Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Snooker/Archives/2025/March

Eurosport becomes TNT

Now that Eurosport has become TNT, any citations we have that point to www.eurosport.com will be redirected to www.tntsports.co.uk. Some of these redirects work OK, and some don't. For those that give a "404" error, we will need to change |url-status=live to |url-status=dead, assuming the citation has an archive. I've already done a couple, but there are loads more to do. For those Eurosport citations without archives, we are, I think, stumped. The "Wayback Machine" behaves in the same way (geoblocking) with TNT articles that it did with Eurosport. But "Ghost Archive" works OK with such articles.  Alan  (talk) 15:52, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

@AlH42 eurosport.com will only redirect to tntsports.co.uk when someone views the site from the UK and Ireland: elsewhere, it will still continue to operate as is. We don't really need to migrate the citations, beyond archiving as needed, but there is probably an exercise that could be done to move away from using Eurosport links as a verifiable source in most cases due to all the geoblocking issues and loss of access to these sources anyway (eg if there is an article in the Metro talking about the same stuff as a Eurosport article, replace the citation with a link to the Metro article instead). --CitroenLover (talk) 14:26, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

I agree that we should stop using Eurosport/TNT unless it is absolutely necessary. However, the Metro is not regarded as a reliable source. Better to use the BBC, the Guardian etc.  Alan  (talk) 14:35, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Problem is: the BBC and Guardian barely report on snooker tournaments [I have hardly ever seen the Guardian reporting on snooker, would like a link to see their reporting]: indeed the BBC will only really actively report on their own tournaments and then the odd daily round-up for random tournaments, and even then, sometimes their reporting is from other regions' reporters [see: Richard Petrie doing daily reports on the Scottish Open which were completely focused on Mark Allen and nobody else]. If we want to use snooker sources, totallysnookered.com and snookerhq.com may be better sources if we're forbidden from using the Metro. I also don't know why we don't allow Metro links when its in the context of the snooker reporting, as Phil Haigh does an excellent job interviewing players and the like, it feels like we are intentionally restricting ourselves from a source that is quite actively involved in following the sport. --CitroenLover (talk) 17:49, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Well the Guardian does do snooker from time to time. See this for example. I think totallysnookered.com and snookerhq.com are regarded as "fansites" and should therefore be avoided. We, unfortunately, need to rely very much on the WST.  Alan  (talk) 18:03, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

...and we're not forbidden from using the Metro, it's just not regarded as reliable. See this.  Alan  (talk) 18:38, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Most of the Metro's snooker coverage is from Phil Haigh, a respected snooker journalist who co-hosts the Talking Snooker podcast. Whatever about the rest of the Metro, his snooker articles should always be regarded as reliable information. I've found far more mistakes in BBC articles than in his pieces in the Metro. HurricaneHiggins (talk) 19:18, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

...and delving a little deeper, the Metro is (apparently) OK to use for snooker. See this.  Alan  (talk) 19:19, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Re totallysnookered.com and snookerhq.com, these are run by journalists, not fans, its just a different way of reporting on the sport than traditional mediums. That being said, rarely is there anything unique on those sites, but they should be used alongside other sources as well.

as for Metro, if that source is allowed, then yes we should be making an effort to use it as much as is feasible. —CitroenLover (talk) 10:10, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Fine - anything that gets us to stop using Eurosport/TNT is OK with me.  Alan  (talk) 10:53, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

My personal view is that SnookerHQ is run by a journalist and I have very little worries about it's quality and editorial influence. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:48, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Returning to the Eurosport/TNT problem (although the discussion about the Metro is interesting), we really do need to "migrate the citations" as I would think that the majority of readers of our articles are in the United Kingdom and Ireland, for whom these citations will not now work.  Alan  (talk) 19:53, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Agree - @Lee Vilenski may be able to advise on the best way for us to migrate as many Eurosport citations as we can, perhaps it will require a bot, but may require a lot of manual work on the part of editors. — CitroenLover (talk) 15:21, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I don't think it's about "migrating" as such. All that is needed is to change the |url-status parameter from live to dead for those ones that don't now work. For those without archives, I think we are screwed.  Alan  (talk) 15:28, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

WP:IABot (and it's associated meta talk page) is the solution. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:50, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

It turns out to be less of a problem than I had originally thought.
I have checked through the Maximum break, Century break, and Snooker articles and have made a few changes to the citations as appropriate. I have also checked through all of the tournament articles for the current season and only found two changes that needed to be made, one in the Masters, and one in the German Masters.
Now that the consensus seems to be that it's OK to use the Metro and snookerhq.com for snooker references, I have replaced a couple of Eurosport citations with ones from and Phil Haigh and David Caulfield.
Can we please stop using Eurosport/TNT in favour of the other resources identified.  Alan  (talk) 15:32, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Agreed: @Lee Vilenski could you advise if theres a page [perhaps the wpsnooker project page?] we can put up a notice about how there should be a preference to using any other source if possible, so as to avoid Eurosport/TNT being linked in snooker srticles? I dont think we have an easy-to-find list of approved sources for snooker pages, and it would be good to document them [as well as banned sources and reasons why]. CitroenLover (talk) 10:11, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

...and I have now checked all the Eurosport/TNT citations for the 2023–24 season, and they all [sort-of] work. This check has highlighted yet another reason why Eurosport/TNT should be avoided: in many cases they change the title (and content) of the page after we have cited it, so that for ones which have been archived the archive is completely different to the current page. I know that the BBC and WST also do this, but to a much lesser extent.  Alan  (talk) 19:44, 12 March 2025 (UTC)