Talk:XMPP Standards Foundation

Yet another time when I wish that MediaWiki was not so insistent that the only protocol in the world is HTTP. Just *try* to fix the xmpp: link to jdev. hildjj 04:53, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Most of the existing links leading to people (Dave Smith, Kevin Smith, Matt Tucker) are not actually articles about the ones mentioned, I'm sort of newbie, so I don't know if I should make a disambiguation page or change the links. --Zenek.k 22:03, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The standard operating procedure is making the link into something like [[Dave Smith (xmpp)|Dave Smith]], which will make it a redlink, or simply to delete the linkage. For a wonder, all links except Dave Smith seem correct - Dave Smith is a dabpage, I doubt the correct destination is Dave Smith (engineer), but there's not enough info here to tell. --Alvestrand (talk) 06:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on XMPP Standards Foundation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100201101518/http://xmpp.org:80/summit/summit1.shtml to http://xmpp.org/summit/summit1.shtml
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090127051940/http://xmpp.org:80/xsf/docs/bylaws.shtml to http://xmpp.org/xsf/docs/bylaws.shtml

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:03, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Suggested refactoring of XMPP Standards Foundation article

• What I think should be changed (include citations):

Extended content

Replace introduction

Suggested new introduction, to replace the current paragraph that exists on the original page prior to the 'history' heading:

The '''XMPP Standards Foundation''' ('''XSF''') is a non-profit organization that develops and maintains open standards for the [[XMPP|Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP)]], a decentralized, real-time communication protocol.<ref>{{cite web |title=XMPP Standards Foundation |url=https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation/ |website=xmpp.org |access-date=2026-02-10}}</ref>

The foundation is responsible for stewarding the core XMPP specifications in coordination with the [[IETF|Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)]] and for managing the XMPP Extension Protocol (XEP) process, which defines optional extensions to the protocol.<ref>{{cite web |title=XMPP Standards Process |url=https://xmpp.org/about/standards-process/ |website=xmpp.org |access-date=2026-02-10}}</ref>

The organization was founded in 2001 as the ''Jabber Software Foundation'' and was renamed the XMPP Standards Foundation in 2007 to reflect the protocol's standardization under the name XMPP.<ref>{{cite web |title=XSF Organizational Documents |url=https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/organizational-documents/ |website=xmpp.org |access-date=2026-02-10}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |title=Proposal: XMPP Standards Foundation |url=https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/records/proposals/xmpp-standards-foundation/ |website=xmpp.org |access-date=2026-02-10}}</ref>

• Why it should be changed:

1. Accurate description of responsibilities: The updated intro clarifies that the XSF manages both core XMPP specifications and the XEP process, rather than only providing general oversight.
2. Improved neutrality and clarity: The current introduction lacks precise citations. The revised version cites primary XSF sources to ensure verifiable and neutral statements.

Update Section: Organization

• What I think should be changed (include citations):

Update the list of individuals, following changes in leadership.

== Organization ==

=== Board of directors ===
The Board of Directors<ref>[http://xmpp.org/xsf/board/ XSF Board]</ref> of the XMPP Standards Foundation oversees the business affairs of the organization. As elected by the XSF membership. As of 2026, the Board of Directors consists of the following individuals:

* '''Guus der Kinderen'''
* '''Ralph Meijer'''
* '''Mickaël Rémond'''
* '''Florian Schmaus'''
* '''Arne-Bruen Vogelsang'''

=== Council ===
The XMPP Council<ref>[http://xmpp.org/council/ XMPP Council]</ref> is the technical steering group that approves XMPP Extension Protocols, as governed by the [https://web.archive.org/web/20090127051940/http://xmpp.org/xsf/docs/bylaws.shtml XSF Bylaws] and [http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0001.html XEP-0001]. The Council is elected by the members of the XMPP Standards Foundation each year in September. As of 2026, the XMPP Council<ref>{{Cite web |title= XMPP Standards Foundation (XSF) | XMPP - the universal messaging standard|url=https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation/#council}}</ref> is composed of the following members:
* '''Dan Caseley'''
* '''Daniel Gultsch'''
* '''Marvin Wissfeld'''
* '''Stephen Paul Weber'''
* '''Jérôme Poisson'''

=== Members ===
There are currently 56 elected members<ref>[https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/members XSF Member List]</ref> of the XSF.

==== Emeritus Members ====
The following individuals are emeritus members of the XMPP Standards Foundation:

* '''Peter Millard (deceased)'''
* '''Dave Smith'''
* '''Jeremie Miller'''
* '''Julian Missig'''
* '''Ryan Eatmon'''
* '''Thomas Muldowney'''

• Why it should be changed:

1. The listed information is outdated, since the Board and Council election in November 2025: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meeting-Minutes-2025-11-20

Add Section: Mission

• What I think should be changed (include citations):

Suggested new section 'Mission' to be positioned as first section on the page (prior to the 'history') section:

== Mission ==
The mission of the XMPP Standards Foundation is to build and promote an open, secure, interoperable, and decentralized infrastructure for real-time communication and collaboration on the Internet. The foundation focuses on protocol specifications rather than software implementations, and its standards are intended to be implementable without licensing fees.<ref>{{cite web |title=XSF Mission |url=https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/mission/ |website=xmpp.org |access-date=2026-02-10}}</ref>

• Why it should be changed:

1. Supports reader understanding: Including the mission in its own section makes the article consistent with Wikipedia standards for organization pages, which typically include a dedicated "Mission" or "Purpose" subsection.

Replace Section: XEPs

• What I think should be changed (include citations):

Suggested new section to replace the preexisting 'XEPs section:

== Standards and specifications ==

=== Core XMPP specifications ===
The core XMPP protocol is standardized through the Internet Engineering Task Force, primarily in RFC 6120, RFC 6121, and RFC 6122, with subsequent updates and clarifications published over time.<ref>{{cite web |title=XMPP RFCs |url=https://xmpp.org/rfcs/ |website=xmpp.org |access-date=2026-02-10}}</ref>

=== XMPP Extension Protocols ===
In addition to the core protocol, the XSF maintains the '''XMPP Extension Protocol''' (XEP) series, which defines optional extensions that add functionality while preserving interoperability between implementations.<ref>{{cite web |title=XMPP Extension Protocols |url=https://xmpp.org/extensions/ |website=xmpp.org |access-date=2026-02-10}}</ref>

The XEP process is open and community-driven, allowing anyone to propose an extension. XEPs progress through defined maturity levels such as ''Experimental'', ''Draft'', ''Final'', or ''Deprecated'' under the oversight of the XMPP Council.<ref>{{cite web |title=XMPP Standards Process |url=https://xmpp.org/about/standards-process/ |website=xmpp.org |access-date=2026-02-10}}</ref>

• Why it should be changed:

1. Removes trivial and anecdotal content: The pronunciation discussion ("JEP" vs "ZEP") is informal, unsourced, and not encyclopedic.
2. Improves readability and structureL Replacing the unordered list of example XEPs with a description of the XEP system itself provides a clearer, concise explanation suitable for a general audience.

Replace Section: XMPP Summit

• What I think should be changed (include citations):

Suggested new section to replace the preexisting 'XMPP Summit section:

== Activities ==

=== Summits and events ===
The XMPP Standards Foundation organizes regular '''XMPP Summits''', typically held annually or biannually, where developers and community members meet to discuss protocol development and future directions.<ref>{{cite web |title=XMPP Summit 28 |url=https://xmpp.org/2025/11/xmpp-summit-28/ |website=xmpp.org |access-date=2026-02-10}}</ref>

=== Publications and outreach ===
The foundation publishes regular '''XMPP Newsletters''' summarizing technical developments, community projects, and ecosystem news, and participates in outreach related to open standards and decentralized communication.<ref>{{cite web |title=The XMPP Newsletter – December 2025 |url=https://xmpp.org/2026/01/the-xmpp-newsletter-december-2025/ |website=xmpp.org |access-date=2026-02-10}}</ref>

• Why it should be changed:

1. Updates frequency and scope: The previous section contains specific outdated dates and locations (e.g., FOSDEM, RealtimeConf, 2006), which may not longer reflect all current practices. The new section uses neutral language describing annual or biannual summits.
2. Improves neutrality: Removing promotional or overly detailed logistical information (e.g., "no costs attached," "open to donations") aligns with Wikipedia’s neutral tone guidelines.
3. Adds publications and outreach: Including XSF newsletters broadens the activities section, providing a more complete picture of XSF's engagement with the community.

Guusdk (talk) 13:49, 11 February 2026 (UTC)

• @Guusdk: First, thank you for following the process for COI edits! The challenge I have with your requests is that they are all supported by only primary sources from the XSF's website. The goal is for articles to primarily have secondary or tertiary sources that talk about the organization, rather than being from the organization. Can you find some reliable sources from, for instance, tech media sites, that talk about the XSF and it's work? For example, was there an article on some site talking about the latest XMPP Summit back in November? Ideally an article that talked about how this latest XMPP Summit was one in a long series of XMPP Summits, etc.

The key is that the article about the XSF is not a place to promote the XSF but rather a place to talk about the XSF - and so the sources need to be from places other than xmpp.org . If you can identify such sources, it would make it possible to do these kind of updates that you are suggesting here. - Dyork (talk) 16:13, 11 February 2026 (UTC)

Hi @Dyork, thank you for the (fair) feedback. It is correct that the edit relies on primary sources, which is not ideal. However, the article currently relies on the same type of sourcing, and this edit does not introduce a new issue in that regard. While it does not resolve the preexisting sourcing limitations, I do not believe it decreases the article's quality. In other respects, the edit improves the article, and on balance I believe it is an improvement over the prior version.

To address the usage of sources more specifically, would these sources be adequate?

IONOS article: https://www.ionos.com/digitalguide/server/know-how/xmpp/

This article describes XMPP as an open communication protocol that was standardized through the IETF and maintained/standardized with ongoing updates. It mentions that XMPP was developed by the Jabber community and became an IETF standard, and while it mentions the XSF's role in implementation and standardization indirectly, it is not focused on the organization.

Use cases in Wikipedia article (supported claims):

• Support introductory descriptive claim that XMPP is an open, extensible communication protocol standardized through IETF and used for real‑time messaging outside xmpp.org primary sources.
• Help frame a context paragraph on XMPP's history as a protocol independent of the XSF's own website (e.g., "XMPP, originally developed in 1998 and standardized by the IETF, forms the technical basis for the XSF's work.")

IETF XMPP working group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/xmpp/about/

This page is an independent confirmation that XMPP is standardized through the IETF working group process. It lists RFCs and working group activity separate from the XSF.

Use cases in Wikipedia article:

• Citation for the claim that XMPP core is standardized via the IETF and not solely internally maintained by the XSF (relevant in the 'Standards and Specifications' section).
• Supports the introductory notion of XMPP as a recognized global open standard with international community consensus beyond the XSF.

GetStream blog post: https://getstream.io/blog/xmpp-extensible-messaging-presence-protocol/

The GetStream blog post, while it is not focused on the XSF as an organization, does independently describe XMPP as an open, decentralized standard and identifies the XMPP Standards Foundation as the body responsible for maintaining and evolving the protocol.

Concretely, this source can support these sections of my proposed edit:

• The introduction paragraph describing XMPP as an open, standardized, decentralized real-time communication protocol and the XSF's role as its steward.
• The statement that XMPP is standardized via the IETF RFC process, providing independent confirmation of that relationship.
• Support high‑level statements about protocol extensibility and standards‑based design in 'Standards and Specifications' section.

FOSDEM 2025 technical program: https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5721-a-universal-and-stable-api-to-everything-xmpp/

A major open-source conference listing a talk that explicitly explains how XSF is organized and how XMPP specifications are created, including mentioning XEPs. This is an independent program description from the conference website.

Use cases in Wikipedia article:

• Independent verification that the XSF organizational and standards process is discussed at a major open‑source conference, supporting notability and factual claims about the XSF's role in standards.
• Can be cited in 'Activities' or 'Standards and Specifications' to show recognition of the XSF's work outside its own site.

FOSDEM 2026 session description: https://fosdem.org/2026/schedule/event/7XJL9E-engineering_xmpp_federation_building_messaging_voice_social_features_across_inde/

This source shows that XMPP and the ecosystem around the XSF appear in independent technical contexts, and the session describes how the XSF interacts with implementations. It directly talks about the XSF's work on specifications and ecosystem collaboration.

Use cases in Wikipedia article:

• Supports for claims that the XSF's work is recognized and discussed in major forums beyond xmpp.org, lending weight to the Foundation's real‑world relevance.
• Use in 'Activities' or 'Standards' to note real‑world implementation/ecosystem involvement beyond internal documents.

IgniteRealtime blog post: https://discourse.igniterealtime.org/t/igniterealtime-heads-to-brussels-xsf-summit-fosdem-2026/96325

Although this comes from a community site rather than xmpp.org, it is not published by the XSF itself and therefore functions as a secondary mention of XSF activity outside of the organization's own website.

• In the 'Summits and Events' section, the blog post confirms that the XSF Summit is a recurring gathering where developers, maintainers and contributors across the XMPP ecosystem come together, and that the event is organized by the XMPP Standards Foundation. This provides confirmation of the existence and continuity of these summits.

I should note that I am also the author of the Ignite Realtime blog post. Because of that, I agree it shouldn't be treated as a fully independent secondary source on its own. I'm proposing it only as supplementary confirmation of factual details.

ProcessOne blog post: https://www.process-one.net/blog/supporting-xmpp-standard-foundations-open-letter-to-meta-for-true-interop/

This blog post covers an open letter issued by the XSF calling on Meta to adopt XMPP for interoperability. It is independent reporting of an XSF action and thus counts as third‑party coverage of an organizational initiative.

Use cases in Wikipedia article:

• Independent confirmation that the XSF publishes actions of public interest (e.g., advocacy on interoperability).
• Supports a sentence in 'Activities' about the XSF engaging with broader technical community and public dialogue.
• Helps show that XSF isn't only internally documented but that third‑party blogs report on its initiatives.

Guusdk (talk) 11:22, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

@Guusdk: Thanks for all of that. It's a good start. I'll see if I have some time to work on it in the weeks ahead. (Obviously other editors may do so as well!) - Dyork (talk) 20:30, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

Hi @Dyork! Thanks for your help a few months ago on this! Sadly, @Spintendo closed this due to inactivity recently. As I'm somewhat inexperienced with Wiki-processes, can you help me get this effort to improve things restarted? Thanks! Guusdk (talk) 07:44, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

• @Guusdk: I actually don't know the process to re-open something like this. It actually doesn't matter whether it is open or not if an editor actually just does the work. What's happened by closing it is that it will no longer appear on one of the pages that lists articles with COI edit requests. So editors who look at that page wouldn't see this one as needing help.

On my end, I've been swamped with deadlines in my work life and so haven't been doing as much editing on Wikipedia. I was hoping perhaps another editor would come along and pick away at some of this. I'll see what I can do... but it's going to be a week or two until I can do anything. - Dyork (talk) 23:30, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

@Dyork thanks for the fast reply! It is absolutely fine that real life responsibilities gets in the way of volunteering activities on Wikipedia. I don't feel that there's any responsibility to you to work on this change at all. I would very much welcome your help, if you're able to give it, but I understand that things simply do not always work out.

That said, even while this change was up on the COI edit requests page, it received no perceivable help other than your feedback. It having been _removed_ from that page makes it even less likely that others will pitch in to help. With the listing removed, I doubt that people even notice that there's pending work. That's why I think that the closure of the request _does_ matter (and why I'd like to see it re-opened). Guusdk (talk) 14:03, 29 May 2026 (UTC)

A response has not yet been received for this question.

Reply 21-MAY-2026

  Request closed for inactivity  

• The above edit request has not received any responses over the past 3 weeks (22 days in total).
• Discussion is often a key component to implementing edits, and requests may be adversely affected when they fail to garner input from either reviewing or requesting editors. In light of this — and as a safeguard — this request has been declined as needing more discussion.
• The COI editor is urged to revive stalled communications by making contact with local editors on those editor's own talk pages, and then by moving those discussions back to this talk page.
• The COI editor may also wish to broadcast requests for edits at the talk pages of the WikiProjects which govern this article. Those projects are usually listed at the top of an article's talk page.

Regards,  Spintendo  01:42, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

I would like to reopen this request if appropriate. I understood the discussion to be awaiting further reviewer/editor input, rather than requiring additional action from me. If such action is required, I am more than happy to provide this. I was in the 'be extremely patient' mode as suggested by the COI overview page. Guusdk (talk) 19:28, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

Following up on my COI edit request above. This request has now been open and then closed for inactivity, over a period of several months, without an independent editor being available to action it. I'm grateful to @Dyork: for the engagement and feedback earlier, and I understand entirely that real-life commitments have made it hard for anyone to pick this up.

Given that the request has not been able to attract a reviewer, I intend to begin implementing the proposed changes myself. I want to be fully transparent about this: I have a conflict of interest, which I have declared throughout, and I will flag it clearly in each edit summary. I'll make the changes as discrete, individually-summarised edits rather than as a single sweep, so that any of them can be easily reviewed, discussed, or reverted by other editors.

My aim is the same as it has been from the start: to improve the article. I remain very happy to discuss any of these edits, adjust them, or self-revert if another editor raises a concern. If anyone would prefer to action the request themselves instead, I'd genuinely welcome that. Guusdk (talk) 08:30, 18 June 2026 (UTC)

I have now made the three most straightforward changes myself as discrete, COI-flagged edits. The two remaining proposals (intro replacement and a Mission section) are more about framing, so rather than make them myself I've opened them as two fresh COI edit requests below, where an independent editor can act on either. Happy to adjust wording. Guusdk (talk) 14:18, 26 June 2026 (UTC)

References

COI edit request: introduction (June 2026)

Requested by a COI editor (XSF-affiliated). This is a fresh, self-contained request superseding the introduction part of the earlier (closed) request above.

Proposed change: replace the current lead paragraph (everything before the "History" heading):

−

'''XMPP Standards Foundation''' ('''XSF''') is the foundation in charge of the standardization of the protocol extensions of [[Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol|XMPP]], the open standard of [[instant messaging]] and presence of the [[Internet Engineering Task Force|IETF]].

+

'''XMPP Standards Foundation''' ('''XSF''') is a non-profit organization that develops and maintains open standards for the [[Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol|XMPP]], a decentralized real-time communication protocol standardized through the [[Internet Engineering Task Force|IETF]]. The foundation manages the XMPP Extension Protocol (XEP) process, which defines optional extensions to the protocol. It was founded in 2001 as the ''Jabber Software Foundation'' and renamed the XMPP Standards Foundation in 2007.

Reason: The current lead is a single unsourced sentence. The replacement cites the IETF (a source independent of the XSF) for the standardization claim, and states founding/renaming facts already supported in the History section. It is intentionally brief and avoids promotional language.

Independent sources that may help here are listed in the earlier (closed) request above.

Guusdk (talk) 14:11, 26 June 2026 (UTC)

 Done Sohom (talk) 08:02, 14 July 2026 (UTC)

COI edit request: add Mission section (June 2026)

Requested by a COI editor (XSF-affiliated). Self-contained request; independent of the introduction request above.

Proposed change: add a short section immediately after the lead, before "History":

== Mission ==
The XSF focuses on developing protocol specifications rather than software implementations, and its standards are intended to be implementable without licensing fees.<ref>{{cite web |title=XSF Mission |url=https://xmpp.org/about/xsf/mission/ |website=xmpp.org |access-date=2026-06-26}}</ref>

Reason: Gives the article a brief, factual statement of the organization's scope, consistent with how organization articles are usually structured.

Independent sources that may help here are listed in the earlier (closed) request above.

Guusdk (talk) 14:11, 26 June 2026 (UTC)

 Not done, the article is already a mess, I don't think this section is going to make things more neutral. Sohom (talk) 08:04, 14 July 2026 (UTC)

Part of me wonders if we even need a separate article about this Foundation and whether we can just merge this into the XMPP page? Sohom (talk) 08:08, 14 July 2026 (UTC)