Help talk:Pronunciation respelling key

"Wikipedia Respelling" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Wikipedia Respelling has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 October 5 § Wikipedia Respelling until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 08:01, 5 October 2025 (UTC)

"Wikipedia respelling" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Wikipedia respelling has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 October 5 § Wikipedia respelling until a consensus is reached. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 08:01, 5 October 2025 (UTC)

Mary, Marry, and Merry

These words are used as examples for /ɛər/, /ær/, and /ɛr/ respectively, yet at least the majority of the United States pronounces these words the same, and thus they aren't very good examples of each sound for many people. TheAllegedFerretBuisness (talk) 18:37, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

It seems like you have it backwards. The reality is that most Americans pronounce these words (and all words in their same lexical sets) the same, which entails that there are no examples that would help them. They have a phonological merger. Wolfdog (talk) 22:02, 3 November 2025 (UTC)

More respelling options for /aɪ/ (igh?)

There should be other respelling options for /aɪ/, such as "igh" (as is used in the OED and NBC Handbook of Pronunciation for respelling). Under the current key, a sound like /jaɪ/ would need to be respelt as yy or yeye. Totally unreadable/useless respelling. Sandhals (talk) 09:53, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

/jaɪ/ is extremely rare, and we don't need three ways to represent /aɪ/ (and if we do, there should be a clear way to know which one to use when, as there currently is for eye vs y). Respelling /aɪ/ with igh is not out of question, but it should be to replace eye/y, not in addition to them.

Respelling /aɪ/ is indeed difficult. See /Archive 5#The PRICE vowel for the last time we took a stab (only to be shot down). Nardog (talk) 15:51, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

I maintain my support for ⟨uy⟩ as the respelling for PRICE. It arguably makes the most sense, if we want a single respelling. Sol505000 (talk) 22:43, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

And I maintain my strong opposition to it. In my dictionary of 235,000 English words, there is only a single word which contains "uy" followed by a consonant, where the "uy" is pronounced /aɪ/: "guydom", which is obviously a compound relying on "guy". There simply is no support in standard English spelling for "uy" followed by a consonant being pronounced that way. CodeTalker (talk) 02:35, 26 November 2025 (UTC)

This would be problematic in the case of banned onsets, like /nd/ or onsets falsely showing aspiration or lack thereof (this also involves flapping, glottaling, what have you). Elsewhere you can just put ⟨uy⟩ at the syllable-final position. I'm not sure how prone to misinterpretation ⟨uy⟩ really is, to be honest. Remember that we don't have ⟨ə⟩ in English orthography at all, unless it comes to some Azeri loanwords - and even in those, the correct pronunciation is /æ/, whereas /ə/ or /ʌ/ would be a misreading. Sol505000 (talk) 12:15, 26 November 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, ah, ay, oh also don't typically appear before consonants (or anywhere) in orthography but no one has trouble understanding them. Nardog (talk) 12:31, 26 November 2025 (UTC)

@Nardog This is also a problem at Heli (biblical figure), pronounced /ˈhilaɪ/, where HEE-ly looks like */ˈhili/ and HEE-leye could easily be misinterpreted as */ˈhileɪ/. I opted for HEE-lye, because it's a logical extension of the "extra e" already specified for cases like TYTE. Theknightwho (talk) 22:22, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

Came here because the guide for a fellow named Gallego was ghy-EH-goh. It seemed obvious to go with guy-EH-goh in this case, where it sits alone in a syllable. "Buy" is another very unambiguous way to write the syllable /baɪ/. — Misha Vargas (talk | contribs) 01:55, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure if anyone cares about this anymore, but:

Spelling /aɪ/ as UY only makes intuitive sense for the words already spelled that way. For anything else, it looks ridiculous:

• "pie" … /paɪ/ as PUY
• "die" … /daɪ/ as DUY
• "chime" … /tʃaɪm/ as CHUYM

For some words, people might be able to intuit that UY represents /aɪ/, but I think much more often they'll look at that and say "Umm, /uːi/?" (to rhyme with "gooey"). I think IGH has potential but it can be confused with /ɪɡ/. For example, if you use IGH in unstressed syllables, which I was originally considering (so to not conufse /aɪ/ with /i/), KAK-ty ("/ˈkækti/?") becomes KAK-tigh ("/ˈkæktɪɡ/?"). It should probably be relegated to being a fringe respelling option for /jaɪ/, but included nonetheless, for completeness's sake.

And, I think KAK-tye or maybe KAK-tie, which is not currently supported, would be the best, most unambiguous option here. I don't know exactly which situations it would be appropriate to write /aɪ/ as YE or IE, but I'm sure they're out there. I'll probably put forward a real proposal for this sometime. Hugo P. Behrmann (☎) 13:08, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

I agree generally; as you can see above, I only wanted "uy" as a noted option for the syllable /gaɪ/. I don't think it works generally. ～ Misha Vargas (talk | contribs) 21:18, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

@Misha Vargas I think "tye" is the best choice, too, as it's a simple extension of the way we already add an extra E for words like "tight" (TYTE, not TYT). The only place this causes an issue is after "g" (because "gye" is likely to be interpreted as "jye"), but "guy" works perectly, so I think we can allow it as as a special exception. Theknightwho (talk) 22:38, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

/ju/ examples

In the key, where it lists examples of ew meaning /ju/, it lists cute, beauty, and dew. However, in some accents, such as mine, the yod is dropped in dew, leaving ambiguity. On the IPA help page, the yod in such cases is grouped with the consonant, for example, there is an entry for /dj/, listing dew as an example. ~2026-25466-17 (talk) 22:40, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

That's the point. ew after a tautosyllabic d represents /juː/ for those with the yod and /uː/ for those without it. Nardog (talk) 22:47, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

Looking back, I realize now that my original comment was pretty unclear. Sorry! What I meant to say was that the way that it's currently presented could be confusing for some. If someone, say, drops the yod in "dew" but not in "cute," then they might be confused because ew would appear to represent both /uː/, as in cute, and /juː/, as in dew. I referenced the IPA help page because it doesn't seem to have this issue; now, that hypothetical reader would interpret "dj" as /d/ but interpret "kj" as /k/. Replicating that strategy here seems impractical, as it would probably require separate entries for all of dew, lew, and so on, but perhaps it deserves an explanatory note or something. ~2026-25466-17 (talk) 23:39, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

Can we note the use of the upside-down e?

Hello,

I was wondering if we might could note the use of the upside-down e in the lead. It currently says that the upside-down e is used once, when in fact it is (part of) an item twice in the list.

I would do it myself, but I don't know enough about the subject.

Thanks!

JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 01:13, 11 May 2026 (UTC)

It does not say it's used once, it says that the upside-down e is the only character used in this system that is not part of the ordinary English alphabet. Nardog (talk) 06:39, 28 May 2026 (UTC)