Talk:Édith Piaf

Accent

Isn't it a bit precious to use "É" all the way through? Accents are usually omitted from capital letters in French; one can use them, but why do it here? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:36, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Here in the English Wikipedia, I think it makes sense to use the same spelling as in the French. Your question is still valid for the French article, though. (I wonder if my local library has a French paper encyclopedia?) Abu ari 08:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

The accent issue is a false problem. It is true that for quite a long time, it has been thought to be unnecessary to keep the accent on capital letters. But this comes a technical inability of the old printing machines. In handwriting, we still have to write the accents. Nowadays, with the apparition of the computer, this issue is irrelevent and we yet again have to put the accents on capital letters.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_des_majuscules_en_fran%C3%A7ais#Accentuation_des_majuscules_et_capitales

Sseb22 05:28, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Death

Where should technical errors like the date of Edith Piaf's death being reported as the 10th at the top of the page and the 11th further down in the text be reported? I have similar errors on many pages and would like to let someone know about them. User Alan S12:10, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

They shouldn't be reported but corrected (that's the beauty of Wikipedia). Where you notice a discrepancy but don't know which is the correct version, a note like the one above on the relevant Talk page will do. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 20:21, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

The use of her "official" date of death troubles me greatly. Where is the evidence that she actually died on the 10th? Why is she "officially" said to have died on the 11th, if she actually died on the 10th? Where else in Wikipedia do we provide a date of death that we know is not the correct date? If there is indeed a discrepancy between her actual, proven, date of death and some "official" date, we should use the actual date in the article and give the official date in the footnote, not the other way around. JackofOz 01:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Janet Flanner, in her column filed on Oct. 23, 1963 and reprinted in the book Paris Journal: 1944-1965, p.568, reports that Piaf's death occurred at 7:00 AM on a "recent Friday," which, according to my perpetual calendar, would have been the 11th. Flanner also reports that Jean Cocteau died at 1:00 PM on the same day from "a final heart attack, provoked by the news of her demise." The Wikipedia page on Cocteau has his death occurring on Oct 11, 1963. Terry J. Carter (talk) 01:50, 22 July 2013 (UTC):

Song

Wendy McNeill does a fabulous song (http://zed.cbc.ca/go?c=contentPage&CONTENT_ID=121650) about Edith Piaf. Kind of summarizes a lot of her life. FireWorks 20:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Dear Editors of Wikipedia

I would appreciate your sending me information about where you obtained the biographical information for Edith Piaf on the Wikipedia website.

It is my understanding that Edith Piaf's real name is actually: Edith Annette Gisson Holliday. I do not believe that the name Gassion as listed on your website and a fake website with her grave marker is accurate. Also,I do not believe that Edith Piaf was Italian as some of the surnames you have listed would imply. Further, I do not believe that Edith Piaf is related to a circus performer or a madame of a bordello.

According to Janet Flanner, Paris Journal 1944-1965, p. 569, Piaf's name was Gassion, and her grandmother ran a brothel. Flanner's statement dates to Oct 23, 1963. I can't find a Warner bio of Piaf, fake or otherwise, in WorldCat. As Piaf performed in public as a "featured

act" from 1935 until not long before her death, I don't see how anybody could credit the idea of her having been killed during WW II. If Warner did write such a book and if he did connect her to a relative with a brothel, that statement was not original with him. Terry J. Carter (talk) 02:08, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

I heard a rumor recently that Senator John Warner wrote a Fake biography about Edith Piaf since he is making money selling her recordings. I am still investigating how Senator Warner is related to Edith Piaf and how he accessed Edith Piaf's recordings to sell after 1945 when there are people that have said Edith Piaf was actually killed during WWII by the Nazis because of her Jewish heritage the fact that she was related to French and Belgian royalty. One would wonder how Senator Warner left WWII in 1945 with Edith Piaf recordings in tow if Edith Piaf lived beyond WWII.

• Paline HollidayEarpCarroll Brown

Note written 7 months later: The above fascinatingly bizarre opinion was written in January 2006. Apparently, everybody was stunned into silence by its content, since it never got any response, at least not on this page. (John Warner?!?!?) - DavidWBrooks 22:19, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

This does show why the article needs citations desperately.--76.182.88.254 04:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I post alleged 'original research' and it gets vaporized in a nano second. rem486 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.255.86.240 (talk) 21:27, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

La Vie en Rose

I recently created an article for La Vie en Rose, so any contributions from people with knowledge about Edith's signature song would be appreciated - AKeen 16:01, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Clean this article up!

It's pretty messy and unprofessional at the moment. Let's clean it up already.

Mark 23:40, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Deletion

The entirety of this article was deleted, without comment, due to alleged copyright violation a few days ago. It seems absurd to have nothing more than "a French singer" for possibly the most famous French chanteuse. I have supplied a translation, more or less bad, of the Piaf article at the French Wikipedia. But I think that some discussion would be warranted before yanking an entire article. RandomCritic 21:03, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Well, the article was not "deleted", just marked as a possible copyvio (all the previous revisions are still there and could be restored). It's not excluded (though IMHO unlikely) that the issue is the other way round: the site that I spotted has actually copied from Wikipedia. In any case I guess we had to wait a few days before rewriting the whole content, just to be sure. Please, consider that the page is still listed here:

Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2006_April_9

In any case I just followed the "canonical" procedure.

What to do about copyright violations

Believe me, I was really disappointed for my "discovery".

--Gennaro Prota 01:06, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, somebody (name not given on the history page) did delete both the article and your copyvio notice.

Not my fault. That's someone who doesn't read what he has in front of his eyes.

In any case you seem to have been mistaken.

Here you still keep some courtesy. There must have been something which made you lose your temper between writing this and the next paragraphs. But it was not me.

If you had provided a link to your asserted site in this talk page the matter could have been investigated;

Don't be offended but you seem very unfamiliar with Wikipedia procedures. Yes, I forgot to add the link as an argument to the copyvio template (because I was in a hurry and because I'm quite new here —this is my first possible-copyvio tagging), but the link is anyway here:

Wikipedia:Copyright_problems/2006_April_9

(if someone provides a link and wastes time for that, please be gentle enough to take it a look)

better yet, you could have investigated it yourself before jumping to conclusions.

I didn't draw conclusions. Rather you jumped the gun. I was investigating yesterday (sorry for not being able to do that *immediately*, boss; I'll ask my company to give me more spare time) and found that the first version which comes close to the one at

http://www.edithpiaf.com/biography.php

is revision as of 04:56, 16 November 2003

That comforted me as the site reports "©2004–present EdithPiaf.com" so it is very likely older.

As it turns out, the biography at EdithPiaf.com is an exact copy of the Wikipedia article as of August 9, 2004. And if you look at the layers of history before that, you can see that the Wikipedia article on that date was not copied and pasted from somewhere else, but the product of months and months of accumulated changes.

Yes. As I said, sorry for not working 24 hours a day here.

It is clear that EdithPiaf.com borrowed the article from Wikipedia and not the other way around. I hope that in the future you will be much more careful about making assertions of copyright violation. Many, many places use Wikipedia as a source.

Your main misunderstanding is that I made an assertion of copyright violation. I just made a report of possible copyright violation. You seem also very unfamiliar with Wikipedia policies and with Wikiquette. Please take a look at that. And remember we are all here for the same reason. No need to bite.

The point is that you, by honest mistake, replaced a good article with a copyright violation notice. The effect of your report was to make the article inaccessible by normal search. Of course it was still in the history, but that is not where one would expect to look for it. Furthermore, people are inclined to assume that copyright violation notices are not only made in good faith (which I don't question) but based on solid information. I would only ask that you refrain from making your "reports" in the future before you have solid evidence that a violation has occurred (e.g., if you yourself are the copyright holder). RandomCritic 13:31, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

RandomCritic 05:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I understand your nick now :-(
--Gennaro Prota 12:25, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

---

I don't mind if the article is reverted to the last pre-copyvio form, but I should note that there is a little information in the French article which could be incorporated; for instance, it clears up the October 10/October 11 death date question. RandomCritic 05:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Films

There's a section with films without any explanation. Did she act in them or are they about her? AxelBoldt 07:24, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I wondered this myself. I would say they are about her but I didn't check the full list (I would not exclude that some of them just feature some of her famous songs in their soundtrack). I have worked on this article but then lost interest. I have seen you did a nice work with the section titles. If you continue on this track I guess that will incentive me to join again :) —Gennaro Prota^•Talk 14:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Piaf appeared in all of them except "Edith et Marcel" which is about her. It seems that "Al diavolo la celebritá" was included erroneously, so I've deleted it. RandomCritic 20:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Probably because Marcel Cerdan appears in it. —Gennaro Prota^•Talk 20:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Vandals

someone obviously vandalized the article: From the age of three to seven she was blind, and from eight to fourteen she was deaf and suffered from severe Androgenetic alopecia.

Wathiik 07:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Early life

The blindness / deafness issue seemed to me highly unlikely, so I took a look at the versions in other Wikipedias. Her blindness seems to be well-acknowledged, although w:de reports it as having occurred from the ago of 4 through 6 only. But deafness is mentioned only in the English version, with articles in other languages specifically mentioning that she is believed to have begun singing at age of ten. I think someone with access to a reputable biographical work should further investigate the issue. 62.57.0.221 10:34, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

In fact what is true is that she suffered from a "keratinite" that caused her to be almost blind when she was young; part of the problem was cured, but anyway she remained half-blind (on one eye).

This was publicly testified on French TV today, with several people that had lived with her (notably her hair-dresser) invited to a long live TV show, showing and explaining her life, along with other guested actors and the director of the next cinema film that will come to our screens in the next few days: "La Mome", featuring lots of songs from our famous singer (and her love with the French boxer Marcel Cerdant, her two weddings after that, her loves with several French actors or singers). Although the film is oriented, it has been announced as providing only true and verified facts about her life (and those that have lived with Edith Piaf have approved the content). All those persons can testify that she was partly blind during all her life.

However she was definitely not deaf (may be she had some earing problem, or suffered from some otites). This is pure speculation and the way she could master her voice is extremely clear. What is true is the she suffered from alcoolism and drugs, and her appearance was much older than she was really in the few years before her death. And it is true that she remains as a myth that can excite lots of imagination and creativity; that's the destinate of the most famous stars: she was and remains as the French Marilyn, and her songs are still loved so much today with her original voice.

I want comment the very strange comment above, about the invention that Piaf would have died during WW2 (this is pure invention); most successes from Piaf were created after WW2; this is extremely irritating to find such stupidity here when there are much enough proofs (and millions of people that have seen her in public live shows after WW2!) that she recorded and sang most of her successes after WW2, including the greatest success "La Vie en rose" or "Mon Légionnaire". Her voice was really unique and unequalled since then (such voice can't be reproduced today, because the common French accent has evolved a lot since then, as well as the language). 86.221.35.173 16:05, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

2.9.07 I added the premiere of the film, "la mome", at the Berlin Film Festival February, 2007 in the legacy section.

Pure Idiocy

"Today she is still remembered and revered as one of the greatest singers France has ever produced. [citation needed]"

Citation needed??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.6.130.121 (talk) 23:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

Agreed. The citation is absolutely unnecessary.

"Elvis Presley is still remembered and revered as one of the greatest rock'n'roll singer" [citation needed] pole25 20:25, 24 january 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.32.75.131 (talk)

Fact or opinion?

I could say that I thought she was a singer whose reputation was enhanced by her premature death. That might not be true, but it is no more true to say that she is one of the greatest singers ever in France. However, a comment by a respected music critic saying that she was one of the greatest singers would make the statement more encyclopedic and not violate NPOV, which it seems to do now. 66.234.220.195 (talk) 06:47, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

one of france's greatest singers: citation needed?

In the section "Death and Legacy", it's written "Today she is still remembered and revered as one of the greatest singers France has ever produced.[citation needed]".

Do we really need citation for that statement? It's like saying we need citation for Shakespeare being one of the greatest playwrights. I don't think to say she is "one of the greatest" is an exaggeration (much less a statement requiring citation), though saying she is the "greatest" would certainly be. Mmm...perhaps a better concession would be to rephrase the statement? Something enough to convey that she was recognised a being big in France in her day (almost equivalent so say Madonna or Celine Dion) and is certainly a cultural icon?Pristine 12:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Whoops, I just noticed someone discussed this above. Anyhow, thoughts are still welcome.Pristine 12:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

If it's so obvious, it shouldn't be hard to find a citation for the sentence. Citations are needed on Wikipedia no matter how obvious a statement may seem. That's how it works :) Just find a quick citation and add it. That is the least of this article's problems because most of the article lacks citation of any form.--76.182.88.254 04:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not for publishing your own opinion, irregardless of how widely held it is. If you wish to make this claim, it needs to be from a reputable and authoritative source in granting such an opinion Rotovia (talk) 16:46, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

"irregardless" is not a word.69.47.221.232 (talk) 06:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Citation needed! Citation needed!

There is no argument about Piaf being one of the greatest WORLD singers (not just for France) in Wikipedia articles in languages other than English. Including Russian page, for instance. Remarkably, it is only US/UK who do not want to admit it. One more proof that people in US/UK are very ignorant towards everything which is not in English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.237.244.226 (talk) 23:16, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

There is no argument that it's not true, just that it needs to be cited. It needs to be cited in other languages' Wikipedia articles as well. People all over the world use the English Wikipedia, not just those from the US and UK.--Gloriamarie (talk) 21:25, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Here's an example of the murky waters of perceived fact and opinion...the above contributor compares Piaf to a Madonna or Celine Dion! Wow! Neither of these pop stars have been particularly good (especially Madonna, if we're talking about singers), although have had huge commercial success. One could find them "great" if one wishes, but uninformed opinion, or undeveloped taste don't count for much, and blanket statements made on their behalf wouldn't be too mature. One may also not like Piaf, and find reasons for why she is overrated, or even good; it's an opinion, but not a well informed one. Comparisons to Judy Garland, or Billie Holiday (or many another wondderful, or influential singer) would carry much more qualitative and critical weight. But alas, it all comes down to opinion, and taste. I find it hard to disagree with the statement in question however , in regards to Edith Piaf, even while I happen NOT to be a Piaf fan, and in this case, it would be foolhardy to have to proove the statement with a quote or reference. My opinion may be that I don't like her, that doesn't alter the cultural fact that she was one of the greatest French singers, and even one of the key world singers of the century. One needn't have a citation that Elvis was one of the greatest rock singers, although conversely one would be hardpressed to state as fact that he was a great singer, or even one of the greatest pop entertainers, regardless of his overwhelming long-term popularity and cultural impact. Simple comparisons, or exposure to tons of other 20th century pop entertainers proves the point fast enough. Same goes for Michael Jackson, and Madonna. That might not change a person's opinion that Elvis was the best, or the FACT that he was a great star of the ROCK era. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.236.139 (talk) 02:32, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Irrelevant factoid deleted from intro

"Edith Bunker, the mother on the TV series All in the Family, was named after her." - when I read this in the article's intro paragraph it was a true WTF moment! --Salimfadhley 08:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Edith piaf.jpg

Image:Edith piaf.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 01:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

An Image is needed for this article!!!--Burgas00 16:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Put back the ckuik.com videos

Dear editors I just got a message that my addition of ckuik.com link to videos inspired by Edith Piaf is not allowed. Since I did not do it as to promote my website - it is a service since so many video clips there are great examples of her masterpieces - please put it back and let the visitors get the full picture.

Dr. Dafni —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nadav.dafni (talk • contribs) 23:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Please do not add this website to Wikipedia articles. Wikipedia is not a mirror of links or media files. Many of the videos you are linking to various artist articles are in copyright violation. Per Wikipedia's external links policy, links to music videos on ckuik.com are neither unique nor informative, and should not be added to Wikipedia articles./ edg ☺ ★ 23:46, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Place of Death

The place of death in this article is not the same as the French Wikipedia of Edith Piaf.

Is it normal ?

And in the movie (La Môme, 2007, Olivier Dahan), it is also showed that she died in Grasse. Sseb22 05:35, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

No image?

Is there any particular reason why we have no image of Piaf? I thought we were permitted to use fair use ones for people, if the person is dead. - ^Estoy_Aquí^{(t • c • e)} 14:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

i don't know how to edit picture boxes etc... but the picture of edith's bust needs to be altered or shrunk or something because currently it is obscuring information about her songs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.101.56.216 (talk) 14:09, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Marcel Cerdan

"The great love of Piaf's life,[3] the married boxer Marcel Cerdan, died in a plane crash in October 1949, while flying from New York City to Paris to meet her"

According to the PlaneCrashInfo database (http://planecrashinfo.com/1949/1949-46.htm), the plane carrying Cerdan was en route *from Paris* *to NY*. There must be a factual error somewhere: either Piaf was in NY at the time, or Cerdan was not flying *to* her (but perhaps from her?), or the plane was indeed flying to Paris. Does anyone know, which is the case? Kostikrus (talk) 23:16, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

No, it's correct. She was performing in New York at the time. Indisciplined (talk) 12:37, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

WWII Activities

This article: http://ngm.typepad.com/pop_omnivore/2008/02/and-the-omnie-1.html seems to corroborate the idea that Piaf did work for (even if indirectly) the French resistance during the war. The information comes from her sister-in-law, Christie Laume, who I would accept as an authoritative (if perhaps biased) source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.91.171.198 (talk) 07:47, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Reference to work in films

Edith's song L'accordéoniste is referenced and used in the interpretation of Alan Bennetts History . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.6.32.115 (talk) 20:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Simone Berteaut

Has anyone any evidence that Piaf by Simone Berteaut, (Penguin 1973, ISBN 0 14 00 3669 5) is merely a fabrication? That Piaf and the author were NOT half sisters, and that Berteaut was merely one of Piaf's many hangers-on? If so, Berteaut still seems to know an awful lot of the 'legend' from the inside. Bluedawe 23:19, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism?

Some of the edits in this diff do not seem to be true. The statements are not necessarily found in the sources. Would someone please look into this? Thanks Jim1138 (talk) 09:21, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Discography

Why does the discography consist only of "compilations of Édith Piaf's songs, and not reissues of the titles released while Édith Piaf was active"? Is it not possible for someone to list the titles of the albums she actually made? 86.42.33.161 (talk) 17:30, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Named after Edith Cavell?

I am just a bit confused. The article says this:

She was named Édith after the World War I British nurse Edith Cavell, who was executed for helping French soldiers escape from German captivity.

The reference it provides is a dead link, so I can't verify. But since Piaf was born in 1908, before Cavell was executed for helping the French soldiers, I highly doubt this fact is true. From the Edith Cavell article, it seems that starting in 1907 and before 1910, Cavell was matron of a nursing school "L'École Belge d’Infirmières Diplômées on the Rue de la Culture in Brussels." Cavell only began assisting Allied soldiers in 1914.

The facts of the matter are this:

• Edith Piaf was born in 1908 in Paris.
• In 1908, Edith Cavell was the new matron of a newly established nursing school in Belgium.
• Prior to that, Cavell was either training as a nurse in London (1900-1905) or working as a governess in Belgium (< 1900)

Given the above, I find it highly doubtful that Piaf would have been named after Cavell, since Cavell's wartime heroism had not yet occurred at that time.

I have tagged the reference in the article as a dead link, so that someone might try to dig up an archived version or another reference. Mûĸĸâĸûĸâĸû _(blah?) 03:49, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

The current article gives 1915 as her birth-year. I don't know where 1908 came from. Valetude (talk) 12:23, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

According to the Crosland bio, she was named after Edith Cavell, but I haven't cross-checked this. 94.197.12.104 (talk) 17:03, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Married two or three times?

At one point the article refers to [Theo Sarapo] as Edith's third husband, but only two marriages are ever mentioned. His wikipedia article makes the same assumption. Aebcoreno (talk) 21:47, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Place of Birth--Sidewalk or Hospital

Janet Flanner, in the source I have cited two/three times already and am too rushed for time to repeat, but see above, says that Edith Piaf was born on a sidewalk and that two policemen assisted in the birth. Could it not have been possible that her mother and she were then taken to a hospital for further attention, and that a birth certificate was filled out there? That's beyond original no-no research, it's original speculation !!! but the answer to the birth dilemma might be "all of the above." Terry J. Carter (talk) 02:18, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Margaret Crosland says the sidewalk story is untrue and that she was born in a hospital- I haven't cross-checked this. 94.197.12.104 (talk) 17:03, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Death and funeral: the mystery continues

German wikipedia explains the circumstances of her death rather well. Like other wikipedias, I think we should go for the 10th as her real date of death. Today it is 50 years ago.

Both French and English wikipedia mention the claim that she did not get a Roman Catholic funeral, because the Archbishop of Paris forbade it. However, I am old enough to remember the TV news item about her funeral and the general standstill in Paris as her body was taken to Pere Lachaise. I distinctly remember the broadcaster saying a funeral service had taken place at an Orthodox church. As I could not find that on any wikipedia, I thought my memory was faulty. A bit of googling, however, proved it was not. Photo of an Orthodox Priest Performing the Funeral Rites of Edith Piaf

Since Theo Sarapo was of Greek origin, one may wonder whether he ever envisaged an RC funeral. After all, the couple married at an Orthodox church as well. Can we be sure there really was a veto by the Archbishop? Of course, Edith may have asked for an RC funeral, and after the veto, Theo may have opted for the next best thing. Or Edith may have checked with RC priests before her death (she may have known that she would not live much longer), and have got the answer that there was a veto from the Archbishop. In any case, the fact that she did get a Christian burial anyway should be mentioned if we keep the story about the veto. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 21:56, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this is probably worth going into a little more. From what I can see, there appears to have been some question of a Catholic funeral and clear evidence of a veto. David Bret goes into this in his book. "The Piaf Legend" and quotes a statement from Maurice Feltin, the Archbishop at the time. I can only access the book in snippet form on google books, but Feltin's statement seems to have run: "The honours that the Church reserves for its dead cannot be rendered towards Edith Piaf because of an irregular situation. Those who have appreciated the talents of Madame Piaf are deeply moved by her sudden death. Christians aware of her faith and charity will not fail to beseech divine mercy for her soul at the sacrifice of the Mass". Bret goes on to say prayers were said at the cemetery by two priests: Fr Thouvenin de Villaret, and a Jesuit, Msgr Martin. Bret's implication is both were Catholic, but given Sarapo's background it would be unsurprising if there was an Orthodox priest present too. If someone knows where to look in contemporary newspaper reports (French ones would be best) then it shouldn't be too difficult to get some further clarification on this. ANB (talk) 00:35, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm making an edit to the section about the funeral being denied today, having seen this article quoted on a Reddit thread. The article before the edit states that she was denied a funeral Mass "because of her lifestyle", relying on a Guardian article from 2003. However the Guardian's own archives give a more complete reason, quoted at https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2008/oct/14/2 : that she had remarried after a divorce in a Greek Orthodox Church. "Remarriage" is impossible in Catholic theology while a valid marriage still exists, and resorting to a Orthodox Church to 'remarry' implies a choice to move from Catholic to Orthodox theology and jurisdiction - and a Catholic funeral Mass is not appropriate for someone who has made the choice to become Orthodox instead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daldred (talk • contribs) 13:33, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

birth date

If the listed source claims her birth date is December 15, why is December 19 listed in introduction and the side bar box? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.161.105 (talk) 03:35, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Inception

Hi All, Just wanted to mention that I reworded the sentence "Probably the most famous use of one of her songs was in the film "Inception"." Édith Piaf was a superstar for decades, and according to this article some of her live recordings have "never been out of print." It doesn't seem fair to say that the most famous use of one of her songs is a novelty appearence in an American movie. 71.11.110.90 (talk) 00:46, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

I totally agree with you re. "It doesn't seem fair to say ... " etc.

I'd like to suggest that replacing the sentence with the following would be more than adequate: Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien was also used as a prominent motif in the narrative element of the film "Inception". The song is already famous and she will be remembered as a super-star long after this movie is forgotten. (I added "also" to the sentence since Non, Je Ne Regrette Rien is referred to in preceding paragraphs.) - Xenxax (talk) 11:27, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Jean Cocteau's Friends

Were all Nazi collaborators it seems ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.18.230.179 (talk) 05:57, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

No stoopid. Try reading the article. ~2026-10812-87 (talk) 23:14, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

External links modified

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Shame

Comment: this article is a shame for english Wikipedia. How it is possible that an article about Edith Piaf has in the first line that she was a "Cabaret Singer" ? It's enough to say that 70% of French artists (and of other nationalities on Paris) started singing on Cabarets, so why there's not a "Cabaret Singer" as the definition of Jacques Brel work, to use only one example? Ridiculous. Besides that, mentioning abhorred "rumors" about her life. It's sourced, but what really does matter a "rumor" having a source? So, there's a rumor about Edith Piaf's life, a very offensive rumor, but there's a source for the rumor, so it's ok. Ridiculous... Edith Piaf is too way important artist for having a biography of that level. Shame on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.6.227.188 (talk) 06:20, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• New-Map-Francophone World.PNG

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:40, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Pronunciation

@NKM1974: let me explain. /i/ already includes the pronunciation [piːˈɑːf], in free variation with [pɪˈɑːf], so it is absolutely redundant to transcribe the former pronunciation separately. That’s how we should deal with these cases in Wikipedia transcriptions. American sources normally just use the same symbol that is used for phonemic /iː/, whence probably your confusion originates. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 07:59, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98: This is the information on LPD 3rd edition by John Wells: BrE [ˈpiːæf] & AmE [piːˈɑːf]. This is the information on CEPD 18th edition by Peter Roach: BrE [ˈpiːæf] & [piːˈæf] AmE [ˈpiːɑːf] & [piːˈɑːf]. These two phonetics: ([piˈɑːf] is the same as [piːˈɑːf]) and ([piˈæf] is the same as [piːˈæf]). Am I correct? In that case, you should be adding 2 colons next to the i, as in /iː/. It's very confusing & Wikipedia uses the BrE IPA & not AmE IPA. NKM1974 (talk) 13:00, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

@NKM1974: I’d have to know how those sources normally transcribe /i/ before vowels to know whether is can only be tense as you say. Can you provide me any similar examples from them? 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 13:42, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98: Here's a Wikipedia link Close front unrounded vowel, happy /i/ in AmE & fleece /iː/ BrE. Since I based everything on listening/speaking & not an expert on phonetic rules, User:Nardog might be able to resolve this issue. NKM1974 (talk) 05:17, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

@NKM1974: what I meant is some examples that may have /i/ followed by a vowel, to see how the sources would transcribe it. But probably Nardog knows what system they use. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 05:31, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

/ˈiːdɪθ/ does seem the most common way English speakers pronounce her first name at least based on Youglish, but Edith is also an English given name so we can't use a dictionary as a source for it unless it specifically gives /ˈiːdɪθ/ for Édith, with the acute; it also means /eɪˈdiːt/ given in M-W is most likely prescriptive (see this discussion [perma]). /ˈpiːæf/, /pi(ː)ˈæf/, /ˈpiːɑːf/, and /pi(ː)ˈɑːf/ all do seem plausible and attested variants, but if we included them and cluttered the lead, it would be giving too much information to the point of giving no information. As for /iː/ vs. /i/, taken at face value, LPD is saying that the first syllable is not reduced—which is not readily discernible because all varieties of modern GA have the same quality in FLEECE and happY, but which could nonetheless be substantiated if a stress shift occurred in e.g. "a ˌPiaf ˈsong"—again, if taken at face value; it could be just a typo. Nardog (talk) 19:02, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

@IvanScrooge98:, it's the fleece /iː/ vowel that's missing & the happy /i/ vowel should be removed. @Kbb2: & @Nardog:, thank you for resolving this matter. NKM1974 (talk) 01:03, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

@Nardog: So we're mostly speaking of an artificial distinction. Weak /i, u/ and most likely /ər/ (though the strong variants of these should still be written with ⟨i⟩, ⟨u⟩ and ⟨ər⟩) don't exist in AmE except on some abstract level that's inaccessible to an ordinary speaker (in RP, the final vowels of "happy" and "pedigree" can be distinct even for happy-tensers, also compare "forward" vs. "foreword"). I really wish the editors of LPD and CEPD would get their facts straight and removed the length marks from AmE transcriptions (as well as the artificial distinction between NURSE and LETTER - GA features only the former). Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 08:05, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

bisexuality and affair with Marlene Dietrich

According to Stephen Bach in his Dietrich bio, and Dietrich's daughter Maria Riva in her book Marlene Dietrich, Piaf and Dietrich were lovers. Margaret Crosland mentions that Ginette and Simone Berteaut lived with her, but says there was 'no lesbian relationship' with them. I have not yet checked this with other sources. Piaf is listed in the Wikipedia list of bisexual people, so shouldn't she have bisexual women, bisexual musicians/entertainers, bisexual actresses categories? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.12.104 (talk) 16:56, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Édith Piaf/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TompaDompa (talk · contribs) 00:28, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

This is a WP:QUICKFAIL based on criterion 1 (It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria) and 3 (It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include {{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags (See also {{QF}})). Specifically, it fails WP:GACR 1a (the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct), 1b (it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch [...]), and 2b (reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose)), and needs the corresponding maintenance tags. I'll list some of the specific issues I noted while reading through the article:

• Generally, the article needs a thorough copyediting.
• The lead is way too long.
  • For one thing, it is eleven paragraphs. WP:LEAD says As a general rule of thumb, a lead section should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs. This could likely be fixed by judiciously merging paragraphs. I see no reason the first two paragraphs couldn't be a single paragraph, for instance.
  • More importantly, it is roughly 700 words for a prose article where the body is roughly 2,000 words long. There really is no scenario where a prose article should have a lead approaching a third of the length of the body—either the lead needs to be condensed further or the body needs to be expanded. As a point of comparison, the WP:Featured article Sinking of the Titanic is roughly 13,000 words, with a lead of roughly 400 words (and for a more recently-promoted FA example, Mars in fiction likewise has a 400-word lead, for an 8,000-word article).
• There is some redundancy and self-contradiction in the lead. The lead should very rarely repeat information within itself—it it does, that's a sign that it should be condensed further.
  • Édith Piaf (born Édith Gassion; 19 December 1915 – 10 October 1963) was a French singer [...] and She was born Édith Giovanna Gassion in Paris in 1915 to Annetta Giovanna Maillard. repeat the birth name (somewhat self-contradictorily) and year of birth needlessly.
  • Her most widely known songs include "La Vie en rose" (1946) and Piaf's signature song, La Vie en rose ("life in pink") was published in 1945 repeat information about the song and introduce a contradiction about the year.
  • Her stage name Édith Piaf was created at the age of twenty, when she started her singing career. and Piaf was acquited and changed her stage name to Édith Piaf. both introduce the stage name. "Acquited" should also be "acquitted".
  • Piaf's father was Louis Alphonse Gassion, an acrobatic street performer. and she accompanied her father on tours around France performing street acrobatics could be combined to avoid mention street acrobatics twice.
• The lead jumps back and forth in time a fair amount. The body does this too, to a lesser extent.
• There are several items in the lead that I would expect to be linked, but aren't. Examples include German occupation of France and The Ed Sullivan Show.
• Song titles are given in "quotes", not italics, per MOS:POPMUSIC.
• The lead gives the translation of La Môme Piaf as "the waif sparrow" or "the little waif", the infobox gives it as "The Little Sparrow", and the body gives it as " The Waif Sparrow" or "The Little Sparrow".
• Piaf was partly raised by her paternal grandmother in Bethandy, Normandy. – that should be Bernay, right? That's what the body says.
• From 1940-1944 – see MOS:ENFROM. The hyphen should be an en dash, but there shouldn't be a dash at all when preceded by "from".
• Piaf met actor/singer Yves Montand – see MOS:SLASH.
• the two conducted an affair – this phrasing seems a bit odd.
• Her last song, L'Homme de Berlin was recorded with her husband in April 1963. – the husband in question has not yet been mentioned at this point, which means the reader does not have the necessary context here.
• Large portions of the body resemble WP:Proseline writing.
• Despite numerous biographies, much of Piaf's life is unknown. – the source only says If even half of Olivier Dahan's robust film about Piaf's life is true -- and let's face it, much remains shrouded in myth and mystery, making no point about biographies. "Despite X, Y" is textbook WP:Synthesis.
• sparrow (a small bird) – I doubt we need to gloss "sparrow", especially if it's linked.
• The year-span subheadings in the "Career" section are a bit dull. I might suggest subheadings along the lines of "Early career", "World War II", and so on.
• Piaf took a room at the Grand Hôtel de Clermont in Paris and worked with Berteaut as a street singer around Paris and its suburbs. – unsourced.
• Leplée persuaded Piaf (then known by her birth name of Édith Gassion) – this is just a very clumsy way of writing it. I would suggest writing that he persuaded "her".
• A barrage of negative media attention now threatened Piaf's career. –this is the kind of WP:EMPHATIC language WP:Writing better articles advises against.
• This song was entered into the Grammy Hall of Fame in 1998. – unsourced.
• In April 1963, Piaf recorded her last song before her death, titled L'Homme de Berlin. – unsourced.
• In October 1949, Cerdan flew from Paris to New York City to meet Piaf, however his flight was Air France Flight 009 which crashed while attempting to land at a stopover in Portugal. – rather clumsy way of including the link to Air France Flight 009.
• Piaf's drug dependencies are attributed – by whom?
• the two remained married until Piaf's death. – unsourced.
• before passing away – MOS:EUPHEMISM.
• In 1973, the Association of the Friends of Édith Piaf was formed, followed by the inauguration of the Place Édith Piaf in Belleville in 1981. Soviet astronomer Lyudmila Georgievna Karachkina named a small planet, 3772 Piaf, in her honor. – unsourced.
• The "Discography" and "Filmography" sections are unsourced, as is the "Biographies" subsection.

I wish you the best of luck with this article in the future, and hope to see it renominated once the issues listed above have been addressed. In the meantime, I'll add some maintenance tags to the article. TompaDompa (talk) 00:28, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why is there no mention of her daughter Marcelle?

Many other biographies on the Internet mention the birth of a daughter. https://uofa.ru/en/biografiya-golosa-parizha-edit-piaf-sudba-malyshki-s-golosom/ Grandma Roses (talk) 12:12, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Grandmother or mother?

"Annetta's father was Auguste Eugène Maillard (1866–1912) of French descent and her grandmother was Emma (Aïcha) Saïd Ben Mohammed (1876–1930), an acrobat of Kabyle and Italian descent."

As Emma (Aïcha) is declared to have been the grandmother of Piaf she cannot have been the grandmother but only the mother of her mother Anetta. 2001:9E8:24A:F000:75B3:ADBE:B7C9:EC8C (talk) 17:29, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

GA Review 2025

Having worked through the comments in the above GA Review I'm inclined to submit the article for GA Review anew. Any and all further tidying etc welcome. -Yadsalohcin (talk) 17:39, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Women in Green 20-minute assessment

Hello Yadsalohcin! As requested at the May 2025 Women in Green GA edit-a-thon, here is a short mini-review to help identify any major improvements needed by this article before a formal Good Article nomination is submitted. You've made an excellent start of preparing this article for a GA review (I see you've been tackling much-needed reference and prose improvements, including suggestions from the last GA review), but I think it still needs some work before it's formally submitted for another full review. Here are some things to address now:

• The opening line of the "Early life" section seems unneeded: "Despite numerous biographies, some details of Piaf's life are unknown." What details are unknown? Why does this need to be mentioned here, instead of focusing on the details that are known? All biographies will inevitably have some blind spots, so I don't think this line is necessary unless you need to explain why a specific piece of information is missing.
• The Discography section has a "needs additional citations" tag. Maintenance tags should be addressed and removed before the article undergoes a GA review.
• Earwig's copy-vio tool has flagged some possible copyright violations. I think these other websites are likely "backwards copies" (they took the text from Wikipedia), but you should check the dates of publication and compare with earlier versions of the Wikipedia article (via the article history) to make sure. You can use this talk page template to flag any backwards copies.
• I had a look through the article's images and their copyright status tags. The four photos of Piaf from 1950 and earlier all have tags explaining why they are public domain in France, but no confirmation about their copyright status in the U.S. Because Wikipedia hosts servers (and digital content) in the United States, public domain images from other countries must meet public domain requirements from the U.S. as well as from their country of origin in order to be considered freely usable on Wikipedia. If you're not certain whether these French photos also meet American public domain requirements, I recommend checking in at the Commons Copyright Village Pump page, which is a great place to ask questions about photo copyright.
• From a quick glance through the list of currently cited sources in this article, I'm noticing a few sources that may be considered unreliable (or not reliable enough to meet GA criteria): BroadwayWorld, Goodreads, and YouTube all lack editorial oversight, and are flagged in this list of "perennial" often-discussed sources. I recommend taking a closer look at the article's full list of sources -- consider removing content or replacing sources with more reliable citations when necessary.
• While not strictly required to meet GA criteria, it's good practice to include alt text for all images (I suggest 1-2 concise lines of clear visual description for each photo).

This is a fascinating biography, and I hope you continue to work on improvements for it. Good luck! Let me know if you have any questions about my comments. Alanna the Brave (talk) 22:28, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

@Alanna the Brave many thanks for the suggestions wrt Edith Piaf - I hope to get on with responding to these asap. Yadsalohcin (talk) 10:38, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

@Alanna the Brave I think I have an idea of what the originator of the opening line of the "Early life" section may have been trying to get at, but I haven't tested the theory and I agree that there's enough in the article not to need to shout about any yawning chasm... Re the discography section, I added the general references at the head and left 'refimprove' as a reminder - the first few have reference numbers and dates - as per '(Capitol ST 10295) 1962' - would these be sufficient if added throughout? Thanks again, Yadsalohcin (talk) 11:25, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Re the picture files

• File:Piaf Harcourt 1946 2.jpg
• File:Edith Piaf Harcourt 1950 1.jpg
• File:Edith Piaf et les Compagnons de la Chanson.jpg
• File:1951 La P'tite Lili - Théatre ABC retouched.jpg
• File:Edith Piaf enfant.jpg

It seems unlikely that these qualify as being in the public domain at present, and accordingly, on a precautionary basis, they have been deleted from the article. See discussion at https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Photos_in_%C3%89dith_Piaf_article Yadsalohcin (talk) 21:48, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

I have had a look at the potential copyright issues flagged up by Earwig's Copyvio, and from looking at a few key phrases that it picked up on in each case concluded that the top 3 cases (cdgo.com, whoisthemonk, and emanuellevy) look to be reverse copies and I have listed these into a template added at the head of this page. The fourth case is that of marefa.org, for which the original is in Arabic, making comparison rather harder, but from what I can see it looks as if mostly here copyvio is picking up on song, book and film titles. I suspect that these are inevitable in such a biographical piece and I would contend that no infringement exists here. That covers the 4 cases >70%; a fifth, ~30% is described as 'Violation unlikely' and subsequent ones score <20%. Yadsalohcin (talk) 10:43, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Édith Piaf/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Yadsalohcin (talk · contribs) 22:35, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: Reidgreg (talk · contribs) 22:35, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Initial comments

Substantial work has been done since the article's first GA review (which did not pass), about 250 edits and 2 years ago. The article now has about 300 fewer words of prose (mostly taken from the overlong lead) but is 50% larger, with nearly twice as many sources cited. All of the major issues in that review have been addressed.

Full review to be forthcoming. – Reidgreg (talk) 22:35, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

I'm going to be away for a few days so thought I should post what I have so far. I am open to discussion on any point. – Reidgreg (talk) 19:50, 29 May 2025 (UTC)

@Reidgreg thanks for this - I should be able to work through these detailed comments over the next week or so. Yadsalohcin (talk) 08:22, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

@Yadsalohcin: I apologize for my prolonged absence. I'll try to get back to this now. This may also be a bit complicated as it seems parts of the subject's past have been misreported and mythologized somewhat, so need to take a close look at sources with high-quality sources preferred, when available. – Reidgreg (talk) 14:47, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

Criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Review comments

Referencing & verifiability

• named ref allmusicbio (was yahoomusicbio). Note that Earwig is unable to check against Allmusic for copyvio, so this has to be checked manually. Used 25 times:
  • She is widely regarded as France's greatest popular singer and one of the most celebrated performers of the 20th century.
  • Twenty years later, Édith's stage surname Piaf was created by her first promoter, based on a French term for 'sparrow'
  • Piaf's mother abandoned her at birth, and she lived for a short time with her maternal grandmother, Emma (Aïcha), in Bethandy, Normandy. When her father enlisted with the French Army in 1916 to fight in World War I, he took her to his mother, at her brothel in Bernay, Normandy. There, prostitutes helped look after Piaf.
    N
    First sentence does not appear to be in source. For the second sentence, this source says that her father sent her to live with his mother after the war. Third sentence is ok.
    • Citations added to additional sources: First clause to Encyclopedia Britannica. The remainder of the first sentence is cited to a travel blog, which itself credits biography.com. There are, however, discrepancies between the two. The travel blog says she lived with her maternal grandmother for a short time, but not that this was in Bethandy (and does not name her).
      N
      The second and third sentences are now cited to Burke. (will check them below)
  • Together they [Piaf and Simone Berteaut] toured the streets singing and earning money for themselves. With the additional money Piaf earned as part of an acrobatic trio, she and Berteaut were able to rent their own place.
    N
    Underlined part not in source.
    • Part of the unsourced material was put into a wikicomment; I've struck that above. The underlined part remains unsourced. Allmusic does have while living in a succession of cheap, squalid hotels. One could assume that they rented these places together with their earnings, but I'd rather leave that assumption to the reader and keep this closer to the source (or find another source).
  • In 1935, Piaf (then still known by her birth name of Édith Gassion) was discovered by nightclub owner Louis Leplée.
  • which is Paris slang for "The Sparrow Kid". Leplée taught Piaf about stage presence and told her to wear a black dress, which became her trademark apparel.
  • Prior to Piaf's opening night, Leplée ran an intense publicity campaign, resulting in the attendance of many celebrities.
  • with one of them penned by Marguerite Monnot, a collaborator throughout Piaf's life and one of her favourite composers.
  • On 6 April 1936 [Leplée was murdered]
    N
    source has only April 1936, not the full date.
  • A barrage of negative media attention now threatened Piaf's career.
  • Raymond Asso He changed her stage name to "Édith Piaf", barred undesirable acquaintances from seeing her, and commissioned Monnot to write songs that reflected or alluded to Piaf's previous life on the streets.
  • In 1940, Piaf co-starred in Jean Cocteau's one-act play Le Bel Indifférent.
  • Piaf wrote and performed her signature song, "La Vie en rose" in 1945. Source Allmusic has only that she recorded this song in 1946.
    N
  • In 1947, she wrote the lyrics to the song "What Can I Do?" for her lover Montand. Within a year, Montand became one of the most famous singers in France. She broke off their relationship when he had become almost as popular as she was.
    N
    The underline part is not in source, particularly looking for verification that she wrote the song for Montand. The last sentence, while a faithful paraphrase of the source, seems to imply that she broke off the affair because his popularity was approaching her own. I'd like to see another source to corroborate that (or rephrase).
  • touring Europe, the United States, and South America. In Paris, she gave Argentinian guitarist-singer Atahualpa Yupanqui – a central figure in the Argentine folk music tradition – the opportunity to share the scene, making his debut in July 1950. Piaf also helped launch the career of Charles Aznavour in the early 1950s, taking him on tour with her in France and the United States and recording some of his songs.
    N
    Underlined parts not in source.
  • At first she met with little success with American audiences, who expected a gaudy spectacle and were disappointed by Piaf's simple presentation.
  • However, after a glowing review by influential New York critic Virgil Thomson in 1947,
  • [morphine] which became a dependency alongside her alcohol problems.
  • In 1952, her then-husband forced Piaf into a detox clinic on three separate occasions.
    N
    Source says that she married Pills in 1952, but not that Pills forced her into rehab three times that year. Also, the phrasing is too close to the source: "forced her into a detox clinic on three separate occasions."
  • In 1962, she wed Théo Sarapo (Theophanis Lamboukas), a singer, actor, and former hairdresser who was born in France of Greek descent.
    N
    Source does not have the year, the non-singing professions, and describes him as "Greek".
  • and the two remained married until Piaf's death.
    N
    Not stated in source.
  • She was taken to her villa in Plascassier on the French Riviera where she was nursed by Sarapo and her friend Simone Berteaut. Over the next few months she drifted in and out of consciousness, before dying at age 47 on 10 October 1963.
    N
    Source says 11 October.
  • It is said that Sarapo drove her body from Plascassier to Paris secretly, so that fans would think she had died in her hometown. Underlined part not in source, but may be covered by a second citation.
  • Piaf's body is buried in Père Lachaise Cemetery in Paris, where her grave is among the most visited.
  • Shortly after her death, Piaf's funeral procession drew tens of thousands of mourners onto the streets of Paris, I would mention that estimating crowd size can be difficult and in some cases would require an expert source, but if sources are in general agreement on this then I'm fine with it.
• named ref "Burke" (no link) Caroline Burke, No Regrets: The Life of Edith Piaf (2011). https://books.google.mg/books?id=k5gcJnhQRvUC This book is 282 pages so page numbers would be useful. Used 6 times:
  • She is widely regarded as France's greatest popular singer and one of the most celebrated performers of the 20th century. page xi (Prelude)
  • Piaf met a young man named Louis Dupont in 1932 and lived with him for a time; she became pregnant and gave birth to a daughter, Marcelle "Cécelle" Dupont, on 11 February 1933, when Piaf was seventeen. After Piaf's relationship with Dupont ended, Marcelle, who had been living with her father, contracted meningitis and died in July 1935, aged two. Pages 27–28. The year 1932 is not given, though it states "Edith was sixteen and a half when she realized that she was pregnant." which would place that as the summer of 1932. For the second sentence, page 34 covers Dupont taking Cecelle; the remainder is presumably somewhere in pages 37 to 38, which are not in the Google preview. AGF.
  • [At Piaf's opening night] The bandleader that evening was Django Reinhardt, with his pianist, Norbert Glanzberg. Page 35 is given with the citation, but this does not match the edition in Google preview. (The same citation is used in the article on Glanzberg.) This period would seem to be from page 44–45, which is not in the preview. AGF.
  • Piaf was accused of collaborating with the German occupying forces and had to testify before a Épuration légale (post-war legal trial), as there were plans to ban her from appearing on radio transmissions. Seems to be from around page 99 on snippet view.
  • Following the trial, Piaf was quickly back in the singing business and in December 1944, she performed for the Allied forces in Marseille, alongside singer/actor Yves Montand. AGF
  • French media have continually published magazines, books, plays, television specials and films about the star, often on the anniversary of her death. perhaps from around page 234 or 264. AGF.
• additional citations to Burke; cited 6 times in the nominated version, now there are 15 citations to Burke.
  • Her father enlisted with the French Army in 1916 to fight in World War I. By the end of the war, she was in the care of his mother, at her brothel in Bernay, Normandy. Source, page 7, does not have the underlined parts. I found the part about the brothel on page 8. If you can't find a source for the first underlined part, it could probably be stated more generally.
  • From the age of three to seven, Piaf was allegedly blind as a result of keratitis. page 9. Good for most of this. Page 9 says that she had "blurred vision" and page 8 states that her vision was impaired. So I'd like if if this backed off a bit from 'blind'. Suggest: From the age of three to seven, Piaf suffered vision impairment/blurred vision and was diagnosed with keratitis.
  • Piaf claimed this resulted in a miraculous healing.
  • who became a companion for most of her life. In a memoir, Berteaut later falsely represented herself as Piaf's half-sister. AGF, consistent with other sources.
  • Her singing when she met Leplée has been described as "Comme un moineau" ("Like a Sparrow"). pages 42–43. AGF
  • Piaf was accused of collaborating with the German occupying forces and in October 1944 page 99. Snippet view that she testified in October. The purge courts began their work in June 1944, before Paris was liberated, so 1944 fits the timeline. AGF on the remainder.
  • she had to testify before an Épuration légale (post-war legal trial), as there were plans to ban her from appearing on radio transmissions. page 99. Snippet view that Piaf's name was published by a purge panel on a list banned from the radio. AGF
  • Following the trial, Piaf was quickly back performing in benefit concerts. page 100. Snippet view that she performed "benefits for war victims".
  • In December 1944, she performed for the Allied forces in Marseille, alongside Montand. page 100. Snippet view "December, they performed for the American soldiers stationed in Marseille" and then names Yves [Montand].
  • French media have continually published magazines, books, plays, television specials and films about the star, often on the anniversary of her death added page 232. Snippet view roughly confirms this, through page 234 or so.
  • This biography contained the false claim that Berteaut was Piaf's half-sister. pages 415-416. Not sure about those pages, but can confirm it on page 25.

• rfimusique "Edith Piaf biography" at Radio France Internationale. Staff writers. Used 7 times:
  • Édith Piaf's birth certificate indicates she was born in Paris on 19 December 1915, at the Hôpital Tenon hospital. This hospital is not mentioned in the source.
    N
    Found this in named reference universalis.
  • Leplée persuaded Piaf to sing despite her extreme nervousness. This nervousness and her height of only 142 centimetres (4 ft 8 in) This source says 147 cm (4'9 7/8"), and does not mention her nervousness. A second source is also cited and has 4-foot-eight, and also does not mention her nervousness.
    N
    Burke page 5 has "four feet ten inches" in snippet view, but I can't be sure what it is referring to (no other heights seem to be given, however).
  • A barrage of negative media attention now threatened Piaf's career. This source doesn't seem to make that connection; Leplee's death left her without a manager/patron/employer, and that derailed her career with or without the media attention. However, used alongside Allmusic, I feel it's good.
  • In 1944, Piaf performed in the Moulin Rouge cabaret venue in Paris, where she worked with singer/actor Yves Montand and began an affair with him. This source does not have the underlined part, but there is a second source.?
  • Between January 1955 and October 1962, Piaf performed several series of concerts at the Paris Olympia music hall.
  • Excerpts from five of these concerts (1955, 1956, 1958, 1961, 1962) were issued on vinyl record (and later on CD), and have never been out of print. In the 1961 concerts, promised by Piaf in an effort to save the venue from bankruptcy, she first sang Non, je ne regrette rien. Did not find the middle underlined part about the concerts being recorded, released on vinyl and CD, and never being out of print.
    N
  • They had an affair, which made international headlines since Cerdan was the former middleweight world champion, and at the time was married with three children. The source does not mention his marriage or children, instead attributing headlines to their mutual celebrity.
    N
• "csmonitor0707" The Christian Science Monitor. Used 6 times:
  • Her birth name was Édith Giovanna Gassion.
  • In 1935, Piaf (then still known by her birth name of Édith Gassion) was discovered by nightclub owner Louis Leplée.
  • inspired Leplée to give her the nickname La Môme Piaf, This source does not say what inspired the nickname, so strictly speaking this is synthesis, but it is readily verifiable from other sources so I'll give it a tick.
  • Leplée was murdered. Piaf was questioned and accused as an accessory, but acquitted.
  • During this time, she was in great demand and very successful in Paris A bit weak from this source, but generally verifiable.
  • After the war, she became known internationally,
• Unnamed reference "Two Paris Love Stories" Kiosque. Author Thirza Vallois is a Paris guide book author, and the piece is written as general interest around Valentine's day. Maybe not an expert source. Used once:
  • The name "Édith" was inspired by British nurse Edith Cavell, who was executed 2 months before Édith's birth for helping French soldiers escape from German captivity during World War I. Underlined part not in source. This can probably be found elsewhere, such as Burke page 6.
• "vansun" Freelance writer to a newspaper, writing about numerous events and promotions on the death anniversaries. Used four times:
  • N
    Okay, this is disappointing. This source does not verify any of the four passages in the article which are cited to it. The second instance, you can just remove it as there are two other sources to cover that passage. For the first, third and fourth, it's the only citation so the article needs sources which actually verify the material.
• three unnamed references, books in French: Arletty, confidences à son secrétaire, page 144; Monique Lange (auteur de Les cabines de bain); Monique Lange et Edmonde Charles-Roux à propos d' Edith Piaf | INA used once (together) for:
  • Édith's mother, Annetta Giovanna Maillard (1895–1945) was a singer and circus performer born in Italy who performed under the stage name "Line Marsa". The first source does not cover the underlined parts. I think that Burke says Piaf shared the middle name Giovanna with her mother. AGF on the rest.
• Four French-language references Édith Giovanna Gassion dite Édith Piaf, universalis, Edith Piaf Secrète et publique by Denise Gassion, Robert Morcet (offline), and "Death certificate Year 1890, France, Montluçon (03), 1890, N°501, 2E 191 194". Used once for one passage:
  • Annetta's father was Auguste Eugène Maillard (1866–1912) of French descent and Édith's grandmother was Emma (Aïcha) Saïd Ben Mohammed (1876–1930), an acrobat of Kabyle and Italian descent. The first source does nothing to verify any of this (and seems like an ad farm in any case). Universalis says Anita is of Italo-Kabyle origin. That's about it.
• There is an unnamed offline reference ISBN 9782020164535. Its inclusion of a quote and translation would seem that it is intended to be used as a source for Aïcha's birthplace, birthdate and ethnicity. Suggest moving it up one sentence (or more).
• Unnamed offline reference Piaf: A Passionate Life by David Bret. Bret writes sensationalistic biographies focusing on affairs and scandals, but this is used only for a date verification. AGF.
• Encyclopedia Britannica used once:
  • Piaf's mother abandoned her at birth

Broadness

• Reading through Burke via Google Books, pages 42–43 has an account of her nickname, with her singing "Comme un moineau" ("Like a Sparrow") when she met Leplée. (This might be too much detail for the prose but could perhaps be footnoted.)
• I'd like to see something to inform the readers (and future editors) about how at various times parts of the subject's biography have been mythologized. Some bits that could be used:
  • Biography.com Much of her past is shrouded in mystery and may have been embellished during her time as a celebrity. and Continuing the tradition of performing chansons réalistes, she commissioned songs that romanticized her life on the streets, passionately emphasizing her inner strength.
  • Burke, pages 25-26: ...Berteaut would write in her spirited but misleading life of the singer, in which she presents herself as Edith's half sister. Later in life, Piaf called Berteaut her mauvaise génie (the evil spirit who brought out the worst in her) and omitted her from her memoirs. and Berteaut's book is most reliable on their early years. and The younger girl's fixation on her "big sister," composed of gratitude, jealousy, and resentment, would warp her perceptions of their life together and her own role in Piaf's path to success.

• rfimusique has more on her pre-war career: She acted and performed (sang) in the film La Garçonne (1936 film) (in the film, Piaf scandalously seduces the leading lady). After this, she became a headliner in Paris venues. This is also in Burke page 47 which describes it as a cameo role.

Media

Three images and one sound clip. The images are tagged PD, CCPD and CCSA, all good.

The sound clip has a fair use rationale for the article Hymne à l'amour, an article on the song from which the clip was taken. However, there is no fair use rationale for the clip's inclusion with this article.

N

Suggest removing the sound clip from this article. If you want to make a fair use case for the clip in this article, the clip should be moved out of the infobox and to a relevant section of the article where the clip would support statements in the prose. Removed

The version from the last GA review had a few more images, all of which are tagged as public domain. It seems these were removed because the PD tag was for France only and not the US. I think there could be a fair use rationale for using some of them in the article.

General discussion

@Yadsalohcin and Reidgreg: Do either of you plan on returning to this? It's been two months.--Launchballer 02:04, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

@Launchballer thanks for asking. I keep a watch on it, having fixed the points in the 'Review comments' section above, but have run out of steam wrt the 'Criteria' section; no further plans at the moment. Yadsalohcin (talk) 08:08, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

@Yadsalohcin and Launchballer: My apologies; this has turned out to be much more work than I expected. I've continued to check sources and have been writing notes offline (up to reference 20) but haven't had a decent block of time to work on it for quite a while. I've encountered enough issues that I feel everything needs to be checked rather than just a "spot check". But perhaps I should just post what I have so far? – Reidgreg (talk) 00:10, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

@Reidgreg Thanks for working through this- clearly I'd been too complacent, as from what I'd seen I thought the article wasn't stacking up too badly against the refs... I'm happy to pick up the occasional set of requests for sorting on this article from time to time, tho' again, I can't guarantee an instant response. If there's going to be a lot to do (which sounds likely) then I'd rather have it in manageable drips than in one deluge, so please go ahead with what you've got. Yadsalohcin (talk) 00:21, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

@Yadsalohcin: I've posted some additional review comments. I wrote them probably a month ago so they may not reflect the current version of the article (as it's continued to be edited). I usually like to review all the referencing in a single post, but I have been putting this off for way too long. At this point, only the first quarter of the references have been examined in this review.

Before working further, I feel I should make a big-picture suggestion, though this is stepping well outside the GA criteria. The thing is, if I was taking the lead as primary author on this article, I'd be tempted to start over: to take the very best sources from the references section and any other high-quality sources I could find, and rewrite the article from scratch in draftspace to make sure everything is reliably sourced, neutral, and free of original research, copyvio, etc. Using the existing article as a guide for structure and content to look for, of course. I feel that might be the easier way to meet policy and would also bring the article well on its way to meeting FAC, if you have any aspirations in that direction.

But that's just me; it's established that I like making big "deluge" edits. We can continue working on this review in piecemeal fashion. – Reidgreg (talk) 14:47, 3 August 2025 (UTC)

• User:Yadsalohcin and User:Reidgreg: What is the status of this review? Bgsu98 (Talk) 15:23, 17 September 2025 (UTC)

  @Bgsu98 Regrettably I'm a bit snowed under now and for the foreseeable future, so my input here has largely stalled. -Yadsalohcin (talk) 10:23, 19 September 2025 (UTC)

  @Yadsalohcin: I can close this if you'd like and you can always resubmit it in the future. Any future reviewer can always refer back to these notes. Let me know what you think. Bgsu98 (Talk) 10:48, 19 September 2025 (UTC)

  @Bgsu98 I suspect that closing it would be the sensible thing to do. Thanks, -Yadsalohcin (talk) 14:39, 19 September 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

May 2025 (grandmother's ancestry)

@Factchecker hero:} where he was born is irrelevant to the fact that he was Kabyle (Plenty of Algerians moved to Morocco during the French colonisation). Anyway, this fact is sourced to primary, secondary and tertiary sources, and therefore, not something that you can challenge or change at will. M.Bitton (talk) 12:23, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

Let's not edit war on this or I may be required to quickfail the GA review. Conflicts over nationality and ancestry are a frequent source of edit warring (see WP:LAME). I haven't gone through many of the sources yet, but my tendency would be to footnote it with any disagreement between major sources – or possibly to trim it altogether as it's a bit tangential to the subject of this article and better belongs in the biography article for the grandmother. – Reidgreg (talk) 13:19, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

No objection to trimming the stuff about her grandmother, as most RS don't mention her, but the fact that her mother, Line Marsa, is described as being of Italian-Kabyle origin (d'origine italo-kabyle) is repeated in multiple RS, including tertiary ones (which usually establish DUE). M.Bitton (talk) 13:26, 28 May 2025 (UTC)