Talk:First English Public Jam Session
Latest comment: 7 months ago by Dclemens1971 in topic Did you know nomination
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 | A fact from First English Public Jam Session appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 24 October 2025 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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Did you know nomination
edit- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. You can locate your hook here. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Dclemens1971 talk 13:53, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
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- ... that the First English Public Jam Session, held in 1941, was organised in part by Melody Maker?
- Reviewed:
Created by TangoTizerWolfstone (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.
TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 01:48, 31 August 2025 (UTC).
The article was created within the seven-day limit and meets the length requirements. I did not find any close paraphrasing. No QPQ necessary as this is only the nominator's second nomination. However, the hook as currently written may not meet our interest guidelines, as it may not be clear to a reader unfamiliar with Melody Maker why their involvement is important. Given that the article is quite long and detailed, I would suggest making further hook proposals. I am also pinging Launchballer for hook suggestions as this is a music-related article. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:45, 17 September 2025 (UTC)
- @TangoTizerWolfstone: Please note that if you are unable to propose a new hook, this nomination may be marked for closure. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:42, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Hi, sorry, been an exceptionally busy week and lost track of things. How about something like "the First English Public Jam Session, held in 1941, took place in London before an audience of 1,000 spectators?" This explains the 'public' part of the session name. Or maybe "1,000 jazz fans and musicians" to narrow the scope of the audience down?--TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 09:58, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
- @TangoTizerWolfstone: I don't think that works either. Audiences of a thousand for public concerts is quite common and not atypical, so it's not really interesting or unusual. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:01, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: The unusual aspect for the time was it being taped and released on record, apparently unheard of at that point in British jam-based jazz, but that might be hard to get across in the hook. One aspect I think could work for the hook is saxophonist Aubrey Frank playing the session only a day before being conscripted into the Royal Air Force, although I don't know if the absence of an article for himself complicates matters? If not, maybe it could be "The saxophonist Aubrey Frank played at the 1941 First English Public Jam Session a day before conscription into the Royal Air Force?" Or do these sound like other potential hooks?: "the First English Public Jam Session, held in 1941..." "...was promoted as "the greatest British jam session ever"?", "...was intended to showcase British jazz musicians in the best light?", "...was attended and praised by the poet Philip Larkin?", "...established a model for racial integration in British jazz?" (the latter I feel good about as a hook, but if you agree, it might need work to be more specific - IMO it's a bit hard to paraphrase the Stratton source for this without losing the accuracy of his text so help would be appreciated).--TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 10:53, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
- The one about Frank might work if an article could be created for him: this could then be a double hook. Usually, we discourage subjects without articles from being mentioned in hooks, although it's not an absolute rule and it's not prohibited. The issue with the angle is more that it would be more about Frank rather than the Jam Session, so it wouldn't meet WP:DYKMAJOR. As for your other proposals, perhaps the one that would meet DYKINT the best would be "greatest British jam session ever", but we will have to see. I'll get back to this and give some thought regarding options. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:11, 25 September 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: The unusual aspect for the time was it being taped and released on record, apparently unheard of at that point in British jam-based jazz, but that might be hard to get across in the hook. One aspect I think could work for the hook is saxophonist Aubrey Frank playing the session only a day before being conscripted into the Royal Air Force, although I don't know if the absence of an article for himself complicates matters? If not, maybe it could be "The saxophonist Aubrey Frank played at the 1941 First English Public Jam Session a day before conscription into the Royal Air Force?" Or do these sound like other potential hooks?: "the First English Public Jam Session, held in 1941..." "...was promoted as "the greatest British jam session ever"?", "...was intended to showcase British jazz musicians in the best light?", "...was attended and praised by the poet Philip Larkin?", "...established a model for racial integration in British jazz?" (the latter I feel good about as a hook, but if you agree, it might need work to be more specific - IMO it's a bit hard to paraphrase the Stratton source for this without losing the accuracy of his text so help would be appreciated).--TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 10:53, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
- @TangoTizerWolfstone: I don't think that works either. Audiences of a thousand for public concerts is quite common and not atypical, so it's not really interesting or unusual. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:01, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
- @TangoTizerWolfstone: Please note that if you are unable to propose a new hook, this nomination may be marked for closure. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:42, 23 September 2025 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5: I'll have a look for hook ideas myself when it isn't half three my time, but have you thought about this yourself?--Launchballer 02:30, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
- I had taken a look at the article and saw some things like the "greatest British jam session" quote earlier, but I wasn't sure how to word it as a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:07, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
- I suggest one of the following:
- ALT1: ... that a 1941 jam session was notable for its racial integration?
- ALT2: ... that an event once dubbed the first dance music jam session ever recorded took place in 1941?
- ALT3: ... that the First English Public Jam Session had nothing to do with fruit?--Launchballer 14:52, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
- ALT3 is a cute hook, but sadly it is not directly stated in the article, only implied. ALT2 is technically a "first" hook, although it might be acceptable since the hook fact is it being dubbed the first, not that it is actually claimed to be the first. ALT1 is supported by the article but it does not directly say it was "notable for its racial integration" (or at least that exact wording is not used outside the article); however, as a summary of the article, it seems to be the safest option among the three. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:53, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: What else needs doing here?--Launchballer 20:15, 11 October 2025 (UTC)
- I am still waiting for the nominator's response to the above comment. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:25, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
- In which case, @TangoTizerWolfstone:, please address the above.--Launchballer 18:22, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
- I am still waiting for the nominator's response to the above comment. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:25, 12 October 2025 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: What else needs doing here?--Launchballer 20:15, 11 October 2025 (UTC)
- ALT3 is a cute hook, but sadly it is not directly stated in the article, only implied. ALT2 is technically a "first" hook, although it might be acceptable since the hook fact is it being dubbed the first, not that it is actually claimed to be the first. ALT1 is supported by the article but it does not directly say it was "notable for its racial integration" (or at least that exact wording is not used outside the article); however, as a summary of the article, it seems to be the safest option among the three. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:53, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
- Hi. I like the sound of ALT1 and ALT2 both. Do I need to state a preference? The racial significance of ALT1 is something I had problems trying to paraphrase without losing the intricacies of the details, but simply saying its notable for its racial integration seems the way to do it. The Stratton source says the lack of racial discrimination set the standard for similar British jams. And ALT2 seems fine to me as the 'first' is a mere attribution, although it would be important to get 'public' in there, as jams had been recorded before but in private studios without an audience (it's also possible that the FEPJS wasn't the first, but this was the way it was promoted - this is why I was quite fond of the hook about it being promoted as 'the greatest British jam session ever', which is merely subjective so can't be argued against on any objective front.)--TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 02:28, 13 October 2025 (UTC)
- Personally I'm leaning more towards ALT1, not just because it's a shorter hook but also because there are some editors on DYK who are wary of "first" hooks. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:28, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
In the interest of this moving forward, I am approving ALT1. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:28, 16 October 2025 (UTC)
- Hi. I like the sound of ALT1 and ALT2 both. Do I need to state a preference? The racial significance of ALT1 is something I had problems trying to paraphrase without losing the intricacies of the details, but simply saying its notable for its racial integration seems the way to do it. The Stratton source says the lack of racial discrimination set the standard for similar British jams. And ALT2 seems fine to me as the 'first' is a mere attribution, although it would be important to get 'public' in there, as jams had been recorded before but in private studios without an audience (it's also possible that the FEPJS wasn't the first, but this was the way it was promoted - this is why I was quite fond of the hook about it being promoted as 'the greatest British jam session ever', which is merely subjective so can't be argued against on any objective front.)--TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 02:28, 13 October 2025 (UTC)
