Talk:Freeman on the land movement

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• "Sovereign Citizen" notice, Belfast (October 2013) (geograph 5824402).jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:38, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 14 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 21:40, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

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Freeman on the land → Freeman on the land movement Consistency with Sovereign citizen movement and Redemption movement. I think it would be better if the title made it clear that this is about a movement, which is not immediately understandable by people who have never heard of the subject. Psychloppos (talk) 20:44, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

• support per nom—blindlynx 21:47, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support. Consistency in titles is important, but its also needed just from the perspective that 'freeman on the land' is not a real thing, while the movement behind the ficticious concept does exist. --WhoIs 127.0.0.1 ping/loopback 14:05, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
• Neutral - while it does seem to be how the topic is referenced in reliable sources, "movement" implies that Freemen on the land are a connected group working towards a common objective, when in reality the individuals who espouse these beliefs are "loosely connected" by having been duped by a small group of con artists selling legal fictions for profit; they're not "loosely connected" by any particular cause nor call to action, nor do they generally work together in any way. I don't oppose the change but I don't like the word. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 14:55, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

  @Ivanvector: clearly, "movement" is meant here in the loosest sense of the word. The sovereign citizen movement isn't one coherent organization, either. It's a collection of people sharing a set of beliefs, and often following the teachings of some specific leaders ("gurus"). Said leaders may or may not work together on occasions : that was the case, for example, of the original freeman of the land gurus who appeared together at seminars, which indicates some degree of cooperation between them. Psychloppos (talk) 16:11, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support. Clarity and consistency are good things.~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 15:02, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Shwcz (talk) 00:36, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Freeman on the land arguments are legally baseless."

Doesn't the claim that Freemens' arguments were legally baseless, which is made from within the very legal system they deny, turn the claim itself into somewhat of a tautology? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.187.101.213 (talk) 13:58, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

No more so than any other statement about law. Legal determinations can only be made within the legal system. They have their own ideas about what they call "law" but those have no basis in any actual legal system. It's like if a guy says "I don't agree with numbers". He's entitled to his opinion but we aren't going to call it maths. --DanielRigal (talk) 14:17, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

That analogy is garbage. Numbers are a representative expressions of the mathematical language. Prehistoric people did not use numbers but they still built complex astrological calendars like Stonehenge. The indeginous peoples of America were robbed of their land using this very tautology the first poster asserts. Native American, this is our land. European we bring this legal system. It says no deed, no owership. This European paid for this deed. It's their's now. Law is an imposition practiced by the clever, unquestioningly weak minded ie we have rules, but the rules we made up. Religious faith and the belief in the "law" are the sames shades of gray. The only difference is the law provides tangible results with the right amount of cash and the best lawyer. No need for a hope and a prayer when there are law to enacted. The world is not the way it is, it's the way people are conditioned to think it is.80.189.122.222 (talk) 22:32, 1 October 2025 (UTC)