Talk:Velcro

Velcro

The bur illustrated is not a species of Burdock. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.96.11.192 (talk) 05:51, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Please remove commonly known as "velcro"Italic text from the article as this is a misuse of the VELCRO (R) Brand Trademark.

Many thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.166.152 (talk) 15:34, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Also please remove use of word 'velcro' from following sentence: However, this reinforced the view among the populace that Velcro was something with very limited utilitarian uses change to read 'hook and loop'

Add 'Companies' after the word Velcro here: The next major use Velcro saw was with skiers,

After the words 'Today the' please insert ' VELCRO(R) Brand Today, the trademark

remove reference to 'Velcro' here and replace with 'Cheaper versions of hook and loop fasteners' This clothing may be damaged when one attempts to remove the Velcro

Change 'Velcro' reference to 'hook and loop' In the fictional universe of Star Trek, Velcro was invented by the Vulcans.

Please change the following:

Velcro gained popularity in many new styles of use when a 1984 interview between David Letterman and the Velcro Corporation’s USA director of industrial sales ended with Letterman jumping off a trampoline onto a wall while wearing a Velcro suit.

Change to read as follows:

The VELCRO(R) Brand gained popularity in many new styles of use when a 1984 interview between David Letterman and the Velcro Corporation's USA Director of industrial sales ended with Letterman jumping off a trampoline on to a wall whilst wearing a suit made out of VELCRO(R) brand hook and loop.

Please change the following:

In 1992, Velcro was mentioned in the sitcom Seinfeld, episode "The Wallet", where Jerry's father, Morty Seinfeld, states that he hates Velcro, due to the distinctive sound it makes when the two sides are being separated: "The Velcro! I can't stand Velcro! That tearing sound!"

Change to read as follows:

In 1992, the VELCRO(R) Brand was mentioned in the sitcom Seinfeld, episode "The Wallet", where Jerry's father, Morty Seinfeld, states that he hates hook and loop, due to the distinctive sound it makes when the two sides are being separated: "The Velcro! I can't stand Velcro! That tearing sound!"

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.166.152 (talk) 15:49, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trademarks#General rules for Wikipedia's policy on use of the ® symbol. Maproom (talk) 15:52, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

The Sienfeld stuff is a direct quote! It could be altered to from "hates" to "doesn't like the sound", but you're asking for a fabrication of the source. - X201 (talk) 16:01, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 13 June 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus to move the page to Hook-and-loop fastener, per the discussion below. It also appears that a multimove request involving Velcro would be likely to succeed, but as noted here, the Velcro page was not notified of this discussion. Since whether or not to move to Velcro remains a sticking point, I'd suggest another discussion before peeling either page from the hooks that hold it to its current title. Dekimasuよ! 14:57, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

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Hook and loop fastener → Hook-and-loop fastenerHook-and-loop fastener – Consistent hyphenation. nagualdesign 16:41, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

• Support this move 2601:541:4500:1760:C943:E72:6090:5A77 (talk) 21:52, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
• Correct, but, the title should be at velcro. It is a generic trademark, patent long expired, we all know what velco is and the current and proposed title fails COMMONNAME, fails RECOGNIZABILITY. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:12, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
  • The Velcro Industries company brand lawyers are in apoplecty. So funny. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:36, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

True. Despite the verbose post above by an IP, Velcro is very definitely a genericized trademark. If it were up to me this page would be titled Velcro, per COMMONNAME, and the Velcro article would be titled Velcro Companies, per the lead of that article. If anyone wants to make that a formal suggestion I'd be happy to add my support. On this occasion I just wanted to make what I thought was a minor, non-controversial move but when I tried to do it myself there was a problem. nagualdesign 20:48, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

• Move to Velcro per WP:COMMONNAME and move Velcro to Velcro Companies. Rreagan007 (talk) 22:51, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support move to Hook-and-loop fastener; Velcro should be used for the brand and company. The Velcro lawyers do have a point; Velcro Industries B.V. has several registered trademarks for the word "Velcro". Band-Aid has its own article even though it's often used generically to refer to bandages.) Trivialist (talk) 01:19, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Trade marks mean little. The velcro trade mark can’t be defended on any velcro product. A big difference is that there are many adhesive bandages sold as such, not as band-aids, but no one sells or talks of hook and loop fasteners except for the Velcro Company brand lawyers, who can’t even take themselves seriously, and the fact is that the current and proposed titles are unrecognisable. —SmokeyJoe (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:39, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

    No one sells or talks of hook and loop? What about 3M? Dicklyon (talk) 03:55, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

• Move to Velcro per common name, etc. per Rreagan007. Precedent: Frisbee. We really don't care that much whether something's a trademark, if the common usage is overwhelmingly a genericized usage of the trademark for the entire class of products.
  If not moved to Velcro, then support, per MOS:HYPHEN and WP:CONSISTENCY and, well, basic English punctuation norms (i.e., per WP:Common sense).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  03:07, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support – I think a properly punctuated generic, which is perfectly common in sources, is better than using the trademark term even if that's more well known. Just like we have Facial tissue, rather than Kleenex. Dicklyon (talk) 03:49, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Excluding the company source, the top references are using the genericised velcro in a prominent introductory manner. They would be doing this for reasons of recognition. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:02, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

The company's lawyers are begging you not to]. Dicklyon (talk) 03:50, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

That's their job. Is this IP one of them, I wonder? Andrewa (talk) 04:25, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

• Move to Velcro. It's a classic case of a genericised trademark, it's even given as an example in that article. However, this should not happen until a heads-up is posted at the target, as that article will also need to move. Andrewa (talk) 04:31, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

  Indeed, we would at least need a multi-RM discussion if that's what we wanted to do. But see List of generic and genericized trademarks#List of protected trademarks frequently used as generic terms where it's listed as still protected. Dicklyon (talk) 04:35, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

• Comment - Can we just please move the page to Hook-and-loop fastener for now, as requested, since it's been over a week and the move would be completely uncontroversial? After that, if people wish to discuss things endlessly they can, and I can just leave you all to it. Life's too short to necessitate multi-RM discussions about an article title, in my opinion (although I very much enjoyed that video, Dicklyon). Cheers. nagualdesign 05:00, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support moving to hyphenated name. CapitalSasha ~ talk 06:24, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Post move

In view of some comments above I've raised a question on the Meta ... but that page doesn't seem terribly active. Is there a better place? Andrewa (talk) 14:55, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

The village pump, maybe? Or perhaps just re-post what you've posted above at the help desk. I'm sure that somebody there will point you in the right direction, and unlike other venues you won't just get a flat "This is not the right place to ask that sort of thing". I hope that helps. Or better yet, ask SMcCandlish. nagualdesign 18:26, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

This is not just an en:Wikipedia issue, so the pump is not the eventual place to discuss, that's why I went to the Meta... but in view of the lack of response there, maybe someone at the pump can suggest a better place. I'll try it. Andrewa (talk) 01:38, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

• The non-trademark phrase options are not appropriate. No on uses them. Everyone refers to velcro as the fasting option used to velco things together, usually at a very low end, notably toddler's shoes. If the kid can't tie their shoelaces, get velcro shows again. Velco uses hooks and loops? Interesting, they are so small I don't think many notice. Calling the kids shoes "hook-and-loop fastened" shows would be weird and confusing, I have no expectation that the sales assistant would guess what I am talking about. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:52, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Exactly. We are a general encyclopedia, and we're supposed to use English as it is spoken, not as corporate spin doctors want it spoken. Andrewa (talk) 05:11, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

I had started a discussion already, still open, at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Trademark mis-use. Dicklyon (talk) 02:56, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, you're way ahead of me. (I only looked at the archives.) Andrewa (talk) 05:13, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Previous discussions

Just to put these somewhere:

• Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 65#Using a trademark as a generic product name - on-topic and completely inconclusive
• Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 68#Varying matters regarding trademarks - discusses trademarks as images rather than as text
• Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 85#Nobody watching Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (trademarks)? - not relevant as the MOS deals only with style of TMs not whether to use them, but Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Trademarks#Spell out advice on avoiding yet-to-be-generic trademark names? is relevant
• Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 93#Trademarks - on-topic and very interesting, somehow didn't come up in my search but the one below links to it
• Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 93#Use of non-genericized trademarks
• Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 131#What is our approach to trademarks in this difficult case?

I got no hits in other pump sections.

User:Masem/Trademarks and User talk:Masem/Trademarks are also relevant, but the proposal appears to have lapsed for lack of interest. Andrewa (talk) 02:41, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

• In scrabble, velcro is accepted.. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:57, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 11 November 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bobby Cohn 🍁 (talk) 21:22, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

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Hook-and-loop fastener → Velcro – Pretty blatant example of a generic trademark. Rename per WP:COMMONNAME. ThanatosApprentice (talk) 20:26, 11 November 2025 (UTC)

• Support: clear and obvious move. Never heard this referred to as anything else. YorkshireExpat (talk) 20:46, 11 November 2025 (UTC)
• oppose until some very strong reliable sources show that Velcro has become generic for what we call Hook and loop fastener. (for the record, I think it has gone that far.) Walter Ego 23:47, 11 November 2025 (UTC)
• Support: Text book generic trademark --Bayoustarwatch (talk)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME: It is not Wikipedia's job to protect a third-party trademark. I'm very sure that if I made a comment to the average person about hook-and-loop fasteners, I would be greeted with a puzzled reaction unless I immediately clarified that I was referring to Velcro. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:40, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
• Support per common name and generic trademark arguments above. Skynxnex (talk) 02:08, 12 November 2025 (UTC)
• Support. There was also widespread support for Velcro at the 2018 discussion above; it seems that that one stalled out due to procedural issues. Better late than never. 162 etc. (talk) 20:54, 12 November 2025 (UTC)

Support, as I have never heard the term "hook-and-loop fastener" used outside of Wikipedia. — Will • B ^[talk] 02:04, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

If this move passes, should we also spell "velcro" as lowercase (in the body of the article), not a proper noun? I don't think most people even realize it's a brand. — Will • B ^[talk] 02:08, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

I'd personally go with the lowercase spelling unless referring to the actual company ThanatosApprentice (talk) 04:28, 15 November 2025 (UTC)

Support. Generic trademark, for decades. When things are velcroed together, everyone knows what it means and no one is thinking hook and loops. SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:20, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

https://doi.org/10.1177/0265407516660216 SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:26, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

I took a look. What do you think this link is telling us? What did I miss? - Walter Ego 11:04, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

Google tells me it contains “were velcroed together and creatively carried a ball through an obstacle course”, but I haven’t yet been able to get around the paywall to verify. SmokeyJoe (talk) 20:48, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

Google ngram “were velcroed”. Capital V Velcroed in a sentence shows writers confused by the company legal team’s campaign. SmokeyJoe (talk) 20:53, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

• oppose Velcro is one the companies that makes hook and loop fasteners.Pkgx (talk) 18:35, 15 November 2025 (UTC)

  True. If you look at any haberdashers display rack here in the UK, you will find that HALT and HALF are on sale, supplied by a number of manufacturers, including Velcro. None of them use the name Velcro for the product, all use the names HALT or F. (Hook and loop tape or fastener). Is this because of the highly litigious nature of the company, Velcro, I wonder? They appear to take this stance in many countries.

  If this goes the way of the that it appears to be going, may I suggest that any editer who makes this change does it through a VPN, because of the Portuguese problem. That way, even the WMF cannot give you up to the authorities.

  I have to say though that the competance of the legal team at Velcro is questionable, as they allowed dont say velcro to be unleashed on an innocent public who believe that velcro is the name of the product. (Those are links to youtube videos. they are harmless. I dont do rickrolling any more - ) Walter Ego 19:16, 15 November 2025 (UTC)

  Even so, it's become a generic trademark and is the most widely-used term among the general public. ThanatosApprentice (talk) 01:25, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

  My research indicates that “velcro” has been used as a noun for the fastening product from the very beginning, across journalism, government/technical reports, and even by the trademark owner itself.

  1. Contemporary reporting treated “Velcro” as a noun from its earliest introduction (1950s).

  A 1958 United Press article announcing the product describes Velcro explicitly as the thing itself, not a brand modifier:

  “Its American maker calls it Velcro, the man-made cocklebur of nylon.”

  “Cocklebur Latest Clothing Fastening Device,” Williams Daily News, Dec. 26, 1958.

  https://www.newspapers.com/article/williams-daily-news-cocklebur-latest-clo/185066284/  (accessed November 17, 2025)This shows that mainstream newspapers immediately interpreted Velcro as the name of the fastening material, not as “Velcro® Brand Hook-and-Loop Fastener.”

  2. NASA technical documentation adopted the same usage in the 1960s–70s.

  NASA engineering reports repeatedly use velcro as the generic noun for hook-and-loop fasteners. Example from Apollo 15 (1971):

  “The velcro used to tie down the loose end of the seat belt prevented the seat belt from being lengthened.”

  Saturn V Launch Vehicle Flight Evaluation Report, AS-510, Apollo 15 Mission, Oct. 28, 1971.

  NASA NTRS Archive.

  https://archive.org/details/NASA_NTRS_Archive_19730025086 (accessed November 17, 2025)

  3. The trademark owner itself used “Velcro” as a noun.

  In a 1983 nationally syndicated article (Chicago Sun-Times / Kenosha News), Velcro USA’s own vice president used “Velcro” in unmistakably generic terms:

  “There’s about four or five miles of Velcro on a 747.”

  — Manny Cardinale, VP of Sales, Velcro USA

  “Velcro: Science Imitates Nature,” Kenosha News, Jun. 20, 1983.

  https://www.newspapers.com/article/kenosha-news-velcro-science-imitates-na/185063180/This is classic trademark generic drift:

  When even the trademark owner uses the word as a noun for the product, it shows how widespread and primary that meaning has become.

  I did a newspaper.com search for (“velcro” fastener”  1950 – 2025 )  85,073 matches vs  A newspaper.com search for ("Hook-and-loop" fastener  1950 – 2025 ) 2,864 matches

  ---Bayoustarwatch (talk) 16:06, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is one of the very few cases where I would believe that the technical name of the item supersedes any WP:COMMONNAME brand name for the product. Quite frankly, the word "Velcro" doesn't explain what the product is as eloquently as the current title does. With that being said, it does make sense that Velcro targets this article, but it should not be the name of the article. Steel1943 (talk) 22:23, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

  The title should be what it's referred to, not an explanation of what it does. ThanatosApprentice (talk) 23:03, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

  Yep, that's what the current title does; it is one of its names, and it's the most descriptive. Steel1943 (talk) 23:56, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

  Descriptive or not, that's not the widely-used term. ThanatosApprentice (talk) 03:42, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

  ...My initial comment already refuted this point. Steel1943 (talk) 08:18, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

  But why should a descriptive term be prioritized over a more common one? Every native English speaker knows what velcro is. ThanatosApprentice (talk) 19:11, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

  ...Please refer to my initial statement and drop the WP:BLUDGEON. Steel1943 (talk) 20:35, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

  I don't think the current title is a very natural descriptor for the purposes of most people. The hooks and loops of Velcro are so small that they are basically not apparent or visible to most people who are familiar with the material. I think that if you asked most people to show you a hook-and-loop fastener, they would dig up a example that is a hook-and-eye closure. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:33, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

  ... and if they looked at the packaging, all the hook and loop fastening would be labelled "HALF" or "HALT", and the word "velcro" would only appear on the Velcro Brand product as manufacturer, not the thing itself. This would indicate that the product isn't called velcro.

  People unfamiliar with the product would call it "HALT or F" were they to look at the labelling. Yes? Simples. Walter Ego 18:54, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

• Support Per nom, Wikipedia is WP:NOTCENSORED and is therefore not obliged to protect trademarks from becoming generic. That's the company's job, but I think in this instance it's way too far gone to go back given its common use as a noun for decades. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 09:22, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.