Talk:Free Democratic Party

Vandalism

I have removed the following from the introductory section: "The party's motto is: Wer mehr weniger als 100.000 Euro verdient und FDP wählt, ist dumm, wer mehr verdient und FDP wählt, unmoralisch." Translated it means: "Whoever earns less than 100.000 Euros per year and votes for the FDP, is dumb, and whoever earns more and votes for the FDP is immoral". This quote implies that the FDP's opponents attack the FDP with their allegation that the FDP doesn't place any value on social justice, which is a factual error.

2013 election

I'm surprised there isn't more on this. going from 93 seats to none was a major event--both for the FDP and German politics as a whole. (29 May 2014)

Centre-right

Maybe we can write near Center-right “libertarian” ?

To not confuse with the more conservative center-right of the CDU. דולב חולב (talk) 10:54, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

This is not standard practice for the "position" parameter, and would unnecessarily crowd the infobox. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 14:52, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Requested move 28 February 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) 1isall (talk | contribs) 03:17, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

---

• Free Democratic Party (Germany) → Free Democratic Party
• Free Democratic Party → Free Democratic Party (disambiguation)

– WP:PRIMARYTOPIC of "Free Democratic Party". Consistently gets more pageviews than any other party of the same name combined since 2015, and it's not even close. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 02:59, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

Support It's clearly the primary topic of the name. Other articles with the name refer to parties that either no longer exist, or which have no legislative representation in their respective countries. I will also note that for the Free Democratic Party of Switzerland, its German-language name differs, and what English-language name used to refer to it can be ambiguous. Gust Justice (talk) 16:17, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

This probably makes sense given that sort of disparity of over 10 : 1 on average. Curious how there's so few clickstreams here that for example latest WikiNav doesn't render the top graph, there's just 9 in that month. I checked the archive and the only thing that's ever on the radar is the proposed primary topic, crossing the anonymization threshold 8 times in the last 12 months. (Support) --Joy (talk) 22:05, 5 March 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Political Position

I have noticed that in recent months the political position of the FDP has fluctuated between centre-right, centre to centre-right, and centre. I personally believe it should be centre-right, but I believe the community must reach a consensus on the matter to prevent further edits to it. Sorry if I am writing this in the wrong place, I am relatively inexperienced on Wikipedia. Tinmop84 (talk) 20:41, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

@Tinmop84 I think the position in the infobox should be reconsidered. It's against Wikipedia principles to ignore numerous sources that describe the FDP as a centrist party, including the Encyclopedia Britannica. This party is no different at all from parties like Ciudadanos and Rennaissance, whose position is described as "centre to centre-right". On the contrary, there are sources that describe the FDP as a centre-left party. For these reasons I ask for the revision of the previous consensus. --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 11:28, 31 May 2026 (UTC)

can you please link the sources that call the FDP centre left?

Couse If there are sources then we should defintly call the FDP centrist to centre Right ~2026-32853-93 (talk) 16:26, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

There are several examples of this: the FDP is "centrist, a smaller party with politically progressive but economically conservative values" (); "classical liberals would present a firm economic liberalism and a centre-left position on cultural issues (e.g. the German FDP) (); another source describe the FDP as "centre-left liberals" (); the social liberal wing of the FDP in 1966 highlighted German liberalism's democratic and progressive tradition that overrode national-liberals' anti-Communism" (); another source: "in the early 1970 the nationalist strain largely left the party, so throughout the 1970s the FDP could be more comfortable in the center-moderate left coalition with the SDP" (); then "the FDP, ever since its Freiburg congress in January 1968, ad acquired such a progressive image in matters of Germany policy, eastern policy, and domestic reform that it now had more in common with the SPD than with the Union" (). All these sources, for example, were not even considered in the latest discussion. I'm not advocating that the infobox should indicate "centre-left", but this information should be included on the page. And we can't ignore the fact that all other major language versions of Wikipedia explicitly describe the FDP as a "centre to centre-right" party (including the German version), because there are authoritative sources describing this party as centrist.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 22:24, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

well then we should Change the Position to centre to centre right

Aß an German i was also confussed when i saw that the FDP was only centre right and Not centre to centre right ~2026-33329-18 (talk) 15:21, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

@GlowstoneUnknown, GuesanLoyalist, and Mülheim an der Ruhr: There's an ongoing discussion, and perhaps it was too early to change the current position, but it's clear that the previous RFC ignored authoritative sources that described the party not only as centrist, but also as a centre-left party. For this reason, the most sensible solution is to modify the previous consensus and list the FDP as a centre to centre-right party, like all other language editions of Wikipedia and similarly to parties like Ciudadanos and Renaissance.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 16:47, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

I support without a doubt "centre to centre-right", but we should add an infobox footnote that explains that some sources also describes it as "centre-left" as well GuesanLoyalist (talk) 00:21, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

A cursory search shows quite strong support for the "centre-right" label in academic literature:

[...] and the bottom poster the centre-right Free Democratic Party (FDP)

The latter aspect distinguishes them from classic supporters of established centre-right parties such as the Free Democratic Party (Freie Demokratische Partei; FDP) and the CDU/CSU.

[...] the CDU/CSU then formed a centre-right government with the centre-right Free Democratic Party (FDP).

[...] to a greater extent than centre-right parties (Christian Democratic Union of Germany [CDU]/Christian Social Union in Bavaria [CSU] and Free Democratic Party [FDP]).

Whilst sources for "centre" were harder to find, oddly I did find this self-contradictory source which uses both labels (and not in the sense of it being a range à la centre to centre-right):

coalition government [...] between two left parties [...] and the centrist-liberal Free Democratic Party (FDP), Finally, we argue that the FDP, a centre-right liberal party opposing affirmative action policies, [...] – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 02:19, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

I did find some sources that do talk about the FDP's centristness though, so there are some other terms used to describe the political position of the FDP.

1. As economic worries grow in the state, anxious voters are increasingly drawn not to the FDP’s “radical centrism,” it seems, but to other centrist parties — or the AfD’s plain radicalism.
2. It helps explain why three of Germany’s establishment parties — the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), the Social Democratic Party (SPD) and the Free Democratic Party (FDP) — all proudly lay claim to the “middle.”
3. Once dominated by the two broad “people’s parties” of CDU/CSU and SPD, the center now includes more self-confident Greens and FDP.
4. German social democracy’s first post-war high point was leading a coalition government with the centrist FDP beginning in 1969 and lasting through the early 1970s ...
5. Center parties include CDU/CSU and FDP,
6. In this representation, we position three fixed points: Die Linke, the most left-wing party, on the far left; the FDP, an economically liberal German party, at the center; and the AfD, a strongly right-oriented party, at the far right end of the semicircle.

GuesanLoyalist (talk) 05:33, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

1. Politico isn't an academic source.

2. GIOR isn't either (in fact, there is a disclaimer on that very page that the source is ai-generated).

3. The FPRI source is an opinion piece

4. That mpg.de source is over 16 years old and refers to the party as it was in the 70s.

5. The SSRN.com paper is clearly using "left", "center", and "right" as umbrella terms and not specific political positions (DNVP and NSDAP are both "right", DVP and DDP are both "center", and every party from B90/GRUENE to KPD are "left").

6. The Ideology Prediction of German Political Texts source doesn't use analysis to determine that the FDP is centrist, the authors made a predetermined assumption that the FDP was the centre of the German political spectrum and then assigned the rest of the parties a position relative to them. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 06:41, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

1. Politico is classified as a reliable source (see WP:POLITICO, although this talks about the american version, it would be safe to assume that the European division is still held by the same reliable standards)
2. https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/news/article/as-european-politics-shifts-right-centrism-isnt-what-it-used-to-be can be still used as a reliable source instead
3. Where does it say anywhere about it being an opinion piece?
4. I'm sure that this is still able to be used though
5. Could you elaborate further on what you mean?

GuesanLoyalist (talk) 07:13, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

1. Not arguing about whether Politico is reliable or not, just that it isn't an academic source,.

2. That new source only says that the FDP lay[s] claim to the "middle", at no point does it describe the party explicitly as centrist.

3. Bottom of the page: The views expressed in this article are those of the author alone and do not necessarily reflect the position of the Foreign Policy Research Institute, a non-partisan organization that seeks to publish well-argued, policy-oriented articles on American foreign policy and national security priorities.

4. It doesn't disqualify it from inclusion in the article, but it's far from a suitable source for a present-tense assertion in wikivoice.

5. The source doesn't differentiate between "far-left', 'left-wing", and "centre-left", neither does it differentiate between "centre-left", "centrist", and "centre-right", nor "right-wing" and "far-right". Parties described as "center parties" in that source include Zentrum (a centrist-to-centre-right party), DDP (a centrist-to-centre-left party), DVP (a staunchly centre-right party that actually moved firmly to the right-wing during the rise of Fascism), and CDU/CSU, the largest mainstream conservative centre-right party in modern-day Germany. The source uses the terms "left", "right", and "center" (at least in that section) in a much broader sense than we do on Wikipedia, not as specific placements on the political spectrum. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 07:29, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

Alright, I might have to get a new set of sources instead. I hope this doesn't become some sort of heated argument in here. Here are some regular sources

• German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s future hangs in the balance after her conservative CDU/CSU bloc failed to forge a coalition with the centrist Free Democratic Party and environmentalist Greens.
• “People in the 50s and 60s lived in a different environment vis-à-vis the United States,” suggested a member of the centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP) in Germany’s Bundestag, “They were surrounded by U.S. culture.”
• German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she'd prefer a new election to leading a minority government after coalition talks between her center-right Christian Democratic Union, the centrist Free Democratic Party, and the center-left Greens fell apart, per the BBC.
• Also, the centrist Free Democratic Party, a coalition partner in Chancellor Helmut Kohl's Christian Democrat-led government in Bonn, didn't even come close to winning the 5 percent necessary to hold seats in either state legislature.
• The centrist Free Democratic Party may revive; it represents, after all, a strong and admirable tradition, “liberalism” in its original sense of social and economic freedom from an overly mighty state.
• a Red-Black-Yellow coalition – the so-called “Germany Coalition”3 – containing the CDU/CSU, the SPD, and the centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP);
• Currently, both far-left parties (BSW and Die Linke) are close to the threshold, as is the centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP) that was part of the recent ruling coalition (with the SPD and Greens).
• Thomas Kemmerich of the centrist Free Democratic Party walked away from the leading the central German state of Thuringia on Thursday.
• TweetOne of her guests, Wolfgang Kubicki, a leader of the centrist Free Democratic Party, directly addressed Kramp-Karrenbauer, who was also on the show, telling her that she had delivered “a rhetorically impressive speech” that was “full of emotion.”
• Unsurprisingly, the Bundestag stopped being messy and confusing. Between 1957 and 1983, an orderly three-party system operated in parliament, featuring the centre-right CDU/CSU, centre-left SPD and the fully centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP).

Opinion sources:

• It turns out that the CDU needs a coalition of three parties. The centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP) claims 10-11% of the vote and could either balance the Greens, or boost the coalition with the CDU/CSU and the SPD to the required majority.

and here are some academic sources

• On February 5, Thomas Kemmerich, of the centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP) was elected premier (Ministerprasident) of Thuringen, the former East German state (Land).
• The existence of just three parties (since 1961) in the federal parliament ensured that the centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP) played a pivotal role in coalition formation, placed as it was between the Christian Democratic Union/Christian Social Union (CDU/CSU) on the centre-right and the Social Democratic Party (SPD) on the centre-left.1
• [https://www.proquest.com/openview/d60440c9bf9196a89a3b807f4542158a/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y The pivot party in Germany is the centrist Free Democratic Party,

helping pull the social democrats to the center.]

Some of them are old, and I may have stil did some bad checks on the sources (please give feedback if possible), but I would still want for it to be included within the infobox as these are plenty of sources. If we don't include the "centre to centre-right" then that would be in violation of WP:UNDUE. GuesanLoyalist (talk) 09:48, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

more reliable sources are additionally able to be found here: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%28%22centrist+Free+Democratic+Party%22+OR+%22Free+Democratic+Party+of+the+centre%22+OR+%22Free+Democratic+Party+of+the+center%22%29&btnG= GuesanLoyalist (talk) 09:51, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

TRT World isn't considered a reliable source per WP:RSP.

The Axios source is over 9 years old, (reminder, WP:AGEMATTERS).

That Christian Science Monitor article is over 30 years old.

The National Interest article is a 10-year-old opinion piece.

The GCSP source, whilst analytical in nature, only weakly mentions "centrist" in a single sentence, is not written by experts in political science or party ideology, and doesn't have any citation or methodological justification for the label.

The moneyandbanking.com source is an opinion piece.

The JTA source is self-contradictory, using both the quote you cited as well as "Kemmerich and Merkel’s parties are both center-right." (like with the other self-contradictory source I mentioned above)

The San Diego Tribune source only mentions the FDP in a passing comment, not disqualifying the source, but it isn't particularly strong, especially compared to the academic literature.

The Valdai Club source, whilst you prefaced it as an opinion piece, is also from a Russian-government align think tank and is a partisan source for topics such as this one

The Kierstead source, whilst a piece of academic literature, is notably not a peer-reviewed source, nor is it written by a subject matter expert, and only describes the FDP as centrist once, in passing.

The Grix; Hough article is over 24 years old

The Arroyo source is over 21 years old – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 12:45, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

Apart from them, the rest of the sources seem reasonably competent. struck through, since I've found some more issues and now my original comment may inadvertently sound disingenuous – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 12:45, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

For the old sources, I think that isn't a problem as the most latest (9 years of TRT) along with older sources have established a pattern about a centrist FDP.

For the part about TRT not being a reliable sources, that's only the case if the turkish government's intrests can get conflicted (i.e, negatively speaking about Kurdish militants in Iraq and Syria) per WP:RS/PS. See the following quote:

Consensus exists that TRT World is reliable for statements regarding the official views of the Turkish government but not reliable for subjects with which the Turkish government could be construed to have a conflict of interest. For other miscellaneous cases, it shall be assumed to be reliable enough.

So I don't see on why the Turkish government would try to put in their own bias about the political positions of a nearby country. Seems like they wouldn't care much to try to influence people over it. GuesanLoyalist (talk) 11:59, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

The point of WP:AGEMATTERS is that when older sources differ from newer sources, the newer ones should be used instead, as it demonstrates that the older sources have been superceded. And as for TRT World, the Erdogan government certainly has a conflict of interest when it comes to German politics, as their governments are about as hostile to each other as technically "allied" nations can be. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 12:08, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

I don't seem to find anything about a "new sources are preferred to old ones", closest that I got was this:

Be sure to check that older sources have not been superseded, especially if it is likely that new discoveries or developments have occurred in the last few years. In particular, newer sources are generally preferred in medicine.

Still, you didn't adress the commmon pattern that all of these sources ranging through a lot of years all saying about a centrist FDP.

For the part about TRT, I think that you are still stretching it (not meaning to not assume WP:GOODFAITH of you, just wanting to comment on something that I think would be helpful for you to work on and think about it.) GuesanLoyalist (talk) 05:38, 16 June 2026 (UTC)

My point is that it doesn't matter if old sources support the label, this discussion is about how to describe the party in the present tense. The sources that are important to the discussion are the more recent, reliable, and particularly the academic sources written by subject matter experts. There is consensus that TRTWorld is unreliable for any subject that the Turkish government could be construed to have a conflict of interest with, and the politics of a politically-hostile country is something that can generally be construed as such. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 11:59, 16 June 2026 (UTC)

@GlowstoneUnknown: Aside from the fact that older sources don't necessarily conflict with newer ones, I completely disagree that the GCSP source shouldn't be used. It seems perfectly adequate to me. Moreover, given that WP:AGEMATTERS, all the sources cited on the page are older than ten years, one even dating back to 1989! The Encyclopedia Britannica remains an encyclopedia, therefore a reliable source. Finally, you yourself stated that one source I cited (the Zur source) is perfectly adequate, so I don't see the problem in labeling this party as centrist.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 21:26, 16 June 2026 (UTC)

Additionally, there are some recent reliable sources that refer to the FDP as centrist as well that should satisify GlowstoneUnknown.

• The Christian Democratic Union (CDU), the centre-Right party of Friedrich Merz, the German chancellor, trails on 25pc. That is much lower than its 2021 result, which put the CDU in charge of a coalition with the Left-wing Social Democratic Party (SDP) and the centrist FDP.
• The far-left Linke, which has won more seats in the new parliament, supports reforming the borrowing rules but opposes increased defence spending. The centrist FDP, which will lose its seats in the new parliament, supports defence spending but opposes loosening the debt rules.
• Fittingly, the centrist FDP exhibits only very gradual changes, and these blend elements of the two parties which once vied for its favor.
• [...] centrist fdp rather than the AfD that revived.
• The rejection of establishment parties by younger voters in Germany has not yet had any major impact on German politics, with the complete failure of the centrist liberal FDP to get above the 5% threshold being the only significant fallout from the increasing polarisation for now.
• Given the recent fragmentation of German politics this was no longer possible after the 2021 elections, so a “traffic light” coalition (red for centre left, yellow for centrist FDP and the Greens) was attempted.

GuesanLoyalist (talk) 00:29, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

Additional sources:

• The far-right Alternative for Germany (AFD) lost 11 seats after it entered the Bundestag for the first time last election, while “Die Linke” (The Left), the farthest left party, lost 30 seats and the free market centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP) gained 11 seats.
• The centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP) and the Ukraine-skeptic left-wing Sahra Wagenknecht Alliance (BSW) failed to cross the 5% threshold needed to win parliamentary representation.
• In government formation following the 2019 election for the Landtag (state assembly), the state CDU cooperated in February 2020 with the far-right Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) in electing Thomas Kemmerich of the small centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP) as Minister-President.
• The Christian Democratic Union and its Bavarian sister party Christian Social Union (CDU/CSU) and the centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP) want to maintain the debt brake, while Scholz's Social Democratic Party (SPD) and the Greens would like to see the constitutional limit on borrowing amended.
• Germany’s centrist Free Democratic Party just included a provision for integrating Bitcoin and blockchain-based assets into the nation’s financial system as part of its latest manifesto.
• It is likely at this point that the SPD will form a coalition with the Greens and the centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP), placing the CDU in opposition. This marks a major shift toward left-leaning politics in one of the world’s most powerful democracies.
• The delegation includes Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann, of the centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP) who serves as chair of the Bundestag (German parliament) defense committee.
• Similarly, Serkan Tören, a Turkish-born representative of the centrist Free Democratic Party, which governs Germany in a coalition with the larger Christian Democratic Party, warned that “a ban on circumcision would be the clearest signal to the Muslims in our country that they are not part of Germany, that they are not even welcome.”
• A more recent example of this dynamic was seen during the 2020 Thuringian government crisis, where Thomas Kemmerich of the liberal-centrist Free Democratic Party (FDP), came to power as minister president by courting the support of both the liberal-conservative Christian Democratic Union of Germany (CDU) and, startlingly, the far-right populist party Alternative for Germany (AFD) and its representative Björn Höcke (the leader of its extreme ‘Flügel’ faction, legally designated fascist)

GuesanLoyalist (talk) 01:02, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

You're correct that older sources don't necessarily contradict newer ones, but my point is that when they DO, newer sources should be used instead. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 02:54, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

But you haven't answered my comments: why does WP:AGEMATTERS only apply to the centrist position and not the centre-right position? Without a valid response, the infobox will be modified for clear violation of WP:UNDUE, and the sources supporting the centre-left position will be added to the body of the page.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 05:56, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

But you haven't answered my comments: why does WP:AGEMATTERS only apply to the centrist position and not the centre-right position?

Because of the recent reliable academic sources I provided in this very discussion. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 06:31, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

If we get enough reliable sources, then we might even have a chance of adding some sort of infobox footnote since that might be something that the viewer would probably want to take note of as well. GuesanLoyalist (talk) 11:16, 17 June 2026 (UTC)

@GlowstoneUnknown: You only searched for sources that support the FDP's positioning in the centre-right, but in academic literature there is also strong support for the FDP's centrist position:

1. In recent years centrist-liberal parties, such as the German Free Democratic Party (FDP) in 2013 and the British Liberal Democrats in 2015 and 2017, suffered enormous electoral defeats.
2. The centrist position of the FDP benefited it in two ways.
3. The centrist position of the FDP benefited it in two ways.
4. The grand coalition of CDU/CSU-SPD and the FDP’s centrist repositioning had opened up itself as a viable alternative to the established parties
5. The Greens’ and fdp's centrist positioning enhanced their coalitional relevance
6. the Free Democratic Party (FDP, liberal centrist party)

Not to mention that the most authoritative source of all, the Encyclopedia Britannica, describes it as a centrist party ([]), and that (among others) even the German version of Wikipedia describes it as a centre-to-centre-right party. So I agree with the user GuesanLoyalist, ignoring these sources is an evident violation of WP:UNDUE.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 11:56, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

I did in fact search for sources supporting both claims, but came up short on Google Scholar. Notably, per WP:BRITANNICA, it's far from the most authoritative source of all, and reliable secondary sources are preferred.

The Zur source is perfectly adequate.

The Kaarbo; Lantis source is over 22 years old and listed twice. (WP:AGEMATTERS)

The Patton source in the Journal of Contemporary Central and Eastern Europe explicitly only refers to the FDP's centrist repositioning in a historical sense (i.e. between 1966 and 1969), and later on in the source says [...] according to pre-election polls in 2013 its favourability rating had stood atminus 1.4 (the same value as the Left Party and just a half a point below that of the centre-right FDP)

Patton's Small Parties in the 2021 Bundestag Election is a bit tentative, it refers to "centrist positioning" in the context of their 2021 election strategy, and the party's tactics and strategy to spur coalition negotiations between themselves and the other parties.

The Europe Today: A Twenty-First Century Introduction book refers to the FDP between 1949 and 1983, not in the present tense. – GlowstoneUnknown (Talk) 13:14, 14 June 2026 (UTC)