Talk:Association of British Counties

Scotland

Isn't the latest addition: The association also seems uncertain about how traditional to be. The map shown on its homepage and a larger scale version accept the 1889 reform of local government in Scotland. The separated parts of various counties are not shown. Thus, Ross and Cromarty are shown as one unit. Likewise Morayshire is not cut in two by a large exclave of the County of Inverness. Of the many mainland counties having detached parts, only Dunbartonshire is shown as having two separate areas, a situation left unchanged by the 1889 local government reform. a little POV? Doesn't the map on the ABC web site also show large detached parts of Worcestershire and Flintshire? Owain 13:03, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by Isn't the latest addition:

The ABC insists that the 19th century reforms did not effect traditional boundaries, and they do not claim that Scotland should be treated differently

and it seemes a little pointless noting that Worcestershire and Flintshire were not affected by the reform of Scottish local government. garryq 12 Aug

What I wrote was "Isn't the lastest addition [to this page] a little POV?". I thought when you were referring to "mainland counties" you meant the entire of mainland Britain. Possibly a little ambiguous... Owain 18:57, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Apologies. I read it as "[this] Isn't the latest addition:" as if a reference to the ABC's maps, I'll clarify Scottish mainland. but BTW are Worcestershire and Flintshire the only seperated counties except for the furness? --garryq 10:09, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

As far as the ABC map goes yes - from their map page at http://www.abcounties.co.uk/counties/map.htm : "For the sake of convenience and practicality only the major (i.e. most sizeable) detached parts are shown (specifically those of Flintshire, Lancashire, Dunbartonshire and Worcestershire). All other detached parts are shown as part of the County in which they locally lie." Owain 12:19, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I've reverted the last edit and removed the following text:

The association also seems uncertain about how traditional to be. The map shown on its homepage and a larger scale version accept the 1889 reform of local government in Scotland. The separated parts of various counties are not shown. Thus, Ross and Cromarty are shown as one unit. Likewise Morayshire is not cut in two by a large exclave of the County of Inverness. Of the many mainland counties having detached parts, only Dunbartonshire is shown as having two separate areas, a situation left unchanged by the 1889 local government reform.

The ABC is very clear on its website that its map excludes most exclaves for convenience, and that "Ross-shire and Cromartyshire are show as one unit" (for purposes of a simple map), not that "Ross and Cromarty" is a county in itself. I don't know why it doesn't show the large exclaves of Morayshire - probably cartographical laziness. If you read the "postal directory" section of the website, it is clear to the ABC that Aviemore lies in a detached portion of Morayshire; this portion is not shown on their map "for convenience". The simple map is simply that - a rough impression of the Counties. It isn't a 'manifesto'. Read the text if you want the 'manifesto'. This sort of speculative mud-throwing about "being unsure" is complete poppycock. People should read and understand the ABC's position before trying to extract alleged inconcsistencies from a map that is displayed with the clear warning that it makes no claims to small scale accuracy and only shows a few named exclaves for graphical convenience. 80.225.40.210 18:56, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

POV

This article seems to lack balance.--IanDavies 03:17, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Strongly agree. For example, last time I looked the Kingdom of Fife was an historic kingdom, not an historic British county. Just zis Guy you know? 19:20, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Eh? Why can't you accept that it can be both? This is an article about an organisation that has specific ideals, whether you agree with them or not. Owain (talk) 12:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

It's about a minor pressure group of nutters. It's oly because some of those nutters are on Wikipedia and determined to use it to push there reactionary views by adding traditional county articles to parallel the current counties.--84.9.194.234 13:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

These people are not "nutters", they are proud of their history and determined that politicians should not take away their identity. As it happens the traditional counties have a continuing legal existence, but even if they didn't, it would be a laudable aim to try and keep the well-known and historic names and areas in the public conscience. Owain (talk) 14:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Strange. Weren't the counties ESTABLISHED by politicians (European ones actually - Normans, who ran an Anglo-French-Irish empire) in order to govern the country more efficiently? In the North the Normans more or less ignored traditional divisions and created large counties such as Lancashire and Yorkshire. By 1974 Lancashire had a larger population than many independent nations. Why should not local government boundaries follow changes in population and the requirements of adminstration? Of course we can REMEMBER and celebrate the historic counties - but they exist only as lines on a map.

Exile 15:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually the Anglo-Saxons established the counties, but okay. Zacwill16 (talk) 07:36, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

I can accept it is both. But for some reaosn only one of the two - the one backed by a pressure group - is on infoboxes. I wonder why that is? Just zis Guy you know? 13:49, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

There is a standard set of counties that have a continuing legal existence and that people continue to use. There are any number of other overlapping mediæval kingdoms that could be used to describe where a place is, but they are entirely dependent on a time-critical context. In the context of counties, the traditional set are still relevant and used today. What is the problem? Owain (talk) 14:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

For values of "standard" that exclude legal definitions, and for values of "people" that includes at least some who are pushing an agenda. The problem is that Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Just zis Guy you know? 14:42, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Have you read the relevant legislation? I have. I am not pushing an agenda, other than that of factual accuracy. Owain (talk) 14:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Cool. So, in the interests of factual accuracy, you can cite the size of the orgnisation and the significant coverage in reputable sourcves, right? Just zis Guy you know? 17:12, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

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