Talk:Die Young

Userbox

Is there any userbox that says this user is Kesha Fan or something.Please help. 25 CENTS VICTORIOUS ^☣ 14:33, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Debut in 2010

Those of us who've followed Kesha's career know that "Tik Tok" debuted in 2009. The sentence in the lead that reappears later under "Chart performance" cites Billboard as saying that her "Tik Tok" debut occurred in 2010. This needs to be addressed because it's been reverted on numerous occasions. Yes, "Tik Tok" was released in 2009, but it did not become a top ten hit until January 2, 2010, making her official debut as a top-ten hit artist for this chart 2010, not 2009. Kesha's chart history at Billboard.com verifies this: http://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100#/artist/ke-ha/chart-history/1308564 --Thevampireashlee (talk) 03:41, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

hate

nothing about that song is exposed to hatred, because people associate it with school shooting?--80.161.143.239 (talk) 14:50, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Critical Reception

I still think the reception to the song, overall, has been mixed to positive. As I noted in my edit summary, the song received positive reviews from Seventeen, Rolling Stone, Perez Hilton (who probably isn't a very good source but is cited in the article nonetheless), Contactmusic, Vibe, Pop Crush, Stereogum, Entertainment Weekly, About.com, and Pazz n Jop] and mixed reviews from: Billboard, Idolator, Spin, and possibly LA Times and MTV. However, User:thevampireashlee has twice reverted these edits to simply "mixed," claiming that these edits are "puffery" and "attempts to elevate this beyond what is already proven," whatever that means. The song received more positive reviews than anything and no outright negative reviews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SamZR (talk • contribs) 07:25, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Conspiracy theory

FYI, this song has been incorporated into some of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting conspiracy theories. Even before that it was being criticized for its "Illuminati" symbolism, but now some say they can hear "Sandy Hook" in a backmask. So far I haven't found this in an RS (and how can one have an RS of conspiracy theories?) but it could be something to look into.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 01:12, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Some of the places where these charges have been made: Pre Sandy Hook Song DIE YOUNG by Kesha Clearly Says "Sandy Hook" When Played Backwards , You Tube warning from Adam Lanza (Trolley Rulle)- 2 days BEFORE Sandy Hook (ref. Ke$ha-die young) and before Sandy Hook but anti-"Illuminati" Ke$ha tells Youth to Die Young! (illuminati) --Bellerophon5685 (talk) 01:17, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Reliable sources aren't likely to publish this sort of thing unless it's to dismiss any conspiracy allegations, such as was the instance with the article written by Billboard. Additionally, this type of information is generally regarded as pseudoscience Wikipedia standards and is almost always omitted on those grounds alone. I'm surprised the article from Billboard wasn't contested for removal, despite it's extreme notability. For now, the only "reliable" link between the song and Sandy Hooks is the drop in airplay the song received due to parents feeling offended by the lyrics. I created this article, contributed the bulk of the information here, and watch it regularly. I would recommend discussing any changes linked to conspiracy theories and pseudoscience here for adding it to the article. I would also like to remind you that this talk page exists solely for the purpose of improving the article; in other words, this is not a forum topic about the song or conspiracy theories ( no matter how much I believe they are true! :D ) --Thevampireashlee (talk) 07:52, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Certification

When I enter to the citation of the RIAA certification it doesn't apear the Die Young certification,but its obviously that have a certification and when I search. ke$ha in the page it doesn't appear, too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pablogarciadaz (talk • contribs) 03:39, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Sampling

I think the song samples this a lot of the way through. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.54.65.52 (talk) 04:46, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

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Requested move 29 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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• Die Young (Kesha song) → Die Young
• Die Young → Die Young (disambiguation)

– Kesha's song takes priority over all the other topics combined. Unreal7 (talk) 20:38, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

• Support. It does appear that Kesha's song is the primary topic with substantially more page views than other contenders put together. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 19:23, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose Die Young (Black Sabbath song) may not be as well known to younger readers, but really what is so terrible about Die Young (Kesha song) having the artist name? Will removing the artist name help Kesha fans find it? Doubt that either of these songs has the long term notability to meet second criteria. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:35, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

1. Not relevant.

2. Who said anything about "terrible"? It's the primary topic.

3. Yes.

4. Well, one already has. Unreal7 (talk) 18:16, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Calidum 18:46, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom's page view stats link and strong policy-based rebuttal to the only oppose, which is not policy-based at all. --В²C ☎ 21:16, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 24 March 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus is that this song remains the primary topic. (non-admin closure) {{GearsDatapacks|talk|contribs}} 12:09, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

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• Die Young → Die Young (Kesha song)Die Young (Kesha song)
• Die Young (disambiguation) → Die Young

– I think it's time to reverse the previous decision since there are three other songs and an album of the same name with articles. I feel like the phrase listed, "suffer an early death", is technically more appropriate for a topic to be linked to on a page like this. I'm not sure how to best explain it, but my main point is that that phrase would be my first go to over this specific song. JE98 (talk) 02:10, 24 March 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPath^talk 09:11, 31 March 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 03:38, 9 April 2026 (UTC)

Yes, I think you mean that just because one particular piece of entertainment happens to match exactly and sees a lot of usage, that doesn't necessarily mean that its long-term significance overrides that of all the other articles like that and the dictionary-like common definitions combined (WP:PTOPIC).

The all-time mass views show it is the single most popular such article, and the difference seems substantial. Monthly page views comparison seems to confirm the same impression, though it's not a fair comparison - search engines do not typically feed page views into redirects, which some of these are. Not sure why the traffic here explodes in 2019 - the article mentions a fan animation made then? This may speak to significance of this song if there's notable derived works.

Then there's also the substantial see also section. It could be argued that this phrase is fairly generic and has been used with variations that are not particularly distinguishable by the average reader. There is a 2010 song with an article, and if we just add that one to the same monthly views graph, then the picture suddenly changes and the 2012 song no longer seems nearly as important.

I went to look up the lyrics to the 2012 song at Genius, typed in the term exactly in their search box, and got three options to choose from - and this one was the 3rd. I typed in the phrase (quoted) into Google Books, and there was no mention of songs in the first two pages, because the various literary references were plentiful.

Because of the fan animation mentioned above, I also checked YouTube, and got Kesha, Black Sabbath, but then also Chappell Roan, Tsunami J., Lil Texas, Roddy Rich. Then it showed me Steel Dragon "We All Die Young" and the aforementioned "If I Die Young" by The Band Perry.

It's fundamentally an issue of how generic do we think this particular phrase is. --Joy (talk) 08:45, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

The reason the song appears to explode in pageviews in 2019 is that the page was moved to this title from Die Young (Kesha song) in 2019. There's something wrong with the include redirect option in wmcloud right now, but you can see the correct pageviews if you add the old title in directly. Ladtrack (talk) 15:13, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, I didn't remember to check the history for moves. It's also good to see from another example how the vast majority of reader traffic finds the article regardless of the title (most likely because it's guided by search engines). JFTR the second graph in that case is like this. --Joy (talk) 07:52, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose per consensus at the 2019 RM; WP:PT1. Wikipedia is not a dictionary. 162 etc. (talk) 17:49, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose: Clearly this song is the primary topic for "Die Young". See also the pageview analysis for each song and the album listed on the DAB page. --Prothe1st (leave me a message)-- 18:16, 24 March 2026 (UTC)
• Support: This makes sense to me, surely the phrase takes priority over the song. The song is relatively well known but not to the extent about the actual act of dying young. Jasp7676 (talk) 10:22, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  There isn't even an article for the act of dying young. Wikipedia is also not a dictionary. See WP:NOTDICT. --Prothe1st (leave me a message)-- 16:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC)

  I don't disagree with WP:NOTDICT, but when you have two other songs and album of the same name as what easily sounds like a generic phrase, it doesn't feel right to me to keep Kesha as the primary topic anymore. JE98 (talk) 02:58, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

  Page traffic is substantially higher for the Kesha song than any of the other songs or the album listed in the DAB page. Do a quick google search and you'll see what the top search results are. Nothing much has changed since the 2019 RM. --Prothe1st (leave me a message)-- 10:33, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

  @Prothe1st per WP:DPT, simple web searches are not determinative. Likewise, the nature of Google Search does not map entirely well to our concept of primary topics, because they list secondary meanings below and the reader often only has to scroll, whereas in our case they have to click. They also offer something similar to our disambiguation with the box of other searches and list of next pages near the bottom of the first page, but we don't have those mechanisms. --Joy (talk) 12:35, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

• Support. For the Kesha song to be the primary topic it would need to be more likely than all the other meanings at Die Young (disambiguation) taken together to be the article a reader was seeking (or a writer was intending when they linked to it). With six songs (and several other possible meanings) listed at the DAB, this is unlikely, and the evidence presented above doesn't support it. Andrewa (talk) 03:06, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

  I'll note that Kesha's song went Top-10 in multiple countries while none of the other songs at the dabpage did, indicating higher long-term notability. Pageviews also favour Kesha, with 80%+ of the traffic heading to Die Young. This article indeed meets both WP:PT1 and WP:PT2. 162 etc. (talk) 17:29, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

  This would be a valid argument but for the words I bolded above, taken together. The higher long-term notability of one other taken in isolation is not the issue here. Taking that distinction into account, both WP:PT1 and WP:PT2 are doubtful. Andrewa (talk) 09:39, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject American music, WikiProject Songs, WikiProject Electronic music, and WikiProject Pop music have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPath^talk 09:13, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose. As Andrewa says above, to be a primary topic, one topic should be a more likely target than all the other meanings taken together. However, we don't need to rely on guesswork to determine whether that's the case; we can look at the pageviews and get an (imperfect, but) reasonable idea of what readers are interested in. Linked here is a chart of monthly pageviews for all exact title matches with their own articles, dating back to when this article was moved to its current title in November 2019. The combined group receives 5,232 monthly average pageviews; of those pageviews, the Kesha song has received 3,920 of them. Put another way, the Kesha song receives 74.9% of all pageviews for topics titled "Die Young". This is a strong case for a primary topic under WP:PT1, and I haven't seen anything to suggest that any other topic holds enough long-term significance to overwrite that. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 13:36, 31 March 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose per ModernDayTrilobite's reasoning. We have a primary topic. WidgetKid ^Converse 05:07, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose Per WP:NOTDICTIONARY. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:11, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose. I agree with ModernDayTrilobite. If anything, the case is stronger than it was in 2019. This pageviews from November 2018 (one year before the last move) through March 2026 shows that this song's popularity has only grown. You can see where the lines for Die Young (Kesha song) and Die Young cross after November 2019. The spikes in popularity in 2021, 2024, and 2025 also speak to the song's long-term significance. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 16:36, 9 April 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.