Talk:Independent lifeboats in Britain and Ireland

Any more indie lifeboats out there?

I have found 35 out of the supposed 50 to 100 independents. Does anyone know of any more? Tony Holkham (talk) 23:35, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Make that 40. Tony Holkham (talk) 00:26, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Now 42 - I'm amending the lead to reflect that. Tony Holkham (talk) 14:32, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Up to 59 now. Tony Holkham (talk) 00:10, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Dunkirk Evacuation

Are there any references to independent lifeboats being involved in the Dunkirk evacuation, either with their own crews, or after requisition? SovalValtos (talk) 11:17, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Good question. Will need some research. Tony Holkham (talk) 12:04, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

A quick look suggests only Ryde is old enough. Tony Holkham (talk) 12:13, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Funding

User:Slinkierbus268 added to Caister that it was a charity. It got me wondering how many are NOT charities. If most are charities then it would be better to note the exceptions. It says in the History section that ALL are funded by donations and legacies. What is the source for this? Are none part funded by local authorities?SovalValtos (talk) 12:23, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

That's true it would probably be better to mark the exceptions that are not charities slinkierbus268 — Preceding undated comment added 12:52, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

I have no strong feelings either way. There is a difference, though, between registered charity and funded by donations and we should be aware of that. Tony Holkham (talk) 13:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Had a check on the charity commision/scottish charity regulator website and all those listed in England, Scotland and Wales are registered charities. MilborneOne (talk) 13:20, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Duddon

It is not clear where this is. Cumbria or near Chester as the wikilink implies? SovalValtos (talk) 22:04, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

To editor SovalValtos: The Duddon estuary is below Broughton-in-Furness in Cumbria. I'm not sure exactly where the lifeboat is based, but I'll try to find out. Apparently the website is under construction, rather than dead, but I'm not sure if there's a tag for that! Thanks. Tony Holkham (talk) 00:22, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Given the lifeboat is in Cumbria I am removing the Duddon wikilink to Cheshire.SovalValtos (talk) 06:26, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Would have helped if I'd read your original point properly. Thanks for fixing the Wikilink. Tony Holkham (talk) 09:42, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Ireland

Beware of the site http://www.irishlifeboats.com/ which seems to be more of a fan or tribute site rather than anything official. See the disclaimer at the bottom of its page. http://www.iws.ie/rescue-services/community-rescue-boats-ireland-crbi.302.html seems to be a more reliable source.SovalValtos (talk) 13:45, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

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Adding images

I have been adding images, and hope to add more, but it could well be that some images added are not on target for the right organisation. One problem in finding images is that the categories in commons are not easy to follow to find what is required. If an editor with a better grasp of Commons cats could look at them it would help.SovalValtos (talk) 11:10, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

SV - it's excellent that you are finding these images. I find commons a bit like negotiating a maze in lead boots or looking for needles in haystacks and haven't ever got to grips with it. I wonder whether anyone has. T. Tony Holkham (Talk) 09:52, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

The categories did not help much, so I started doing simple searches in the 'Search Wikimedia Commons' box and looking at the results that contained the text rather than categories. I will try to continue when I have time.SovalValtos (talk) 10:28, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

SV - I have studied the Ballyheigue image, but cannot see any evidence of a lifeboat; a slipway, though, I think. But a pic of the village is better than no pic IMHO. I've found a news article that substantiates the service's existence. Cheers, T. Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:27, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

I am giving up looking for images for now. Republic of Ireland ones seem particularly elusive. Maybe by leaving the image space blank rather than adding a stopgap pic it might encourage a local editor to get their camera out. One lives in hope.SovalValtos (talk) 09:30, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Blyth removal

I see that User:Rossh1 has removed Blyth . Is there a reason to exclude defunct lifeboats? The term current is always a hostage to fortune so that is not a good way to go. I would prefer to see closed stations included with their closure referenced. "seems to have vanished circa 2015" is not sufficient as a ref IMHO.SovalValtos (talk) 03:36, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

It's difficult to prove non-existence, so maybe Blyth should be retained until proof (either way) can be found, though I have no strong feelings about it. As the instigator of this list, I didn't use the word "current", though its purpose was to cover that minority of rescue services not run by the RNLI so, by implication, current. It's a dynamic list, so if Blyth resurfaces, it can be found in history. Alternatively, as there is an RNLI Blyth, Blyth Rescue may go by an entirely different name now. Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:05, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

It was called Blyth All Weather Lifeboat until at least September 2016 (when the fund-raising cafe was on tripadvisor), when the boat went into private ownership and ended up at Wells-next-the-Sea (I photographed it there in I think 2018). Wells RNLI has this pic of it. After 2016, I cannot find any info on the rescue service (yet). Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:26, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

The most recent Twitter entry is May 2018. Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:33, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

I have replaced Blyth without waiting for User:Rossh1 to respond as they are an infrequent editor. See WP:RECENT there is little chance of frequent checking of all entries to check they are current.SovalValtos (talk) 21:36, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

I would be happy to see former independent stations included. They would need to be clearly marked as such, or perhaps they would need a new 'Defunct independent lifeboats stations' section? I doubt that we could ever be certain that the list was complete but that is no reason why we shouldn't try. Geof Sheppard (talk) 16:17, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

NILA

Tony If you hadn't seen... https://nila.org.uk National Independent Lifeboat Assoc. MartinOjsyork (talk) 16:58, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Britain

For clarity in the title, "Britain" can both mean Great Britain or the United Kingdom, but an important distinction. So should the title change, to Independent lifeboats in Great Britain and Ireland or Independent lifeboats in the United Kingdom and Ireland? DankJae 10:46, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

It can be a sensitive issue, but the title is geographical, not political, and one which was discussed soon after the creation of the article. It depends whether all lifeboat stations fall under either the UK or Ireland (e.g. Jersey). I'm happy with it as it is. Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:54, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

@Tony Holkham, understood. Yes, Jersey is not part of Great Britain or the UK. While I hoped such distinction of Jersey is minor, I guess it is minimally more connected to a vague concept of "Britain" and "British". I guess the result of its complex situation, as adding "Channel Islands" to the title would be more of an issue. So the vagueness is intentional. Very well. DankJae 11:11, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

@DankJae, thanks. Intentional vagueness is an important tool in this sensitive age, isn't it? ;o) Tony Holkham (Talk) 11:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Maybe the cover all solution, is to name the page Independent Lifeboats in the British Isles, which would then cover all UK and Ireland, AND the crown dependencies of CI and IOM.

Martin Ojsyork (talk) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Unfortunately not, Martin, as some Irish people tend not to like Ireland being included in the British Isles, geographically or not. I guess we must accept that, which is why it is as it is. T. Tony Holkham (Talk) 13:43, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria

I think the article has grown into something more than it should be, with any lifeboat group given an entry in the tables as long as a reference can be found to show that "it exists".

Wikipedia is not a directory WP:NOTDIR.

This list should be a list of independent lifeboat group articles, not a list of every extant independent lifeboat group. Essentially, it a group is going to be notable to be included in this list then it should have a Wikipedia article (WP:WTAF).

Thoughts? 10mmsocket (talk) 21:19, 11 September 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure what is meant by "lifeboat group article". For example, SARA has six stations, all different characteristics and locations, and are listed separately because of that. They do not (yet) have articles of their own, but Ojsyork is creating articles for notable stations at a rate of knots, so maybe we should wait a while? Tony Holkham (Talk) 21:49, 11 September 2025 (UTC)

Hi @10mmsocket

'Independent lifeboats in Britain and Ireland' is quite rightly, not meant to be just a list of groups. It is meant to be a list of articles, just like the List of RNLI stations, and List of former RNLI stations. But like the RNLI and former RNLI stations lists were 2 years ago, the majority of articles just don't exist yet.

Its just a bit of Chicken and Egg. If we don't first create a list, there is nothing to work to.

I've just added two groups that weren't even known to us.

I created over 240 articles for RNLI and former stations in the last 21 months, and their lists are now virtually complete. I am now turning my attentions to Independent lifeboats. It may not be clear from the page history, but if you check my contribution history, you'll find three new articles this week.

Just takes time.

MartinOjsyork (talk) 21:51, 11 September 2025 (UTC)

Consider me silenced on this topic! I look forward to seeing your efforts. 10mmsocket (talk) 05:59, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

Coast Medic

There are several references to this organisation working closely with the coastguard and RNLI lifeboats, but I can find no reference to this organisation actually operating their own lifeboat.

I have therefore deleted them from the list.

MartinOjsyork (talk) 08:38, 13 September 2025 (UTC)

Format

With regard to adding NILA and HM Coastguard references, I have updated Channel Is. as an example. Your comments ideas please. Martin Ojsyork (talk) 10:27, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

Looks sensible to me. Tony Holkham (Talk) 10:35, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

It's an improvement on what was there originally as it conveys the information in a more concise manner than previously. However it doesn't allow for sorting (on NILA membership, for example) and I'm one of those people who regularly uses sorting on columns to present tables in a way that makes them more useful to me. For me more columns with less information in each is the way to go. 10mmsocket (talk) 12:15, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

Whilst I accept we can have tables of any size, generally we are bound by the page size.

If sortable columns are employed, we really need to assess whether there is suitable information worth sorting.

Do we really need to sort whether an organisation is a 'Declared facility' or a member of NILA. I'm inclined to think not.

Martin Ojsyork (talk) 12:51, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

Great - if that information isn’t important then we can remove it from the table.

</sarcasm>

The point is valid though - if it’s important enough to be in the table, why wouldn’t it be important enough to sort? And how do you know other readers are or are not interested? It’s standard practice across Wikipedia for common information like this to be split into columns. If a piece of information applies to everything in the table, and varies by entry, then that’s the most logical way to structure the table. Danners430 _{tweaks made} 12:54, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

I'm happy to see the tables sortable — those <br/> tags are a nightmare for people using screen readers and can easily lose their usefulness if we aren't careful about forcing word wrapping. I would question whether details such as NILA membership, Coastguard and Charity Commission status are important enough to be included here? Put it in the organisation's article when it exists, but let's not get bogged down in unnecessary detail which makes for bloated tables. Geof Sheppard (talk) 17:17, 21 September 2025 (UTC)

Great points. Less is more! 10mmsocket (talk) 07:33, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

First off, I like {{ ubl | ...

It works for me, not come across it before. Thankyou @10mmsocket

There are no more < br / > entries on this page, already working to remove others.

I think recording as a Coastguard 'declared facility/resource' is key information. To meet the criteria can be expensive for independents, and is something they are rightly proud.

Equally, I think NILA (and CRS and CRBI in Ireland) should be recorded, as being part of an umbrella group also shows some desire to achieve a level of standard.

However, on reflection, Registered Charity should be removed. Initially there was a smattering of entries with this recorded, so I completed one for each location. It helps with creating articles, but otherwise it doesn't add anything. If everyone is happy, I'll make it disappear!

Martin Ojsyork (talk) 09:01, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

Seems reasonable. You could leave the {{EW charity}} references in there though as they a) confirm that the group exists and b) confirm useful things like date established. Just move the ref over with the others on the same row. 10mmsocket (talk) 12:17, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

Just to point out that Charity registration date seems to rarely coincide with establishment date. Ojsyork (talk) 15:56, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

OK.

In the absence of any concensus so far, I have modified the Scottish section, for consideration.

I'm not sure I'm entirely happy with a list of Yes (and now No, I don't like blanks).

I do prefer (DL) and (NILA) references under the name of the organisation, but for now I've left a NILA column, and tidied up Reg Charity (although I'm still not entirely convinced that should stay).

Martin Ojsyork (talk) 08:22, 23 September 2025 (UTC)

Extra organisations in Ireland

Just come across this list of extra organisations in Ireland. Too much for me to research all at once, help reqd.

| Boyle Anglers SAR, Co. Roscommon |- | Carna, Co Galway |- | Cork River Rescue |- | Drogheda River Rescue and Recovery Service – Boyne River |- | Dundalk, Co Louth |- | Erne Search & Recovery |- | Fermoy SAR, Co Cork |- | Grainneuaile Sub Aqua Club |- | Kildare SAR |- | Lahinch, Co Clare |- | Lanesborough, Lough Ree, Co Longford |- | Lough Finn, Co Donegal |- |- |} Ojsyork (talk) 19:54, 23 September 2025 (UTC)

Red Seal Rescue Safety Boats

I've been looking at Red Seal Rescue Safety Boats, of Tyne Haven, Tynemouth.

Their work involves the provision of safety boats for events. Typically, they cover events for Tyne & Tyne United Rowing Clubs, Northern Rowing Council and Bassenthwaite Sailing Club, and other events such as 2025 Junior Great North Run at Newcastle quayside.

I'm inclined to think that this doesn't really fit the criteria of Lifeboat??, and maybe shouldn't be included on the Independent page??, but I'm not going to jump in and delete without a general concensus.

Martin Ojsyork (talk) 22:00, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

I would agree. There are a lot of yachting and rowing clubs with safety boats for their members and events, but I would not consider them as a Lifeboat (rescue) unless the club provided a more general service to the public. Geof Sheppard (talk) 13:01, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

I agree, too. Tony Holkham (Talk) 14:56, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

T'is done

Meanwhile, I've added a few off that list of Irish organisations (above), but would appreciate some reviewing, and adding to the main list, or deleting off the list above.

MartinOjsyork (talk) 15:50, 30 September 2025 (UTC)

Lancaster Area Search and Rescue (SLSGB)

Another one for you to cast your eyes over.

Do we maintain this in the independent lifeboat list? Seems more of a overall search / rescue organisation, with the use of a boat if necessary, flood rescue etc.

Martin Ojsyork (talk) 16:11, 4 October 2025 (UTC)

I would say it is not an independent lifeboat service. There is a pic of a van and boat on a beach, but it is based well inland and calls itself flood rescue. Tony Holkham (Talk) 16:17, 4 October 2025 (UTC)

I think it can go too!

Martin Ojsyork (talk) 17:38, 4 October 2025 (UTC)

A tricky fine judgement re inclusion. Just being based inland does not in itself rule it out. Struggling for life in a loch, a flood, or a river in London one would be equally grateful for a boat service saving life. I have not seen the website with 'pic of a van and boat on a beach'. This is not opposing its removal from the article but there should be a way with dealing with such.SovalValtos (talk) 19:46, 4 October 2025 (UTC)

The website was facebook (not RS of course). Tony Holkham (Talk) 20:12, 4 October 2025 (UTC)

@SovalValtos

I don't think we're opposed to river rescue. Plenty of those on the list, esp in Ireland, and now plenty with RNLI stations, such as the Thames of course.

And there is no intention of demeaning what they offer.

But whether they fulfill the brief of an Independent Lifeboat Service is a fair question.

I'm meeting the chap who started NILA on Monday, so I'll maybe discuss what criteria they have.

Martin Ojsyork (talk) 20:33, 4 October 2025 (UTC)