Talk:Landtag of Styria

Requested move 6 February 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 12:30, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

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Landtag Styria → Landtag of Styria – The current title of this article is grammatically incorrect when following English grammar rules. While "Landtag Styria" aligns with German conventions, English Wikipedia adheres to English grammar. Saying "Landtag Styria" is as incorrect as saying "Mayor New York City" instead of "Mayor of New York City." To omit "of", the title would need to be "Styria Landtag". Furthermore, there is no official translation that uses "Landtag Styria", which would be the only valid justification that comes to mind for adopting this unconventional form. –Tobias (talk) 16:28, 6 February 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. DrKay (talk) 08:45, 23 February 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 03:00, 7 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Valorrr ^{(lets chat)} 01:06, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Zacwill (talk) 05:11, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
• While there is no official translation, the current title was selected as it is the WP:COMMONNAME in English (see cited sources). Wikipedia editors don't get to decide what's a correct translation or not, we defer to reliable sources where they exist. Oppose (t · c) buidhe 08:00, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure that two sources are enough to establish that "Landtag Styria" is the COMMONNAME. Also, one of them uses "Styrian Landtag" alongside "Landtag Styria". Either "Landtag of Styria" or "Styrian Landtag" would be preferable to the current, ungrammatical title. Zacwill (talk) 08:08, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

• Comment, there is no WP:COMMONNAME for this article or any other Landtag in Austria, as the English name is used too rarely and no official translation exists. An Ngrams search shows no results for any of the styles. @Buidhe was the only other editor involved in the reverts of Landtag Burgenland and this article, which were originally initiated by @Jeffrey34555 before my involvement. I would like to hear their thoughts on this issue as well. This discussion, therefore, also applies to the same issue on Landtag Burgenland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobiasi0 (talk • contribs) 13:06, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

  It depends how many sources you think are necessary to establish the most common translation. There are several English language sources just on Google Scholar, not counting other reliable sources. Additionally, it seems to be the official translation used by the EU (t · c) buidhe 14:54, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

The contents of your link were machine translated. I don't think we can consider that a "official translation". In terms of numbers, if we exclude results from Wikipedia, then a search for "Landtag of Styria" returns 252 results, a search for "Styrian Landtag" returns 223 results, and a search for "Landtag Styria" returns 39 results. Zacwill (talk) 15:12, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

If you are just looking at the hits from Google Search, that is not considered reliable because it includes non RS sources. (t · c) buidhe 15:27, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

Hey there, I was the one who originally tried to move this article to "Landtag of Styria". I still believe that the current title is grammatically incorrect (as per nom), and I used an example of "Parliament Canada and Parliament of Canada" to justify why I changed it in my conversation with @Buidhe. I don't believe it's correct to say it without an "of", and therefore I wholeheartedly support this move. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 02:33, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Synchronizing with discussion at Talk:Landtag Burgenland. DrKay (talk) 08:45, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

• Support per nom, comments about common names in English are worthwhile, but ultimately this read much more naturally and be more immediately comprehensible to unfamiliar English readers. Garnet Moss (talk) 23:31, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Austria has been notified of this discussion. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 03:47, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose per Buidhe and the WP:COMMONNAME, as seen in the article's sources. Keep as is, there is no need to fix a supposed "grammar mistake" that sources are happy to print.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:22, 27 April 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose. No case made or IMO can be made in terms of WP:AT. Nom appears to be relying on applying prescriptive grammar to English. That is more than a century behind the times. Andrewa (talk) 01:35, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
• Support in order to have a WP:CONSISTENT style for the Landtage in Austria (the Municipal Council and Landtag of Vienna, although diverging slightly, still essentially follows this style). The article titles for Landtage in Germany more consistently follow this "Landtag of..." style (where Landtag is used in their German names – so Berlin, Bremen and Hamburg are exceptions), and the same consistency should be brought to the article titles for their Austrian equivalents.
  On top of that, "Landtag Styria" is neither idiomatic English nor, as one might incorrectly guess from the word order, the name in German. WP:UCRN says to use "a natural-language word or expression that indicates the subject of the article" in article titles, so an idiomatic English construction should be used unless we can find English-language sources more commonly using the German-language name. Ham II (talk) 08:08, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
• Support per nom. The WP:COMMONNAME threshold can be pretty low as this is a descriptive title. —  AjaxSmack  05:02, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

• Lean support – The only sources I can find online for "Landtag Styria" are Wikipedia-based or machine translated and "Landtag of Styria" is more common. Based on WP:CONSISTENCY, the "of" structure should be applied to match the other landtags listed here.

However, if we're debating WP:COMMONNAME, Amakuru is clearly misinformed about "Landtag Styria" being favoured. It is in fact Styrian Landtag with a huge number more search results on Google which is the most commonly used (including by reliable sources, whereas there are none for the other iterations). This is perhaps a discussion for a future date as I have not checked to see whether the other Landtags of Germany and Austria are also more commonly referenced in this way. Yaksgawky (talk) 12:32, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.