Talk:Debar

Dibra or Debar or Dibri or Deborus...

One of two things should be done to end confusion concerning linking to this page. Either this page should be renamed Debar and a redirect should be added for Dibra to this page or a redirect should be added for Debar to the current name of the page. While I lack the technical knowledge to do either (I dont really understand how to add redirects), I would suggest the former because Dibra or Dibri did not come into use until Turkish occupation of the city in 1449 and since then Debar has become the official name again. In addition a section explaining the difference between Upper and Lower Debar - created during Turkish rule - should be explained as to why the Turks split the city and its effect on the city today.freestylefrappe 17:38, Jan 9, 2005 (UTC)

I recently found, on http://www.omda.bg/imir/studies/alban_id9.html, that the name Dibra is not only the Ottoman name for the city, but also the Albanian name (according to Antonina Zhelyazkov). freestylefrappe 22:32, Jan 18, 2005 (UTC)

We'll have to figure out something about the current name of this article. To most Albanians (from Albania at least) Dibra is the region in Albania, while the one in Macedonia is called "Dibra e Madhe" (meaning the Big or Great Dibra). See Counties of Albania for the region in Albania (also called Dibra e Vogël meaning Small Dibra). You can also try a couple of google searches to see what I mean (although they will likely be in Albanian) Dori | Talk 04:25, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

I realize that Dibra is the Albanian name for the town of Debar, but it's official and commonly used name is Debar. The main article should be named after the official name of the town, just as the town of Kukush (slavic name) can be found only with the Greek toponym Kilkis. Furthermore, as Dori has stated the term Dibra is used to describe a wider geographical region, not only the town in RoM. I'm moving this article to "Debar", (if albanian users type Dibra, they should be redirected to this article) and I'm also adding a little info of the two names of this town. Best regards. --FlavrSavr 02:46, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

This is confusing: "Almost all of the estimated 50,000 people living in Debar are Macedonians, Albanians and Turks." - user

Mafia violence

This is the first time I encounter this information. This happened july 17, 1999? --FlavrSavr 02:59, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Is anybody against deleting that section? It sounds like a tabloid headline, plus is just plain ugly. People want to read about general information not some mafia feuds. --Cigor 20:53, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, the ugliness is not a rationale to delete it. It's relevant current events. freestylefrappe 02:09, September 13, 2005 (UTC)

Rewording

Can anybody explain what does the second part of this sentence mean? What was accepted? "Dibra was also significantly involved in the national Albanian movement and on November 1, 1878 the Albanian League of Prizren was accepted."--Cigor 03:22, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

The population

I reacted to this : "Albanians are 88.2%, Macedonians 4.8%, Turks 3%, Gypsies 2.3% and all others outstanding (most are Albanian) evidence in Albanian language. " -that is, the source are given to be sq.wikipedia. Thats not a source. However, the data it replaced had no source either. So, what is the right data?Greswik 16:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Medieval period

The Late Medieval Balkans: A Critical Survey from the Late Twelfth Century ... By John Van Antwerp Fine says that after Battle of Maritza, Brankovići and Balšići "siezed part of Marko's familys holdings" and that Marko was "pushed out from both eastern and Western Macedonia". Marko's principality was reduced to "around Prilep".

The text of the article suggests that Vukašin Mrnjavčević (or his successor Marko) controlled Debar till 1395. But according to Fine, it is not true. Does anybody know who controlled Debar in period 1371-1395?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 19:40, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Coat of arms of Debar Municipality.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:07, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage.) Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: "Macedonia" by Thammy Evans and Rudolf Abraham. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

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Alternative names

Kogjaimeqem, the WP:BURDEN is on you to demonstrate that those names have significant coverage in the English-language literature, not me. This is the case with new disputed edits. I would like to point out that Dibër also refers to a municipality in Albania. WP:NCGN recommends at least 10 percentage coverage in the English-language literature. StephenMacky1 (talk) 14:12, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

Hallo StephenMacky1! You refered to WP:NCGN correctly about the part of the 10% coverage in the English literature, but apparently you missed a part that follows shortly after: "...or that is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place...". This alone justifies my edit, but to satisfy your curiosity, I'll go ahead and run a couple of searches on Google Scholar.

The results from Google Scholar searches show us that:

Dibër - About 594 results

Dibra - About 1,750 results

Debar - About 3,750 results

It seems to me that around 38,46% of the results from the English literature use the Albanian name of the city.

If 38.46% > 10%, please revert your revert. Kogjaimeqem (talk) 15:10, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

You did not include "Dibra e Madhe" in your search and you also did not add "Dibra" in your disputed edit, but we can consider that one as well. I think it would be easier to list all English-language sources that use the names and make sure that they all actually refer to the city, not a region or a district. It is not accurate that all results refer to the city in North Macedonia, since some still refer to the area in Albania, despite you adding "Macedonia" in your search too, while Google Scholar also shows the results of non-English language sources. StephenMacky1 (talk) 15:29, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

As I mentioned, you are just considering what seems to support your view (in which I also just proved that the coverage is far from 10% by nearly 30%) but ignoring the other part of the sentence (which firmly supports my edit)!

I, honestly, don’t understand why this needs to turn into a debate - everything is quite clear.

So please go ahead and revert your revert, to avoid turning it into an edit-war.

Have a nice evening :) Kogjaimeqem (talk) 15:44, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

Kogjaimeqem, excuse me for missing that part. The second part of the guideline applies "used to" in the past tense. Albanians still live in Debar. I can ask for clarification from other editors, but it could be referring to historical names. The research on Google Scholar is still flawed though, because it also lists results of the area in Albania, non-English language sources and even sources which do not even mention the city. I will self-revert if there is a valid rationale to do so, but so far, I am not convinced. StephenMacky1 (talk) 18:19, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

Since you have refused to reverse the unnecessary revert of my edit after all the proof I provided, I went ahead and re-added the Albanian name. If you still disagree, please provide new sources (proof) that contradict this or show that the Albanian name appears in less than 10% of the English-language coverage. Until then, I’ll stand by my edit. Kogjaimeqem (talk) 18:36, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

You’ve already reverted the edit (third time!), and your actions already escalated this small, good-faith edit of mine into a personal conflict (on your side) and an edit war. It’s clear you’re bothered by the inclusion of the Albanian name for an Albanian-majority city, but that’s totally irrelevant to the article. Have a nice calm evening :) Kogjaimeqem (talk) 19:11, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

You should not restore anything while there is an ongoing discussion and you lack consensus for your edit. I only have made two reverts on this day. Why are you ignoring everything that I am writing? Not only is the research on Google Scholar flawed, but it does not tell the full story either. JSTOR and Google Books also list sources, but you also need to filter the sources to verify that they are actually about the subject.

By the logic of this research, "Dibra" appears to be more common, yet you have only added "Dibër" to the lead. This is why it is important to do proper research instead of jumping the gun. I do not have anything personal against you or against the names. I am just making sure that they comply with the policies and guidelines, especially for the lead section. StephenMacky1 (talk) 19:22, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

@User:Kogjaimeqem If you continue to take this confrontational approach to other contributors, you will never get what you want. Edit warring can get you blocked. Deb (talk) 09:31, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

I can't figure out why StephenMacky1 is even humoring you. Do you see "Kosova" in the lead as an "alternative name" at Kosovo? Enough with the disruptive editing. --Local hero ^talk 03:08, 7 July 2025 (UTC)