Talk:Inner City Unit

Steve Peregrin Took

Discussion on user talk page

Cc from my talk page and the talk page for 109.149.245.3
Took himself thought that ICU was basically just the Horns with Nik Turner usurping his role - he went on a lengthy onstage rant about the subject at the Music Machine gig 16th June 1980. Took's manager from 1980 Les Best also agrees that ICU was basically just "Nik Turner and the Horns".Romomusicfan (talk) 11:41, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Discussion continues on my talkpage. Romomusicfan (talk) 16:30, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Discussion moved back here, so I'm pasting in the discussion here:

Extended content

:::Hello Romo, a couple of points regarding your ICU changes. The lead should be a summation of the body, When names first appear in the body they ought to be given in full first time, then surname in other instances - that they have been given in full in the lead shouldn't really change this rule. Secondly, with Took, if we mentioned all guest appearances it would become unwieldy, the article before I made changes overstated Took's significance, I think at best he is a foot-note and certainly not the pivotal figure Fee Mercury Moon tried to portray in her original contributions. 109.149.245.3 (talk) 09:53, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

109.149.245.3 Took himself thought that ICU was basically just the Horns with Nik Turner usurping his role - he went on a lengthy onstage rant about the subject at the Music Machine 16th June 1980. Took's manager from 1980 Les Best also agrees that ICU was basically just "Nik Turner and the Horns".Romomusicfan (talk) 11:33, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Turner played as Sphynx with Erba at Deeply vale in 1978 - the notion that he was "stealing" Took's band is nonsense, anymore than he "stole" Steffi Sharpstrings from Here and Now or anyone else... Erba played on the Williamson's Mother Gong album - was Williamson stealing Took's band? And Erba brought Thoms into ICU? It's a conspiracy! It happens, new bands, a member recommends some-one they know etc... Drug-addled rants on stage will not pass muster for verifiablilty or, read it, reliability. 109.149.245.3 (talk) 15:58, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

There is nothing in the article about Took's comments onstage at the Music Machine. Nor did he claim in said rant that the band had been "stolen" off him, merely that he was responsible for bringing the band's core, Trev and Dino together, "used to pay (Thoms) twenty quid a week" and deserved some credit for that much.

I mention - in this talkpage discussion, not in the article - that Took himself and his final manager both regarded ICU as a descendant of the Horns, in order to demonstrate for the purposes of this discussion that the idea of Took as a significant figure in the band's formation and therefore his guest appearances in 1979-1980 alongside his former band being significant enough happenings to warrant a mention in the article - is more than just some fringe theory on Fee's part. The man himself and his manager thought the same! Romomusicfan (talk) 16:24, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

It's also worth mentioning that before Mick Stupp replaced Dino, reportedly the guest spot would often consist of one or more Took songs from the Horns, thus further hammering home the point that these guest slots were effectively reunions of the previous band and therefore significant to the wider Trev/Dino Rock Family Tree.Romomusicfan (talk) 16:38, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

And I'm not sure Erba has a doubled barreled surname, his writing credits are always simply as Erba. 109.149.245.3 (talk) 09:56, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Romomusicfan (talk) 20:01, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Changes

I'm making these changes:

1. Re-instate full names (with links where appropriate) at their first mention in the body, as per WP:MOS.
2. Change occurances of Ghisio-Erba to simply Erba - that's the official reliable and verifiable name for his writing credits, if you can cite something more reliable and verifiable, please do so.
3. Move the mention of Took's guest appearances to a foot-note - the link to Horns is there in the prose and is adequate.
4. Remove the mention of Landau - it is unsourced and irrelevant. If he managed ICU, then fair enough, but there is no suggestion he did. He is not part of this story.

There are plenty of other personnel who contributed to the story who go unmentioned because I have no reliable references for them other than a biog Steve Pond put together, and because they have silly names and I don't know their real ones: Dave Dog, Speed Machine, Big Steve, Turnip. Little Bit made it in because of his book - I wanted to link to it, but as it is wordpress it will bounce. Lemmy guested with the band on several occassions, as did Bob Calvert. Huw LL filled in as guitarist at the demise of the first incarnation. Trying to squeeze all of this into the prose would detract from the read, and should really be left to fansites. OutOnParole (talk) 18:25, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Speed Machine was Steve Redman. He died about a year or so back. He had a book out of his memoirs a few years back. He claimed to have been in a Took band - this is generally believed to have been on of the early 1976-77 versions of the Horns before things got serious with Trev, Ermanno and Tony.Romomusicfan (talk) 07:21, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm fine with the footnote idea, it's a good compromise.Romomusicfan (talk) 07:23, 15 June 2021 (UTC)