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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Path to Rome/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 12:04 18 March 2026 FACBot (talk) 21:39, 18 March 2026 (UTC).[reply]

The Path to Rome


Nominator(s): ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:04, 24 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

One of my great intellectual weaknesses is that I love the works of Hilaire Belloc, a cantankerous and shamelessly partisan curmudgeon, oft-criticized for his lack of fact checking, oft-lauded for his incisive attacks on Whig history, but maybe best known for his (possibly negative) influence on G. K. Chesterton. This book contrasts with his main body of work in that it is an absolute delight and filled to the gills with joy. Describing his 1901 pilgrimage on foot from the town of Toul to the Vatican, newer reprints of this book have subtitled it "A Portrait of Western Europe Before the World Wars" and for good reason. The tale also contains poetry, "enchanted cigarettes", praise of windows, horse slapping, verbal abuse, arguments with an imagined reader, divine intervention, imprisonment, and a perilous fight against a midsummer blizzard. This book was my "trench companion" during some difficult years of my life and I am pleased to make this my second FAC. My deepest thanks to Chiswick Chap and UndercoverClassicist for their wonderful suggestions and reviews. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:04, 24 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • File:The_Path_to_Rome_(title_page).png needs a US tag, and the current tag appears incorrect - Belloc did not die until 1953, well under 100 years ago
  • File:ETH-BIB-Griesgletscher,_Nufenenstock,_Basodino,_Maggiatal_v._N._W.-Inlandflüge-LBS_MH01-005489_(cropped).tif needs a US tag. Ditto File:ETH-BIB-Villa_Bedretto,_Ronco,_Nufenenpass,_Griespass_v._O.-Inlandflüge-LBS_MH01-006141_(cropped).tif, File:Hilaire_Belloc_Low.jpg. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:37, 25 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Jon698

@ThaesOfereode: I do not write about books on Wikipedia, but this does look like a fun article to read. I am also a fan of walking. Jon698 (talk) 11:51, 15 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking the time to review Jon698. I've responded to your comments below. ThaesOfereode (talk) 14:23, 15 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • So I toyed around with this a little while this page was still in the draftspace and one big problem was that this map doesn't cover basically any of the pertinent parts of France. And since he basically rushes through Italy, there's not much to pin there. I tried fooling around with country maps individually, but that got sort of unwieldy quickly (you can see how; I've preserved my attempts in my sandbox). Willing to take another look if you think it would really improve the article. ThaesOfereode (talk) 14:23, 15 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • All nine images in this article have proper alt text and are in the public domain. Even with modern copyright terms of 70 years after death all of his stuff went into the public domain in 2023.
  • Could "encountering a unique statue of Saint Mary in the town he was born in" be changed to "encountering a unique statue of Saint Mary in his birthplace La Celle-Saint-Cloud"
  • "Belloc's mother tried desperately to convince him against going." and "reportedly had to beg his sister for" -> feel like they violate the spirit of MOS:NOFORCELINK. Could you change the sentences to be "Belloc's mother Bessie Rayner Parkes" and "his sister Marie Belloc Lowndes"?
  • "While visiting the town he was born in" -> same as above. Could you change this to "While visiting his birthplace La Celle-Saint-Cloud"
  • "Jerusalem with hundreds of Russians for Easter" -> Unnecessary to wikilink Easter as it was already linked to earlier
  • I usually see the Notes as its own sections on articles, but if it is a style thing for books or your own style then I have no issue with it being a part of the References section
Thank you for the notification. I always forget to indicate my support for FAs. Jon698 (talk) 20:17, 21 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note

This has been open for more than three weeks and has yet to pick up a support. Unless it attracts considerable movement towards a consensus to promote over the next three or four days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:44, 17 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Totally understood. Given the lack of interaction, can I request to forgo the two-week waiting period should things stay the same? ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:49, 17 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Support from UC

I had a look at this previously (an informal PR at the author's request, as I remember) and enjoyed it then. This seems like a good time to come back to it.

  • after encountering a unique statue of Saint Mary: an unusual statue, maybe? Belloc's narrator says it's unlike any other he has seen, but that's not the same as saying it's different from all others that exist.
  • My understanding is that was unique, given that the town only has one Catholic church and Belloc relates that it was so strikingly in the spirit of his valley, which suggests to me that it must have been created as a devotion by a local. Can still change if you want, though I think "unusual" may impart the idea that it was weird in some way. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:21, 18 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • In one way -- aren't (almost) all statues unique, in that they're made as one-off jobs by individuals? I'm not sure I'm comfortable using Belloc as a WP:RS to vouch that (for example) there wasn't another copy of this statue made by the same sculptor and displayed in a mountaintop convent in Provence. I'm not particularly wedded to "unusual" but I'm not sure Belloc actually is saying it was unique, and even then, I'm not sure he would be qualified to do so -- so we have a double problem under WP:V. UndercoverClassicist T·C 15:48, 19 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • with elements of both modernist and postmodernist literary styles: I think we need to say something like "it foreshadows/anticipates aspects of postmodernist style", since postmodernism proper didn't emerge until the 1960s.
  • (who is both combative and confused): always both of those things? If not, we should clarify.
  • It is considered to be among the best in his literary canon and the quintessential example of his travel literature: can cut to be, if you like, for concision.
  • Belloc himself had a warm affection for the book; he later recounted that it was "the only book [he] ever wrote for love".: even in the lead, direct quotations are normally cited.
  • Hilaire Belloc was a French-English author and historian well-known for his ardent defences of the Catholic faith: I don't see any of this on the cited page, particularly the last bit -- I was looking to see whether "well-known for..." was true before 1902.
  • Well, Belloc wasn't really well-known at all at the time. He defended Catholicism at Oxford, but I think he was mostly known for that only within Oxford circles until he gained wider notoriety later in life. I'll leaf through Pearce to see if I can't find some more context. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:21, 18 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Belloc's mother Bessie tried desperately to convince him against going: from her article, it seems that Bessie Belloc was quite a figure: we might be selling her a bit short here. How about something like "Belloc's mother, the poet and feminist campaigner Bessie Rayner Belloc,?
  • At the time, Belloc and his wife had three young children and were struggling financially, but his journalistic work at The Daily News had earned him as much as £14 (equivalent to £1,913 in 2023) a week: I have to ask the question -- yes, children are expensive -- but the man was on the equivalent of nearly £100,000! What on earth was he spending it all on?
  • I think "as much as" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. While it's true Belloc notoriously struggled with finances throughout his life and this was probably the most financially secure moment, he was probably making much, much less than with a much less regular income than weekly. I think Pearce's purpose (and by extension mine) is to express that he had real journalistic opportunity, but felt that it was too capricious a career to rely on. Whether travel writer–turned-polemicist is somehow more stable... well, we might understand why he struggled throughout his life in this regard. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:21, 18 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • he was owed ... seven guineas (equivalent to £1,000 in 2023) from The Daily News: by the Daily News?
  • At the beginning of June 1901, Belloc departed for Paris, bought clothes for his journey, and finished all but six pages of his biography of Robespierre on the evening of 5 June: was all this on 5 June? If not, suggest breaking the sentence a little: ..."his journey; he finished all but...".
  • recounts his pilgrimage on foot from the town of Toul in northeastern France to Rome after encountering a unique statue of Saint Mary in La Celle-Saint-Cloud, the town he was born in.: it sounds in the lead like it was seeing this statue that inspired his pilgrimage, but in the body we find out that he had been planning to go to Rome for a year before he returned to France.
  • The statue did inspire the pilgrimage. The visit to La Celle-Saint-Cloud occurred a few months before he departed for Toul. The first few pages of the book explain. I've added a clause to the summary to make this a little more clear. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:21, 18 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I still don't find this very clear -- I think the issue is that the "Background" section signs off as if it's going to flow straight into the summary, but then we find that the sentence The following day, he departed for Toul and sent his wife a postcard. comes a little bit later, with A few months later, Belloc begins his pilgrimage in Toul -- both of these time phrases put us in the same place. Did he write the whole thing in one go, or had he already been to La Celle-Saint-Cloud when he started writing, and only then cross for his journey to Toul? Earlier, we have On New Year's Eve 1900, Belloc wrote to the American journalist Maria Lansdale that he was planning a pilgrimage from his old garrison in Toul to Rome the following Easter. : so has he already seen the statue by that point? In general I think clarifying the relationship between the writing and the journey, and the chronology of both, would be a step forward. UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:07, 22 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@Gog the Mild: I think this is my major outstanding quibble. UndercoverClassicist T·C 19:11, 4 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@UndercoverClassicist: Apologies for having apparently missed this! I think I have addressed this in a way that works, but let me know if the tense is off or this still needs more rephrasing. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:39, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
It's better -- probably my final quibble on this -- should the trip to La Celle-Saint-Cloud, and therefore the decision to make the pilgrimage that became the book, not be part of the "Background" section? UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:40, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I wondered this too and went back to review the big Belloc bios and none of them mention his trip to La-Celle-Saint-Cloud. Wilson shifts straight from the birth of his daughter Elizabeth, as do Speaight and Pearce. I suspect this episode may be overshadowed in the literature in part because it's sandwiched between two huge moments in his life (meeting Chesterton and moving to Sussex), and in part because it's already captured in the book. Given its absence in the biographical literature (and perhaps its redundancy), I think it might be best as is. If you insist, I can try to work something, but I'd probably have to cite to Belloc himself. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:08, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
At the moment our presentation doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me: the trip is clearly important, and it happened before the writing of the book, so it's odd to have a "Background" section that doesn't mention it at all. I can't square that with FACR 1b: comprehensive: it neglects no major facts or details and places the subject in context. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:54, 7 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Before Path was written, Belloc was in and around Paris writing a book -- inventively titled Paris -- which he published shortly before the Robespierre book. None of the biographies mention La Celle in the context of Path's production, but they do mention his marching around Paris shortly before that time (traveled there in February 1900; Paris was published that May). Presumably, this is when he would have encountered the Marian statue, but no one mentions this at all. I looked through this copy of Paris and not even Belloc himself mentions La Celle. I am trying to be wary of OR here, but would additional context about his 1900 trip to Paris for Paris satisfy your FACR 1b concerns? ThaesOfereode (talk) 14:55, 7 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I think the issue is this bit: On New Year's Eve 1900, Belloc wrote to the American journalist Maria Lansdale that he was planning a pilgrimage from his old garrison at Toul to Rome the following Easter. He told her he planned to write "whatever occurs to me to write [...] décousu  and written anyhow of its essence. We make it sound like a spontaneous decision in the Background section, then go back and explain in the Summary that the real inspiration was this trip to La Celle. Even if we only say that he later explained the decision, in The Path to Rome, as the result of a trip taken to La Celle in [date], that would be to the good. A minor thing, but it would be nice to clarify whether this trip happened before NYE 1900, if that's possible. UndercoverClassicist T·C 18:21, 7 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Belloc is in Paris between Feb and May 1900 and presumably he would have visited La Celle during these months, but I don't think we can say for certain without getting into OR/SYNTH. I've moved/added some clarifications so it's less of a jump when the reader hits the Summary section. We can certainly say that it was before NYE 1900; Belloc wrote that he was inspired to take the trip after a visit to La Celle, then he writes to Lansdale on NYE 1900, has to delay his trip (i.e., Easter to Feast of SS Peter and Paul), then he travels. I'm not seeing/reading anything that suggests Belloc was planning this trip before his Paris book. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:09, 9 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I understand the bind you're in here. I think what you've done is fine -- we've vouched that the trip happened, and let what happened on it (which only Belloc can tell us) nicely ambiguous between fact, fiction and whatever middle ground the book as a whole occupies. UndercoverClassicist T·C 20:37, 9 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent. Thanks for the support, UC; as usual, you've helped improve this article substantially. ThaesOfereode (talk) 21:56, 9 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • MOS:PLOT says that a plot summary should usually be between 400 and 700 words. Ours, by my rough count, is about 1800. For a 400-page book that seems a lot! Is there room to reduce it? I notice that the whole thing is under 4000 words, which makes the summary about half the article: I'm not convinced that's a suitable balance of narration and context/analysis/reception for an FA.
  • Normally, I find bloated summaries really annoying and often fix them myself. Here, I had a real problem doing so. For one, this is not a traditional narrative; there's no climax it builds towards nor really any narrative flow other than the progressive movement south. At the same time, several moments throughout the story, typically revolving around some kind of spiritual gravity (also cf. "pilgrim's providence" comment below), which I would argue anchor the narrative, but that don't necessarily feel like they would belong in a novel's summary. I've removed the majority of what I feel can be removed, but I am uncertain how many episodes of the journey can be removed before it simply becomes a list of towns and how he got to them. I will continue to think of ways to tighten it up if I can though. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:21, 18 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • We're still on nearly 1600 words: that's about twice as what we have for the Odyssey, and indeed we've managed to do the notoriously lengthy Infinite Jest in under 400. Every book has a lot of important things in it (particularly from the point of view of somebody deeply attached to it), but I can't really see that the current approach is compatible with the MoS, and therefore with the FA criteria. Cutting by 50% is likely to be more of a fundamental change than simply snipping out incidents; I'm afraid more ruthless hatchet-work may be called for. UndercoverClassicist T·C 15:48, 19 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I made the comments below before the one above: they may well end up moot as a result, but I'll keep them here in case they prove useful:

  • While visiting the town he was born in, La Celle-Saint-Cloud,: I would say roughly where this was. More generally, I'm a bit confused by the chronology here. In early June 1901 he's in England: he sets off for Toul on 5 June. La Celle-Saint-Cloud is near Paris, so did he go there first, before starting the "actual" pilgrimage, and then go to Toul? There seems to be a gap in the narrative between the end of the "Background" section and the start of this one.
  • I still think we make slightly too much use of quotation: see Toul, which he chose as the starting point because he had "served in arms for [his] sins" in the French Army there -- better as "served". "For my sins" is a cliché, but if Belloc meant it as anything more than that, we should explain in an EFN.
  • which makes the pain almost magically dissipate: likewise: immediately?
  • discovers for the first time open-fermented wine: can you discover anything not for the first time?
  • The entire town floods into the church: MOS:IDIOM: for a moment I thought the bell was ringing to alert people to a literal flood.
  • his foot and knee pain remain bothersome: a bit awkward: suggest "the pain in his foot and knees remains...".
  • Along the Aar: the River Aar, I think -- most people won't know what it is.
  • He gets a guide to help him: can we do better than gets: employs? Recruits? It's not totally clear whether we mean a book or a person here.
  • he only has eight francs and ten centimes (equivalent to £81.02 in 2021): is this false precision with the rounding? Presumably 10 centimes = 10% of a franc?
Well, centime means "hundredth", so ten centimes = 1/10 of a franc. Since one franc = about £10, 1 centime = about 10p, and therefore we need to round to the nearest 10p in the modern unit -- we don't have the precision to speak about hundredth of a pound. UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:11, 22 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The specific example is now moot, but see later only one franc and eighty centimes (equivalent to £17.65 in 2021), where we have the same problem. UndercoverClassicist T·C 10:46, 22 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be best to just remove the inflation template? It only comes up once in the hatcheted summary and only matters because the train ticket costs precisely the amount he has. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:20, 23 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all -- just use the |r= parameter to adjust the number of significant figures. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:39, 23 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, maybe I don't understand how the template works. With the extant r= parameter 0 is 17.65, 1 is 18.05, and anything higher is 18.03. Going the other direction, -1 is 16.05 (??) and anything lower is 0. Do I need to apply the parameter to a different subordinate template? ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:45, 23 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
That's very weird. I don't pretend to understand the inflation template (Hawkeye7 seems to be one of the few who does), but will have a look later on. UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:47, 23 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The issue was where the rounding is -- it needs to happen in the {{From USD}} template, as that's the last step of the calculation. However, when I do that, it rounds to 17.7 (not 17.70). I've asked for help at the template's talk page. For now this isn't a showstopper. UndercoverClassicist T·C 06:38, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • He metes out an ambitious plan: not sure about the idiom here: mete means to dispense or allot.
  • Belloc takes off, grateful but confused: why confused?
  • The map seller lets him use the map without buying the map. He doesn't even charge him less just for a peek. As a personal piece of OR for here, this maps clearly with the "pilgrim's providence" theme throughout the book, where good luck happens to him in ways that feel totally irrational but get him to Rome on time. Sadly, I couldn't find any literature discussing this topic specifically. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:21, 18 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I'll hold it there for now: that length point is a big one, unfortunately, so it's probably best to handle it before going too much further. UndercoverClassicist T·C 11:35, 18 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

UC, as usual, it is a pleasure to have you review; thank you for taking the time on this page (now and before!). I hope I have addressed the above adequately. ThaesOfereode (talk) 22:21, 18 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Between Thayon and Épinal, he overexerts himself,: cut the comma here.
  • His time in France is rife with admiration for the locals and overconfidence in his ability to cross a great distance: not sure rife with is the right idiom here: characterised by? Clarify his overconfidence (not theirs)?
  • He becomes so frustrated he has to sit down: this sounds like a pretty minor detail?
  • Fatigued after passing through mountainous terrain, a waggoner asks if he needs a ride: a dangling participle: is it Belloc or the waggoner who is fatigued?
  • As Belloc pushes deeper into Switzerland, his linguistic capacity increasingly diminishes: I think this could be a bit clearer: we mean "he doesn't speak Italian/Romansch/whatever the people were speaking very well", but it sounds like "he's so frostbitten that he loses the ability to speak anything".
  • and shortly races through Tuscany.: is shortly right here: shortly after? Soon?
  • As he passes through the Gate of the Poplar of the Old Wall of the Vatican: it might be worth being 100% explicit that the Vatican is in Rome.
  • Belloc tells the audience that he will not tell them anything about Rome itself: anything further, presumably.
  • it has no chapters, overarching headings, or dates to orient its audience: subheadings? Not sure what a heading can be if not overarching.
  • Belloc himself wrote of its style: it sounds like he wrote this during the writing process -- that would be worth clarifying?
  • elements of the later postmodern movement are also present: can we put a sentence at the end of this paragraph to say what these are? In particular, most readers (this one included) won't be 100% confident in disentangling modernist devices from postmodernist ones.
  • The embedded narrative between Belloc and the Lector character forms a complex and metaleptic narrative: can we rework to avoid the repetition, and explain metaleptic in this context?
  • and relates the character to the English yachtsman at the beginning of G. K. Chesterton's spiritual autobiography Orthodoxy.: for those of us who haven't read Orthodoxy, it would be useful to have a phrase like "who..." to explain the similarity.
  • The Path to Rome was by far Belloc's most financially successful publication: to that point, or of his lifetime?
  • His lifetime and still now, probably. This is sometimes seen as the zenith of his literary career. It's possible that The Servile State has overtaken it, since it experienced something of a minor rediscovery. I didn't want to say lifetime mostly because of that context, but I've added it in anyway since it probably is helpful. ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:35, 23 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Chesterton, a then-new acquaintance of Belloc's: not sure about then-new -- we'd hardly say formerly new. I assume that the point is that they later became close, but if that's important enough to say, we should say it.
  • I notice that there's a lot of explicitly Catholic reviewers/publications in our handling of the book's reception, though I don't really get the sense (apart from the obvious point that it narrates a pilgrimage) that it's a particularly Catholic book. Any thoughts on that, either way?
  • There's something interesting about that, right? On the one hand, it's a very Catholic book; Belloc is marching to Rome, he makes connections with different cultures because they share the same faith, and he connects himself to Europe through a medieval romanticism. At the same time, it's pretty temperate by Bellocian standards, which is probably why it was relatively successful in Protestant England. The rest of Belloc's oeuvre is much more overtly Catholic, some being basically invective at the Reformation. I virtually guarantee that the Catholic reviewers/publications discovered his work through either his political work (The Servile State) or the aforementioned invective (probably Europe and the Faith) and found a more temperate way to introduce Belloc to a wider (adult) audience. ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:35, 23 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Belloc was also a massive influence on the English poet Ivor Gurney.: massive is a very strong word indeed and almost informal: I think we need a very good argument to keep it over something like "substantial", "major", "dominant".
  • In the dedication of his inaugural poetry book: at the risk of sounding like Orwell, why inaugural when first will do?
  • as acknowledging the physical beauty of nature as both a blessing of God and as a testament to His power. lc his outside a direct quotation: we're not a Christian publication.
  • all four are tepid Catholics: MOS:IDIOM perhaps.
  • By contrast, though published earlier, The Path to Rome's Belloc is a "Catholic at home in Christendom" who can no longer be alienated from his surroundings.: I don't understand the "though published earlier" thing here -- it sounds like Wilhelmsen is trying to set up a narrative of spiritual growth and maturity when the obvious line of analysis is the other way -- that the Belloc of The Path to Rome has a young man's certainty, while Myself in The Four Men has grown more doubtful?
  • I think it's both a comment on Belloc's growth in writing more complex narratives and an (arguably) uncharacteristic later introspection. In Path, Belloc writes about himself at the time as himself rather plainly; in Farrago, he writes about himself, four different ways, at four different times of his life, all on one long walk interacting with one another. In other words, Belloc in Farrago uses Myself to represent himself before the Belloc of Path. ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:35, 23 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Belloc in Farrago uses Myself to represent himself before the Belloc of Path.: have we explicitly stated that in the article (I may just have missed it) -- if not, seems relevant? UndercoverClassicist T·C 13:40, 23 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Sort of. I've added something that I think helps clarify it. ThaesOfereode (talk) 13:59, 23 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • He is able to travel with gratitude and a sense of humour, a member of the Church Militant destined to be a member of the Church Triumphant. He has conquered doubt after a fierce struggle and is granted some peace for having done so: I think this is a quote, but it isn't presented as such. If it isn't, we need to tone down the prose a bit.
  • which contrast his anti-capitalist sentiment from his contemporaries: with that of his contemporaries: but were all of his contemporaries anti-capitalists? If not, we need to rework slightly. I think we could also do with being clearer about who we're talking about here: presumably Marx and his followers are somewhere in this picture?
  • Note d: so does McCarthy use those quotes? If not, this is a bit too literary for Wikipedia, I think.
  • In the dedication of his first book of poetry Severn and Somme, Gurney named Belloc as one of its dedicatees and described The Path to Rome as his "trench companion": we hint at this with the title, but it's probably worth being explicit that Gurney was talking about literal trenches here.
  • Two years after publication, Belloc wrote in his own copy of the book: "I wrote this book for the glory of God". On the Feast of the Epiphany four years later, Belloc had written a short poem in his own copy of the book: this is a bit clunky and repetitive. The tense should be wrote, rather than had written, and I'd put in the calendar date per MOS:NOFORCELINK (keeping the festival too). UndercoverClassicist T·C 07:22, 23 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

MCE89

This was a great read, thank you for writing it! Just a few comments from me MCE89 (talk) 04:45, 26 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for the review and the kind words, MCE89; I'm glad you enjoyed the article! I've responded to your comments below. ThaesOfereode (talk) 12:00, 26 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me, happy to support. MCE89 (talk) 08:33, 27 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Wonderful, thank you for your support MCE89. I appreciate your comments. ThaesOfereode (talk) 11:47, 27 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the beginning of June 1901, Belloc departed for Paris, bought clothes for his journey — Should this have "...where he bought clothes for his journey"?
  • The transition between the "Background" and "Summary" sections felt a little jarring to me, as you switch from a past tense recounting of his journey to a present tense summary of his journey as it is described in the book. That's obviously not something that can be avoided, but I wonder if adding something like "The Path to Rome opens in the Paris suburb of La Celle-Saint-Cloud..." or similar to the beginning of the section might help to orient the reader
  • so extraordinary and so different from from all I had seen before — I assume that this repeated word is an error and not part of the original quote?
  • Belloc sees a sign divine mercy - Should this be "sign of divine mercy?
  • According to Mikhail Bakhtin's analysis of carnivalesque literature... — Is this statement being attributed to Frassati Jakupcak, or is this in wikivoice?
  • Lunn recounted it as his favourite book — "Described" feels a little more natural here than "recounted"
  • at least once more every year — "Once more" seems to imply that he already read it every year, whereas the source just says that he made a point of reading it once per year
  • Similarly, Belloc expresses a number of defences... the socialist project — This long sentence took me a couple of attempts to parse — might be worth splitting or rephrasing

Source review

A diverse source body. I don't have access to most of these sources, however. Formatting seems mostly consistent and nothing jumps out as unreliable, although some sources seem pretty old. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:35, 4 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Jo-Jo, thanks for helping review. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe all of the subscription-access sources should be accessible through TWL. ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:14, 4 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Courtesy ping in case you forgot about this one. Thanks again for doing a source review on this. ThaesOfereode (talk) 19:16, 16 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

MSincccc

Lead
  • "the Paris suburb he was born in" → "the Paris suburb in which he was born"
  • "explain his decisions to the audience" → "explain his decisions to the reader"
  • Retrospectives have similarly praised the book, with much of the praise
    • You could avoid repeating "praise" in the same sentence.

MSincccc (talk) 05:40, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Background
  • "expressed an anxiousness to finish it" → "expressed an eagerness to finish it" or "was anxious to finish it"
    • A suggestion.
  • "from his old garrison in Toul to Rome" → "from his old garrison at Toul to Rome"
In British English, at is idiomatic when referring to being stationed at a place or garrison, hence the suggestion. MSincccc (talk) 15:22, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, after I sent this, I did wonder whether that might be the case. Changed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:12, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
"In" is perfectly fine too -- the Grenadier Guards are stationed in London. We're more likely to use "at" the closer the garrison is to being the whole place. There's a difference between a variation in phrasing and a mistake. UndercoverClassicist T·C 18:48, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
“In” is grammatically correct, but by suggesting “at” I meant that the latter felt more idiomatic in this context. MSincccc (talk) 05:04, 6 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

MSincccc (talk) 05:46, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Summary
  • He is released to a celebrating crowd and soon races through Tuscany.
    • Was he known to the crowd?
  • “Thayon” → “Thaon”, or is Thayon an alternative spelling?
  • Belloc spells a *ton* of the names in the book differently than their modern spellings, esp in Italy. Whether that was convention at the time, local dialect names, or just Belloc interpreting the pronunciation, I'm unsure. ThaesOfereode (talk) 14:18, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • which makes the pain almost instantly dissipate
    • How about "disappear" in place of "dissipate"?

MSincccc (talk) 06:30, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Structure and style
  • Frassati Jakupcak has described Belloc's use of the Lector narrative as a form of defamiliarisation and relates the character to the English yachtsman at the beginning of G. K. Chesterton's spiritual autobiography Orthodoxy, who accidentally lands back in England believing he has discovered a whole new world both identical to his homeland and totally alien from it.
    • You could split this sentence.
  • "It is composed with dozens of illustrations" → "It contains dozens of illustrations"
    • A suggestion.

MSincccc (talk) 07:17, 5 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Bottom line

RoySmith

  • It has been compared positively with the works of François Rabelais and Laurence Sterne It's not clear what the anticedant of "it" is supposed to be. The book, or the book's genre?
  • stream-of-consciousness style and contains several conversations perhaps "stream-of-consciousness style, containing several conversations ..."? I find this kind of "X and Y" construct awkward, but in this case particularly so given "... and an imagined reader", so the rephrase avoids both problems.
  • several passages and pieces of dialogue are written in various languages don't be a tease, just tell the reader what lanaguages are used.
  • It's not always clear; whether Belloc was regularly misspelling Italian or writing down the more literal Gallo-Italic languages is kind of unclear.
  • The Path to Rome was Belloc's most financially successful work How does "financially successful" differ from just plain "successful"?
  • Critical acclaim and later beloved versus making a lot of money. I'm not married to "financially", though it's worth noting that Wilson seems to frame it as basically Belloc's only substantive financial victory. Specifically here, it may be worth pointing out that there is some debate as to whether this or The Servile State is his most successful work. Certainly in terms of the financial success Belloc saw during his lifetime, Path is more successful, but in terms of his legacy, I don't think there's much of an argument to be made against the idea that it was The Servile State. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:09, 9 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • he later recounted that it was "the only book [he] ever wrote for love". This is an odd paraphrase. If you're quoting something he said, why the use of the third-person [he]? Why not [I]?
  • Born in France to a French father and an English mother year of birth?
  • finally attaining British citizenship in 1902 why "finally"?
  • once marching from Philadelphia to California for the sake of readers not familiar with American geography, tell them how big a distance that is. And why "marching"? To me, marching implies a specific military style of walking. Is that actually what he did?
  • I've included a rough estimate for between Philly and Napa (Hogan's hometown). As for the marching, it always implied to me a purposeful trek, but I'm happy to change it if you'd like. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:09, 9 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. Marching sounds weird to me, but I'm not invested in this one, so I'll leave it to your best judgement. RoySmith (talk) 00:19, 9 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • he went the local Catholic church ... The statue is ... He makes five vows This change of tense is kind of odd. I'm not sure it's wrong, but it still seems strange.
  • A few months later, Belloc begins his pilgrimage in Toul again, this change of tense. And back again to the past tense with "which he chose".
  • injuring his foot does he only have one foot?
  • Shortly thereafter, Belloc enters Switzerland My initial reaction was "Why does walking from France to Rome take you through Switzerland? Once I found Toul on a map, it became obvious, but you should save your readers the wondering by supplying a map of his route.
Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop may be able to be of assistance. RoySmith (talk) 00:20, 9 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Oh great idea. I had no idea this place even existed. ThaesOfereode (talk) 12:24, 9 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Belloc tells the audience that he will not tell them anything further about Rome clarify who "the audience" is here? Was it the people gathered in the church for Mass, or the readers of his book?
  • This has come up a few times, but the Lector character is the presumed reader; I want to preserve him as "reader" for clarity's sake and the readership of the book as "audience", if possible, given the strangeness of the book's format. ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:09, 9 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
  • Frassati Jakupcak describes the literary genre and style ... and turmoil in familiar circumstances Overly long and complicated sentence.
  • Frassati Jakupcak describes ... I had to search back to discover you're talking about Maria Frassati Jakupcak. Is it standard usage to refer to her by Frassati Jakupcak, as opposed to just Jakupcak as MOS:SURNAME seems to suggest?
  • the book sold around 112,000 copies I don't think you need to say "around"; it's generally assumed that a number ending in multiple zeros is an approximation.
  • Belloc expresses a number of defences for later themes in his work, which contrast his anti-capitalist sentiment from his contemporaries' the plural-possessive here is not wrong, but I think this would read easier as "... from those of his contemporaries". But, ugh, I see you use that construct in the next sentence, so repeating it would be awkward. Still, I think some sort of rephrasing to avoid the plural-possessive would help here.

Overall, this is very nice. Interesting and easy to read. Ping me when you've had a chance to work though my suggestions above. RoySmith (talk) 18:43, 8 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Support on the prose, mostly WP:FACR 1a. A nice little article about a subject I previously knew nothing about. I think adding a map of his route is important, but don't see any reason to hold up my support while you work on that. RoySmith (talk) 00:40, 9 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for the kind words and helpful suggestions, Roy. I appreciate the time and effort. ThaesOfereode (talk) 12:24, 9 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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