Talk:Glenn Youngkin

Article length

@PerpetuityGrat: - Pinging to discuss your concern that the article is too long. As I've expressed before, my belief is that many Wikipedia articles on governors, including most articles on prior Virginia governors, are far too short. If there's specific information that you think should be cut, then I'm open to spinning some details off into a separate Governorship of Glenn Youngkin article, which is an approach that has been taken with lots of other articles about governors.

It should be noted though, that Virginia has a part-time legislature, which generally meets only for the first few months of each year. So there's naturally going to be a flurry of activity in Virginia politics from January through about April, followed by a lull throughout the rest of the year. The concern was expressed that this article is currently too long for someone who's only been in office for a few months. But, due to the divided legislature, most of Youngkin's actions have come through executive orders, which tend to be most prevalent during the start of a politician's term in office. And there's likely to be a minimal amount of legislation getting passed next year, since - barring special elections - the makeup of the state legislature won't change until 2024. So the article's current length shouldn't be viewed solely through the context of how long Youngkin has spent in office to-date, but should also be viewed with the understanding that these past few months are likely to have been the most active part of what will be Youngkin's first two years in office.

There are still a few big topics that haven't been covered in this article yet that I'd like to add, but after that point, the article is unlikely to require any big expansions for quite awhile. Jpcase (talk) 02:09, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

According to NCSL, over half of legislatures are part-time—that is not abnormal. Looking at Washington's Jay Inslee, whose political career started in the 90s, I appreciate the organization. The sections covering each of his terms held in various positions are concise and organized, though I will concede that there is more content that could be added. My prime concern about the Youngkin article is the length because of the inclusion of so much detail. The Cabinet section and subsequent subsections, while important, probably won't fulfill the WP:10YEARTEST. I do appreciate the First year in office section, though a majority of what should be included there is scattered sporadically throughout the article. The 2021 gubernatorial election section is a section I deeply appreciate. I am open to creating article offshoots such as Governorship of Glenn Youngkin or something to that effect. I think the majority of the content in the article is fine and I am appreciative of its inclusion, though I am worried about WP:RECENTISM, WP:ONUS, and the articles length. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 14:49, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Distinguishing between which information should go in the "Governor of Virginia" section and which should go in the "Political positions" section has been a struggle for me. Details that pre-date Youngkin's inauguration, of course, should go in the latter, but details about actions that Youngkin has taken since the start of his term could arguably go in either. The Jay Inslee article solves this problem by not having a "Political positions" section at all.

Someone else made the decision to have a "Political positions" section in Youngkin's article, and while I do think that there are some benefits to having such a section, I agree that it leads to organizational issues. I'm not sure what the best solution to that is.

It makes sense to me actually for the article on Jay Inslee to offer only a brief summary of his governorship, because he's held a variety of different offices over the course of decades. His tenure as governor was part of a much larger career. The lack of a separate article devoted specifically to Inslee's governorship is a real shame though. Readers of Wikipedia with a particular interest in the politics of Washington state aren't going to find anything more than a very cursory overview of Inslee's time as governor, and I see that as a problem.

I recognize that my interest in Virginia politics goes beyond that of the average person. But Youngkin isn't a national figure, he's a state politician, and so - especially in the long-term - the typical reader of this article is likely to be quite interested in Virginia politics. Someone with no personal ties to Virginia, who only cares about Youngkin because they saw recent news coverage about the 2021 election, won't be interested in Youngkin's cabinet ten years from now. But it's very unlikely that such a person will be interested in Youngkin *at all* ten years from now, unless Youngkin goes on to hold additional office. And while major revisions to this article would certainly be needed if Youngkin ever does win a future election, it's premature to be thinking about that. So unless that happens, the type of person most likely to be reading this article ten years from now is someone who will probably want to know some of the finer details about Youngkin's governorship.

Speaking for myself, I'd love to learn all about the cabinets of prior Virginia governors. So what does or doesn't meet the ten-year test is pretty subjective. I do recognize that some of the details currently in this article might fit better in an article specifically about Youngkin's governorship, and I'm open to going that route. But I'm not sure if we need to cross that bridge just yet. Like I said, by the end of this April, I don't anticipate that Youngkin's article will need many big additions through the rest of the year, and the article may not even need many additions next year either. --Jpcase (talk) 19:42, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

I too have an interest in learning more about a gubernatorial cabinet and the confirmation process, among other things, but we're at a point where whenever Youngkin is mentioned in the media, that content is incorporated into the article. And not every verifiable piece of information needs to be present in a WP article. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 19:48, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

My feeling is that the article should be covering most major news stories about Youngkin's policies. I'm mainly relying on major publications though, like The Washington Post and The Richmond Times-Dispatch. If a topic is covered exclusively in smaller outlets, then I'm not bothering to include it here in Youngkin's article. And plenty of news stories about Youngkin have been reported that have nothing to do with his policies; I've largely avoided including those here. For example, numerous major publications wrote entire articles about how Youngkin mistook one prominent Black female Virginia state senator for another. (See The Guardian, The Washington Post The Richmond-Times Dispatch, Business Insider, and The Associated Press) And The Washington Post has multiple articles about a conflict between Youngkin and another state legislator. Those stories could be perceived as important by some people, and I may, at some point, want to write something very general about Youngkin's relationship with the state legislature, but I do feel that detailing individual conflicts between Youngkin and specific legislators would be a definite overkill of information, so I've intentionally left those stories out of the article. Even the Ethan Lynne controversy, which I do think is notable enough for one or two sentences somewhere in the article, isn't something that I added to the article myself.

That said, I do think it's important to keep in mind Recentism as a positive. There's no way to know how certain news stories will develop, so I do think there's value in detailing lots of notable stories as they happen. Otherwise, details that may gain greater relevance down the road could be forgotten and important context from those stories could be lost. As long as those stories have been covered by major news outlets and pertain to Youngkin's policies, then I do think they'll remain relevant in the future to anyone seeking a historical understanding of Youngkin's governorship.

If I'm hearing you correctly, it sounds like you don't have an issue with specific content so much as the article's length in general. I can appreciate that concern and do want to ensure that the article isn't overwhelming for readers. My feeling though, is that article length should only matter so much, as long as everything is relevant and well-organized. No one has to read the entire article if they don't want to. If someone is interested only in the Tipline or Youngkin's stance on charter schools, then they can easily navigate to the respective sections of the article that are about those topics. And if someone's looking for a very basic, broad overview of Youngkin's governorship, then that's what the lead is for. If you want to work with me on crafting a lead for the article, then that would a worthwhile addition to the article. Still, I should reiterate that I'm very much open to spinning some information off into a separate article about Youngkin's governorship, if you think that would be worth doing. --Jpcase (talk) 20:40, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

My inclination at this point is to cut the "First Year in Office" section out of this article and to use it as the basis for starting Governorship of Glenn Youngkin. While I feel that the two paragraphs currently in that section - about Youngkin's response to inflation and the Virginia Association of School Superintendents response to Youngkin's education policies - are both noteworthy, they make more sense as supplementary reading for people with a particularly deep interest in learning about Youngkin's governorship. I'd be open to moving much of the cabinet information and perhaps some of the the inauguration details to the spin-off article as well, although I do feel that the sections covering Andrew Wheeler's nomination and Youngkin's restructuring of the Chief Diversity Officer position are uniquely notable and should remain here in this article - likewise for the sections on the Day 1 Executive Orders and the Tipline. I'd like to see the "Political positions" section remain mostly as it is, except for the "Criminal justice" subsection; that paragraph - about Youngkin's first veto - would probably be a better fit for the spinoff article.

There are still some additions that I'd like to make here at the main Youngkin article in the coming weeks, but the spinoff article should hopefully help ensure that the length of this article remains reasonable. --Jpcase (talk) 18:51, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I think all the moves so far are totally sufficient. Thank you for spearheading this! --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 17:44, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

this article is extremely long, so long as to be overwhelming. i'm a random dude but the article length on random politician is insanity or astroturfing. 173.174.75.3 (talk) 01:21, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

2020 election

Jpcase Youngkin failing to comment on the 2020 election isn't a political position that is still substantially covered in the media and therefore does not belong in that section. It was a matter of the 2021 campaign, and it is covered in that section in detail. After the 2021 campaign the issue was irrelevant to him, Virginia, the media, and his political opponents, while his views on abortion, taxes, race, covid-19 etc. are all still discussed. Bill Williams 12:51, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

News coverage about Youngkin does continue to discuss this. Fairly frequently. The quote that you removed was published nearly a full year after the 2021 campaign was over. You may personally consider the issue to be less relevant than others, but the fact that this continues to be discussed on a somewhat regular basis in news articles about Youngkin shows that political reporters do consider it to be among the more notable positions that Youngkin has taken throughout his career. Additionally, when sources like The Washington Post (or The Guardian, in this article published half-a-year after the election) say that Youngkin "flirted" with "conspiracy theories" or "false claims" about 2020, they aren't solely referring to his delay in acknowledging that Biden won the election; they're also referring to Youngkin's use of Amanda Chase as a campaign surrogate and his calls for a repeat audit of Virginia's 2020 election results. --Jpcase (talk) 15:20, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

It has zero to do with his "tenure and political positions" and shouldn't be at the top of the section, which implies it summarizes different elements of the section. It only relates to his gubernatorial campaign, and is already mentioned in that section. There is no reason to repeat the same thing in a separate section that is unrelated. Bill Williams 01:44, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

As I believe I've said in an earlier edit summary, political positions taken during a campaign are still political positions. And the top of the "Political positions and tenure" section was not intended to summarize its subsequent subsections in the way that the article's lead summarizes the body of the article, but rather, was intended to explain Youngkin's general place within the Republican Party's ideological spectrum. The varying responses taken within the Republican Party to 2020's election results, and to Trumpism in general, have been among the main dividing lines over the last several years within American conservatism. How Youngkin has engaged with those issues is highly relevant to his political positions, not just to his gubernatorial campaign. --Jpcase (talk) 04:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

It's extremely misleading to put something that was only relevant during his campaign in a section that is about all of his political views and his tenure as governor. Using direct quotes from sources about how Youngkin relates to Trump is just incredibly misleading and tells them nothing about Youngkin besides vaguely painting him as Trump. The entire section describes his positions in detail, so these quotes add nothing to the reader's benefit that isn't already in his gubernatorial campaign section. Bill Williams 05:53, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

At this point, we're just talking in circles. I understand that you consider this "irrelevant", and you have every right to feel that way. But our personal feelings shouldn't be determining how Youngkin's political career is covered. The article needs to reflect how sources have discussed Youngkin's career, and as I've pointed out, Youngkin's response to the 2020 election results continues to be frequently discussed by mainstream news outlets. If this had become irrelevant to journalists after the election, then they wouldn't still be writing about it so consistently.

I'm not interested in edit warring with you, which is why I've left a number of your edits unchanged, even though I disagree with them. I'm hoping that we can both be willing to give a little bit of ground on this. If you strongly feel that the top of "Tenure and political positions" shouldn't be mentioning political positions taken by Youngkin during his campaign (or his affiliation with Amanda Chase), then I won't continue to push back on that. What I'd ask in return is that the article's lead be left in its current state. --Jpcase (talk) 20:37, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with personal feelings, my point is that you are misrepresenting what is DUE and notable for the article. The sources never state that Youngkin calls himself an ally of Trump or Amanda Chase, and claiming that he does in the article is false. It is true that he has taken specific positions on Trump and the 2020 election, but putting that in the lead as if that is one of the most important things about Youngkin is absurd, because all it adds to the lead is "Youngkin disagrees with this one specific person." Bill Williams 23:14, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

I also am not going to edit war over the mentions over Trump at the top of the "Tenure and political positions" section, but I do not believe it should be mentioned there, because saying his positions are like Trump is not backed up by his actual positions. Trump has criticized Youngkin a number of times in the past month alone and it lists zero specific examples of how they have the same positions, therefore providing no benefit to the reader. Bill Williams 23:16, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

The New York Times and The Washington Post report the following:

• [Youngkin] worked early in the campaign to win Trump’s favor, and he received Trump’s endorsement immediately after his nomination.
• Republican candidate Glenn Youngkin and Trump repeatedly spoke by phone over the course of the campaign, according to people familiar with the conversations who were not authorized to speak publicly, allowing the two men to go the length of the contest without saying negative things about each other or clashing on strategy.
• After winning the G.O.P. nomination at a party convention in May, Mr. Trump endorsed him and Mr. Youngkin told a conservative radio host that he was honored. Yet while Mr. Youngkin’s top political aide, Jeff Roe, maintained a line of communication to Mr. Trump’s top political aide, Susie Wiles, the former president kept the Virginia campaign on edge in the weeks before Election Day. The two sides worked to arrange Mr. Trump’s “tele-rally” on the eve of the election, according to an aide to Mr. Youngkin, but there was no coordination on what the former president would say.

If "working to earn Trump's favor", saying that he was "honored" to accept Trump's endorsement, arranging to have Trump speak at a campaign rally for him, and coordinating with Trump on strategy doesn't mean that Youngkin has, at least at one time in his career, treated Trump as a political ally, then...how should one view all of those details about Youngkin? That Youngkin has never "called himself" an ally of Trump is irrelevant. The lead never stated that Youngkin "called himself an ally of Trump". The lead stated that Youngkin "positioned himself as an ally of Trump", and those quotes I just shared very clearly describe Youngkin treating Trump as a political ally.

That Trump "has criticized Youngkin a number of times in the past month" matters even less. Trump has criticized a lot of his political allies. He's even criticized Mike Pence. Would you argue that it's inaccurate to describe Pence as a Trump ally simply because Trump has made some statements criticizing Pence?

all it adds to the lead is "Youngkin disagrees with this one specific person" - this statement you made completely ignores the fact that Youngkin waited until almost half a year after the election before disagreeing with Trump on the election results. You may not consider that fact to be relevant. But news sources do consider it to be relevant. I've pointed you to several sources from mainstream news outlets that treat it is relevant. I've pointed you to recent sources from mainstream news outlets that treat it is as relevant. If you personally consider it "absurd" that news outlets continue to treat it as relevant, then well, that's your right. I'm not trying to convince you that it's relevant. I'm not asking you to agree with news outlets about what is and isn't relevant. I'm just hoping that you'll agree that when news outlets consistently treat a topic as relevant, we should consider that topic as relevant for the purposes of this article, even in cases where we may disagree with which topics those outlets choose to prioritize.

As for Amanda Chase, the source that was provided states that Youngkin "has nurtured a bond" with Chase and "treated Chase to an unorthodox, private bill-signing" even though Chase had been "on the outs" with most other Virginia Republicans. Then there's also the fact that Youngkin employed Chase as an official campaign surrogate, well after she had already been censured by Virginia Republicans. So again, the fact that Youngkin himself has never used the word "ally" to describe his relationship with Chase matters far less than the fact that news articles clearly and consistently describe Youngkin treating Chase as a political ally.

But as I've already said, I'm willing to leave mention of Chase out of the Political Positions section. I'm willing to leave statements about political positions taken by Youngkin during the campaign out of the Political Positions section. But I'm not okay with removing any mention of Youngkin's political association with Trump from the article's lead. --Jpcase (talk) 02:17, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

You need to self revert because you're using original research to make determinations that are not stated in the sources. Zero times do those two citations quote Youngkin "positioning himself as an ally," they simply state that he was happy to take Trump's endorsement, that's not that same thing at all and it's extremely disingenuous to treat them as such. You're using OR to make things DUE that are not due, like Youngkin's statement on the 2020 election, which again is something Youngkin disagrees with Trump on so the exact time he stated that belief is irrelevant. Unless you can find a reliable source that makes it notable, stop adding it to the article. Bill Williams 02:20, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

It should be removed as failing verification, because your quotes from "multiple sources" simply state that Youngkin worked to make sure he wasn't hated by the leader of the Republican party, which is something almost every primary candidate engages in. It never says he treated him as an ally, it just says he allowed Trump to hold a telerally for him and was okay with it occurring. You're adding editorialization to what the reliable sources state. Bill Williams 02:23, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

The sources never use the word "ally", but just because a specific word doesn't happen to appear in a source, doesn't mean it's OR to use that word when summarizing the source's statements. Arranging to have someone appear at a campaign rally is equivalent to treating that person as a political ally. Coordinating with someone on campaign strategy is equivalent to treating that person as a political ally. Anyone who is given a speaking slot at an official campaign rally is being treated as a political ally by the person running that campaign. Anyone who collaborates with a campaign on strategy is being treated as an ally by the person running that campaign. And not every Republican primary candidate has sought out Trump's endorsement. Most do, sure, but there are notable exceptions. Youngkin is not one of those exceptions. The suggestion that someone could accept an endorsement from a politician that they aren't treating as a political ally makes no sense.

In addition to all that, Youngkin has stated that he would support Trump if Trump is nominated by the Republican Party for another presidential term - a stance that several Republican politicians have not taken - and has spoken out vocally in defense of Trump after Trump became the subject of federal investigation. None of this means that Youngkin supports every single thing about Trump, which is why the lead also clearly states that Youngkin has distanced himself from Trump on some issues. But it is not OR to say that Youngkin has, at least up to this point in his career, treated Trump as a political ally. --Jpcase (talk) 03:14, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Zero sources show that Youngkin considers Trump to be his ally, and the source you provides never states this. You are interpreting the source in an extremely misleading way, because zero times does it state that they are allies using the term "ally" or any synonym of it. Working with Trump on individual things does not mean he considers Trump to be his ally, even Joe Manchin voted with Trump 50% of the time, should we add that they're allies to his article lead? Bill Williams 05:39, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

The reality is the Youngkin campaign was trying to stop Trump from having a primary role in the campaign and they convinced him to do the phone rally to shut him up. Now Youngkin is thinking about a run for the presidency and Trump's attacking him. Seems like a stretch to call them allies. This page also seems like it's overly negative towards Youngkin by repeatedly bringing up things he's done and juxtaposing it with how Democrats disagree, unions disagree (who are generally Democratic proxies like business groups are with the GOP), and 'look we found some experts who do as well' when you can find some sort of expert to agree or disagree with just about any remotely non-extreme position. The page brings up Youngkin's predecessor too much as well. Other political pages don't harp on about their predecessor like this one. I feel like a neutral set of editor(s) need to come in and correct some of this bias. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.116.83.14 (talk) 16:05, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

The reality is that Youngkin "worked early in the campaign to win Trump’s favor" and "repeatedly spoke by phone over the course of the campaign" with Trump "allowing the two men to go the length of the contest without saying negative things about each other or clashing on strategy." Those are direct quotes from mainstream news sources. I've seen no sources suggesting that Youngkin wanted to "shut Trump up".

I'm aware that Youngkin has kept a certain amount of public distance from Trump, but it's a verifiable fact that the two of them privately maintained close ties throughout the campaign. To suggest that those close ties are irrelevant simply because they were somewhat de-emphasized by Youngkin in public settings does not at all feel like a neutral argument - especially considering that Youngkin did make several pro-Trump statements in public. And if we're going to make comparisons with the Joe Manchin article, then well, that article does state in its lead that Manchin supported Trump on some key issues. So while I'm very open to debating the exact language that we use to describe Youngkin's ties to Trump, it would be inconsistent with the Manchin article to completely omit all mention of those ties from the lead of Youngkin's own article.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the suggestion that "working to earn" a politician's "favor", accepting that politician's endorsement, and coordinating with that politician on campaign strategy aren't each synonymous with treating the politician as an "ally". But I understand that "ally" is a strong term, and if the argument is that we should only use language that can be directly sourced, then I'm open to reworking the language. How would you feel about mentioning Youngkin's ties to Trump in the lead, so long as the language more closely matches the exact language used in available sources? --Jpcase (talk) 01:17, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

The IP's point is valid that Trump and Youngkin certainly are not "allies" and mentioning such a nonsensical thing in the lead is misleading to readers. Youngkin worked with Trump during his primary because Trump was the leader of the GOP, there is nothing about that making them "allies" and you have provided no sources that state they are allies. Unless you can provide any, it should stay out of the article. Bill Williams 04:51, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

I've already stated that I'm not attached to term "ally". But there are plenty of available sources out there describing Youngkin as close to Trump and Trumpism, using much more explicit terms than are used in the sources that I've already provided. If the lead describes Youngkin's political ties to Trump in terms matching those sources, would that solve your objections? Or is your position that the lead can't mention Trump in any context under any circumstances, regardless of what sources say about the two of them? --Jpcase (talk) 18:36, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

I have never seen an article about a Governor or any politician on Wikipedia leave out the actual vote count of the race. It was even another article written about Governor Youngkin, and it left out the actual votes also. Just as a point, the direction of the election for Governor changed towards Youngkin after the Democrats brought in President Obama to campaign against himEaseltine (talk) 16:41, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

Youngkin's Focus as Governor

The lead says, "As governor, Youngkin has focused heavily on culture war issues pertaining to race and gender identity in public education." We could phrase that more neutrally if it were true, so that it doesn't paint him as divisive, contentious, and confrontational. For example, something like, "As governor, Youngkin's legislative priorities have focused on issues pertaining to race and gender identity in public education." But, anyway, it's not correct; his priorities, agenda, and accomplishments have been more wide-ranging.

I recommend this detailed analysis: Rankin, Sarah and Price, Michelle. “Youngkin scores some legislative wins as he eyes White House”, Associated Press (12 Mar 2023).

Lots and lots of issues and accomplishments are discussed by AP, with only a little bit about race and gender or the like. According to the first three paragraphs of the AP analysis (emphasis added):

• He "has earned a series of wins, including measures taking a tougher stance against China"
• "But many of his legislative priorities, such as a push for more tax cuts, are tied up in budget negotiations."
• "Proposals to restrict abortion access or tighten penalties for criminals, were stymied by Democrats"

The remainder of the article described the rest of his priorities and agenda, not including those described above:

• "The first piece of legislation the governor has promoted with a formal bill-signing is one that aims to make it easier for licensed or experienced workers such as barbers and cosmetologists to move to Virginia and get straight to work.
• "[A] union and business-backed measure streamlining now-scattered workforce development programs under one agency, [was] among the measures he most pleased to see pass."
• “his proposal for a major boost in mental health spending and an expansion of childhood literacy and school innovation initiatives”
• "His administration has won praise from consumer advocates for the role it played in a compromise measure that would restore some oversight to regulators who set the rates and profitability of Dominion Energy.
• "[A] new definition of antisemitism in state code that supporters say will help the Virginia track and combat hate toward the Jewish community."
• "Youngkin cast Democrats as intransigent on 'commonsense' issues, including a bill he sought that would have allowed prosecutors to bring murder charges against drug dealers if a user dies of an overdose."
• "Youngkin and his wife, Suzanne, through her advocacy work, have made combating the threat of fentanyl a vocal priority."

Our lead says, "As governor, Youngkin has focused heavily on culture war issues pertaining to race and gender identity in public education." The term "culture war" isn't even mentioned in the body of the article, and I think this sentence of the lead is misleading and ought to be removed or rewritten. I would suggest something like, "As governor, Youngkin has taken a generally conservative stance, addressing culture war issues, toughening measures with regard to China, prioritizing tax cuts, tougher penalties for criminals, regulatory efficiency, educationsal and mental health initiatives, and fighting fentanyl and antisemitism." Anythingyouwant (talk) 05:35, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

The lead does mention other aspects of his governorship, such as tax cuts, and can certainly be expanded to discuss additional topics. But it's accurate to say that he has placed a special focus on culture war issues pertaining to education, so I don't think that should be changed. The body of the article actually does quote The New York Times using the term "cultural war zone" in relation to Youngkin's education policies. And here's a Washington Post article that refers to "Youngkin’s heavy focus on educational issues as governor", particularly in relation to "cultural matters". --Jpcase (talk) 06:18, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

It’s true that education was a key theme of Youngkin’s campaign. Per the WaPo article you mention: “Stephen Farnsworth, a political science professor at the University of Mary Washington, said Youngkin’s heavy focus on educational issues as governor is in line with his promises as a candidate.” But that heavy focus on education has been much broader than critical race theory. I’ve already pointed out above that Youngkin has supported an expansion of childhood literacy and school innovation initiatives, per Associated Press. Also, Youngkin has called for higher standards of accreditation in math, reading and history, and opposed “soft bigotry of low expectations.” Additionally, he has supported “a record investment in education including a significant boost in teacher pay”, plus more charter schools. So all of that supports Professor Farnsworth’s statement in WaPo about Youngkin’s heavy focus on education, quite apart from CRT. Regarding CRT, “the Virginia Department of Education has repeatedly insisted [it] is not taught in any Virginia classrooms,” which strongly suggests there is not so much a “war” about CRT in Virginia, so much as widespread consensus. CRT is only a small part of his overall heavy focus on education, as best I can tell. As for the NYT article you cite, it was written before Youngkin became governor (even before he was elected), so it is not very relevant in a sentence of our lead that begins "As governor...." Anythingyouwant (talk) 07:28, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Like any governor, Youngkin has supported a wide variety of policies. But a policy should only be summarised by the lead if that policy has (A) already been discussed a lot within the body of the article and (B) been widely covered by the news over a sustained period of time. The policies currently discussed in the lead largely reflect which policies have been discussed the most within the body of the article. And Youngkin's views on topics like CRT and transgender students have received far more news coverage than his views on, say, early childhood literacy. His views on charter schools are discussed a good amount in the article and something about that could perhaps be added to the lead, but it would arguably be premature, as no charter schools have actually been established in Virginia under Youngkin. In contrast, Youngkin has enacted real policy changes around issues like CRT, transgender students, mask mandates, and sexual topics within school curriculum. The lead's focus on education policy is not solely about cultural matters though, as increased funding for education is also discussed.

Youngkin's very first executive action was about racial equity programs, such as CRT. This was generally seen by major news sources as a sign of Youngkin's priorities as governor. And while CRT has never been taught in K-12 classrooms, it was discussed within training materials and such before Youngkin's term, which is why the lead says that the order "banned discussion within the state's school system" of CRT instead of saying that the order "banned teaching" of CRT. The "culture war" isn't about whether CRT should be taught in classrooms, it's about whether CRT, or more broadly, racial equity programs in general, should inform any aspects of state education policy.

To date, Youngkin has done one CNN Town Hall, which was held last March - about a year into his governorship. The town hall was officially called "The War Over Education". Youngkin discussed a lot of different educational policies in the town hall, not all of them cultural. But the very first lines of the program's introduction were: The war over education. It's turned schools into culture war battlefields.

The town hall was largely focused on culture war issues, and I can add it as a source to the article if it would help. I can also pull up more sources from the past year that mention Youngkin's focus on culture war issues, though I don't think it's really necessary. All of the culture war issues that were discussed in the cited New York Times source have continued to be a major focus of Youngkin's governorship, and the body of the article shows that with its extensive coverage of Youngkin's actions on those policies since he took office. --Jpcase (talk) 15:57, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

The lead's mention of a "heavy focus" was grabbed from a statement by a professor quoted by WaPo that Youngkin has had a "heavy focus on educational issues as governor". We have thus distorted the source. Additionally, if there's been a heavy focus in the media on culture war issues, that's not the same thing as the media saying Youngkin has heavily focused on culture war issues. In fact, they're very different things. So I disagree with this revert of yours. Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:29, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure I follow why you consider the statement a distortion of the source. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding you, but is it because the quote only mentions "educational issues" instead of specifying cultural educational issues? The statement from Farnsworth was made in the context of a larger discussion specifically about cultural issues. He immediately follows that quote with a statement about Youngkin's "efforts to lean in on cultural matters". So I do think that Farnsworth's statement supports the view that Youngkin has heavily focused on cultural issues. Yes, there are other notable aspects of Youngkin's education policies, particularly the increases to funding, but the budget is already discussed in the lead, so I think that there's a good overview of the main topics. --Jpcase (talk) 18:32, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

First, WaPo was not speaking in its own voice about Youngkin's "heavy focus", so we should probably provide in-text attribution. Second, that sentence of Farnsworth only mentions "educational issues" which we know from reliable sources have broadly been a top priority of Youngkin (described above). Farnsworth obviously wanted to characterize Youngkin's whole educational program as a heavy focus, rather than characterizing only a relatively small part of it that way. Just like Farnsworth, I do support mentioning in the lead Youngkin's CRT position, but not as though that alone was the subject of Youngkin's "heavy focus." It wasn't and isn't. Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:25, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Again, Farnsworth's statement was made in the context of a discussion that was very specifically about cultural issues, so I disagree with the idea that he wasn't talking specifically about cultural issues. But regardless, the lead isn't based solely on Farnsworth's quote; it's based on the totality of numerous news articles that are included as sources in the article. We have many, many sources about Youngkin's actions on cultural education issues, far fewer about most other aspects of his education policies. This doesn't mean his other education policies are unimportant, just that they have been less reported upon. And again, the lead should only summarize those policies of Youngkin's that have received major, sustained news coverage.

The lead doesn't say that CRT has been the lone subject of Youngkin's focus on education. Other cultural issues, such as gender, sexuality, and Covid are discussed, as is the non-cultural issue of school funding. And I'd be fine with adding more non-cultural education policies to the lead, so long as those policies have actually been enacted through legislation or executive action and have received a comparable amount of news coverage to the policies already mentioned in the lead. Currently, I don't think that there are any other education policies of Youngkin's that meet both of those criteria. If any charter schools are actually established in Virginia, then that would be a clear topic to include in the lead, but like I said, it's premature at the moment, as far less has actually happened on that issue than on issues like CRT, Covid policies, or the budget. --Jpcase (talk) 20:17, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I’m not going to keep arguing with you about this. For JFK most of the stuff written about him was about his death. That means his assassination belongs in his lead. It doesn’t mean we should say in that lead that most of his thoughts and concerns were about his own death and everything else he focused on was secondary to that. You’re conflating the heavy focus of reliable sources versus the heavy focus of the article subject. Plus putting words in Farnsworth’s mouth. Let’s see if anyone else has an opinion about it. Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:46, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

That is an untrue and absurd and irrelevant comparison. SPECIFICO talk 22:04, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

The point I'm trying to make is that there is more reporting on Youngkin's cultural policies than there is on his other policies expressly because reporters consider the cultural policies to be the ones that Youngkin has prioritized. If he hadn't placed a heavy focus on the topic, then there wouldn't be much to report on. If it would help to see a news article explicitly stating, without any ambiguity, that Youngkin has focused on culture wars issues pertaining to education, then I can understand and address that concern. Here are two more Washington Post articles, each published a year into Youngkin's term. In the first article, the reporter writes about Youngkin, "He has leaned into culture wars in K-12 education." In the second article, the reporter discusses Youngkin's stances on cultural education issues such as race and gender, then writes that Youngkin "has continued to center those stances in office". I can go ahead and work these sources into the body of the article. --Jpcase (talk) 22:23, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

To-Do

Adding this WaPo article as the governor's legacy begins to be created, discussed, etc https://wapo.st/4byfB5d Northern-Virginia-Photographer (talk) 14:01, 16 January 2026 (UTC)