Jocafus

Toto discography

Hello. It does not matter how Toto's website capitalises the letters in the title. Some sources capitalise every word in a title—it does not mean we should replicate them. Wikipedia has its own rules regarding capitalisation. Please see MOS:CT and WP:TMRULES. Thank you. Ss112 18:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

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European Free Alliance

Hi @Jocafus, I saw your edits on European Free Alliance. What was the reason for deleting the country information for the president/secretary-general in the infobox? Seems rather customary for European parties (I guess unlike national parties, where this is more obvious). Julius Schwarz (talk) 19:55, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Julius Schwarz. When updating the infobox, I thought it didn’t seem very appropriate to include the state next to the names (especially in the case of EFA), so I took the opportunity to remove it. My reasons:

1. It seems a bit arbitrary to indicate the state they belong to and not the political party or the nation/region they come from.

2. I think there’s a fairly clear political undertone in indicating the state of origin of the president or secretary-general in a party that has independentist or separatist members —and which, on its own website, also doesn’t use the state when describing where its member parties come from—, and it doesn’t really add relevant information for the reader to justify including it in the infobox. Jocafus (talk) 02:22, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I fear that you might be reading a bit too much into it. Of course, it is clear that the EFA itself emphasises regional origin over national origin, and that is in line with its ideology. However, the EFA's own ideology cannot be the reason for decisions made on Wikipedia. It has long been a recurring practice to indicate the member state of origin of key staff (usually president and SG) of European political parties, European political foundations, and other European political alliances. So not special case was made for the EFA, and the removal of this now creates a discrepancy which I don't think is welcome and supported. National parties do not need this, but it is clearly relevant for EU-level entities. Julius Schwarz (talk) 08:09, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Jocafus, happy to get your feedback on this, as I believe this ought to be reinstated but would rather discuss it first. Short of an agreement, I think it would be worthwhile to discuss it more broadly with other contributors! Julius Schwarz (talk) 08:31, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Julius Schwarz, sorry for the delayed reply, and thanks for your collaborative message.

I still feel that indicating the member state of origin for the president and/or secretary-general is quite arbitrary and doesn’t provide particularly useful or necessary information for readers. In fact, showing the national political party they belong to might be more informative, as it usually links to a Wikipedia article that includes additional context —such as their country of origin. For example, in the case of the EPP, it could be something like President: Manfred Weber (CSU), Secretary-General: Dolors Montserrat (PP), which already gives relevant political and national context through the party wikilink. By contrast, linking to a general state article like ES or FR doesn’t really add much.

In the specific case of EFA, this kind of information feels especially out of place. As I mentioned before, listing the state next to individuals who are politically active in movements seeking independence from those states can come across as odd or as if it has a political intention behind it.

I do understand the need for consistency across articles on European political parties, and I agree that it's a valid concern —although some others, like the ELA don't include this either—. Still, I think it's debatable whether this specific detail (the state of origin) is essential, especially when it could conflict with the political character of parties like EFA.

Happy to continue the discussion here or open it up to more contributors if needed! Jocafus (talk) 18:16, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

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