Talk:VShojo

Proposed merge of Projekt Melody into VShojo

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was "no consensus". Jackdude101 ^talk cont 15:55, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

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I think these two articles are only marginally notable on their own, but combining them would provide something more solid. While Melody does have a history that predates the agency, she's a part of it now, and since there are no reliable sources attesting to anything she does or is outside of the purview of her work, I feel that merging would be sensible, not unlike many other commercial products that are described in a section on their company's page. Ipatrol (talk) 15:47, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

A merge would be ill-advised. Melody's article shows the sourcing about her before VShojo was rather strong, with less about her in the context of the agency. For a merge to be plausible, I would expect to see the opposite trend. This is not analogous to a company and a product for the same reason: sources show Melody is notable for being the first successful "virtual camgirl", which is an aspect that is played down in the context of her association with VShojo, instead of played up. Based on the sources, Melody seems solidly notable, while VShojo is marginally notable. — Goszei (talk) 16:09, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Goszei. Merging these two articles would be inappropriate. The vast majority of the historical content in the Projekt Melody article happened before the debut of VShojo. Furthermore, although the VShojo article is marginally notable (though notable in general nonetheless), the Projekt Melody article, with every piece of content referenced with multiple reliable sources (Vice Media and Wired (magazine), among others), is objectively notable. As far as I know, she's the only non-Japanese VTuber to be notable enough to have her own Wikipedia article. Having the two articles separate would also be beneficial in the future, if and when any of the other VShojo members become notable enough to have their own articles. In this scenario, if the VShojo article content were merged with the Projekt Melody article, a lot of that content would have to be repeated in the new VShojo member articles, creating redundancy. Keep them separate. Jackdude101 ^talk cont 18:16, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

I mean, I'm proposing a merge largely as an alternative to AFD, which is the only other place I can see this going. To say the other VShojo members may have their own articles in the future is highly speculative. Notability must be considered solely with respect to how things are now. Making them sections on the VShojo page avoids having to duplicate content at all. This is a fairly durable solution even if members are added, and even if the members accumulate sourceable details. In fact, WP:SIZESPLIT suggests a page of this size is worth considering for a merger. Since it would not make sense to merge VShojo into Projekt Melody, that leaves the other way around. --Ipatrol (talk) 04:39, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Recent edits of speculation

@Ezlo Jeslan: As current events unfold, now is a good reminder that Wikipedia is not a bulletin board. Your recent edits amount to speculation on your part, none of which is verifiably sourced by approved third-parties. Please only make edits of the facts available and remove the speculation. --WashuOtaku (talk) 03:58, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

I have only included the facts available, which are supported by the primary sources used for each part. Speculation would be to say that the members have left the company, which due to a lack of official announcement would be false as of now. However, pointing out that they have removed the branding, but that no update on their membership has been made, would be factual and match up with sources. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 04:09, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

Speculation is adding notes to nearly each talent saying "UnclearStatus." Speculation is adding verbiage that you do not know if they are removing tags because of solidarity or leaving the company. This is all your opinion and considered original research (WP:OR). This is why I have been reverting your edits and I strongly advise you to please revert your own edits and just wait till the facts are available and from valid third-party sources. --WashuOtaku (talk) 04:29, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

How would you phrase it then? Genuinely asking, because removing branding on this scale is pretty noteworthy. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 04:34, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

I would revert the edits and simply wait till new information comes to light. Editors should not read into things. --WashuOtaku (talk) 04:39, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

just edited tweet link to cite tweet template.

i dont think all tweet need to be there so feel free to delete unsuitable tweet.

All members of the company except for Melody would subsequently remove mentions of VShojo from their social media profiles without confirmation of their departures from the company...

i replace it with 3 names from siliconera source for now Lokiretro (talk) 12:15, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. While Wikipedia allows for some first-party sources, they are considered non-independent sources; third-party sources are preferred as they are independent to the subject, meaning more objective. If no third-party source is yet available, they should flag it so another editor can replace first-party source once it becomes available. --WashuOtaku (talk) 14:13, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

Talent reactions

There is a section where there are just reactions from the other talent, most of which is just giving support. While I would prefer to straight-up remove this section entirely, as it is fluff, I realize some editors see this as valid. So I am asking here if other Editors agree of removing this section or not. If kept, it needs to be consolidated and use valid third-party sources. --WashuOtaku (talk) 14:54, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

Keep, but undecided about emoji only tweet. it can mean different thing to different people like this case

https://www.businessinsider.com/couple-only-communicates-with-emoji-2014-8 Lokiretro (talk) 15:12, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

It should be kept because it also relates to information regarding who is also leaving and terminating contracts with the company. Though reactions from people who aren't directly associated with the company probably shouldn't be here. Like a penguinz0 tweet shouldn't be here, but kson announcing her departure should be (i haven't looked at the entire edit history so if this isn't relevant ignore me). DigitalPhantoms (talk) 17:57, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

this is just note after i replace another tweet source, because i dont know where to put this

as i stated before if anyone think it is unsuitable for the article feel free to delete

but if it is kept, do check if what i made is correct.

im little hesitant/confused for several reason

1. if it japanese, does it need to be translated?
2. if it is mixed language,
   1. which value is set to language part ?
   2. if first half is japanese and second half is the translated english part, do we put entire tweet?

for second case title section of "cite tweet" template mention on title part that Partial or entire content of the tweet can be used, so it is possible to just put second half. the problem is i dont know japanese and cant verify the translated part Lokiretro (talk) 08:24, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

Hello. For future reference, you can list multiple languages in a cite template, for example: |language = en-us, ja or |language = American English, Japanese

You do not need to translate any source yourself. Please see Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English sources for more on this. If a tweet includes multiple languages, and it's obvious that they say roughly the same thing, use the English language part as the source.

Do not rely on machine translation (Grok, ChatGPT, Google Translate, DeepL etc.) for any contested info. See Wikipedia:RSCHATGPT for more on this. Grayfell (talk) 21:36, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

All Vshojo Twitter Affilates have been removed

The Vshojo Logo which shows next to the Verified Tick has been removed for Every Former and Current (so far) Vshojo Talent

https://x.com/Carthas_Ranavir/status/1947722180961386624 Wycombefan (talk) 18:19, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

What happens on Twitter/X is outside the scope of the article. Just because something has happened does not mean it belongs on an article about the company; after all, there are a lot of things a company does that does not get posted in Wikipedia articles. I ask Editors to please narrow their focus and not include every bit of news they see. Please read WP:NOT. --WashuOtaku (talk) 18:33, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

Almost every talent has left or expressed their intention to leave. I think that is a pretty important point to note on an article about a company centered around promoting talents. Kettleonwater (talk) 19:58, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

This article is about the company, not this one event. If you want to write a separate article about the Meltdown of VShojo, please go right ahead and we can link everything to that article. This is why I insist you remove the second sentence in the lead because it is not about the company. As for the talents, we are still seeing things through and Editors should not speculate, make opinions, or come-up to their own conclusions. We need valid third-party sources and remove the social media references as soon as possible. --WashuOtaku (talk) 20:16, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

Suggestion

I feel like (note 1) is kind of missing the point, instead of Ironmouse fundraising, it's someone else promoting the link. Shouldn't the focus be on Ironmouse fundraising in light of what happened?

Also, I find the explanation of who Ironmouse is to be excessive, the previous sentence already demonstrates her fundraising ability. Also also, you can just read about Ironmouse on her article. 98.35.188.212 (talk) 20:40, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

We have removed the note and slimmed-down the section to just the facts of the matter; you are correct that readers can get all the additional information about Ironmouse on her article. Thank you for your input. --WashuOtaku (talk) 01:48, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

Question regarding dates in the tables

Are the tables standard for Wikipedia? the fact that changing the order based on the dates do not put it in order of date but alphabetically due to the months being presented first seems to make the table pointless. Is there a way to ensure the order is both correct and legible? I haven't mastered this aspect yet. Bonaaq (talk) 22:33, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

i checked this for both table and find nothing wrong or did i miss something?

this should be handled by table parameter above Help:Sortable_tables#Full dates work. Year must be on the end Lokiretro (talk) 22:54, 22 July 2025 (UTC)

The tables appear to be working correctly when sorting based on dates. I am not getting the same issue you are Bonaaq; might want to try a different web browser to see if it does the same thing or not. --WashuOtaku (talk) 01:46, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

It's working okay now, either I was in between edits or confused Bonaaq (talk) 10:31, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

although the sources are sortable now for some reason Bonaaq (talk) 10:35, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

"Is" to "Was"

When Froot (inevitably, given the speed in which the others have mass resigned, plus her removal of all VShojo branding from her account) announces her departure from the company, would it be appropriate to change the status of the company from "is" to "was"?

Tagging @WashuOtaku and@Lokiretro given their frequency in this talk page. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 03:54, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

No. The company becomes "was" when it becomes defunct, until then it is still a company with employees and assets, just without talent. --WashuOtaku (talk) 04:00, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

Would it be okay to add "Mass talent resignation" or something of that sort to the "fate" section? I have added a note not to add to the defunct date, though. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 04:09, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

We will not know the fate of the company until it becomes defunct; at which time an autopsy will be performed giving the cause of death. As a reminder, an Editor should not make assumptions, give an opinion, or speculate. --WashuOtaku (talk) 04:25, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

Understood. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 04:40, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

Is this statement good enough for a date of death? — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 18:34, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

No. The company, based in California, will either need to have a Certificate of Dissolution or Short Form Certificate of Dissolution with the California Secretary of State (SOS). While the statement makes it closer to that, there are still final steps to occur. --WashuOtaku (talk) 19:39, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

I don't understand this - the foundation date listed on the article is the date they announced their launch - which is not the date they registered with the SOS... Eilidhmax (talk) 23:08, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, this is true.

Also, the California license seems to be terminated, and the company was also registered in Delaware. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 23:42, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

Why do you say "seems?" Please present a source if it is true. --WashuOtaku (talk) 23:57, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

I can't link the search results on the CA SOS site but you can search for "VShojo" here and see for yourself. It gives a filing date of 17th August 2021 for the Californian VShojo, Inc. and a filing date of 24th February 2022 for the out-of-state Delaware registration. The Delaware SOS gives a date of 7th October 2020 for foundation. If we're not sticking by legal facts for the date of foundation and instead going with the date the agency announced themselves to the public, isn't it hypocritical to demand legal evidence of the company's legal shutdown? Eilidhmax (talk) 12:23, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

I have been more focused on its end, ignoring the beginning, but you bring up a good point and the legal start date should be used and subsequently explained in the History section. I am sure there is a way to link to the legal documents too in a way to use as sources. Let us see if others agree and know a trick to linking. --WashuOtaku (talk) 14:11, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

My point was the exact opposite - why are we concerned with the legal end date when we are apparently not so concerned about the same for its foundation. For all intents and purposes, VShojo finished on the 24th of July. It no longer performs the functions of a VTuber agency as of that date and thus I do not believe we need to wait for formal dissolution to talk about it in the past tense. Eilidhmax (talk) 14:45, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

Because the company is still active, it should be self evident. The statement clearly identifies they are ceasing operations, which means they are now in the process. We do not know for certain what will come next; likely bankruptcy, but another company could also purchase the IP assets and continue the brand. Also, while they have no talents, and are likely shedding employees now, they still have the management team working to its eventual conclusion. The statement also announced they have no money, but that is not entirely accurate; they are still receiving various funds, but are not getting enough to pay the debt they owe... so they are still writing checks, paying employees (or their severance), and are likely getting the legal council that is needed to help close/defend the company. Hope that helps. --WashuOtaku (talk) 15:07, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

Just to clarify something, the California SOS site lists VShojo as "inactive" as of 02/03/2022, which is around the same time they registered in Delaware (Delaware is a 'corporate haven' due to Delaware General Corporation Law, so this has no baring on current events). Sometimes a company will slowly sputter into existence and also slowly sputter out of existence. Maybe that will happen here or maybe it won't, but it's still too early to act like it's already completely over. Nobody is pretending that VShojo is thriving, we're just waiting for the dust to settle. See WP:NOTNEWS. Grayfell (talk) 19:46, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

Follow-up, I am disappointed that other Editors have decided that this was good enough. The company still exists despite the statement, even if it now has to go through paperwork and likely the courts for liquidation. --WashuOtaku (talk) 19:44, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

I think we've used other announcements of ceasing operations before, so I think it’s okay. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 20:18, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

If you look at other articles that have companies that gone defunct, they have the date when they go either into dissolution, bankruptcy, or when merged to another company; and those are their fate. We do not have the bankruptcy date as of yet officially... if they are doing it today, great... but we don't have the source for that yet. Again, look at other examples like Lehman Brothers and Enron. People are very eager to write the epitaph, but we still need confirmation and sources. --WashuOtaku (talk) 20:34, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

Various sources are reporting about the company’s shutdown. I think it's fair to add now. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 01:11, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

From what I can tell most are just reporting that the company is going to shut down, not that it has actually ceased to exist. It's fine to add that announcement, but the company still exists. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:19, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

It isn't a former company yet. It's just a company with no talent that will continue to work with it and with an announced intention to shut down. It's also unclear what the fate of the company will be. It's theoretically possible for example that the talent contracts are actually still legally enforceable (though obviously not fiscally enforceable for VShojo as it stands) and VShojo gets bought out by another company for its IP. Then the proper defunct date would be a buyout date instead of the shutdown announcement. We should avoid making a WP:CRYSTAL pronouncement. If there's nothing after a reasonable period of time, we can always fall back on the announcement date. There's no rush and the state of the company is made crystal clear in the lead. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:15, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

@Ezlo Jeslan:Corporate law is complicated. Per Corporate dissolution: Dissolving a company may take several months, involve legal assistance, incur significant costs, and be emotionally taxing. When the company formally winds down, we can update the infobox to reflect that. Grayfell (talk) 00:44, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

And it hasn't already? Thought it was clear from the announcement and third party sources. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 01:06, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

An announcement of shutdown is not the same as legally ending its own existence. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:18, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

i can't access link you put on https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=VShojo&oldid=1303057684

it give me 403. is it the same on your end?

Request blocked. We can't connect to the server for this app or website at this time. There might be too much traffic or a configuration error. Try again later, or contact the app or website owner.
If you provide content to customers through CloudFront, you can find steps to troubleshoot and help prevent this error by reviewing the CloudFront documentation. Lokiretro (talk) 22:14, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

This is the link: https://www.fox13now.com/entertainment/vtuber-agency-vshojo-to-shut-down-after-most-of-its-streamers-quit

It works fine for me on multiple browsers on both mobile and desktop. Grayfell (talk) 23:29, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

still got the same 403 error maybe it is from my end Lokiretro (talk) 23:33, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

Use of tweets

Obviously, a lot is changing quickly, and folks are eager to keep this page up-to-date. That's both good and also bad.

Having Froot be the sole entry in the 'current talents' table was a subtle bit of editorializing. This made this one talent stick out like a sore thumb based on interpretations of social media posts for a breaking news event, and most of these posts were compiled by Wikipedia editors, not by outside sources.

This kind of thing will be a recurring issue until more reliable independent sources are found and summarized. It's almost always better to stick to reliable, independent sources and only use primary and WP:ABOUTSELF sources (like tweets) for uncontested details. If something is only supported by a tweet, it's worth asking if it needs to be in the article at all. Sometimes it does belong, in which case make sure it's short and to the point.

When looking for sources, it might be helpful to review WP:RSP and WP:RS/VG (RSVG has some entries that probably aren't good enough for coverage of living people, but the list is still a good starting point).

As a reminder, avoid citing tweets for claims about people other than the one making the tweet, as this is a biographies of living people issue.

Grayfell (talk) 21:10, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

+1. We should not be inferring that Froot has left VShojo until she puts out an official announcement on Xitter or another Reliable Source reports on it. Removing a verification mark is not proof and would constitute Original Research. No need to rush with updating this article, as There is No Deadline after all. GhostStalker (Got a present for ya! / Mission Log) 21:14, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

what about image of text for example this tweet citation https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=VShojo&diff=prev&oldid=1302324182 by @AhiruRat?

there are 3 possibilities

1. remove it
2. keep it as it
3. type the content into the wiki

i prefer no 3 but dont know if it is correct

no 2 is unclear and need people to go directly to tweet to see the actual content

no 1 is my last choice. even if sports illustrated mention it, they dont give quote it in full text and just link back to tweet Lokiretro (talk) 21:01, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

At this time I only see the tweets as a placeholder till a better source is identified and used. Only use tweets when there is nothing else available; but for what is going on for the past week we will eventually get better sources; people are just being quick on a time schedule that does not exist. --WashuOtaku (talk) 21:07, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

Well said.

I've replaced the Sports Illustrated source with one from The Verge. SI has become a content mill in recent years (like Vice, Kotaku, Newsweek, and too many others). For now at least, per WP:THEVERGE that outlet still has a good reputation. PC Gamer has also covered this, and that outlet seems okay.

It makes things a bit easier to start with reliable sources rather than rush, but I also get why people are keen to update this. Grayfell (talk) 21:33, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

Statements from would-be future talents?

Multiple VTubers have come forward stating that they had passed VShojo's auditions, and would have joined the company proper if its current implosion hadn't happened. The list of known talents currently includes PiaPi‬, Beribug‬, and Tori Oriane‬ (all for a monster girl generation) Mint Fantome and Phoebe Chan, with one more VTuber being known but currently not named (for a more idol-focused generation).

Should we add their statements about the company? Curious as to what the consensus here is. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 22:25, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

Tagging @Washuotaku, @Lokiretro, and @Grayfell due to their presences in this page. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 22:26, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

i assume there is (or will be) any article that state their name. so it maybe just just a line or two with source

Should we add their statements about the company?

no until there is source for it.

from what i can tell there will be no more tweet source after @Grayfell reduce tweet citation last time Lokiretro (talk) 22:39, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

I think it would fit, but am willing to defer to consensus. GhostStalker (Got a present for ya! / Mission Log) 22:41, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

I don't have the power to ban tweets or anything, and I'm not an admin. I'm an editor who has some experience with articles about controversies.

This article exists to provide disinterested readers with an overview of the company and the situation. Too many details will make the article harder to read and potentially annoy readers. We should focus on a broad overview based on reliable, independent sources.

Siliconera is considered good (but not great) at WP:RSVG. This story cover's Mint's stream about this. IMO this is sufficient for a sentence about Mint, but probably not any more than that.

To put it another way, I'm sure there will be many, many sources going over all the details in excruciating detail. Instead of trying to compete with those, we should keep it simple.

When more sources show up, we can expand. Grayfell (talk) 23:37, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

Fair. Added about Mint. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 23:53, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

No–The article is about the company; the problem with those in the interview/audition process is that they are not part of the company yet. Now saying that, one could make a case for an exception, but that would depend what the source is, hopefully reliable and independent, and how it is presented in the article (maybe even a new section on the talent process if enough sources warrant it). In my opinion, the current tweets are reactionary and do not fit in what the article is currently about. If the consensus disagrees with me, then hopefully they can be added without muddling the article. --WashuOtaku (talk) 00:32, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

The consensus seems to be that more direct mentions in other sources will be needed to mention specific names, which is why Mint is mentioned in the article. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 02:19, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

Okay. --WashuOtaku (talk) 02:33, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, they had signed contracts but had not publicly debuted yet. HapHaxion _{(talk / contribs)} 00:10, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

Extended confirmed protection

make the page temporarily extended confirmed protection to prevent any biased edits or vandalism while the current event unfolds 2A00:23C6:A8D:C01:7141:C691:4F51:DDCF (talk) 00:06, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

I think semi is fine. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 00:16, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

I requested page protection yesterday, but was declined as not enough instance of vandalism warranted it. Oh well. --WashuOtaku (talk) 00:36, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

It appears that semi-protection was implemented in response to the latest spate of vandalism, so hopefully things calm down for a bit. GhostStalker (Got a present for ya! / Mission Log) 11:43, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2025

The sentence: “All but one of her fellow VShojo members, including all talents in the company's Japanese branch, subsequently resigned…” can be changed to say that “All VShojo members subsequently resigned in the following three days.” since the final member has made their statement about leaving the company. IggyMidomi (talk) 00:17, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

 Done for WP:BLP reasons. Using tweets isn't great here, but my concern is that the article was indirectly implying that Froot was the lone holdout defending the company. It wasn't saying that, but it was implying that. Per sources, she removed 'VShojo' from her social media profile the same day everybody else did. It took her slightly longer to tweet about her departure, but that's trivia that doesn't belong in the lead of the article. Grayfell (talk) 01:02, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

Using a tweet purely for her affiliation status given the BLP concerns is probably fine for WP:ABOUTSELF purposes. A RS will eventually write that the talent is all gone and the cite can be updated. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:05, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

References

Veibae & NDAs

Veibae just made a post on X claiming the NDAs talent signed are no longer enforceable, alleging in new information predatory contracts and NDAs with legal threats, that multiple management figures engaged in slander against talent (corroborated by Silvervale), MowtenDoo engaged in inappropriate behavior (corroborated by Nyanners), and that Veibae and Silvervale were released from their contracts together to minimize reputational damage. As a former talent, does this merit inclusion in the article although this is the only source so far? HapHaxion _{(talk / contribs)} 00:22, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

Not yet. Keep an eye out for reliable and independent sources. Using social media for this is a WP:BLP minefield. Grayfell (talk) 00:48, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

It's unenforceable in the sense that VShojo apparently has no money so will not be able to sue to enforce. Until her story gets picked up by WP:RS though, using a tweet for these claims is a blatant violation of WP:BLPSPS (i.e. negative statements about other living people cited to self-published source). -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 00:50, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

These are claims for now and none of these are credible sources, so I strongly advise against adding accusations at this time. In future (not tomorrow or next week, but soon) if and when they are reported by credible third-party sources, it may then be included in the article (and hopefully written in a way that makes sense). But for now it is Veibae said this and Silvervale said that... it creates a lot of noise and could derail the article in regards of neutrality. Remember this is an article about the company first, not the drama surrounding that; someone can make a separate article to expand that if they choose or, better, create new articles about the other talent like Veibae and Silvervale. --WashuOtaku (talk) 01:00, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

I'd agree. Similarly to the Mint situation, let's wait until third party sources make dedicated articles about it to add it. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 01:13, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

As independent sources are now posting about it, I have added it to the article. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 23:43, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

I would continue to hold off for now, I do not believe you are giving any of this enough time to mature. Also, these are still one-sided and Wikipedia is all about being neutral. Also, we do not need to list everyone's grievances, just report the highlights. --WashuOtaku (talk) 00:00, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

Regarding this edit, neither Kotaku nor CBR.com are reliable sources. See Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Kotaku (2023-present) and WP:VALNET. Avoid gossip sites, Wait until reliable sources cover it. Grayfell (talk) 01:00, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

Company shutdown

Given the controversy that has somehow started on this site about whether to list this company as defunct (despite the announcement of immediate shutdown and the various third-party sources that have mentioned it as such), I would like to put it to a vote - should we list the company as being defunct or not? Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 23:38, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

As per previous arguments, Yes Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 23:42, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

Please read WP:CON and WP:NOTDEMOCRACY. --WashuOtaku (talk) 00:16, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

It is way, WAY too early. It seems like your ignoring what we're saying. Think of it this way instead: A company cannot pay people if it doesn't exist anymore. Saying the company is shutdown right now would be saying the story is over and the executives got away with it. When the company is fully shut down, the money and assets will be split-up and given to all the people who are owed money. That's a long way off. Other than some trashy clickbait, I haven't seen any indication from sources that the company has even started the bankruptcy process, much less completed it. Grayfell (talk) 00:57, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

Announcing an intent to immediately shut down and cease operations is not the same as legally ceasing to exist and no RS has actually reported the latter. At this point, it's unclear what the fate of the company will be and we do not want to speculate per WP:CRYSTAL. While perhaps unlikely, it's theoretically possible that the company might be purchased for its IP and continued, then there might not be a defunct date at all. If it merges or goes bankrupt, those would be the proper defunct dates. If there's nothing after a reasonable period of time, we can always fall back on the announcement date. There's no rush and the current non-operational state of the company is clearly stated in the lead and body.

Also, in respect to the short description, WP:SDAVOID is clear that terms like "defunct" should generally be avoided since entities are rarely notable for no longer existing. When there is a final date that can be added per WP:SDDATES. So regardless of how the status is defined in the article text, the term should not be used in the SD. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:30, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

Staff member has confirmed its closure

The Director of VShojo's Japanese operations has confirmed that the company has closed down (past tense). See use of "ました" (past tense) in the first two sentences [first image] https://www.linkedin.com/posts/alexpelz_vshojo%E3%81%AF%E3%81%93%E3%81%AE1%E5%B9%B4%E7%B5%8C%E5%96%B6%E9%99%A3%E4%B8%8A%E5%B1%A4%E9%83%A8%E3%81%AB%E3%82%88%E3%82%8B%E8%AA%A4%E6%83%85%E5%A0%B1%E3%81%A8%E3%81%9D%E3%82%8C%E3%81%8C%E9%96%89%E9%8E%96%E7%9B%B4%E5%89%8D%E3%81%AB%E5%88%A4%E6%98%8E%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E3%81%A8%E3%81%84%E3%81%86-activity-7354811029035388929-vVOb/?originalSubdomain=jp Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 19:43, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

A social media post is not an official announcement of a company's dissolution. Instead of edit warring, propose these sources here on the talk page and read what other people are saying about this. Grayfell (talk) 19:50, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=VShojo&curid=65989649&diff=1310112969&oldid=1309186343

source https://youtube.com/watch?si=rbYVlYAVG6GlVwu_&v=j0vLuiS2q9g

based on comment it is around 9:06

i'm unsure if this enough, maybe even wp:NOTRS

quick search dont give any newer related result Lokiretro (talk) 21:50, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

We cannot accept that as a valid source. Please provide something like a news article from a valid source and/or legal documents from the government regarding its bankruptcy. --WashuOtaku (talk) 22:17, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

Is a former talent of the company directly confirming that the company has filed for bankruptcy not a valid source? Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 22:31, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

Yes, because we are getting third-hand source here; the talent is not part of the company, the talent does not know what actually is going on, just being told that it is so. Please, please use valid sources because we cannot use "trust me bro" here. --WashuOtaku (talk) 23:23, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

If this was just a random employee or a dramatuber, I'd understand the sentiment. However, we're talking about one of the most popular and outspoken members of VShojo here, whose presence was one of the biggest draws for the company in Japan, and is very likely involved in the bankruptcy proceedings. I think Kson is very much a valid source. Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 23:33, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

Kson is not a company insider, she is also in Japan, which separates her more so from what is happening. Please be patient and just wait for the official documentation or validation from a valid news source. --WashuOtaku (talk) 23:51, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

extra confirmed protection to prevent conflict

Vshojo, given its current circumstance, is a highly controversial topic, suggest it should have extended confirmed protection to prevent any conflicts 148.252.129.33 (talk) 20:09, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

The article is already semi-protected. That seems sufficient, no? Grayfell (talk) 21:14, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

The founder has literally said they're shutting down

Why are we taking down edits of them shutting down? Am I misunderstanding something? https://x.com/VShojo/status/1948442574722924778?t=yI4O8NvrlIx5SRhqz9GjQQ&s=19 2604:3D09:8C7A:8200:38CD:B0FE:5570:F078 (talk) 20:42, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

it is more complicated that that, read this thread for more Talk:VShojo#"Is" to "Was"

An announcement of shutdown is not the same as legally ending its own existence @Patar knight Lokiretro (talk) 21:30, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

Not even the founder has the power to instantly shut down a company. This company has dozens of employees and contractors with active contracts, and also a lot of assets and debt. This will take time.

Nobody is pretending the company is healthy. To put it another way, the body hasn't hit the floor yet, and it still has a long way to fall. Grayfell (talk) 21:39, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

Draft article

I have created a draft article about the company's shutdown, Draft:Collapse of VShojo, as I feel that the unprecedented nature of the company's downfall warrants its own article. If anybody wants to help flesh it out, it would be helpful.

Pinging @Patar knight @Lokiretro @Grayfell @Washuotaku @GhostStalker Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 04:58, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

Hello. I recommend taking a look at WP:BACKWARDS. As an encyclopedia, all we can do is summarize sources. When writing a new articles, it's important to start with reliable sources. While I agree that the (pending) collapse of this company is unprecedented, in a few different ways even, it doesn't matter what we think. What matters is what sources have to say about it. If you start with sources before you write the article, you save a lot of headaches in the long run. Grayfell (talk) 05:21, 30 July 2025 (UTC)

Thanks! Ezlo Jeslan (talk) 00:09, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

For something like this where it is not immediately apparent that a separate article is necessary, the best course of action is normally to develop the content on the parent page and then WP:SPLIT. Just because something is notable doesn't mean it has to have its own article (see WP:NOPAGE). -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 22:56, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

Terminology of “controversy”

“Controversy” infers that there’s a debate over who is in the right and who is in the wrong. In this instance, however, there’s clearly a dominant side (Ironmouse & all other talents involved, including those that have worked with or were to debut under VShojo) and nobody taking the other side. And considering the scale of it all, surely this should be considered more of a “scandal,” not a controversy? 82.7.111.191 (talk) 13:40, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

You are probably right. --WashuOtaku (talk) 15:08, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

Official Closure

The site no longer exists https://www.vshojo.com/ and they've made an official statement saying they have closed https://x.com/VShojo/status/1948442574722924778 . Any further attempts to claim they still exist is just wishful thinking. And WashuOtaku, you are literally the only one trying to say they still exist. ~2026-15805-83 (talk) 20:56, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Please provide valid source stating they are defunct. The company last update at end of year was they were still liquidating assets and recapturing funds from former talent while trying to go into bankruptcy. A twitter post is not a valid source to go off by, nor if a website is offline. If user believes I am being unfair in the matter, they can go through the dispute resolution process. --WashuOtaku (talk) 00:05, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

A Twitter announcement is very much an official statement of it's from the actual company. You are asking for something that might never be made public. ~2026-14185-20 (talk) 00:29, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

Here is what I do know, the former CEO is currently going through Chapter 7 bankruptcy and the details are available on the Court Listener. Kson received notification that Vshojo started the bankruptcy process in September, two months since the post that they were ceasing operations, which is why we cannot go with that statement alone. Where they are along that process I have yet to find and not sure if the former CEO's case is connected to it, but the dates match between the website and Kson's video post. Other editors, that are better at researching, could help in gathering more information on this topic; bankruptcy court is a very public process, so the information is out there if one knows where to look. That all said, until we know more, the company still exist, even if it is just to be picked apart by creditors eventually. --WashuOtaku (talk) 01:28, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

Vshojo as its original entity no longer exists. The sooner you accept this, the better. It doesn't matter what creditors are doing, Vshojo's announcement means it closed its doors, i.e. was, not is. ~2026-14185-20 (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

When a company closes its door, it does not suddenly cease to be, it does not work that way. We could add that they filed for bankruptcy in September 2025, but they would still exist as a company, just insolvent. If the former CEO's chapter 7 bankruptcy case is tied to vshojo, then the decision made there is will be the last chapter for Vshojo.

Additionally, please stop edit warring with me on this. I mentioned time and time again if you can provide a valid source confirming they are defunct, please share; an anonymous user saying "trust me bro" is not a strong case. --WashuOtaku (talk) 01:54, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

"you are literally the only one trying to say they still exist." I am also saying it still exists. From what I understand, the company's debts have yet to be settled, and tweeting about dissolving the company doesn't fix the underlying problem.

It's been less than a year, and these things can take a very long time. Until the company is formally dissolved, and we have a verifiable source for that, this remains an ongoing issue.

"The sooner you accept this, the better." I get that this is about vtubers, but maybe tone it down and focus on sources and content instead of writing like an anime antagonist. Grayfell (talk) 03:08, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

The first ever fully-protected article?

The VShojo page is now fully protected, only for administrators.

Who would do such a thing? Is it on purpose, or by accident?

I need to know. UltraAtom (talk) 18:44, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

It was on purpose, @UltraAtom. Administrators sometimes fully protect articles if editors have been edit warring over the content. In this case, editors were warring over whether VShojo should be described in the present or past tense. Chess enjoyer (talk) 20:04, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

Yea I agree; it's slick, how half the articles on this website, are semi-protected, and extended-confirmed-protected. UltraAtom (talk) 21:04, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

You agree with what? I was just telling you why this article is protected. Chess enjoyer (talk) 21:07, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

Your reasoning. That's what the true meaning is, no offense or disrespect to your knowledge. UltraAtom (talk) 17:08, 23 March 2026 (UTC)

Vshojo, WCW and Spirit Airlines

The closure of Spirit Airlines made me remember this article, it looks there was a quick consensus on changing the "is" for "was", considering that airline closures are a long and even more complicated process (sale of aircraft, paying debts, routes, manteinance, possible class action lawsuits because of tickets and refunds, etc.) Usually on those cases the company formally ceases to exist months or even years after the public end of operations. Another example, WCW, in the common history it was bought by the WWF/E in 2001 and ceased to exist that same year, but there were still assets like legal oblications and contracts tied to the original that took a decade and a half to formally fold. The wikipedia page of it points that out, that while de facto it closed in 2001, it de jure closed on 2017.

So why for a Vtuber Company (a talent agency) makes me wonder why are we waiting for a formality to change the tense of the article. If we are going for Verifiabilty we do have one source that mentions the words "shuts down", as The Verge has it in their article. https://www.theverge.com/news/713343/vshojo-shutting-down-ironmouse-missing-charity-donations

Also in the docket you mentioned https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacb.2026655/gov.uscourts.cacb.2026655.1.0.pdf you can go to the page 37, literally in the document Justin admits that VShojo ceased to exist on July 2025 per bankruptcy fillings.

Vshojo, Inc.

Dates business existed

From-To

10/2020 - 07/2025

Again, if you don't want to change the "is" for "was" because a lack of true verifiable source or a formal shutdown or notification of closure in the Delaware archives, at least my suggestion would be adding the next two options: "Vshojo is an inactive...talent agency" or "Vshojo is a... talent agency in the process of liquidation" (Chapter 7 Bankruptcy as far as i know means liquidation, so there's no turning back from that). Hyperba21 (talk) 08:35, 2 May 2026 (UTC)

There definitely needs to be a standardized policy for when a shuttered company can be referred to in past tense. — Red XIV ^(talk) 13:35, 2 May 2026 (UTC)

I am looking at the Spirit Airlines article and I do like how they have a cease operations in the infobox; however the company is in Chapter 7, same as Vshojo, so it is not officially closed its doors yet. It should be monitored the next few days to see how it plays out with the editors since it is such a high profile company compared to Vshojo. --WashuOtaku (talk) 13:52, 2 May 2026 (UTC)

Having "defunct" in the lead makes sense, as it would be misleading to imply they still function as a talent agency.

I think, strictly speaking, the Spirit Airlines article is a bit premature, but it doesn't make too much difference for how this article handles things. That article cites an AP source saying Spirit “started an orderly wind-down of our operations, effective immediately.” If we had sources of the quantity and quality of the Spirit closure, the article would be much better off. AP also mentions that it "employed about 17,000 people". While VShojo is significant in the Vtuber space, in the wide world, it doesn't compare to something of that scale. It's worth keeping things in perspective.

As is usually the case, reliable sources are what the article needs most. Grayfell (talk) 00:40, 3 May 2026 (UTC)