been left out of and inclines them to want to join it regardless of how valid the claims being made are. No, on Wikipedia, "common knowledge" doesn't trump a lack of reliable sources. If someone were to claim something were common knowledge, we'd need a reliable source to back up that.

Regarding your observations from "paying attention", using those as the basis for adding content to an article would be the epitome of an WP:OR violation. It's common sense that a website that consisted of a compilation of conclusions drawn by individual users based on their personal impressions from unscientifically collected data would be worthless. Largoplazo (talk) 21:12, 21 January 2026 (UTC)

I've found a source for the association and have added it to the article. I do find the old-school Wikipedian mentality of common knowledge > verifiability charming, but it obviously doesn't fly today. The talk page suggestion was welcome, although laundering the claim into the article through a template when you couldn't find a source is not cool. As to the notion that this is a particularly recent development, here is the NYT linking Valentine's and red velvet cakes as early as 1984. Rollinginhisgrave (talk | edits) 00:30, 22 January 2026 (UTC)