Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers

Clarify wording of MOS:CENTURY

I found the following from MOS:CENTURY to be a bit redundant, verbose, and confusing:

• The 18th century refers to the period (1701–1800), while strictly the 1700s refers either to (1700–1799) or (1700–1709). When using forms such as the 1900s, ensure there is no ambiguity as to whether the century or the decade is meant.

So I changed it to:

• The form the 1700s can refer to either (1700–1799) or (1700–1709). If there is ambiguity, consider more precise forms such as the 18th century or the first decade of the 1700s.

The statement "The 18th century refers to the period (1701–1800)," was repeating an earlier bullet point. The word "strictly" seemed confusing and unneeded. Feel free to revert if you think it is a step backwards. Noleander (talk) 14:14, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

Your change was reverted because it equates the 18th century with the 1700s. As you say, the previous phrasing was redundant. I changed the bullet point to a new phrasing: When using forms such as the 1700s, ensure there is no ambiguity as to whether 1700–1799 or 1700–1709 is meant. I also moved up the bullet point, to have it closer to the definition of a century. Joe vom Titan (talk) 13:03, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Commas after years in Australian English

I've made a search of the archives without finding a definitive answer:

In Australian English, which sentence construction is correct?

"In April 2017, Frank married Sheila."
"In April 2017 Frank married Sheila."

What are the rules of grammar regarding use of a comma after a year in Australian English?

In American English, the date format places commas before and after the year, except in some edge cases, but in Australian English for DMY dates, using the comma after the year is deprecated in the Australian Government Style Manual.

I may be getting old, but I've always regarded a comma as indicating a pause, unless we're dealing with long numbers or CSV or such. If the date precedes or is part of a parenthetical clause, use commas on both sides (eg. "When Frank married Sheila, on 7 December 1941, the weather that day was clear and calm.") but otherwise, why use a dramatic pause?

Asking Perplexity Pro and Claude gives answers quoting the AGSM:

In Australian English, the correct construction is "In April 2017 Frank married Sheila." No comma is needed after the year.

Australian style follows the day-month-year sequence (e.g., 14 April 2017) without punctuation between elements in body text. When only month and year appear at the sentence start, like "In April 2017," omit the comma after the year, as it's unnecessary for clarity in this format—unlike American English, which often adds commas.

The Australian Government Style Manual explicitly states: "Don’t include a comma or any other punctuation" for such dates.

When I look at an article I'll occasionally tidy away such commas unless they are part of a parenthetical clause, where a pause is required. Apparently this tweaked a nerve in a biographical article on a subject where Australian opinion is apparently sharply divided on the matter of war crimes, and well, I thought I'd best bring this here. Is there any definitive, hard and fast rule on commas in dates? --Pete (talk) 21:02, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

• Commas are not regulated by ENGVAR, per a recent RfC. Either construction is acceptable in any variety of English, subject to editorial discretion and local consensus. This is a subjective style decision on which the MoS takes no stance, not a matter of 'correctness'. As an additional point, you should avoid making changes from one acceptable style to another, per MOS:STYLEVAR. Yours, &c. RGloucester — ☎ 21:12, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

  Thanks. The RfC discussion is very helpful. --Pete (talk) 00:17, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

Also, a Government Style Manual supposedly governs the government, or some parts of it, but others may or may not follow it, just as with other style guides. Gawaon (talk) 21:41, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

For context please see Talk:Ben Roberts-Smith#What's your story?. TarnishedPath^talk 00:37, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

the Australian govt style manual is... weird. The name is a bit misleading; it's basically a house style. IMO, australianstyleguide.com is much more reflective of actual use (i.e. including journalism, informal communication, etc., not just govt documents) ―Tosca-the-engineer (talk) 04:58, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

"Wikipedia:SEASON" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Wikipedia:SEASON has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2026 May 8 § Wikipedia:SEASON until a consensus is reached. George Ho (talk) 00:17, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

Temperature range display suggestions?

Greetings, anyone got any idea how Temperatures vary sharply between day and night, dropping to −10 – −20 °C (14 – −4 °F) during the night, in Laguna Miscanti could be written more readably? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:02, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

Using dashes for both negative and the range is harsh. How about: Temperatures vary sharply between day and night, with nighttime temperatures being around −10 to −20 °C (14 to −4 °F).  Stepho  talk  10:11, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

Or, nighttime temperatures can be down to -20ºC with daytime highs up to ? (Whatever the high is). Avi8tor (talk) 10:19, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

Went with a recast instead so that it doesn't duplicate the wording. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:57, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

Comments on time zone and UTC offsets

in writing time zones, what is the preferred formatting regarding parentheses? with or without? typically some editors (me included) would also like to include both the time zone name (abbreviation) and the UTC offset. what then? if taking the examples from the existing text, I would extrapolate:

12:00 JST, not 12:00 (JST)?

18:00 WEST (UTC+1), not 18:00 (WEST, UTC+1)?

At 06:00 JST on 27 May (21:00 UTC, 26 May), not At 06:00 (JST) on 27 May (21:00 [UTC], 26 May)?

though, note that infoboxes, such as {{Infobox event}}, automatically include such parentheses automatically. should that be changed?  Juwan  🕊️🌈 15:48, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

WP:YEAR and WP:YEARS

The top of section WP:YEAR contains the following note:

"WP:YEAR" redirects here. For WikiProject Years, see WP:YEARS.

The mention of WP:YEARS was introduced in 2022 by @Frostly. @FaviFake changed the note, mentioning WP:WTF (and later WP:EGG) as rationale, to the following:

"WP:YEAR" redirects here. For the WikiProject, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Years.

I reverted the change. As I understand it, this note is about the similarly between WP:YEAR and WP:YEARS, and it's a hint in case someone picked the wrong shortcut. The use of the shortcut WP:YEARS instead of the full link is a deliberate choice. It's quite likely that someone will confuse WP:YEAR and WP:YEARS. Much more likely than a possible confusion between WP:YEAR and Wikipedia:WikiProject Years. What do others think? — Chrisahn (talk) 15:19, 8 June 2026 (UTC)