Talk:List of Delta Force members

Redlinked names - Delta and SEALs

The contents of this page and List of United States Navy SEALs are vulnerable to redlinking. This has been a problem for many years, even though both articles have editor comments about non-notable names. Many of these warriors really should have WP articles because they are WP:Notable. Wikipedia editing guidance WP:RED says "Add red links to articles to indicate that a page will be created soon or that an article should be created for the topic because the subject is notable and verifiable [emphasis added]." Okay, we also have the guidance in WP:LISTPEOPLE. When we enforce a blue-link notability requirement for a list of people we avoid the problem of cluttering up the list with narrative about notability and the supporting citations for the narrative. That material belongs in the individual articles, not in these lists. In other words, interested editors should WP:WTAF. (This comment is also posted on the SEAL-list talkpage) – S. Rich (talk) 22:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

List

Here is a list of the removed red-linked names, should anyone wish to create an article about any of them;

• Alfred G. Birch: Retired Sergeant Major and Silver Star Medal recipient. Served at 1st SFOD-D from 1987 to 2002, veteran of Operation Just Cause in Panama, 1989, Operation Desert Storm, Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom.
• Peter Blaber: Retired Lt. Col. who was an AFO team leader during Operation Anaconda. Former B Squadron Commander. Author of the book, "The Mission, the Men, and Me."
• Lewis Burruss: Retired Lieutenant Colonel. Original member of 1st SFOD-D, serving with the unit from 1978 to January 1987. Veteran of Vietnam War, Operation Eagle Claw and Operation Urgent Fury.
• Daniel D. Busch: Staff Sergeant, killed in action during the Battle of Mogadishu on October 3, 1993, during Operation Gothic Serpent.
• Jonathan Dunbar: Joined the Army 2005, served with 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment, then moved to 38th Cavalry Regiment (long range surveillance) in 2009, serving in both Afghanistan and Iraq. In 2013 he moved to Special Operations Command. He was with Delta when he was killed in action in 2018.
• James C. Faris: Served at 1st SFOD-D from 1990 until 2008, rising to the rank of Unit Command Sergeant Major. Awarded the Silver Star Medal for heroism during the Battle of Mogadishu in Somalia, October 1993. He had previously received the Bronze Star Medal for actions during the battle. His military career culminated as the senior enlisted leader for SOCOM before he retired in 2015.
• Earl R. Fillmore, Jr.: Sergeant First Class, who at 24, became one of the youngest soldiers to be selected into Delta Force. Killed in action (KIA) in Mogadishu, Somalia during the Battle of Mogadishu and awarded the Distinguished Service Cross.
• Thomas Greer: Former Troop Commander in 1st SFOD-D. He was the senior commanding officer at the Battle of Tora Bora in 2001 and wrote the book Kill Bin Laden. He served in Iraq and Afghanistan. He died in 2016 from cancer.
• Kevin Holland: Served with Seal Team 8 and the Naval Special Warfare Development Group from 1989-1995, after a break in service he interviewed and passed selection for Delta Force serving as an operator in the unit from 2003-2013.
• Norman G. Hooten: Delta Force veteran of Operation Just Cause in Panama, 1989 and Operation Gothic Serpent, Battle of Mogadishu in October 1993.
• Christopher Nelms: Master Sergeant, died of wounds suffered during military free fall parachute training accident on July 27, 2018. Nelms served with Delta Force from 2008 to 2018 and deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan and Niger.
• Eulis A. Presley: Vietnam War veteran serving with 5th Special Forces Group and Military Assistance Command, Vietnam – Studies and Observations Group. Served with 1st SFOD-D from 1979 to 1981 and participated in Operation Eagle Claw.
• Walter L. Shumate: Korean War and Vietnam War veteran. Retired Sergeant Major in Delta Force, serving in the unit from its inception in 1978 to 1982.
• William F. Thetford: Served at 1st SFOD-D from 1990 until 2011, rising to the rank of Unit Command Sergeant Major. Awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for heroism during the Battle of Mogadishu in Somalia, October 1993. He had previously received the Silver Star for actions during the battle. His military career culminated as the senior enlisted leader for U.S. Central Command before he retired in 2019.
• Brad Thomas: Former Master Sergeant, served with Delta Force from 1998 to 2010, part of Task Force 121 during Operation Red Dawn. Thomas was also part of Task Force Ranger during the Battle of Mogadishu.
• Dennis Wolfe: Retired Sergeant Major in Delta Force, serving in the unit from its inception in 1978 to 1987. Part of the inaugural class of the first Operator Training Course (OTC-1).

There may be other removed names found in the page history. - wolf 04:49, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

References

WP Notable requirement for inclusion

This list, and the SEAL list, contains in-line editor comments about the need for WP:Notability to be included. The editing rationales are manifold -- WP:5P1 is the starting point. When we limit the inclusion criteria we keep the list simple and useful for the reader. We avoid a clutter of references. (Such reference usually have little purpose other than to justify a non-notable name inclusion.) "Non-notable" Deltas (and SEALS) may have WP:NOTEWORTHY sources which document their lives and careers, but those sources do not overcome the need to WP:WTAF. This is simply a list article, not a listing of Deltas who have some (or more} mention in news media. – S. Rich (talk) 02:31, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Short description

@Thewolfchild: your edit summary simply doesn't make sense. Are you missing the members at the end of US Army special operations force members? HKLionel TALK 10:36, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

HKL: "your edit summary simply doesn't make sense."

- Maybe you could clarify just what it is you are struggling with?

HKL: "Are you missing the members at the end of US Army special operations force members?"

- Nope. Are you missing the US Army Delta Force at the end of Notable members of the US Army Delta Force...? - \\'cԼF 22:44, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

@Thewolfchild No, it isn't the article itself and is a related list: that doesn't make disambiguation any less necessary, and duplicating the title is useless. I'm not missing anything, perhaps you are unfamiliar with short description conventions. HKLionel TALK 00:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

If you knew, why ask?

Apparently you're unfamiliar with US spec ops. - \\'cԼF 01:25, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

@Thewolfchild There is nothing for me to respond to here. If you have no points to make then I'll revert back to the appropriate SD. HKLionel TALK 10:00, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

That's not how it works. You don't just arbitrarily decide "discussion over, I'm doing whatever it like". You could, perhaps, propose an alternate edit and maybe we come to a decision on that... - \\'cԼF 13:15, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

@Thewolfchild You haven't discussed anything based on guidelines, so I don't see how this discussion can go any further. Perhaps you'd like to look at WP:SHORTDESC to see how this SD, based on this information, can be further improved, but you have offered no reason to not reinstate a version that doesn't come into conflict with existing guidelines. HKLionel TALK 13:27, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I've read it, I'm wondering if you have. WP:shortdesc is not a "guideline" (and certainly not a policy), it's basically a description of how short descriptions can be best crafted when added to am article, if one is to be added at all. This page went without any sh.desc. for the first 12 years of it's life, and the current one has been in place without issue for the last 4 years. Why are you suddenly so dead-set against it? Let's start there, and maybe we come up with a solution. - \\'cԼF 13:46, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

@Thewolfchild I'm well aware of the status of the page, but there is no other page on short description conventions, so why not follow it? Just because it's been in place for 4 years doesn't mean it can't be improved. You still haven't explained why my short description is not suitable; once again, duplicating the title is not helpful, so I don't even see why you would be against it. Thanks, HKLionel TALK 13:59, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

You haven't even given any justification for why this list needs a description to begin with, nevermind the one that was already there, or the one you want to add. We don't add or change stuff 'just cuz'. You complain that duplication should not be there (because it's not allowed? or just frowned on? or something else?). But then you want to remove the description, that precisly states what the page is (there isn't very much to the page) and instead use a much more vague description, that by you own words, uses terms repeatedly found in the article sooo, you're using duplication anyway. That's an improvement?

Can you help clairfy any of this? And/or would you like to propose an alterate suggestion, so that, (as I've already said) perhaps we can come to an agreement and move on? (and either way, you don't need to keep pinging me, just fyi) - \\'cԼF 14:22, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Delta Force is not self-explanatory, therefore this list needs a SD. Indeed, duplication is highly frowned upon. I'm not removing anything; in fact, I'm adding useful context, whereas repeating Delta Force is removing any utility. The best way to precisely state what the page is is to tell the reader that Delta Force is a US Army special operations force, which is not vague and directly informs the reader what Delta Force is. The point of SDs is that the reader can get what the article is about before going to the page itself, so using terms repeatedly found in the article is irrelevant. My "duplication" is in fact encouraged as it reflects what the article contains, fulfilling the functions of a SD, so yes, it is absolutely an improvement. What does your duplication achieve? The reader already knows that the list is about the Delta Force because it's in the title, so stating it again in the SD wouldn't do anything. Sorry for pinging, I had previously been replying to you on mobile. HKLionel TALK 09:01, 22 January 2026 (UTC)

The article is a list, so should not need a short description at all. If you think a SD is needed to clarify the nature of the list, then this could be a clear sign that the article should be renamed — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 13:51, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

WP:SDEXAMPLES: Use "none" only where the entire title would be understood worldwide. Explain words that may not be understood globally. "Delta Force" is obviously not understood to English speakers, let alone globally—nothing in it indicates its nature as a US Army special operations force. WP:SDNONE: Articles should be assessed on their own merits, and editors using semi-automated tools to write short descriptions must never assume that all articles with a title of a particular form (e.g., "List of x") should be treated in the same way. WP:SDLIST: Articles with titles such as "List of x"…should not be given a short description "none" solely because they are lists or have a title of a particular form. "The article is a list, so should not need a short description at all" is therefore an invalid argument. HKLionel TALK 14:11, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

Perhaps it is better to rename the article to something like List of US Army Delta Force members so that it is distinguished from all of the other Delta Forces — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 14:23, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

Per the same guidelines, "List of" is not needed in a SD. Repeating "Delta Force" is not helpful, wouldn't specifying that it's a special operations force of the US Army be more helpful instead? HKLionel TALK 14:29, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

See above ...rename the article... ... — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 14:35, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

Why? This is a clear list article. By your logic, shouldn't all other list articles that aren't clear in scope/have titles that aren't self-explanatory be renamed as well? HKLionel TALK 14:39, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

You stated Delta Force is not self-explanatory, so just change the article title to clarify the topic. — GhostInTheMachine ^{talk to me} 14:43, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

I'd like to see how you'd do so, notwithstanding the circumventing of one of the primary purposes of SDs. HKLionel TALK 14:46, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

It's correct that the SD rules are by way of guidance, and don't have formal Guideline or Policy status, but they do have wide community acceptance and shouldn't be ignored without very good reason. The best SD here is "US Army special operations force members". "Delta Force" is a not a readily comprehensible term, especially outside the US, and should be avoided, per WP:SDAVOID. There may be different ways of explaining in simple terms what "Delta Force" means, but "US Army special operations force" seems to work. All mainspace articles are expected to have a short description, per WP:SDAUTO, and the fact that the title starts "List of" does not change that. "None" would not be correct, either - that is specifically covered by WP:SDLIST.

We're discussing here the appropriate SD given the article's existing title. If that were to be changed, the SD might be different, but unless and until someone does that, "US Army special operations force members" looks to be the best. MichaelMaggs (talk) 20:06, 28 January 2026 (UTC)

Exactly, very well put. HKLionel TALK 01:43, 29 January 2026 (UTC)