User talk:Hoary/Archive 13

Please don't make any edit to this archive page.

It covers the period from July 2011 to November 2012.

If you'd like to reply to or comment on anything you see here, please do so on the current talk page.

File:Wp-naughty-bit.jpg listed for deletion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Wp-naughty-bit.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 22:08, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks, that was incredible, he moved it yesterday and I reverted him, now he does it again. It even has memos to me, unreferenced and unchecked facts, quite a lot of conjecture and supposition (by me) and a flag warning people that it's infinished - what more can one bloody well do? One depsairs - it's not even as though he's a new user. Thanks again. Giacomo Returned 11:03, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Ah, but you seem to assume that he's read it. ¶ Today, my comment to him is (I think and hope) polite. I hope that there is no next time. If there is, I'll dispense with the politeness. -- Hoary (talk) 11:21, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Sadly the history seems to have got lost now, it looks as though he started the page, amongst that which is lost was him removing an "unfinshed memo" at the top of the page. He knew exactly what he was dfoing. Is there anyway i can get the history back - I don't know how it has become lost? Giacomo Returned 11:26, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll look into it and try to fix matters. I may make a few little slips along the way; please be patient for a few minutes. -- Hoary (talk) 12:59, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I've restored the history, but in doing so seem to have deleted your latest changes. Worse, I can now see no sign of the latter. Oh dear, I hope that I haven't lost much of your time/work. I could look a bit further, but it's late here, I'm sleepy, and if I try to do more there's a risk I'll make a worse fuck-up. Well, I hope that my last restoration was a net plus; but whether it was or wasn't, please don't hesitate to call in a competent, wide awake admin to get things right. -- Hoary (talk) 13:11, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Just because you are an admin doesn't make you unaccountable

Whilst my comments towards AMacR may not always assume good faith-and for very good reason at times i believe-your comment in regards to what constitutes "thinking non-fanatics" is worse than anything i've said about OR and POV, and the fact your an administrator makes it worse and seriously calls into account your judgement - something i was already wondering about before you made the comment.

"Well, it's off-topic" sounds like a very poor excuse to avoid discussing your comment especially as you went off-topic many times questioning me and my comments. One rule for me and one for you? As an administrator are you above accountability for your words? No your not. Am i? No, but i'm not an administrator.

"Well, it's off-topic" is tantamount to a defense of your comment especially as you never apologsied for it or retracted it or bothered to explain it to me on my talk page. That comment i feel has seriously called into question your neutrality and ability as an administator, especially in that discussion, and could even breach conduct and accountability.

The administrators wiki page states: Administrators are expected to respond promptly and civilly to queries about their Wikipedia-related conduct and administrator actions and to justify them when needed. - this means you are bound to answer queries about your conduct - i asked you to elaborate, and you ignored the request. I brought it up again and you try to bury it with "Well, it's off-topic".

Mabuska ^(talk) 11:25, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

By "thinking non-fanatics" I exclude people who like to march or put out bunting. I'll rephrase the last noun phrase: people who like to march in uniform or put out flags. Such people aren't necessarily fanatics, but they seem more likely to be than do people who neither march in uniform nor put out flags. -- Hoary (talk) 11:40, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Maybe you were looking for the word bigot? It is a still a seriously ill-informed viewpoint anyways. Whilst yes there are bigots who march and put out bunting - the majority who do aren't. Everything has bad eggs that tarnishes the quiet majority, its like assuming every Irishman knows how to make bombs and riot. Don't mistake patriotism or expressing ones faith as fanaticism - otherwise your tarnishing close to a million people in Northern Ireland. Mabuska ^(talk) 11:00, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Drscottesims

I followed your suggestion--and left you a request. Drmies (talk) 05:27, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I dunno; I don't think I've ever closed an MfD and I've only very rarely closed any XfD. I copied a pile of mumbo jumbo from the first closed MfD I encountered, which happened to be this one. I hope I got it right. -- Hoary (talk) 11:15, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I wonder if you were the right person to close it. Since you opened it, you were scarcely uninvolved. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:12, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Since somebody else (Drmies) had deleted it and then asked me to clear up after him/her, I thought that the clear-up would be uncontroversial (and indeed that politely refusing to do so would seem petty). And all this for something that I probably could have speedied in the first place. But don't hesitate to reopen it if you like; I won't object. -- Hoary (talk) 21:21, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Hoary didn't delete the page, only noted that the deletion had already happened. There was no further outcome to talk about (never mind the content was a blatant PR blurb which could have been speedied with no fuss at all). A nom can close their own XfD when the outcome is foregone, as a means of saving volunteer time. Gwen Gale (talk) 22:42, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, and I didn't actually see the close as problematic. (If I had then I would have reopened it.) However, I just wondered if it would have been better to have kept clear, to avoid any doubts. JamesBWatson (talk) 08:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, next time I'll try harder to avoid the impression of impropriety. -- Hoary (talk) 23:32, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

A purely technical comment: When you copy/pasted the boilerplate, you accidentally copied a bit too much, which resulted in a strange result when the page was transcluded. I performed this bit of corrective surgery to set it straight. In case you have to close another one, it's easier to insert for instance {{subst:mfd top|'''delete'''. ~~~~}} at the top and {{subst:mfd bottom}} at the end. Favonian (talk) 11:44, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Now that really was silly of me. Sorry about that. -- Hoary (talk) 23:32, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Michele Bachmann presidential campaign, 2012

I'd rather not participate in the talk page discussion as I have no wish to subject myself to Arzel's incessant personal attacks. When he has something to contribute beyond insults and the usual alphabet soup, I'll chime in there. Gamaliel (talk) 05:37, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Come come, you're an administrator. We administrators thrive on personal attacks and other dubious allegations (as long as they're directed at ourselves). Indeed, there's a rather good one above; read and enjoy. -- Hoary (talk) 05:46, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

lol. Maybe they thought your handle was spelled "Whorey" --69.143.17.59 (talk) 01:21, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Haw haw haw! -- Hoary (talk) 01:42, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

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Stephanie Adams

The fact of whether she is "self published" or not is really such a trivial topic that a certain IP address continues to add. I personally am a published author by one of those publishing companies and actually got paid, rather then paying them. In any event, it's best to NOT post something that is questionable, never cited or sourced online, and is not a documented fact. You seemed to agree by not posting it. Perhaps the IP address that enjoys posting it should read the following comment on the top of the Discussion Page: "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libellous." Cheers! 74.101.6.188 (talk) 16:09, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Hoary does not care. I'm not even sure whey he even visits her page, except to regurgitate his thoughts. He/She makes derogatory comments and tacky insults about the subject matter (and I'm sure he doesn't know her personally) all the time, which is also libellous. Maybe he's the weird "69" user who hides and stalks this page. 71.183.68.120 (talk) 08:14, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

You're right about one thing: I don't know her personally. I've never met her, and indeed I am not interested in her. If I'm not interested in her, why am I interested in her article? For the same reason that I'm interested in the articles about (though not in the persons of) various people, e.g. Richard Fitzwilliams. -- Hoary (talk) 12:02, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Hubertine Heijermans

Hello, as you made some revisions I first of all want to thank you for your help. Maybe you understand it looked rather severe to me, as it seemed I did not mention enough sources. But how can I do that? Your changes and questions really confused me and I did not expect them. What else to give as a source? The portrait of Emmanuelle Béart with the white hat can even be seen and recognised. And is the official website itself not of help where portaits of actresses are shown and where the signature of the artist is present on the portrait. I will certainly not invent things when writing this article. As you made several changes or remarks I hope it is ok that I answer here and not in the article. For the exhibit in Singapore for instance the Straight Times article mentions the artist and the Gallery of Nanc Roach> they skipped the y of the name Nancy. Is it possible that well-known people in France in particular, are not known any longer in the world of today ? Thanks for any suggestions, Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 00:41, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I note your questions, and I may try to answer them later. First, however, I have a question for you. In this edit, you appear to claim to be the copyright holder of a work by Hubertine Heijermans. I infer from this that you are Hubertine Heijermans. Is this correct? -- Hoary (talk) 01:11, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

The answer on your question about copyright and the name is yes. I had to take over from user Paldopaldino, who started. I hope you can see and verify. Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 01:34, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. Please read "Wikipedia:Autobiography", and stop editing the article itself, other than to correct straightforward errors (whether inserted by other people or [via typos, etc] by yourself) and of course to restore after any vandalism. However, please feel free to make suggestions in the article's talk page.

Now, are there reliable sources (according to Wikipedia's definition) for the claims made in the article? These may be in English, French, Dutch, Italian or any other language, and they may be on the web, on paper, on microfiche. If they exist, footnotes pointing to them should be added. (Please suggest them in the article's talk page.) If they do not exist, the claims should be removed. -- Hoary (talk) 01:45, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice, but it opens up things I have to add, because I am about to give up. First of all it was never the idea to write myself: I edited a book on request of the Commune where I live in 2009, which should have been sufficient in itself, but is not. The public does not know about art and/or does not read. Secondly Paldopaldino, a steward on Swiss planes, started this article in french and was accused with NO warning of vandalism. Last year he did not know yet about talk pages, therefore never reacted to questions of wikipedians. He found out that ANY french article is corrected by the French. There exists NO Swiss wikipedia. The french did not even acknowledge the Musée Jenisch, even less took into account articles in the big Swiss newspapers. Paldopaldino wrote the article on demand of the Commune Ollon (where we live). This was, because I am old, worked my head off and some people realized that women artists are undervalued. This is why the need to put things according to Wikipedia rules (well naturally so), is sort of killing in this case. Because the risk exists now that essential things that DID happen will be left out. Like the meeting that took place in Florence with the great painter Annigoni. Nobody even then did believe one could be so lucky as to receive advice about something so apparently insignificant as the use of lead white, from such a great master. I now also explain the absolute 'must' to be and to have to remain discreet about portraits of persons. Letters of Camnitzer or of the Director of the Circus Knie family for instance can not be published. Yet they confirm their relationship with the artist. In the very beginning I wanted to leave the official website out. But there one can see the portrait of Carla Bruni on the easel and the artist busy painting it. I thought I did a good thing to write some articles in dutch about museums and real heros like teacher Kraczyna during the flood of the river Arno, and in particular the 'Maire' Piero Bargelini, even now called the Maire of the 'alluvione.' Paldopaldino recently wrote to me, that the best would come after my death. Now there is no article written in french, which means that the french Vaudois here will at the most find something in english or dutch. Not all autobiographers exaggerate when talking about their own person. As for the french wikipedia, No french wikipedian helped or answered. So your reactions are absolutely welcome. All I want is an honest well referenced article. But MY highlights and the very best detailed items in the article right NOW, describe my luck to have met wonderful teachers like Kraczyna (my article about him risks disappearing and I don't have the means to add more specifics), Annigoni, Luis Camnitzer and the Circus Knie family. It bothers me is that will be left is an insignificant mentioning of a woman artist, nothing about the incredible ups and downs, for which there is no room in an Encyclopedia. Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 13:10, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Paldopaldino seems never to have been accused of vandalism in English-language Wikipedia.

If the French did not even acknowledge the Musée Jenisch, well, they also don't acknowledge Maison de la photographie Robert Doisneau (in Paris), just as the anglophones didn't until I created a (short, poor) article on it, and just as English Wikipedia doesn't have articles on a large percentage of the museums that I can think of. Any sane, sober francophone is welcome to create a French version of Jenisch House.

Of course French-language Wikipedia is corrected by the French. No, there is no Swiss Wikipedia, just as there is no Canadian or Belgian or Singaporean Wikipedia: Wikipedias are set up (and then flourish or wither) by language not nationality.

Yes, the average person has no interest in art (unless this is sensationalized "art", perhaps models of Michael Jackson or of the artist's sex organs, or skulls encrusted in diamonds, or whatever's the fad of the week), and the prototypical editor of this Wikipedia appears to be a male teenager with a passionate interest in animated TV series or railway lines. I know all this. I also know a lot more about several people about whom I have written rather good articles than these articles say or, in the foreseeable future, will say; because my information comes direct from the biographee to me and it is not published for all to see. It doesn't matter how true or important some incident is; if it's not verifiable then mention of it doesn't belong in Wikipedia. -- Hoary (talk) 14:29, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

You are right, Paldopaldino started and finished the article on french wikipedia, which was then deleted. In English he just gave up. Italian (from the Ticino) is his mother tongue and the Vaudois language ..., I wouldn't dare to comment, so of course french must be french french. Talking about english speaking Singapore: some people seriously asked me whether Switzerland belonged to Europe? And many had NOT heard of a certain Picasso (in 1994). Anyway, let it be, I will not touch the article again. I found your article on the Doisneau photography house interesting. Now for the sake of Annigoni's strong influence on my work since 1969, I would like to see it changed in the article: that he was mostly known for his fight with modern and perishable expressions in art, defending the ancient time resisting techniques of oilpainting. I have also known painters that stood by him, like Antonio and Xavier Bueno and the result was, that this influenced my technique very much, in applying their recipes and since then thanks to him I resisted easy ways out in order to obtain spectacular effects. Of course I don't mean to knock down authentic modern expressionism. I also like anything new, young or strikingly shocking. But I know you are aware how fast and the old and the new become boring. As for the actresses the movie made them well-known, and they appeared everywhere in magazines and papers. Some outfits I even wore myself of JPG >Jean-Paul Gaultier. Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 16:17, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Well, you may wish to edit the Annigoni article. I glanced at it and found that (like so many Wikipedia articles) it's terrible, largely dependent on a single entry (admittedly long and interesting) in somebody's blog. (If you edit it, please do so from published sources. Again, these don't have to be in English, and they don't have to be available on the internet.) -- Hoary (talk) 13:24, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I have a real problem in trying to understand what you told me. Therefore I tried something else, which is, to see, if anything of the actress Emmanuelle Béart is present on en.wikipedia. I found 'Manon des Sources,' a movie that mentions her straight away. This face is as obvious for this part of the world as a Marilyn Monroe in America. But for others Monroe may need references. Please help me with what is obvious or not obvious. Like I think that everybody knows who Abraham Lincoln was, but a portrait of the Spanish painter Sorolla of President Taft puzzled me, I did not know that Taft was also an American president. Sorry sounds really stupid. A few weeks ago Rich Farmbrough helped a lot with details to get this job done. Hope all efforts have not been in vain. Can portraits of persons mentioned-models or fashion houses- on Wiki Commons serve as a reference? Why can pictures on the official website not do (like the picture of Isabelle Adjani). The Sorolla article shows a lot of paintings. It is no problem to send more, but prefer to ask advice first. Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 22:33, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

You seem upset by my possibly facetious comment on one particular sentence in the article. Here is the sentence:

Many self-portraits and portraits of actresses or ‘Haute-Couture’ models of Dior, Jean-Paul Gaultier, Yves Saint Laurent, like Isabelle Adjani playing in 'La Reine Margot', Emmanuelle Béart, from the french movie 'Une femme française', Carla Bruni, topmodel in the 90s of Yves Saint-Laurent and several other fashion-houses.

Except that it's not a sentence. Instead, it's a long, elaborate noun phrase. Should it perhaps start with "Heijermans has painted"? Anyway, it needs a verb.

That matter aside, it's not obvious to me that whom she/you painted is important. Is a portrait mentioned somewhere (or better, discussed)? If so, good -- whether the sitter is the future Mme Sarko or a benefits supervisor. (Incidentally, the fact that the latter sold for a lot of money is irrelevant here.) The more or less famous models of John Deakin are mentioned not (or less) because they're famous but instead because the photographs of them have been discussed. -- Hoary (talk) 13:24, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Hello Hoary, The thing that happens with this article has greatly upset me. I do understand it is your task to eliminate abusing people. Then you also apply the rules of course. I appreciate you have answered, so this I write again to explain the situation further. Paldopaldino is called Paolo Portmann. He lives like me in the village of Saint-Triphon. Now I never intended to work on an article about myself. It has BECOME like an autobiography. Therefore today I will try to get hold of Paolo, tell him I stop this. But now I ask you this serious question. Will you please consider that it has become this situation against my will. This is what happened: the village of Ollon is the Commune to which we in our village belong, like the ski station Villars sur Ollon. In 2008 the Syndic of Ollon sent the in 2009 edited book, written by Pierre Alain Genillard about my life as a painter to a minister of Culture of the Canton. The reason for this book was that I am getting old, and people were becoming interested in my life as an artist. The minister of Culture, madame Catherine Lyon chose to visit our village to celebrate the National Swiss day of the first of August right here, which collected a crowd on the hill near our medieval tower. To thank me the Syndic and the President Alain Mottier offered me the official website, realised by Paolo Portmann. Just have a look at the website Bienvenue a Ollon, you find it there. Myself I have no money. They also asked Paolo Portmann to see me and write a shortened article of what was written by Genillard in the book. Of which th number of ISBN is found in the references of the article now discussed. Paolo is capable to handle a computer well and do this job. I do not remember, that he ever discussed about the conditions, the rules of Wikipedia, he received pictures on a CD from me. Then he let me know by mail while traveling as a STEWARD on Swiss airplanes about the proceedings. I told you he wrote the article in french. There were since february 2011 red tags on it. He did not react, as probably he did not learn the rules maybe because of lack of time. My knowledge of a computer is very recent. I have an old age pension and artists are poor. So here I am after Paolo failed and the french deleted the article, in this mess of autobiography I do not want and besides cannot handle, since I started only in may 2011. Because with the economical situation in Switserland the schedules of planes have changed, Paolo is more gone and in the air than with his family. He said I could better be independent, and also does not master english well. I will in any case ask him to confirm what I tell you. Because I do not deserve the almost audible outcry from your side. I have done nothing dishonest, I often asked for help, we call that a 'parrain' , somebody assisting. Because I cannot become ill with this. But I owe to all the people HERE in this region and to my friends and teachers that trusted me to now deal with Wikipedia. Taking over I DID read about exceptions, and after all, I had helped with translating in english, because my teachers apart from Annigoni were all Americans. And I raised 2 english daughters of my now deceased husband Nils Tellander, the reason I started young with english. Now the situation is absolutely out of hand for me. Just understand I am 75 1/2 and by myself. I have to continue painting each day as one can not stop if this was a mission since I was 15. I hope I can discuss this with other administrators. Because NOW it looked I did something very wrong. The discussion about copyright yes or no I cannot follow any more. I trust Paolo he would never take away from me copyrights or intentionally leave you astray, why should he. It bothers me, you have no idea how the life of an artist goes. Just look at how in France people from that Arles drove van Gogh up the wall. When he had no more money and discovered that his brother Theo suffered financial problems far away in Holland, he reproached himself to lean too much on his brother. People jeered at his red beard, he once threw his paintings towards them from the window. I now talk about van Gogh because in my country, that is a classic example of a Dutch person experiencing a foreign country, apart from the artist he was. I grew up with those 2 names, Rembrandt en van Gogh. Now apparently again in Wikipedia somebody creates another article about van Gogh, i just had a glimpse of that bridge. I painted one like that in the evening in Amsterdam, called the skinny bridge. Now I first must reach Paolo (Paldopaldino). He thinks I can handle this easily, he is absolutely not aware of what is now happening. I expect he will be shocked when he hears and will react as best as he can. Therefore I ask you, to at least review the article as it now has become. There is enormous sacrifice and time in it, I do trust you will consider that lately Rich Farmbrough helped and worked on it. You were just the last person to put tags on the article and I gave 'suite as best as possible. Greetings Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 08:49, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Hello Hoary, still going strong during the hellish weekend. I missed the verb in the fashion chapter, now even if you objected to me working in the article I think I will just start as you said with Heijermans..blahblah. I added references of the movie Une Femme Française. By the way all hell broke loose in some plane somewhere..poor guy did something like making the images public property. I could not care less, as long as he lands safely. I am not particularly a fan but funnily enough Carla went to boarding school and I saw the 13 year old in the jewelry shop of her friend and then recognized that face about 10 years later, when on the catwalk of Yves Saint Laurent. Now about the Circus Knie and their celebration in 2003 of 200-year existence. Somebody adds that I benefitted from a sale, which is all mistaken. As you know, that family has its headquarters in the Swiss Rapperswil. They make a tour through the country every year, and pass close to where I live. I already knew the family, because I was allowed to make sketches during the performance, and thought it a good idea to celebrate with them, and offer a painting I made of one of the main equestrian acts. If only I could include the letter of Directors Frédy and Franco Knie(elephant trainer). They thanked me in that letter, signed it and added that the painting would be given a place in the main Office in Rapperswil. Maybe I have again written in an awkward way about that. Will try to do better, but if you can introduce a better phrase with this info, please go ahead, you are a speed-champion. I would like to add one fashion picture of JPG, and one of Isabelle Adjani, cutting the picture of Queen Margot in half, as the redhead next to her (visible on the painting) is less important. But they got stuck, when I sent them. Seems trouble happens in Wikimedia. Greetings Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 16:24, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

You should limit your edits to the article to the correction of mistakes, the proper sourcing of assertions, rephrasing for clarity, etc. Further, an article on one person is not a suitable place for material about another person. The article on Annigoni is poor, relying on such utterly inadequate sources as somebody's blog; if you can augment or improve either that article or the one on Sorolla on the basis of what Wikipedia regards as reliable sources (not what you believe or even know is true, and not unpublished personal accounts, etc), then you are welcome to do so. ¶ Also, you should attend to this, if you haven't already done so. --Hoary (talk) 00:03, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Hoary, Thus far all is enlightening. Thanks for answering Paldopaldino, he will appreciate it. Now I have a question for you. If all that 'stuff' about masters like Jesus Penarreal pointing towards Sorolla, or Annigoni with his secret recipes passed on the student I was, if that stuff is wiped from the article, then how can a reader explain where the know-how came from? Did a palette with Rowney, Mussini, Maimeri, Blockx or the handmade oil paint of Scheveningen come out of my sleeve as hocus-pocus? When I started painting at 16 I asked myself about van Gogh collecting Hokusai woodcuts, then why when painting his last cornfield with black crows, did he not remember the wisdom of the East ? Do you know that the french painter Nicolas de Staehl jumped out of the window to his death after an article in a newspaper? He was torn between abstract and figurative. Right in the middle of a pure abstract period his last painting was a big black grand piano. I just had no other teacher but Annigoni apart from school time prof painters and my heart aches, when it now looks I will become a SILENT witness of Annigoni's info existing nowhere than in my memory of this sombre person: he received me only because I could draw and this he cherished, the ability of drawing. Otherwise he would send people away. It is generally known that Annigoni prepared his own paint from powders, whether I write about it or not. But today his flake white has been replaced by titanium and zinc white. Both whites are very slow in drying and mixed make other colors not dry evenly. Recently I went to see Claude Monet's exhibit in the foundation of Gianadda, 20 minutes drive away. There were 2 paintings made in the same garden covered with snow, and one was cleaned, the other untouched. The dirty one showed heavy layers of a brownish sheen. No flake white there, yet they were from 1926. Suppose Annigoni's portrait of Queen Elisabeth would resist time that badly. Annigoni died in 1988, almost 60 years after Monet. But Renaissance paintings, the source of Annigoni's technique remain fresh with minuscule cracks hardly yellow or darkened. Why not for once accept the reference for Annigoni's teaching me in fact not with lessons, just a few blows with a hammer. This was Annigoni and it worked like when Anton Geesink jumped on top of the Japanese judo champion. I felt as frustrated, it was not normal but obvious. I hope that you get me. Sorry to have taken your time, but I meant to ask you might add in your way about Annigoni's impact on me until now and instead of chopping my tree into a poplar I am not, you might leave the branches of the article like on a willow tree, so that they may touch the water underneath. Thanks in advance for that glass of water, Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 01:54, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

I think the crux of what you write above is this:

I just had no other teacher but Annigoni apart from school time prof painters and my heart aches, when it now looks I will become a SILENT witness of Annigoni's info existing nowhere than in my memory of this sombre person [...]

English-language Wikipedia has some strange terminology. Strangely, what you're describing would come under the Wikipedia rubric of "original research". And Wikipedia has a simple rule, "No original research". If material about Annigoni has not been published, it may not be used. If it obviously deserves publication, I wish you all the best in the effort to have it published. But Wikipedia is not the place for first publication of this or anything else.

Here is a biographical article that I wrote. It is unexciting. "Sourcing" all its content was a major chore for me and does nothing to add to readability. Since I first created it, I've met the biographee several times. (Here in Tokyo, small exhibitions are numerous and the exhibitor is often present and happy to talk.) In conversation, I learned various things about his work that, as far as I know, haven't been published. I've inserted none of these. If I want to publish my own "research", I must do so elsewhere.

On your other point: en:WP has a (feeble) article on Daidō Moriyama. This tells us that Daidō Moriyama studied photography under Takeji Iwamiya before moving to Tokyo in 1961 to work as an assistant to Eikoh Hosoe. True. It would be permissible, I think, to amplify this slightly: Daidō Moriyama studied photography under Takeji Iwamiya, although Iwamiya's influence would rarely be visible, before [...]. I'm not going to make this change because, although I happen to know it's true, I don't have at hand a published source for the claim. But even a sourced claim made here about Iwamiya's work should be as concise as possible; the normal place to write about it is instead the article about Iwamiya. -- Hoary (talk) 03:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Hoary, I am content with your explanation about No original research. A bit of this experience with Annigoni is already present in the book about me written by Genillard. But you cleared my why's. Thanks also for sending the example of your article on Hiroh Kikai, where you explain that the personal impact for you when talking to him was not a wiki-thing. You call the article unexciting, I liked it. It accentuates the impact of destiny somehow and the simpicity about the how he became a photographer. I did not know, that so many books and other references can exist about a photographers work. For too long it was not even considered an art. In Switzerland there was Marcel Imsand, with little reference. He just had a Nikon and in different times. You are lucky to have been close to this talented Kikai, and yes, a line of what is wiki and what is your personal experience and emotion is another thing you can express in a book of your own.The prize of his Hasselblad 500CM that normally would cost Yen600,000 in 1969, which he bought for half that prize, how much was that then in dollars or other money? Greetings, Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 13:10, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. I hadn't heard of Imsand, but fr:WP does have a short article on him. Yes, you're right, for too long photography wasn't considered art; but now, the pendulum has I think swung too far the other way, as "art" is sometimes used to aggrandize what is, I think, uninteresting either as photography or as art. It's refreshing (for me, at least) when the photographer Rob Hornstra says that he thinks of himself less as a photographer than as a story-teller. The Hasselblad, well, it would have cost more than a year's salary for somebody who'd just graduated from university. I think that this is more meaningful than X dollars or Y euros. Anyway, it was effectively a huge sum. (The Hasselblad was never very popular, of course. By contrast, what amazes me is the number of, say, interchangeable-lens 35mm rangefinder cameras from Canon and Nikon that were sold within Japan in the 1950s; these sold well to amateurs even though they cost the equivalent of two months' salary or more.) -- Hoary (talk) 00:23, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I just got a small request from my son, apparently forgotten, now I do not think where we are now with the article (rather finished) that a small sentence announcing his birth in Lausanne on the 15th of march in 1960 can be needing references! In Switzerland he is my only family. Besides he has even attributed to the Official Website with the logo he for fun created. He added Design by Anyan. As a mother I feel bad, I had not noticed he was missing. Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 18:37, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Richard Fitzwilliams

Hello again Hoary. The above appears to me to be another autobiography. In particular, the numerous contributions of user Dziadzia (see Special:Contributions/Dziadzia) and the few made by GeraldineSN are all edits to the article which is extremely self-promotional. Perhaps you could have a look at it and take any necessary action. - Ipigott (talk) 08:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Taking all the necessary action would, I fear, take my entire weekend. But I've raised a few questions there. -- Hoary (talk) 14:30, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Sensible suggestions. It was one of the strangest articles I have come across, especially the large number of edits by someone who has never done anything else on Wikipedia. - Ipigott (talk) 13:21, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Here's another one. It seems from this that "Kook2011" is well acquainted with Vivek Kumar Pandey. Now the latter is a familiar name; where could I have encountered it before? Ah yes, this editor, active in the bizarre history of the article (under any of numerous titles) on Prem Chand Pandey. -- Hoary (talk) 13:46, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

YGM

Hello, Hoary. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Just in case you don't check it every. bloomin. second. :) --Errant ^(chat!) 00:31, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Swietlan Kraczyna

Hi, I phoned Swietlan Kraczyna. He will correct mistakes and wrong dates in the article Swietl. Kracz. and will provide a list of students. His photos of the Flood of the river Arno in Florence received the prize Fiorino d'Oro and 10 of the 83 photos are kept in the Uffizi Museum of Florence. It is a high award for photography in Italy. His photos are only black/white. I hope he will write, he lacks the time and right now everybody is on holiday. He uses the computer at Syracuse University, where his e-mail address is to, as for some time he doesn't have his own. This to inform, that better information is on the way. Regards, Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 23:09, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

For Your Nortification

Institute of Java and Software Engineering may be a non university type trade organization — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.43.206.156 (talk) 01:54, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

that's what I consider it also. The contributor has over a considerable period of time tried to add a number of articles on not just this, but on related individuals and topics. DGG ( talk ) 03:17, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Adams

Please stop removing my requests for explanatory detail in the body of the article - if you have issues with my requests - discuss on talk - please stop reverting, thanks - Off2riorob (talk) 04:12, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Hoary, nice edit. --Fasttimes68 (talk) 05:50, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad that you like it. But now please lay off the article, even (or indeed especially) if somebody deletes the whole lot. Discussion is the way to go. -- Hoary (talk) 05:57, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree. I just didnt understand why all the markups were done inside the article--Fasttimes68 (talk) 06:03, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

That certainly was bizarre. "It was said" -- that is how you do it. But why ask for information when this same information is already (and I must say laboriously) provided in an adjacent footnote? Also strange is the way that Off2riorob demanded more and more information, then got it, and then deleted the result. Discussion is the way to go (even if all earlier discussion has been blanked). It's quite OK to say on a talk page that such and such a section is a mess, and that if it can be improved in a way that meets certain criteria (brevity among them) then it's OK, but if not then it should be removed. ¶ But enough staring at my screen, I'm off to take a walk in sultry Tokyo. -- Hoary (talk) 06:13, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Meat puppet

I was going to let it go, but that guy has a lot of chutzpah. Is there a process to file a complaint for his accusation? Thanks. --Fasttimes68 (talk) 06:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

I'd drop it. He's already moved on to speculating about at least other user's erections; I think somebody will sort him out in due time. Or perhaps he'll get a long night's sleep (I think he said he was going to bed) and wake refreshed and clear-headed. -- Hoary (talk) 07:09, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

ANI edit-conflict

Hi. You seem to have accidentally removed another editor's post probably due to an edit-conflict. Mathsci (talk) 07:20, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm very sorry about that; I was entirely unaware of the deletion at the time. I've now put the comment back in, of course. -- Hoary (talk) 07:25, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Sockpuppet report

I opened this report regarding OnlyGodTheFatherKnows. In the comments you seemed to have some doubts as to where they were obtaining their information, so I thougnt you would be interested.--Fasttimes68 (talk) 14:02, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for telling me but I don't plan to contribute. I will say though, that the short history of this "investigation" (or appeal for an investigation) is extraordinarily bizarre and confusing. If it was already closed before you arrived, you're probably better off starting something new. Indeed, ignoring a message that something is closed is soon interpreted as misbehavior. -- Hoary (talk) 14:18, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I mignt have done something wrong. Will anyone give me crap if i submit it again?--Fasttimes68 (talk) 14:22, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

I haven't looked to see what other edits you may have made, but probably you can extricate yourself by (1) self-reverting with an informative and mildly apologetic edit summary; (2) reading a lot about how these investigations are launched; (3) writing the whole thing up "offline"; (4) using the preview button and checking and checking and checking; (5) launching it. NB you are perceived as having an agenda here, so you'd better err on the side of caution, modesty, etc. As for me, I've had enough of SA-talk for several lifetimes (or at least for one day) so I'm going to turn the computer off and go to bed. Good night! -- Hoary (talk) 14:30, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Yep

She unfortunately does that . FuFoFuEd (talk) 06:12, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm lost for words. -- Hoary (talk) 08:03, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm not: and DGG ( talk ) 03:23, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

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Dougweller (talk) 06:04, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Please semi

I've been dealing with continual addition of promotional material from SPAs on Michelangelo Baracchi Bonvicini and Atomium Culture -- this has been a longterm project of theirs-- could you semi-protect for a good while, perhaps a year or so--I don't want to do it myself. (Perhaps I'm over-scrupulous.) DGG ( talk ) 03:24, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Ugh, yes, I agree. But I too have erred on the side of caution, sprotecting for just three months. If the silliness restarts at the end of this and I don't notice, please alert me; of course I'll be happy to extend the sprotection. ¶ Um . . . I can't now find the approved way to add the little silver padlock to the top right of the article; could you please do this? -- Hoary (talk) 03:48, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Ban advocation

I thought you should be aware that someone is advocating that you be banned from editing here. Fasttimes68 (talk) 17:45, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

This particular "someone" has a remarkably familiar-looking pattern of editing. How unsurprising. Still, thank you for letting me know. -- Hoary (talk) 05:54, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Barnstar of Recovery
		For your good work on Felice Beato and helping it keep FA status. Brad (talk) 00:50, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Murder of Junko Furuta

Hello Hoary. I hope you are well. Please, would you mind to take a look at this article? There's a lot of unclear information and we need someone who is able to read Japanese (you are, as far as I can remember) and possibly could help us to find reliable sources written in Japanese. The article (as the name suggests) is not about art or photography, it describes a horrible murder committed in Japan in November/January, 1988. I left a comment at Talk:Murder_of_Junko_Furuta#Killers.27_Identities, maybe it could be useful as an introduction. I asked also at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Japan#Murder_of_Junko_Furuta, but my question remains - for the time being - unanswered. ... I don't want to bother you, so feel free to ignore my request if you don't want to work on it. Best regards, and thanks. Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 07:47, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

It does indeed appear that there are books published on the subject. Whether the books are any good is something that I don't know offhand, but they do come from publishers that have put out other material that's worthwhile. Perhaps some level headed person -- one with some degree of serious interest in criminology or psychopathology, not some birdbrain or psychopath -- can be persuaded to read one of the books and deal with the matter intelligently and scrupulously. But me, no, sorry, I'm busy with other matters. -- Hoary (talk) 23:59, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

No problem, you helped a lot and I don't want to force you to read the books. Initially, I planned to delete all the unreferenced claims, but I thought it would be better to ask for help someone who can read Japanese letters. I found the article by chance and I was surprised that it is a free playground for jokers who irresponsibly mislead the readership. The article is now in a better shape and I watch it. Thank you. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 09:46, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

New Page Patrol survey

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Olympus

Can I interest you in writing about the Olympus scandal? I've already lined up many sources to be used in building the article. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 09:32, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry but no. The wonders worked by the invisible hand in that pinnacle of Civilization, Free Enterprise, are far beyond my feeble powers of comprehension. (What, I hear somebody whispering that this was not Free Enterprise but instead white-collar crime. But that's impossible, because this was and is a long-established, famous Japanese company. Shoot the messenger!) -- Hoary (talk) 13:37, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Life beyond?

Are you implying there is Life beyond Wikipedia? Oh, obviously not, it's redlinked. Gerardw (talk) 15:18, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

I think I located some, but it could turn out to be merely a Uri Geller–style hoax. Still investigating..... Hoary (talk) 00:28, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

ICSID Review: Foreign Investment Law Journal

Hi Hoary, it's been a while since we interacted here (and I changed names since). I see you have ascended the lofty heights of adminship, so perhaps I can ask you to use the tools a bit: it looks like this article was created as a cut-and-paste move from ICSID Review, so a history merge seems appropriate. Can you do that? I suggest that this should be done at the shorter title, as we generally only put subtitles if we need a disambiguator (and even then we often use other dabs, I think; note that DGG thinks it should be the other way around, so I leave you the choice :-). Thanks! --Guillaume2303 (talk) 09:24, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm puzzled, in that it appears that it's been a couple of days since the article with the shorter title was turned into a redirect to the one with the longer title: you're asking me to do something that has already been done. OTOH it's past my bedtime and my brain is none too agile. If something does need to be done, I'm afraid that it will have to wait a number of hours if I'm to do it; better to ask somebody else. Good night! -- Hoary (talk) 14:23, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

• You do need sleep! (The shorter article was redirected in December 2010...) I'll ask somebody else, good night! --Guillaume2303 (talk) 14:33, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

• Yup, I did indeed. A "history merge", hmm, I've heard of them but have never investigated. Has anyone taken this up? (He asks, rather hoping for the answer "yes".) -- Hoary (talk) 14:27, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

• The answer is yes, the deed has been done! --Guillaume2303 (talk) 14:55, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

• Splendid, splendid. -- Hoary (talk) 15:00, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Peter Dench

Hi Hoary, are you able to help out with Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Peter_Dench please? ... added at 18:04, 7 January 2012 by Lopifalko

Could and did. I appreciate your wording, too; do be careful in the future (and indeed for the duration of this current AfD). -- Hoary (talk) 04:38, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

PA stuff

Hey there Hoary, thought I'd drop by and say hi. I was driving back from Cleveland Ohio (USA), and was thinking about our conversation about all the PA and CIV stuff and all, and an old memory popped into my head. Some 25 or so years ago when my daughter was maybe 6 or 7 ... she came home one day a bit despondent, and quiet. I asked her what was wrong - and she told me about a neighbor boy (that she kinda liked) at school. She said: "Dad, he's being such a poopey head". Poopey head? ... lmao .. is that not the best PA you've ever heard? Not sure why - but I thought you might get a kick out of that. :) — Ched :  ?  17:29, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh, hello Ched. Well, now that your Hupmobile is safely parked in my garage and I can assure you of a night in my spare bedroom, have a beer. Now, can we please stop talking about poop (eww!) and instead talk discuss Art? (inspiration) And when we're tired of that, let's retire to our respective rooms and forget this interwebs thing and instead read a book. No, don't worry, I have a spare toothbrush for you. -- Hoary (talk) 03:40, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

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WikiProject Invitation

Hello, Hoary/Archive 13. WikiProject British Empire, an outreach effort supporting development of British Empire related articles in Wikipedia, has recently been restarted after a long period of inactivity. As a user who has shown an interest in British Empire related topics we wanted to invite you to join us in developing content relating to the British Empire. If you are interested please add your Username, date and time, and area of interest to the members page here.

Thank you, but I'm not particularly interested in British empire related topics. My participation in that direction is small and recent and prompted merely by the (surprisingly secret) matter of one, empire-irrelevant linguist, the dubiously notable (?) Hans Marchand. -- Hoary (talk) 02:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Chronological order

Hey there. I noticed your edit on Talk: Financial costs of the American Revolutionary War. I am just saying sorry for putting my comment ahead of you. I just really wanted The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick to reply to my comment because he is usually slow to reply. Sometimes not even replying at all: see Talk: British colonisation of Tasmania. OKelly (talk) 01:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry. What did look strange was that you had (presumably by accident) allotted the commas so that it seemed as if my comment was addressed to you. -- Hoary (talk) 01:24, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

As you'll see, at Talk: British colonisation of Tasmania I've provided the reply that Red Hat hasn't. -- Hoary (talk)

Cheers. OKelly (talk) 08:39, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Another reply to your question at the Help desk

(In case you have stopped looking for replies) To tag a photo with questionable permission I would use {{subst:npd}} (which substs to {{di-no permission}}). —teb728 t c 23:58, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Excellent -- {{di-no permission}} is just what I'd been looking for. And then I was diverted by other, image-irrelevant matters, so I never got to use the template that was recommended previously. I'll be using {{di-no permission}} then. Thank you for telling me of this template. -- Hoary (talk) 00:27, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Campaign for "santorum" neologism

Why would you do that, replace a removed external that has not been in the article previously and is clearly contentious and requires discussion ? Youreallycan 11:32, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

You mean, why would I revert your removal from 'Campaign for "santorum" neologism' of the link to the "Spreading Santorum" website? Because it's the centre of the campaign, which has been judged to be of encyclopedic value. Where a campaign has a website and an article here, the link to the website goes into the article. -- Hoary (talk) 11:39, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Its an attack site against a living person that we have an article about - attacking him is its only purpose - why do you think it has been kept out of the article for this long? If you want to include it open a discussion on the talkpage don't blindly revert it back in. Youreallycan 11:41, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

why do you think it has been kept out of the article for this long? Hard for me to guess, so I tried looking. Where is the decision that it should be removed? (I do see this discussion, but it's inconclusive. I may have missed something later.) -- Hoary (talk) 11:49, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Have you gone into the blogger site and read some of the personal attacks posted there? Anyway, if you want to add it, as its previously been discussed and kept out - don't you think its addition now warrants a talkpage discussion? Seems reasonable to me, better than warring it in. Youreallycan 11:53, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

The blogger site: Do you mean spreadingsantorum.com? If so, yes I have, briefly. -- Hoary (talk) 12:55, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

FYI

• Special:Contributions/George583

In case you hadn't seen this...Clearly an attack only account, I've blocked it indeff. --Hu12 (talk) 16:00, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Eh? I see no attack; I merely see fantasy. I'm sorry about this; it deprives a number of people of a good chuckle. But thank you for tipping me off to what you deleted, as I could enjoy reading it. Perhaps I'll add it to the collection on my user page. -- Hoary (talk) 23:58, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

George appealed the block. I had to agree with his appeal. (Actually if the reason for the block had been worded differently, I might well have agreed with it and ignored the likely appeal.) So I unblocked him, restored his message, and responded to that. We'll see. -- Hoary (talk) 10:40, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

I've just remembered/realized that you have been a contributor to the AfD in question. Indeed, you were its instigator. Other than for extraordinary reasons (libel, blatant copyright violation, etc), you should not delete the comment of somebody who disagrees with the position you've taken in an AfD. If it's blazingly obvious that the comment merits deletion, then say so at WP:AN/I or wherever, and somebody uninvolved will agree and carry out the appropriate administrative chores. -- Hoary (talk) 11:57, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

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Yunshui 雲‍水 23:01, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

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MSU Interview

Dear Hoary,

My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community HERE, were it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.

So a few things about the interviews:

• Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
• Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
• All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
• All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
• The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.

Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name HERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) 18:34, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Izu Dancer

I added some references to The Izu Dancer and removed the tag (since it's no longer true). Why don't you add some references, if you have them, for the film adaptations? Timothy Perper (talk) 17:09, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Time and energy willing, I'll try to do just that. In the meantime, thank you for working on it. -- Hoary (talk) 01:04, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Great! Maybe there's some stuff hidden on the Wiki entry for the TV show? Timothy Perper (talk) 14:36, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't quite follow. ¶ This article lists five TV shows. Like the huge majority of ja:WP, it's completely unsourced. However, somebody with a bit of time and patience could look up the names it gives in a newspaper database. (That's what I did today for the films; I struck lucky with one article that very briefly described all of them.) I rarely have access to the database that I used or any of those for alternatives to Asahi. -- Hoary (talk) 14:49, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

My turn to say "sorry" -- I wasn't clear. I mean this article, here on Wiki: Izu no odoriko (1993 TV drama) -- it gives some details about the show airing on Tokyo TV in the early 1990s -- maybe some hunting around in Jp newspapers and stuff might turn up some information. Hope that's clearer. Timothy Perper (talk) 18:01, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Ah. It has no sourcing whatever and was even titled with a spurious extra mora (Izu no odorikko) when I discovered it the other day, so I wouldn't trust it at all. Again, the ja-WP article on the story lists the TV adaptation (though does so without a source); it's the names as they appear in Japanese that will be a lot easier to google. Incidentally, I'm not sure that you are familiar with the (publicly available) internet in Japanese -- if you are, my apologies for insulting your knowledge/intelligence! -- but it's very feeble compared with what's in English. There's tons of mere bloggery, but it's hard to find reliable sources. For subjects such as this, I've learned not to bother with it and instead to wait until I'm in a library that's paid for a subscription to the database of one or more of the newspapers. (And even these newspaper databases are disappointing, often merely supplying the publication details of articles but not the articles themselves.) Of course there's also a huge industry of books about pop culture, but for me that would mean going to a different library or [shudder!] paying my own money for used copies. ¶ (My additional hurdle is minimal interest in the content of Japanese television.) -- Hoary (talk) 01:53, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

My sympathies, really. I detest that kind of off-the-top-of-the-head, make-it-up-as-you-go bloggery and egonet stuff. OK, so we can let this one wait until something surfaces somewhere. We've made quite a dent in this article as it is. Timothy Perper (talk) 02:45, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually a large minority of Japanese bloggery appears to have been done very scrupulously. It's imaginable too that some of the blogs demonstrably have a good reputation for fact-checking, a reputation would actually render them usable as RS. But I don't know about this sort of thing. -- Hoary (talk) 03:00, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Neither do I, so I adopt a wait-and-see attitude. If proven, great; if not, oh well... Timothy Perper (talk) 13:04, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

I've been trying to locate information about the first (Seidensticker) translation. This is a real mess. The Atlantic archives give January 1955 as the publication date; a book published by Tuttle gives December 1954; and an article in the Japan Times gives 1955, no month, as the pub date. The only sources I've found so far for 1952 or 1958 don't give sources. If truth were established by consensus, I'd guess early 1955, but truth isn't established by consensus since these people copy from each other.

Here are the references.

The Atlantic archives: date to Jan 1955: http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/theatlantic/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=Yasunari+Kawabata&type=current&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=6&frommonth=11&fromday=1&fromyear=1950&tomonth=02&today=28&toyear=1959&By=&Title=This gives publication date as January 1955, page 108.

Tuttle book, date to Dec. 1954: http://books.google.com/books?id=MuYMT5Ar1HMC&pg=PA3&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

Japan Times, date to 1955: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/fb20000926dr.html

Whaddya think?

Timothy Perper (talk) 13:59, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

How about this change to the sentence already in the article:

The short story was first translated into English by Edward Seidensticker and published in an abridged form under the title, "The Izu Dancer," in The Atlantic Monthly in 1955.<ref>A variety of dates from 1952 to 1958 can be found on the web, but the archives of the Atlantic give a publication date of January 1955. http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/theatlantic/results.html?st=advanced&QryTxt=Yasunari+Kawabata&type=current&sortby=REVERSE_CHRON&datetype=6&frommonth=11&fromday=1&fromyear=1950&tomonth=02&today=28&toyear=1959&By=&Title= </ref>

Timothy Perper (talk) 14:09, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that seems good. -- Hoary (talk) 14:14, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Great. It's going in. Timothy Perper (talk) 14:18, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

IIU

FTR, I'm involved. Not only have I edited the article on and off over two years' time, but today I full-protected the redirect and blocked the latest SPA. --Orlady (talk) 15:41, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe I was too hesitant. Anyway, thank you for this. -- Hoary (talk) 23:39, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Formerly blocked IP is at it again

This formerly blocked IP:

• 76.106.194.135 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

is at it again as:

• Mr. J. Lane (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

He's a newbie, young, seems to have an overly-inflated view of his own competence, and is engaged in reviling other editors, OR, synthesis, and edit warring at Occupy Wall Street. A stern warning and some advice from you as the blocking admin might be in order. Maybe he can be saved, and maybe not. -- Brangifer (talk) 22:20, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

It appears that a thread has been started here:

• AN/I thread

Brangifer (talk) 22:25, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

What a pickle I woke up to! But thanks for alerting me to it (and for your kind words somewhere on a sentence of mine). -- Hoary (talk) 02:16, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

• Hoary, thanks for your remarks at ANI. I've run into Ian.thomson before and have had no complaints, but this was a bit unseemly. Happy days, Drmies (talk) 02:08, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
  • As for me, I have a terrible memory for usernames. I think I've seen Ian.thomson's before but have no idea where. ¶ I can understand how one can sleepily add a template that invites somebody to do the impossible, and I don't condemn this; I'm surprised when the the adder then blames the template and does nothing to fix the matter. ¶ Now, if J. Lane and other usernames and an IP number who all seem closely related are blocked indefinitely, there'll be no tears from me. But that's a different matter. Though then again it may be related: when blocking somebody indefinitely, one should be, and should be seen to be, scrupulously fair. -- Hoary (talk) 02:16, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Sources issue in biographies of living persons

Hi You have posted a {{BLP unsourced section|date=February 2012}} on the "selected exhibitions" section of an article I just had updated on this page I later added the additional sources. Can you see if these are satisfactory so that the BLP can be removed?

More widely, the main reason if I'm writing to you is not specifically this page, it is the issue of sources in this kind of sections (publications / exhibitions etc. of artists, writers, filmmakers, etc.). I have been writing several biographies of (mainly) Lebanese artists, being inspired by other good articles in Wikipedia, and trying to be as adequate as possible in citing sources. In most of the articles I found, there were always sources cited in the biographic notice, but lists of exhibitions or publications were merely sourced (as this kind of information is usually easily verifiable and can hardly by biased...) So, I wished to have your opinion about it... Thanks :-) (Lea Sarraf (talk) 17:43, 18 March 2012 (UTC))

Hello and thank you for asking. In future, though, if a section of an article has an "unreferenced" template, and you've added sources that are unlikely to be questioned, you're free to remove the template. Though it's better to hold off if there's some dispute in the talk page.

I'm painfully aware that sourcing lists of exhibitions (other than to the exhibitor) is tedious work. My biggest job of this kind was this one: so exhausting that I had no stamina left for what I'd originally intended, improving the text of the article. (Incidentally, I didn't touch the "needs additional sources" template at the top, for my own amusement, given that it had over eighty discrete footnotes by the time I left it. Anyone else was and is welcome to remove it.)

I don't quite understand your comment lists of exhibitions or publications were merely sourced (as this kind of information is usually easily verifiable and can hardly [be] biased...). "Merely sourced"?

Actually what seems normal is for the websites of individual galleries that have exhibited somebody's work to copy lists of earlier exhibitions from other galleries or the exhibitor, and to paste them credulously and without any check. Or anyway this to me is the most obvious explanation of the phenomenon of identical spelling mistakes (some of them rather obvious) in the lists of different exhibitors.

It's good that you're writing up Lebanese artists. Please keep going. One request, though: Please don't put lists in newest-to-oldest order. Instead, where a chronological order is appropriate, from oldest at the top to newest at the bottom. -- Hoary (talk) 04:42, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for all this invaluable information and advice. Your work is quite impressing! (Lea Sarraf (talk) 11:14, 24 March 2012 (UTC))

Frank Worth

Hello! I see that you commented at the AfD discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frank worth. That article has now been completely rewritten, just in case you want to take a second look at it. Thanks. --MelanieN (talk) 02:34, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

John Searle

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Derrida criticism to Searle". Thank you. --Hibrido Mutante (talk) 21:22, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Obama

Hi. I have read your latest response on the Obama talk page and wanted to let you know that I have responded to it. Look forward to further discussion.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.2.129.220 (talk) 19:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Can you help?

Hi, Hoary. Can you lend some expertise and ideas to the page I'm now editing on Baku (spirit)? Over the years, I've been the only person who has systematically edited the page, adding most of the current references, plus rewriting. At the moment, another editor -- an interesting artist with some rather traditional ideas about Japanese folklore -- has raised a number of issues. We could use another set of eyes and lenses. Thanks! Timothy Perper (talk) 14:24, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Expertise, no, sorry. (To me, Baku is on the Caspian sea.) But I'll take a look and see if there's something I can do. -- Hoary (talk) 14:54, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Expertise? This is Wikipedia, man, who cares about expertise? I shouldn't be cynical -- what me, cynical? -- or maybe it'd be better to say "dubious" about issues of expertise on Wiki. Wiki needs all the help it can get, including this article. I added a bunch of references ever since 2007, and have removed a fair amount of unsourced opinion as well. What would help now -- there's no big hurry about it -- is a solid reference to historical changes in the portrayal of the baku; probably something exists in Japanese, and I asked about this on a manga/anime listserve I'm on, so who knows -- maybe something useful will surface. Thanks again, and I hope there's more you can do! Timothy Perper (talk) 15:32, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, OK, I'll take a look. But not now. In the meantime, here's something for you. Take a look at this page. It's a list of articles being rewritten by students of the University of Toronto, which I'd thought was a real university, where people have to read, think, write, read what they've written, and then rethink and rewrite before handing in assignments. The sample of listed articles I've looked at is small and very possibly unrepresentative, but every time the well-intentioned students have screwed things up terribly. -- Hoary (talk) 15:46, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Good grief. Some of these topics would challenge a professional writer, like the Ontario Hydro piece! I'm glad that I am not their teacher or supervisor. I also wonder what the students will discover about such things as "point of view" -- it probably won't be what Wikipedia wants! This is the blind leading the blind. Timothy Perper (talk) 22:41, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

If I see correctly, one student group chose a bio of their teacher as their assignment... --Guillaume2303 (talk) 10:22, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

You see correctly. And it's a bio that -- at least as I read it there -- is unadulterated by any trace of independent sourcing. -- Hoary (talk) 11:57, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Just see that it's already live after a copy-paste move... May need a history merge, although I don't see how this would survive AFD... --Guillaume2303 (talk) 12:54, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Feel free to send it to AfD. As you'll see, I made a first stab at improving it. But having done that, I wondered why I'd bothered. Couldn't the kids at least write decently? Consider this: This study deals with the relationship between relevant information and immigrants. This study shows a plethora of surveys that deal exclusively with this issue. This study explores the complexity of this situation and offers justifications as to why problems occur in the first place. When I was a first-year undergrad, my first drafts were better than that. -- Hoary (talk) 13:13, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

• I've put a note on their discussion page, probably a bit more bitey than I should have, but I waited several hours to cool down and this was the best I could come up with... That a student (presumably) would come up with "Hey, I have this great idea! Let's make a bio of our teacher!!" is weird enough. That the teacher would agree to it is even weirder... --Guillaume2303 (talk) 18:23, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Johannes Grenzfurthner (2nd nomination)

Hi, this AfD could probably use some input from someone with your expertise. Cheers! --Guillaume2303 (talk) 09:39, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I'd never heard of him, but I wouldn't expect to have done so. I do have a copy of Pranks, but not of its second volume. So much for my "expertise". ¶ Yes, the article looks pretty ropy to me, but then again I don't (yet) find the deletion arguments persuasive. Still thinking about this one. -- Hoary (talk) 12:49, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

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Happy Adminship Anniversary

Wishing Hoary a very happy adminship anniversary on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Armbrust, B.Ed. ^{Let's talk}_{about my edits?} 23:12, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Dispute resolution survey

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Kevin Ou

Ok, I have wielded my blade and updated the tags and left a note on talk. Notability is in question, could go to AfD as you said. Let me know if you need more help. Cheers!-- — Keithbob • Talk • 15:10, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Final vote on which image to use

There's a final vote on which image to use a WikiProject Japan. It's about to close. As you voted in the original poll, you might be interested in having your final say. CüRlyTüRkey^Talk_Contribs 06:05, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

If a vandal is going to insult you...

...you want it to be through a Simpsons quote. --Closedmouth (talk) 11:06, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the tip. I'd forgotten all about him. What a strange person he is! Not quite knowing what to do, I've passed the word along. -- Hoary (talk) 13:42, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

David Bailey (photographer) deserves better

I've just come across this article after reading about Bailey's current art exhibition in London: see here. It seems to me such an eminent English photographer deserves a far better biography on Wikipedia. Given your own interest, perhaps you could contribute - or encourage some other Wikipedians to step in. I'll try to get back to it myself it due course but am pretty tied up with other work at the moment. – Ipigott (talk) 09:08, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

He certainly deserves a better article, yes. He is (or was) a remarkable fashion photographer, and no doubt there's much more about him that's worthwhile and available in accessible "RS"es. But I don't have much time for any WP activity, and the time that I do have I'd really prefer to spend on photographers whose work is of more interest to me. Hmm. -- Hoary (talk) 06:00, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Well maybe I'll get around to it myself one of these days although I keep getting bogged down in more and more articles outside my main areas of interest. I'll put something on the talk page in the hope that someone who's watching the article (if anyone is!) will come in and help. Hope you had a good time with the Ruskies - or whoever they were. - Ipigott (talk) 17:28, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Belaruskies, and those west and north thereof. And yes, I have a photo book from Belarus by somebody who richly merits an article, but coverage of whom is, unfortunately for me, mostly in Russian, Belarusian, and German (example). If you appreciate wit in contemporary art (not merely photography) and have the good fortune to have access to a cosmopolitan bookstore, then try this modestly-priced survey of work by the same man. ¶ As for Bailey, I think of his more-or-less contemporaries and Don McCullin immediately comes to mind. An outstanding photographer whose work does happen to interest me and whose article is predictably dreadful. -- Hoary (talk) 00:31, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

He certainly does deserve better, brought home to me very clearly now that I've read this. -- Hoary (talk) 00:46, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Gladwell

Thanks for the work on Gladwell. Best wishes Span (talk) 15:19, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Looks like I didn't have to wait that long for some Gladwell criticism action. Lovin ' it. 50.47.119.246 (talk) 06:22, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

You can add MSNBC to the growing list of SHAME exposure. The Gladwell bio will reflect his corporate whoredom. It's just a matter of time. added at 22:11, 21 June 2012‎ by 50.47.119.246 (talk)

M. Lupis M.P. di S. Margherita‎

See this; he won't stop. Maybe time to salt that one, too? --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 23:42, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the heads-up. I've deleted and salted it. -- Hoary (talk) 00:13, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Any time. Thanks for the help. I'll keep an eye out for it on newpage patrol and let you know if it shows up again. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 01:53, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

The odd thing about the article is that I sense a certain minor notability (even in the odd sense in which Wikipedia uses the word) about the subject, an article about whom is prevented by the decision to ignore our house rules and also to add peculiarly silly little ingredients. I bring you this specimen: Recently, his family intermarried with British Royalty <ref>[[Lady_Nicholas_Windsor]]</ref>. Now, where might the article-worthiness of this Wikipedia-articled Lady_Nicholas_Windsor reside? Nowhere that I can see, except that She has [...] written for The Tatler where she is a contributing editor and for Vogue USA <ref name="vogue">[http://www.vogue.com/vogue-daily/article/my-royal-wedding-paola-de-frankopan-remembers-her-own-marriage-into-the-british-royal-family/]</ref> She has published and [sic] introduction to the history of the Sanctuary of Trsat 'Trsatska Sveta Kuča', in Croatian. Very minor stuff indeed. Another one for AfD? -- Gentleman Hoary (talk) 02:20, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Just a further FYI - he's keeping a copy of the article in his sandbox, the better to recreate it apace, I imagine. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 01:58, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, let's see. I think we might start by commenting out the categories. -- Hoary (talk) 02:20, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Commented out. Irrelevant, but: If you have a few minutes free, take a look at this and what's below about the article on the popular writer Malcolm Gladwell. Feel free to contribute there, and of course to disagree with me! -- Hoary (talk) 02:27, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Spam blacklisting

Thank you for blacklisting a spam at the Tenga article. The same IP user is trying to do it again, this time with a Facebook page. (This time a bot reverted it within 64 minutes.) Could you blacklist this URL also? Thank you. --朝彦 (Asahiko) (talk) 01:38, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Done. -- Hoary (talk) 13:13, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! --朝彦 (Asahiko) (talk) 03:50, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Line breaks for hyphenated words

Hello Hoary. Sometime since we've been in touch but I see you are still going strong. As you not only seem interested in language but also have lots of Wikipedia experience, I thought I would contact you on something I have recently observed in Wikipedia articles which I believe ought to be fixed. It's about the line breaks which occur automatically when hyphenated words come at a point in a sentence when a line break is needed (such as the breaking of Pont-Aven in a recent article I wrote on Henri Delavallée). The problem is that recently I have observed breaks when the hyphen is incorrectly wrapped over to the next line, for example:

self

-esteem

instead of (the correct)

self-

esteem

The choice of whether the hyphen should appear on the next line or not seems to be based simply on the number of characters per line rather than on any rules. You can perhaps see the effects better in the examples here but of course it all depends on the screen display you are using. I would have thought that with almost 4 million articles in English, a problem like this would have been resolved once and for all but apparently not. Any ideas about where to go to have it fixed? We should not be setting bad examples for non-native English speakers. - Ipigott (talk) 14:54, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Aha, I'm still "going strong" -- yes, I like that: it suggests that although an actuary would suggest betting that I'd already be pushing up daisies, I still manage to press keys on my 'puter. ¶ I look at your sandbox and all seems well. I squeeze the right-hand side inwards, forcing wrapping of the text to occur elsewhere, and all still looks well. A reason may be that the particular browser I happen to be using now (Iceweasel 3.5.16) treats regular hyphens as non-breaking hyphens. (If it can't fit the whole of "self-esteem" on one line, it will move the whole to the next line.) Later today I'll try with different browsers. But really, this seems to me to be a browser problem, not a Wikipedia problem. (Which browsers have you used?) -- Hoary (talk) 22:59, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I hadn't considered the browser. I was in fact using Internet Explorer 9 as I believe it is the most widely used browser and I like to see what the majority of other users are likely to see. I was indeed unable to reproduce the problem with Firefox - so it could well be connected to the browser. Strangely, the examples in my sandbox now display correctly although I have not changed anything and the computer has been running non-stop. However, with IE9 the problem is still occurring in the Henri Delavallée article in the sentence "In 1894, he met Paul Gauguin in Pont-Aven." I can, of course, get it to display correctly by changing the character size (Ctrl C and turning the mouse wheel). The funny thing is that I can't remember experiencing the problem before. But someone, somewhere seems to be working on it or the sandbox display would not have changed. Perhaps tomorrow even the Delavallée article will display correctly. But in any case, I would have thought Wikipedia could sort out the problem so that whatever the browsers try to do, the Wikipedia display will be correct. - Ipigott (talk) 07:00, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I was busier today than I'd expected and I'll be too busy for the next 20 hours or so to play around with different browsers. But browsers often do different things, and I am sure that it is not the job of any website designer to make a design that will work with all browsers, even all widely used browsers. Instead, one should design according to W3C's recommendations where these (i) are more or less supported by most browsers in common use and (ii) don't fail catastrophically with any browser that's hard to avoid. -- Hoary (talk) 09:42, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Asking first before shooting

It appears that 107.6.124.27, which has been commenting on you know who's talk page has been blocked because that IP address is a proxy. Please be aware of this new behavior. I was under the impression that it is permissible to strike/revert comments from such users. Is this correct? Fasttimes68 (talk) 21:12, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

ARMYbling (talk) 13:18, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Hello and goodbye too, "ARMYbling". -- Hoary (talk) 23:33, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Your AN3 report

Hello Hoary. About WP:AN3#Sandra Fluke reported by User:Hoary (Result: ). This is not in the usual form of requests to WP:AN3. Would you please give some thought to withdrawing the report? If not, can be more specific as to the edit warring and the individuals who you think need admin action. At first glance, the talk page seems to be on its way to reaching a conclusion. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 16:35, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Ed, thank you for the thoughtful and polite form of your request. I've given some thought to removing my request, and decline to do so. The top of WP:AN/I has a (normally hidden/collapsed) section asking people contemplating a post to ask themselves whether that is the most appropriate page in which to do so. It reads in part (after markup-stripping): To report edit warring, see the administrators' edit warring noticeboard. And the name of WP:AN3 ends not "Edit warriors" but "Edit warring". Posting a note there about general edit warring, rather than about one or more edit warriors, indeed seemed unconventional, but it also seemed, and seems, legitimate. You are of course welcome to mark the item as "resolved" or whatever. -- Hoary (talk) 00:58, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Re: BLP

Thanks for your research. Please feel free to contribute to the article as you see fit. More knowledgeable and balanced editors like you are needed on these topics which are infested with agenda-driven POV pushers. I personally think the twitter part, is also questionable, given National Post's history on these kind of issues, and should be at least attributed to them, if not shortened or removed. Kurdo777 (talk) 10:01, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

What do you think of the fact that Roland Elliott Brown, doesn't even have a Wikipedia article, yet almost 30% of Majd's article, who is a clearly a more notable individual, is devoted to one negative review of him by Brown, because it was cherry-picked by a sympathetic editor to Brown's positions. Does this sound right to you as far as Wikipedia polices are concerned? I tried to put them all in one place, for proper attribution. But I still think the article has a serious case WP:COAT. Kurdo777 (talk) 10:58, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Your question seems to assume that the review by Brown is negative. I didn't find it so. But whether or not the review is negative, yes, it would be good to cite some other sources. If you have some reliable ones, please feel free to cite them. -- Hoary (talk) 12:17, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

How do you build an article?

Hoary, I recently created the following stub: Vanishing Spray. Sadly it doesn't make things actually vanish. Notwithstanding and if you care too, would you edit the article a bit? I am curious to see how it would look after you applied your touch. Fasttimes68 (talk) 17:06, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm hamstrung by my near total ignorance of sport(s), but anyway I had a bash. This bit is interesting: it disappears entirely within 45 seconds with no adverse effect to the playing surface. Its sellers would say that, I suppose. But just what is the stuff (none of the cited sources says), and what's the estimate of its effect, not from marketing people but from horticulturalists (if that's the right word) or chemists? -- Hoary (talk) 00:41, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Very nice! How did you find that new source? I searched high and low and couldn't find a thing in the product itself, other than the weight of the can. Fasttimes68 (talk) 17:54, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Might as well continue this conversation here Fasttimes68 (talk) 23:27, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I think I found it by gurgling; maybe by gurgle-newsing rather than simple gurgling, but I now forget. -- Hoary (talk) 06:05, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Please have a look

Here's a proposed change to the Majd article I want to make sure is OK with recent editors (follows BLP and all) --BoogaLouie (talk) 15:55, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

What do we get for $10?

Stanley Kubrick had an answer for this in Full Metal Jacket. You strike me as a man whose choice in cinema might be a bit more discriminating then the typical Hollywood offerings, so I suspect you may have seen this film and might understand the reference. It would have been money better well spent. Fasttimes68 (talk) 05:45, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Ah, no, I missed it. I enjoyed The Killing and Paths of Glory, but after a couple of disappointments stopped bothering to see his new films as they came out. -- Hoary (talk) 06:04, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Too bad he went out on such a bad note with Eyes Wide Shut. Make a mental note to see FMJ if you liked PoG. Fasttimes68 (talk) 06:15, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Hoary. You have new messages at Guerillero's talk page.
Message added 19:22, 5 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Guerillero | My Talk 19:22, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Abominations

I was too late to remove the rant from Bias - luckily someone else took care of it - but I appreciated the reference :) –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:35, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Swordless samurai, Tim Clark (author) etc.

I'm dropping a note to you since you added the "notability" to The Swordless Samurai in March 2009. Just to notify that I have turned this page into a redirect to Tim Clark (author). I also put an autobiography tag on the Tim Clark page and added a note to the talk page to justify that. JoshuSasori (talk) 01:46, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Well done, and thank you for telling me about it. Ah, books about "wisdom". I have many books, but curiously none of them has "wisdom" (or indeed "Wisden") in its title. ¶ I'm particularly puzzled by this bit: became a minor bestseller in Indonesia. My admittedly caffeine-challenged brain can't quite get around the concept of the minorly superlative. ("Sold moderately well in Indonesia", perhaps?) -- Hoary (talk) 03:13, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

There was no response by anyone, so I sent the article to Articles for Deletion. JoshuSasori (talk) 04:54, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Arbitration

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Rush Limbaugh–Sandra Fluke controversy and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for Arbitration;
• Wikipedia:Arbitration guide.

Thanks,

Deletion review for Sandra Fluke

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Sandra Fluke. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Casprings (talk) 03:17, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)

Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page.

Steven Zhang's Fellowship Slideshow

In this issue:

• Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
• Research: The most recent DR data
• Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
• Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
• DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
• Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
• Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?

Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->

--The Olive Branch 19:07, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Help! As you are not an involved admin (Edit req)

Please take a look at the #13 request. I think it's a simple mistake. If you agree with me, correction please. Thank you. Oda Mari (talk) 09:37, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry Mari, I took an unannounced break from WP. Now I'm back. Although I'll take it slow for a couple more weeks at least, I'll be checking this talk page of mine and I'll try to respond to reasonable pleas for help (like this one of yours). I've also responded here. -- Hoary (talk) 08:01, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply on the article talk page. But...the problem has not been fixed yet. 気がつかなかった？ 休暇ボケ？ The problem I'm talking about is this one. OP wrote "2)...«Zenji and Hanako Tatsushirō» to «Zenji and Hanako Koga», " and see my suggestion. Because of the pre-Meiji name order, some editor mistook Tatsushirō as family name. So it should be fixed. わかった？ The another reason I asked you to fix the mistake was you understand Japanese and Japanese names だったのに。 Now, fix it please. Oda Mari (talk) 10:29, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Hope your break was a enjoyable one. Oda Mari (talk) 10:44, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Ah, you're assuming that I looked at the article. I didn't. I looked at it, there was indeed a problem, and so I fixed the problem. ¶ And my break? I was merely busy with other, WP-irrelevant matters. (I still am.) ¶ A rarity: a public comment on the matter that's not idiotic. Very welcome. -- Hoary (talk) 13:24, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the edit. I like your version. Japan does not retaliate the way China has been doing, you know. Murakami's comment was not needed. Fortunately or not, I've been deeply involved in the article. It was hard a year ago with this. Well, I always think China's claim is いちゃもん/いいがかり, but could not find the equivalent in en. What would you translate the ja word? Oda Mari (talk) 16:14, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Talk:James Eagan Holmes

I have had to suppress a great deal of unsourced libelous information at Talk:James Eagan Holmes which violates WP:BLP. I realize this is in contradiction to your edits. I have done the best I can, but unavoidably other material has also been lost. User:Fred Bauder Talk 02:57, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me. (Actually I'd already noticed.) Of course I have no objection whatever to your deletions. -- Hoary (talk) 03:29, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Pictures for biographies of living French executives

Hello,

I am presently writing biographies of top notch French executives. I would like to add a picture of them but do not know exactly how to deal with the law.

Jean-Paul Herteman ; I uploaded a picture of him on Commons, but I am afraid it won't work.

Henri Martre

Alain Bugat

Would you be so kind as to give me some tips in order not to infringe the US law ?

Thanks in advance for your help. Euroflux (talk) 17:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

I suppose that you are referring to commons:File:Herteman.jpg. This is described as coming from this page of journaldunet.com. The page does not say anything about copyright, and therefore its content must be presumed to be [conventionally] copyright. No, it's worse than that: There's a conspicuous link at the foot of the page to this page about legal issues. The latter page says Tous les droits des auteurs des Oeuvres protégées reproduites et communiquées sur ce site, sont réservés. Sauf autorisation, toute utilisation des Oeuvres autres que la reproduction et la consultation individuelles et privées sont interdites. This obviously contradicts any claim of copyleft (such as Creative Commons or GFDL), and of course also makes it very clear that the photograph is not in the public domain.

You may upload a photograph that is in the public domain or that is copyleft. To be in the public domain, a photo of a living person must have been explicitly donated to the public domain by the person who would normally hold the copyright. (The copyright holder must explicitly waive his or her copyright.) To be copyleft (whether CC or GFDL), such a license must be explicitly attached by the copyright holder.

Note that there are different kinds of CC license, and some are not usable for Wikimedia Commons or Wikipedia.

You may not claim "fair use" for the photograph of a living person.

The normal way for photos of people like this to be added is for Wikipedia editors to take the photos themselves, and then either donate them to the public domain or copyleft them. -- 13:30, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Elaboration: In en:Wikipedia, you may not claim "fair use" for the photograph of a living person; in Commons, you may not claim it for any image. -- Hoary (talk) 13:25, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Second language acquisition

I have proposed that Category:Second language acquisition be renamed to Category:Second-language acquisition, and I am notifying you because you either participated in discussions about the hyphenation of "second(-)language acquisition" on the article's talk page, or because you participated in the previous CfD discussion. I would be grateful if you could give your opinion on the latest discussion, which you can find at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 November 10#Category:Second language acquisition. Thank you for your time. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{(have a chat)} 03:13, 10 November 2012 (UTC)