Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Hongwu Emperor/archive4

Hongwu Emperor

Nominator(s): Min968 (talk) 07:36, 13 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the Hongwu Emperor, the first emperor of the Ming dynasty. I have tried to improve this article as well as the articles related to the Ming dynasty. (After three times without much attention and reviews, I hope this time it will be okay.) Min968 (talk) 07:36, 13 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Jon698

I would love to look over this article. I will be making some comments soon. Jon698 (talk) 11:40, 13 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I will be using Yongle Emperor for comparison in some parts
1. The Yongle Emperor's lede mentions him being the the fourth son of the Hongwu Emperor in the first paragraph. Could a mention of Hongwu Emperor's low-birth be mentioned as well? Currently his only family mention in the lede is being orphaned.
- Done.
2. "a government of generals and Confucian scholars" -> Wikilink Confucianism
- Done.
3. "In 1344, during a plague epidemic, Zhu Xingzong's parents and one of his brothers died." + "Zhu then entered a local Buddhist monastery." -> These should be part of the same paragraph if you are going to use the word "then"
- Done.
4. "Zhu then entered a local Buddhist monastery." -> Wikilink Buddhism
- Done.
5. "The presence of Taoist and Buddhist secret societies" -> Wikilink Taoism
- Done.
6. "In 1352, when the Yuan army burned down Zhu's monastery after suspecting the monks of links to the White Lotus society, Zhu joined the rebels." -> Could this be reorganized to be easier to read like "Zhu joined the rebels in 1352, as the Yuan army burned down Zhu's monastery after suspecting the monks of links to the White Lotus society."
- Done.
7. "On 15 April of the same year," -> "of the same year" is unnecessary as the year has already been stated in the previous sentence
- Done.
8. "Zhu entered into a dispute over Hezhou, a city situated on the banks of the Yangtze," -> Wikilink Hezhou
- Done. Hezhou (Anhui)
9. "In July 1355, the Hezhou rebels obtained a fleet from rebels arriving from Chao Lake" -> Wikilink Chao Lake
- Done.
10. "Zhu defeated the local Yuan commander Chen Yexian (陳野先), who surrendered to him, but Chen betrayed Guo Tianxu during an attack on Jiqing (present-day Nanjing) in September 1355." -> This could be shortened to "The local Yuan commander Chen Yexian (陳野先) surrendered to Zhu, but Chen betrayed Guo Tianxu during an attack on Jiqing (present-day Nanjing) in September 1355."
- Done.
11. "In January 1369, the main army, led by Xu Da, captured Taiyuan, while Köke Temür retreated to Gansu. In the spring of 1369, Ming troops also began to occupy Shaanxi.[76] They had fully captured the province by September 1369, but border skirmishes with Köke Temür's troops persisted until 1370.[77]" -> Does this need to be its own paragraph? It is continuing the story from the previous paragraph so shouldn't they just be one paragraph?
- Done.
12. "It remained unchanged until the fall of the empire, although additional provisions were later added." -> Just a technicality, but shouldn't it be dynasty rather than empire? Entirely optional change
- Done.
13. "The administrative structure of the Ming dynasty was modeled after the Yuan model" -> Could "modeled" be changed to "based" as "modeled after the Yuan model" feels awkward
- Done.
14. "restrictions on personal names" -> I think a wikilink to Chinese name would be useful since naming conventions in China are dramatically different from the west
- Done.
15. "the Sumatran Kingdom of Melayu" -> Wikilink Melayu Kingdom
- Done.
16. "attacking eastern Mongolia and Manchuria with another 50,000 soldiers" -> wikilink Manchuria
- @Jon698: Done. Min968 (talk) 05:10, 18 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]
I have no more comments. BTW if you want, could you leave a comment on my FAC

ZKang123

Will do a review.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 03:41, 17 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Lead:

The orphaned Zhu then briefly lived as a novice monk, begging for alms and gaining insight into common people's hardships, while developing a dislike for book-dependent scholars - suggest spliting. Also "then" is unnecessary
In 1352, he joined the Red Turban rebels, a movement that sought to overthrow Yuan rule, and soon proved his ability, rising to command his own army - "soon proved his ability" is also redundant
In early 1368, after successfully dominating southern and central China, Zhu chose to rename the Kingdom of Wu. He decided on the name Da Ming, which translates to "Great Radiance", for his empire, and designated Hongwu, meaning "Vastly Martial", as the name of the era and the motto of his reign. - Slight rewrite to: After successfully dominating southern and central China in early 1368, Zhu decided to rename the Kingdom of Wu to Da Ming, which translates to "Great Radiance". He also declared himself the Hongwu Emperor, meaning "Vastly Martial", which was also the motto of his reign.
but his attempt to conquer Mongolia ended in failure - but failed to conquer Mongolia
Lead is quite missing on his death and who succeeded him. Might mention the leadership struggle between his grandson and the uncle who overthrew him
- All done.

Rise to power:

widespread opposition to the rule of the Yuan dynasty - also mention the Yuan was Mongol-led
and took control in order to establish order in the surrounding area - wont taking control already mean establishing order? Might just say "and established order in the surrounding area"
While Zhu was considered physically unattractive[24] and he began as a rank-and-file fighter, his exceptional leadership, decisiveness, martial skill, and intelligence quickly earned him significant authority. Might rewrite to: "Zhu began as a rank-and-file fighter. While he was considered physically unattractive, Zhu's exceptional leadership, decisiveness, martial skill, and intelligence quickly earned him significant authority.
Unlike other leaders of his time, Zhu had a small number of relatives who were appointed to important positions, at a time when family ties were crucial for ensuring loyalty and reliability need clarification: do the other leaders have more relatives appointed, or none at all? Because the way it's written seems ambiguous
The rivalry between Peng and Zhao escalated into a full-blown conflict. Guo was initially captured Guo was captured by who? And in this conflict, did he side with anyone, or remained neutral?
The local Yuan commander Chen Yexian (陳野先) surrendered to Zhu, but betrayed Guo Tianxu during an attack on Jiqing (present-day Nanjing) in September 1355. How did the local commander betray Guo? Like, just leave Guo to the Yuan forces and pulled out?
For the subsection "Southern campaigns and northern expeditions (1367–1382)" please be aware of WP:PROSELIST
- All done.

More comments to come.--ZKang123 (talk · contribs) 12:19, 23 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

RoySmith

I've already reviewed a couple of these (Jianwen and Yongle), I might as well do this one as well. As is my wont with long articles, I'll attack this in sections over a few days. RoySmith (talk) 01:13, 19 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

One general comment is that at 8700 words, this is getting into the area where reviewers are going to start complaining about the length. It's possible this is what dissuaded people from reviewing it the first couple of times it was here. Articles usually get longer during reviews; you'll need to be vigilant to keep that from happening. Look at every word and sentence and ask yourself if it's really pulling its weight or if it could be cut without loss to the overall article.

The article has been reduced to about 8202 words, approximately the same length as the Yongle Emperor article that was recently successfully nominated for FA. Min968 (talk) 09:17, 20 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

The first sentence should state this this is in China.
Born in 1328 into a poor peasant family doesn't peasant imply poor?
in 1367 he formally recognized Han Lin'er recognized him as what?
At this point, I'm just one paragraph into the lead and I'm already struggling to keep up. We've got the Ming dynasty, the Yuan dynasty, the Red Turban rebels, the Mongols, the Kingdom of Wu, and the Song (dynasty, I guess). How are all these entities related to each other?
Zhu chose to rename his state What state is that? I'm guessing the Kingdom of Wu?
- All done.

Early life

had served in the Song army resisting the Mongol invasion explain to the reader what Song was. And who the Mongols were. These things may seem obvious to you, but many readers will know nothing about Chinese history and will quickly get lost.
wandered as a mendicant monk many readers will be unfamiliar with "mendicant" so that needs explaining.
people of eastern Henan and western Anhui Explain what Henan and Auhui are.
during which he learned to read, write, and study the basics of Buddhism this makes it sound like he learned to study the basics of Buddhism, which is not, I suspect, what you meant. He studied, he didn't learn to study.
- All done.

Rise to power

The harsh taxation policies, famine, and catastrophic flooding in the Yellow River basin, caused by inadequate flood control measures the harsh taxation was not caused by inadequate flood control.
counteroffensive and advance along the Grand Canal what is this grand canal and where is it?
There's lots of action here and lots of unfamiliar place names. A map really is essential. Enquire at WP:LAB/MAP to see if somebody can create one for you.
- File:Red Turban.png, is it okay?
Guo submitted to Peng, while his four colleagues submitted to Zhao.[22] What does it mean to "submit" in this context?
Chen Zhaoxian (陳兆先), the nephew and successor of Chen Yexian, surrendered to Zhu with 36,000 troops. Who had 36,000 troops? Chen or Zhu? The wording is ambigious.
one division per prefecture. what is a prefecture?
- All done.
Zhu controlled the southwestern part of Jiangsu, all of Anhui south of the Yangtze River, and the inland of Zhejiang. Again, confusion over where these places are. The only of these I've ever heard of is the Yangtze River, but I don't actually know where it is. This really needs maps to show this graphically.
By 1393, these territories had a population of 7.8 million. I don't have a feel for whether this is a lot. Is it 1% of the total population of China? 10%? 90%?
- Done.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to stop here. I started this yesterday and got as far as I could before getting confused. So now I'm picking this up the next morning and not making any more progress. There's just too many people and too many events to keep straight and a jumbled narrative. As I said earlier, maps are essential. I would also suggest some sort of graphical timeline which could show the overlapping time spans of the various events. RoySmith (talk) 12:07, 19 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@RoySmith Thank you for taking the time. Min968 (talk) 13:09, 19 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy to have been able to be of some assistance. I do encourage you to keep working on this. It's an important subject, but a hard one to cover due to the vastness of the topic. I see you mentioned File:Red Turban.png above. I don't think it's a great map from a graphical point of view, but more importantly, it's not really tied to the text. The right process is to write about the events you want to present to the reader, then generate a map which illustrates exactly those events, allowing the reader to use the textual and graphical presentations to support each other. As I mentioned, the folks at WP:LAB/MAP are good at this sort of thing and I highly recommend that you take advantage of their services. Producing the maps needed to properly illustrate all of these events is a lot of work, but for a topic of this importance at the FA level, it's an investment that's worth making. RoySmith (talk) 13:19, 19 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@RoySmith I just added a map, not sure if it's okay. Min968 (talk) 13:41, 19 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with that map is it shows so much stuff, it's impossible to find the specific places that are referenced in the text. I know I'm being repetitive here, but I strongly encourage you to work with the folks at WP:LAB/MAP to develop maps which are customized to show the events you talk about in the text. RoySmith (talk) 13:46, 19 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@RoySmith I have submitted a request at Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop. Min968 (talk) 14:02, 19 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Векочел

I will review this. Векочел (talk) 08:43, 25 June 2026 (UTC)[reply]