Talk:Daewoo Precision Industries K1

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This gun is a submachine gun

Every characteristic of this gun except the caliber is submachine gun. There are submachine guns with rifle caliber. This will be classified as submachine gun. Manufacturer classified as submachine gun. Developers classified as submachine gun. The military uses and operate the gun as submachine gun. Kadrun (talk) 16:59, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Should this be reflected in the first line and type section on the table? It currently states it's an assault rifle and carbine. Alexha.dct (talk) 00:32, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

No. CAR-15 was 5.56 mm submachine gun. There are plenty other examples. Kadrun (talk) 20:30, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

What defines a submachine gun is the cartridge. A submachine gun that fires assault rifle rounds cannot be a submachine gun - it's a carbine (because a submachine gun is defined by being an automatic gun that fires pistol rounds - if it fires intermediate rounds, it is an assault rifle, if full power, then a battle rifle). The K1 is more comparable to the CAR-15 carbine or the AK-74U, both of which are assault carbines that are also used in the same role as a submachine gun, but those are not considered such. You can use a sword in the same role as a spear, but that will not make a sword a spear. Edward hahm (talk) 08:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

CAR-15 (XM177 series) was classified as 5.56 mm SMG. This is official for both Colt and the U.S. military. Kadrun (talk) 20:30, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Once again, there are examples of submachine guns using assault rifle caliber ammunition. South Korea needed new submachine gun and decided to use 5.56 mm because 9 mm was not enough for military usage. K1 has all submachine gun characteristic such as iron sights and its usage role in the military is submachine gun. late 1970s, Vietnam War ended only few years ago, and militaries were not familar with "carbines". US made CAR-15 (XM177) and gave to special forces and classified as submachine gun. And M4 debut early 90s, and people starting to call it "carbine". Editors should consider these background.Kadrun (talk) 08:25, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

This gun is a carbine as a primary class, but can be used as a SMG

The K1 lacked the carbine class, so whoever removes the carbine class is wrong here. Just like any ARs, the K1 is 1 of them due to chamber of 5.56 NATO ammo, therefore the Carbine class should be retained 39.109.171.18 (talk) 02:38, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

explain why CAR-15 was classified as submachine gun Kadrun (talk) 18:07, 26 September 2025 (UTC)

The standard definition of a Carbine requires "has a barrel shortened from its original length." Due to the K1 itself being the full length variant (K2 is a different rifle with a separate development and design), it can not be classified as a carbine. Alexha.dct (talk) 20:50, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

That is not the "standard" definition, there is no such universal concept. That definition comes from 1911, well before the development of modern automatic carbines and submachineguns as a categorical class. Modern definitions have no such requirement, see e.g. M-W, Cambridge dictionary, Dictionary.com, Collins, etc. all of which define a carbine as a short, light rifle. Our policies state that we go by what reliable sources say, such as Guns.com or Ian McCollum from Forgotten Weapons who explains why it's a carbine quite well: "(The first result was the K1, a 5.56mm carbine (designated a submachine gun) to replace the Grease Gun.The K1 used the AR15 gas system and AR15 fire control system, but couples with a right-side charging handle and a bolt carrier and recoil spring setup similar to the AR18, negating the need for a recoil spring in the stock and allowing the use of a wire collapsing stock. In its military form, it had a 10.4 inch barrel, and had both semiauto and full auto fire settings. The K1 remains in South Korean service today in the K1C form, updated to allow mounting of optics and other accessories. In the 1980s and early 90s, the K1 was imported into the United States under several different names, including the K1A1, MAX-1, and (in the case of the rifle in today’s video) AR-110C. All had barrels lengthened to 16 inches to avoid the NFA, and were semiautomatic only. It's quite clearly by functionality and design a carbine-length short-barreled rifle; the fact that it was *designated* a submachinegun for administrative purposes (so as to replace the M3, an existing SMG) does not change what it actually *is* -- a carbine. Hence why it had to be lengthened to 16 inches (still carbine-length) to avoid the short-barreled rifle provisions of the NFA.⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 22:50, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

I apologize, I was going off the Wikipedia page and a cursory definition search. I believe the carbine page first paragraph might require a clarification edit.

I have made a new edit that only retains the information addition about the discrepancy in how the ROKMND/A classifies the gun without altering how it is listed as if that is alright.

This is unrelated and minor, but something I would like to note for future onlookers is that the "K1C" variant mentioned on the blog post is not a real variant, and at the time of the blog post in 2018, the K1A was the most updated form. I believe it may be referring to the limited issue of Dongin Rails between the Zaytun unit and other ROKSWC units, as these modified rifles were incorrected referred to as "K1C" by some Korean media outlets and users. The newest variant K1AC1 (Announced as K1C1 in 2021), started issue in 2025. Here is an image of the document describing the installation of the K2C1 type fixed stock adapter if anyone is interested. Alexha.dct (talk) 00:00, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

You're correct, the carbine page's first paragraph needs to be updated, but that can be dealt with separately. Your new edit is generally speaking fine, but using a blog as a source isn't, so we'd need a different source; additionally we don't need to make a comparison to the CAR-15 in this article nor should we unless we've got reliable sources also making the same comparison. I'll leave the initial part of your edit as is, but take out the second portion and update the link to a more usable source.⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 01:26, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

I have removed the comparison and added new sources from the Korean War Memorial in Seoul and KFN (Korean Forces Network). I have kept the Naver Blog as the blog is a verified outlet run by Republic of Korea Army HQ, please let me know if this is an issue. Alexha.dct (talk) 01:39, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

Unfortunately your edit got caught up with mine in an edit conflict. In reviewing the conflict, I noticed that most of the sources you provided were youtube videos, which we generally need to avoid using as a source (see WP:RSPYT). Additionally, it's not immediately obvious that the Naver blog is run by the Korean government; the large anime cartoon figure prominently located on the page doesn't really lend it much credibility. It's really not necessary to include, we've already got sufficient sourcing for the important fact, which is that while it's technically and functionally a rifle, it's designated as a SMG. Better to just avoid it and we can stick to higher quality sources. Additionally when there are sufficient English language sources available, we prefer to use those over foreign-language sources on English Wikipedia (WP:NONENG).⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 01:43, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, it's an unfortunate fact about how the ROKAHQ and MND conducts itself. A lot of these public facing outlets in Korea are dressed up like it's still the 2010 internet. Is it still alright to add information about the K1AC1 in the variant section if it utilizes sources such as kyeonggi ilbo (kyeonggi newspaper)? Alexha.dct (talk) 01:49, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

Should be -- there's no reliability or categorical problems with major Korean newspapers. Feel free to drop an example here first if you want. ⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 02:24, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

Got it, I added some sources from the "Defense Media Agency" directly from the news site versus the youtube channel. I would like to thank you for helping me learn about proper editing and source citation for Wikipedia, you've taught me that I will keep in mind for future edits. Alexha.dct (talk) 02:28, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

No problem. One little bit of nuance just to clarify -- the general issue with Youtube is that because it's a user-submitted content site, basically because we can only technically cite the author as being an username, we can't necessarily verify it or assess the reliability of the source. There's an exception to that general rule though, for things like officially verified accounts of media or government sources. Those we can *sometimes* use (because we don't have that same concern of verifiability/reliability since the account in question is verified to what would be an otherwise reliable source), but we should always do so with caution because -- particularly with government sources -- they may still be a primary source for a claim, or they may be making an extraordinary claim or a claim about a third-party. So in general, if there's the same information available from the same "author" on a Youtube video and also on a text version, it's usually a safer idea to stick to the text source. I mention this because it's entirely possible some of the Youtube videos that were in that edit conflict are OK, and I didn't want to leave you thinking that all Youtube videos are always categorically not allowed; it's often easier to just bypass the issue altogether with non-Youtube sources. In any event, feel free to ping me on my talk page any time if you have any specific questions. ⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 02:44, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

Also, bring a single official source that claims K1 as carbine. You can't because both the military and manufacturer list it as submachine gun. It is officially submachine gun. Your claim of it being carbine is just your personal opinion.

• Daewoo K1A = 5.56 mm submachine gun
• CAR-15 = 5.56 mm submachine gun (Submachine Gun, 5.56-mm, CAR-15)
• AKS-74U = 5.45 mm submachine gun

Kadrun (talk) 21:48, 26 September 2025 (UTC)

See above. All three examples you've provided above are carbines, and are listed as such on Wikipedia. ⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 22:50, 20 November 2025 (UTC)