Talk:Ruthenian Uniate Church

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge, as it is agreed that the RUC extended beyond the Metropolis of Kiev, Galicia and all Ruthenia (Ruthenian Uniate Church), implying that the case for merge is not supported; readers best served by having separate pages. Klbrain (talk) 11:21, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

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I propose merging Metropolis of Kiev, Galicia and all Ruthenia (Ruthenian Uniate Church) into Ruthenian Uniate Church. Ruthenian Uniate Church had a single metropolis, which content can easily be explained in the context of the church, and a merger would not cause any article-size or weighting problems. --Nagsb (talk) 16:14, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose The Ruthenian Uniate Church survived for longer than the Metropolis of Kiev, Galicia and all Ruthenia. The RUC moved to an archdiocese of Lviv when it abandoned the Metropolis of Kiev, Galicia and all Ruthenia. So the two are not identical. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:44, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

  @Laurel Lodged do you have sources that the Ruthenian Uniate Church existed after the partitions of the Commonwealth? As far as I know after the partitions the Ruthenian Uniate Church did not survive and was split among the three states in the following way:

  • To the Russian Empire - Archeparchy of Polotsk, Metropolitan of all Byzantine Catholics in Russia
  • To the Kingdom of Prussia - Eparchy of Supraśl
  • To the Austrian Empire - Archeparchy of Lviv and others which soon establish the Greek Catholic Church.

  Nagsb (talk) 16:53, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

See here for a fuller explanation. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:54, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

In 1807, Pope Pius VII authorised the metropolitan to administer the vacant see of Kiev on the basis of the Eparchy of Lviv. @Laurel Lodged When then the Ruthenian Uniate Church stop to exist? I think when the three successor entities (Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Belarusian Greek Catholic Church and Russian Greek Catholic Church) appears, right? Nagsb (talk) 16:59, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

It could be said that the RUC was never disestablished. Even when the metropolis was divided among several states, those suffragan dioceses were still part of the RUC. It could be said that the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is simply a name change. I would regard the Belarusian Greek Catholic Church and Russian Greek Catholic Church as new establishments from a mother church (the RUC). Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:30, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

With the Union of Uzhhorod, dioceses in Transylvania and Hungary also joined the Ruthenian Uniate Church. I don't think that those dioceses were ever part of the metropolis, although they would have been under the primate of the RUC. Laurel Lodged (talk) 17:22, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

@Laurel Lodged, no they did not join the Ruthenian Uniate Church, they formed a sister church, Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church (although small part of these dioceses formed the Romanian Greek Catholic Church as well). Nagsb (talk) 07:35, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

That's probably true. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:49, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The background section is awful and essentially a narrative

Large parts of the background section rely on extremely outdated historiography (seriously two of the key sources predate WW1), deeply rooted in nationalist of the era. The paragraphs take on a distinctly nationalist overtone, with a strong focus on Ukraine (and ignoring the Belarussian part), and a very obvious narrative. For example

"They had kept their wealth, had access to the highest offices, and were socially accepted as equals with the Catholic nobility. By absorbing the Polish form of Western culture, they were also the first to be lost for the Ruthenian people. With the loss of the elite, the Ruthenian Church and people increasingly lost leadership, representation in the government, and benefactors for church-sponsored programmes."

What kind of nationalism-era "polonization" narrative is this?! Come on, historiography has moved on from this tosh two decades ago! 83.255.119.168 (talk) 02:24, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

Oh lo and behold the person who wrote most of that section is banned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Laurel_Lodged

Right. Not sure how to proceed here. 83.255.119.168 (talk) 02:31, 23 April 2025 (UTC)