Talk:WSVN/GA1

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Nominator: Nathan Obral (talk · contribs) 20:09, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: It is a wonderful world (talk · contribs) 20:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Nathan Obral, I'll review this. It's clear you have put a huge amount of effort into this article (424 citations!!!) so it deserves a good review. It'll likely take me a while to get through everything, but I'm looking forward to it. IAWW (talk) 20:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Preliminary comments on the sourcing are below. I will start the prose tomorrow. IAWW (talk) 20:48, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you so so much for doing this. I'll be going over everything as best I can but I truly appreciate your critiques in advance. Will denote my early replies with a 🦝 and ping when everything is done. :) Nathan Obral • he/him/🦝 • t • c • 16:54, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for your earlier replies. As a side note, I was reading through the diffs to see how long it took you to write, and I was confused because I couldn't see you much in the article history. Then I saw the +225,202 byte edit! That's insane. The biggest edit I have ever seen by a country mile. How long did this take you to write may I ask? And where did you work on it? IAWW (talk) 20:53, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

The sandbox is still available at User:Nathan Obral/sandbox/WSVN :) It took a good while, to be very honest, and took breaks from it every now and then for other projects. The death of another Wikipedian close to me and Sammi Brie last February honestly prompted me to finish it in his name. 💜 Nathan Obral • he/him/🦝 • t • c • 22:41, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

Well I am very impressed. Thanks for sharing <3 IAWW (talk) 07:02, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Prose (Criteria 1a, 1b, 4) clock

Lead

it was famously called "the future of television" by onetime Fox executive Lucie Salhany: Quotations always require an inline citation. IAWW (talk) 08:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. :) Y

Competing license applicants

As part of the application, WIOD and the News proposed a new studio facility built at WIOD's transmission towers on the 79th Street Causeway, totaling a $1.25 million investment: This is hard to follow, because it switches straight from a "proposed" new studio, to it being "built" in a few words, without any mention that the application was accepted. IAWW (talk) 08:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: rephrased to WIOD and the News proposed in the application to build a studio valued at $1.25 million (equivalent to $14.8 million in 2024) at WIOD's transmission towers on the 79th Street Causeway. Y

In addition, Biscayne would purchase WIOD from Cox, Knight would divest WQAM,[11] and Cox and Knight would each hold 42.5 percent of company stock, with Trammell holding the remaining 15 percent: Was this all part of Trammell's convincing, or was it just what ended up happening? IAWW (talk) 08:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Knight had to sell off WQAM in order to be in the partnership, due to then-existing FCC regulations preventing an individual or company from owning more than one AM station in the same city. Cox selling WIOD into the partnership was naturally what ended up happening. I tweaked the phrasing to address this. Y

and sold land to Mitchell Wolfson for WTVJ's transmission tower: Is this land that he already owned in Miami, which he sold while moving to Miami? IAWW (talk) 08:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: It was land Ansin sold to Wolfson in or around 1953, well after he moved to Miami. The WTVJ tower in question was activated in 1954. I can try to look and see if any transaction records exist, but am tweaking the sentence to suggest it did not happen simultaneously. Y

Cox cited the News's crusade against Al Capone's 1929 move to Miami: I think "crusade" is editorializing IAWW (talk) 08:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rephrased to "coverage". Y

Jack C. Stein testified for South Florida Television: What was his relationship with South Florida Television? IAWW (talk) 08:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: He was the company's president. Rephrased to address this. Y

Awarding the license

and were joined by a separate joint appeal filed by Storer Broadcasting, owner of Fort Lauderdale–licensed WGBS-TV (channel 23) and Gerico Investment, owners of ABC affiliate WITV (channel 17).: I assume you meant to put a comma after (channel 23)? IAWW (talk) 08:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Ooops, I did. Fixed. Y

Groundbreaking for the new combined radio-television studios at the WIOD transmitter site took place on March 20, 1956, which Trammell promised would be ready for operation by June.: This sentence has a dangling modifier. Structurally, it reads as the groundbreaking being ready for operation by June. I suggest splitting into two sentences. IAWW (talk) 08:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rephrased to Groundbreaking for the new combined radio-television studios at the WIOD transmitter site took place on March 20, 1956; Trammell promised the facility would be completed by June. Y

Herald radio critic Jack Anderson: A critic from Herald radio, or a critic criticizing Herald radio? Also, I wasn't aware the Herald had a radio station? IAWW (talk) 08:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Anderson was a critic for both Miami radio and television that wrote for the Herald. I rephrased this to Writing for the Herald, Jack Anderson described... Y

Groundbreaking for the new combined radio-television studios at the WIOD transmitter site: Wasn't WIOD renamed WCKR? IAWW (talk) 08:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: It was. Fixed :) Y

WCKT and WCKR carried the dedication live: I suggest changing "carried" to "broadcasted" for a little less jargon. IAWW (talk) 08:59, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: I opted for "broadcast" in that tense if that works. Y

Signing on under Biscayne

WCKT's newscasts were handled by Gordon Shaw in mornings, news director Charles Harrison in early evenings, and Phil Kelleher in late evenings; the station also boasted "a completely equipped" newsroom located adjacent to the main studio: I'm not sure a semi-colon is the best structure for the sentence. The clause after the semi-colon is not really closely related to the clause before the semi-colon. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Fixed, broken up into two sentences. Y

WCKT's debut program was a news bulletin anchored by Shaw, with Jack Anderson retrospectively noting the excess goodwill at startup that Shaw smiled throughout the course of the bulletin, which included a train derailment report:

• "with" is a weird way to join the first clause to the first modifier. It begins reading as though Jack Anderson was involved in the process somehow.
• "that" is a misplaced modifier.
• This sentence needs to be reworded/structured for clarity. Consider splitting it up to make it more digestible. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rewritten to WCKT's debut program was a news bulletin anchored by Shaw. Jack Anderson later wrote in his Herald column how Shaw continued to smile throughout the bulletin, which included a story on a train derailment.

I think "that" should replace "how" for this to be fully correct. Everything else is much clearer though. IAWW (talk) 23:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. :) Y

I suggest changing "PTA meetings" to a less technical term, or giving a brief explanation of what they are. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: PTA meeting does redirect to Parent–teacher association, I opted to hotlink it at this time if that is sufficient enough?

Yes I think that's fine. Y

Within the station's first year, WCKT succeeded in achieving ratings parity with the competition, while WGBS-TV shut down on April 13, 1957.: "while" is a weird conjunction to use here. WCKT's success in the first year is a general event, but WGBS-TV's shutting down is at a very specific time. So joining them together with "while" is a bit inaccurate. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Fixed, see below. :) Y

commanded a 23.8 share at 6:30 p.m;: Rather technical, the words "commanded" and "share" could be changed to make this understandable to a broader audience. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rephrased to say Renick held a 23.8 share. Also added a footnote to better explain what a "share" is, as it has a historical definition and is distinct from a "rating".

Very nice Y

WCKT had a substantial scoop: Not sure if "substantial scoop" is editorializing or a TV term I am unfamiliar with or both. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: I opted to remove it, the sentence reads fine without that qualifier. Y

The Washington Court of Appeals temporarily set aside the grant of channel 7 to Biscayne on March 14, 1957, citing the FCC's failure to question any possible adverse effect from Trammell's past ties with NBC that could benefit the network, and considered him "the key figure" and "vital 'middle man'" in Biscayne's operations: Tagging on the two long verb phrases on the end makes this hard to follow. I suggest splitting "and considered him..." into a separate sentence. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Broken up into two sentences. Y

What does a "demerit" mean in this context? IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: It was a very light admonishment by the commission (as it was made public) and little more. Biscayne was not fined, which is called a "forfeiture" in FCC terminology, and their license permit was reaffirmed. Y

The FCC gave Biscayne a demerit for "possible conflict of interest" with regards to Trammell, but still considered the company to be the "best qualified applicant" for the license: Cut comma before but, as the conjunction joins two independent clauses IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

FCC ethics violations and ramifications

Without fanfare, the: Slightly editorialized opinion. I think it should be cut. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Removed. Y

During a cross-examination of FCC chairman John C. Doerfer on February 5, 1958, information was revealed that Civil Aeronautics Board chairman James R. Durfee had a 1956 golf trip paid in full by an undisclosed airline amid accusations of "personal misconduct" among four of the seven active FCC commissioners: It took me a full minute to process this sentence.

• Accusations from whom?
• Is "amid accusations of "personal misconduct" among four of the seven active FCC commissioners" referring to the time of the 1956 golf trip, or during the cross-examination?
• Make it clear which law this breaks
• I think this sentence needs to be broken down, even if only to make it more understandable to people like me with bad reading comprehension! IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: I rewrote this as FCC chairman John C. Doerfer disclosed during a cross-examination on February 5, 1958, that a 1956 golf trip taken by Civil Aeronautics Board chairman James R. Durfee was paid in full by an undisclosed airline. Doerfer's testimony came as four of the seven commissioners were accused of misconduct and favoritism. Hopefully this is easier to understand?

Yes I think this is much better and addresses all my concerns. Y

"fixer", according to Schwartz: Quote requires an inline citation IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

Richard Mack was paid several thousand dollars by Thurman A. Whiteside: Was this the "unnamed commissioner engaged in bribery regarding an unspecified license application dispute"? IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Correct. Mack was not identified in the initial testimony but was when the initial news stories (including the citation at the end of the sentence) were published. Reworded to address this.

Looks good Y

Schwartz testified under oath that commissioner Richard Mack was paid several thousand dollars by Thurman A. Whiteside: Do we know what for? IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Whiteside, who was a lawyer for National Airlines, paid Mack to overrule a recommendation given to the FCC for Katzentine for the channel 10 license and rule in favor of the airline, thus the "fixer" description. Rewritten to Schwartz testified under oath that Mack was paid several thousand dollars by Thurman A. Whiteside, a lawyer National Airlines retained as a "fixer", according to Schwartz; newspaper columnist Drew Pearson reported Whiteside's payment, made before Mack became a commissioner, enabled him to overrule a recommendation given to the FCC to WKAT owner A. Frank Katzentine for the channel 10 license and rule in favor of National Airlines instead. Mack previously endorsed Katzentine for the channel 10 license in letters written to the FCC in 1951, while a Florida state employee.

This is much better, but it still gets very hard to read around "overrule a recommendation given to the FCC to WKAT owner A. Frank Katzentine for the channel 10 license". I suggest breaking it down a bit. IAWW (talk) 23:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Does this work better? Newspaper columnist Drew Pearson reported Whiteside's payment, made before Mack became a commissioner, enabled him to rule in favor of the airline for the channel 10 license. This overruled a prior recommendation given by an independent examiner to the FCC that said the channel 10 license should be granted to WKAT owner A. Frank Katzentine.

Yes, much better! Y

In reply, Trammell called the Mack connection "a complete surprise" and claimed he was solicited by an unrelated agent that first contacted him in 1954: Solicited to do what? Also, what does Trammell have to do with the situation? IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Trammell was advised to pursue insurance with that agency per Florida law that required local insurers. Rewrote this to Trammell called the Mack connection "a complete surprise", claimed Whiteside had been opposed to Biscayne's channel 7 license bid, and said Biscayne was insured by Stembler-Shelden due to Florida law requiring the company to have a locally-based insurer.

Nice Y

Hearings and revocation

The FCC decided to reopen the process for the channel 7 license on April 3, 1959, and hold hearings on conflict of interests among the commissioners and do so outside of Washington, D.C., conducting them in Philadelphia ", conducting them in Philadelphia" is a dangling modifier here, as there is no clear subject to attach it to. It also messes up the parallel structure of the sentence. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rephrased to The FCC decided to reopen the process for the channel 7 license on April 3, 1959, with hearings in Philadelphia on conflict of interests among the commissioners.

Much better Y

for investigative purposes only: As oppose to what? IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Opted to rewrite this as Former Pennsylvania Supreme Court justice Horace Stern presided as FCC examiner and scheduled hearings to begin on June 13, 1960. Stern was appointed to examine potential misconduct by the FCC surrounding all disputed or contested licenses, and said the investigation was "... a matter of public justice". Also of note (and Sammi Brie can attest to this), WCKT and WPST were not the only television stations to be investigated; dozens of stations were implicated for improper behavior by the FCC, and several lost their licenses. WHDH-TV (channel 5) in Boston was the largest station to be shut down.

Much clearer Y

while Sunbeam requested a specific finding declaring they were "completely innocent" while the other applicants disqualified themselves: Suggest replacing the second "while" with "and" IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

I don't think it's ever mentioned that WPST-TV is in Miami too. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Good catch! I rewrote the first mention of WPST-TV as Within the station's first year, WCKT succeeded in achieving ratings parity against WTVJ and WPST-TV: WPST's launch was expedited when WGBS-TV shut down on April 13, 1957, and Storer sold off the station's assets to National Airlines, winner of the Miami channel 10 permit.

I think explicitly mention that National Airlines ran the station under the name WPST with the assets they bought. The way it's phrased is a bit too implicit, so it was hard to tell if I was interpreting it correctly. IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Does ...and Storer sold off the station's assets to WPST owner National Airlines after they won the Miami channel 10 permit work better in that regard?

Yup, looks good. Y

Ownership of the island housing both WCKT and WCKR was partitioned between the two: This part of the sentence doesn't make sense. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Redid the phrasing to Ownership of the island was partitioned between WCKT and WCKR, Y

Operating under the Ansin family

This is the first of a few editorialized titles, including:

• Hard-hitting investigative news
• Spurned by CBS
• Forced into independence
• Defying conventional wisdom
• "If it bleeds, it leads"
• Maturing in a competitive market

I think these need to be de-editorialized? IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: No worries. Some of these sections have had their titles changed already. Will look at the others.

The only one that is not clearly editorialized is "maturing in a competitive market", but I think the problem is the characterization of the market as "competitive" stated as a fact. Strictly speaking, I think that characterization is an opinion and is also quite vague. IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Totally fair. I did change over the "If it bleeds, it leads" title (even though it was a heavily-attributed quote) and hopefully the replacement for that is more neutral-ish? The other two titles need more additional thought on my end.

Yes, I think your changes so far have all been good. IAWW (talk) 23:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Retitled "defying conventional wisdom" to "Ratings ramifications" Y

🦝: Also opted to retitle "Maturing in a competitive market" to "Adjustments, Deco Drive and continuity" Y

Edmund's want to work with his father was his lead reason for joining Sunbeam after briefly considering working on Wall Street and encompassed additional ventures: I suggest making it a bit clearer that "and encompassed additional ventures" is referring to Edmund's want to work with his father. Grammatically this is fine, but the sentence length, the abstract subject (Edmund's want to work with his father) and the complex wording (and encompassed additional ventures) make it hard to follow for me. This is how I feel about a lot of the sentences in this article actually, I'm glad I was able to articulate this to my satisfaction. Most of the examples in this article are not severe enough to be relevant to the GA criteria though, and the issue is likely compounded by my poor reading skills compared to most writers and academics. For future reference, when I say I find it hard to follow, I mean some combination of the above points I made about this sentence. Sorry for the essay, but hopefully it will help me communicate better through the rest of the points. IAWW (talk) 20:32, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Removed the "and encompassed" phrase entirely. Rewritten to Edmund's want to work with his father was his lead reason for joining Sunbeam after briefly considering working on Wall Street. Edmund was the executive vice president for a life insurance company Sidney co-founded in 1966 which bore the Sunbeam name; this company was sold off in 1969.

Nice Y

The FCC's broadcast bureau disagreed with Donahue's findings, specifically due to Sunbeam getting credit for operating the station under pressure of the interim authority, with an FCC attorney considering the bidding process to be "very close" but Sunbeam still having an edge: Similar, hard to follow. I think it would do better split up. IAWW (talk) 20:32, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rewritten to The FCC's broadcast bureau disagreed with Donahue's findings, and how Sunbeam was given credit for operating the station under pressure of the interim authority. An an FCC attorney considered the bidding process to be "very close" but Sunbeam still held an edge.

This is good. Y

Suggest linking "U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington" IAWW (talk) 20:32, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. :) Y

Investigative journalism

in an interview WCKT broadcast despite threats from Taylor: "despite threats from Taylor" is too vague to mean anything. When, how severe and how official? IAWW (talk) 20:52, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: I removed that phrase. Rewritten/shortened to Carnival operator Newell Taylor sued WCKT and Florida governor W. Haydon Burns after Burns called Taylor "one of the biggest gamblers in South Florida" in an interview broadcast over the station.

Good Y

Suggest linking "Broward County" IAWW (talk) 20:52, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

Bob Clayton

Clayton was reassigned to host Movie 7: Reassigned from the talk show or the refugee interviews?

🦝: Wrong word choice. He was basically a utility player that did multiple jobs around the station and was selected for the movie show. Rephrased to say By May 1957, Clayton began hosting Movie 7... Y

Was there any sources on the reception to the talk show and refugee interviews? IAWW (talk) 23:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: I'm a bit confused by the question? Are you asking about ratings or critical reception to either program?

Yes, sorry for the lack of clarity. IAWW (talk) 19:20, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

WCKT soon added the Sunday night MGM Theater: A short description of what this program was would be appropriate

🦝: Reworded to Clayton also hosted the Sunday night movie MGM Theater sponsored by a local mattress company..

Ah, I was confused what "MGM" meant when I first read this. I think this acronym should be defined when the full name Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer is mentioned. IAWW (talk) 23:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Defined in parenthesis with the existing hotlink to the movie studio. ... Movie 7, a daily showcase of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (MGM) films ... Y

Clayton's star was on the rise: Bit informal and vague

🦝: Reworked to Clayton played a bell captain in the 1960 Jerry Lewis movie The Bellboy, filmed at the Fountainbleu Hotel in Miami Beach; Y

Lewis tabbed Clayton later in the year for the unsold television pilot Permanent Waves: I don't know what "tabbed" means?

🦝: The more appropriate term is "cast" and to hopefully avoid confusion, I hotlinked the word with Casting (performing arts). Y

After a female viewer: Does the gender matter here?

🦝: Not necessarily. Reworded to After a viewer referred Clayton to their daughter Y

It was originally assumed that Clayton would leave the market: Be specific about what market.

🦝: Rephrased to It was originally assumed that Clayton would leave Miami for New York, but Clayton arranged to commute between both cites by airplane every two weeks Y

which was reformatted to be like Today: How was "Today" formatted? This is the first time it is mentioned.

🦝: Hotlinked and qualified as NBC's Today Y

, when 1963 began: This is weird phrasing, which combined with placing it after the show name makes it sound as if it is part of the show name.

🦝: Redone to Clayton moved back to Miami in 1963 Y

the two had been friends dating back to when Tonight Starring Jack Paar, which Downs announced, originated from Miami Beach: What was Clayton's relation to the show?

🦝: The Tonight Show (including when Jack Paar hosted it) is an NBC program that WCKT carried. Qualified as "NBC's Tonight Starring Jack Paar". Y

Charlie Baxter and "Toby the Robot"

Serving as a booth announcer and doing fill-in work for vacationing staffers Baxter was asked by management to create a horror host character but without any direction, merely saying, "We need a monster. You're it.": I think you meant to add a comma after staffers? Also, "merely saying" modifies Baxter grammatically but logically refers to the director(s), so this is a dangling modifier. IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rewritten to Serving as a booth announcer and doing fill-in work for vacationing staffers, management asked him to create a horror host character but without any direction, saying, "We need a monster. You're it."

Aha unfortunately we now have a dangling modifier at the beginning of the sentence. "Serving as a booth announcer..." grammatically refers to "management" when it is meant to refer to Baxter. IAWW (talk) 23:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Does this sound better? Baxter was initially a booth announcer and filled in for vacationing staff. Management asked Baxter to create a horror host character but did not offer any direction, saying, "We need a monster. You're it." Baxter developed "M. T. Graves" for the Sunday afternoon horror movie showcase titled The Dungeon...

Yes, nice Y

Baxter added a Saturday morning science fiction film show as "M. T. Space": I think "as" should be replaced with "called" to make it clearer. IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Fixed, see below. Y

Baxter added a Saturday morning science fiction film show as "M. T. Space" (Graves's astronaut brother orbiting "the seventh moon of Jupiter") and a daily children's show as uninhibited child "Charlie Baxter" but was still easily recognizable to younger fans of M. T. Graves even without the makeup: I'm unsure what you are trying to say here. Surely the station owners added the shows, not Baxter. "film show as" doesn't make it clear that the show was called "M. T. Space". The modifier "but was still easily recognizable..." refers to Baxter out of character. Baxter is "uninhibited" from what? IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: I decided to totally redo this to n addition to Graves, Baxter portrayed "M. T. Space" (Graves's astronaut brother who orbited "the seventh moon of Jupiter") for a Saturday morning science fiction film show, and "Charlie Baxter" (in-character as a young child) for a daily children's show. Baxter was still easily recognizable to younger fans as M. T. Graves even without wearing the makeup. If you think it needs more tweaking, let me know.

Looks good Y

(with The Marvel Super Heroes between in-studio wraparound segments): I don't understand how this connects with the sentence. IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rephrased as In addition to "Count Down", Folds played "Buffo the Clown" on the Sunday morning Seven's Circus and "Toby the Robot" for the Saturday morning Superheroes, the latter being in-studio wraparound segments for The Marvel Super Heroes. I might tweak it further.

Looks good Y

Suggest linking "intoned" IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. :) Y

at one point airing the Jungle Jim serial during its final year: Grammatically this is referring to Baxter (dangling modifier). IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rewritten to The Dungeon ended production on September 7, 1967, after Baxter claimed the station ran out of horror movies to show; during the show's final year, the Jungle Jim serial was featured. Y

wraparounds for reruns of Batman hosted by "Charles Baxter, Esquire": This reads as though the "Batman" series is hosted by Baxter. IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rewritten to Superheroes was succeeded by Batman-Batkids: Batman reruns with local segments hosted by "Charles Baxter, Esquire"; these segments reprised several Dungeon characters, with Folds as Baxter's valet "The Count". Y

WCKT and the Herald partnered for Charlie Reads The Comics, a Sunday morning show: Presumably replacing Seven's Circus? IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: I hesitated saying that as there is a gap of about 18 months from when Seven's Circus ended and Charlie Reads the Comics started.

Fair Y

with Baxter reading the newspaper's Sunday comic strips to a studio audience of children, and Folds as Toby: Cut the comma before "and", as both are included in the clause starting with "with". IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. :) Y

Stage actor Wayne Chandler was hired as Baxter's replacement for Charlie Reads The Comics, re-titled Sunday Funnies: Dangling modifier: "re-titled..." grammatically modifies "Wayne Chandler" but is clearly referring to "Charlie Reads The Comics". To fix this, add "[which was] re-titled" to make the clause relative. This means it will refer to the closest noun, which is "Charlie Reads The Comics". IAWW (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. :) Y

Struggles alongside NBC

By the end of 1977, it was challenging WCKT for second place: Second place in what? Also, who was in first place? IAWW (talk) 20:45, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Fixed to By the end of 1977, WPLG challenged WCKT for second place in local news ratings, with WTVJ remaining the market leader; WPLG overtook WCKT for second in 1979.

Very clear Y

it overtook channel 7 in 1979: I think just call it WCKT here, as that has been the name used in all the text so far when referring to WCKT. IAWW (talk) 20:45, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. :) Y

WCKT preempted network fare: I don't know what this means, could it be reworded for less technicality? IAWW (talk) 20:45, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rewritten to Consequently, by 1978, WCKT declined to air specific network shows more often than WTVJ or WPLG did with their respective networks Y

In late 1977, WCKT substituted The Devil's Brigade and Anchors Aweigh in place of Black Sheep Squadron, briefly revived from cancellation by star Raymond Burr, causing Burr to personally call WCKT operations manager Allen Sternberg and NBC executives and protest the move on The Tonight Show; Sternberg cited the show's Wednesday night slot as consistently one of the network's weakest-performing timeslots: Do you mean Robert Conrad, not Raymond Burr? I see no mention of Burr in the citation. This is also hard to follow, I suggest breaking this up a bit. IAWW (talk) 20:45, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Oops. It was Conrad, not Burr. Redone to In late 1977, WCKT substituted The Devil's Brigade and Anchors Aweigh in place of Black Sheep Squadron. This led Robert Conrad—the star of Black Sheep—to personally contact WCKT operations manager Allen Sternberg along with NBC executives, and protested the move on The Tonight Show.

"and protested" is simple past tense, while everything before it in the sentence is in the infinitive (to [verb]). It doesn't match and needs to be slightly reworded so the tenses match. IAWW (talk) 23:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Fixed to "protest". Y

Revamping under Leider

Leider's promotion came after the May 1979 sweeps period showed The Fariss-Hicks Report: What did Leider have to do with this program? IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rephrased to The timing of Leider's promotion coincided with the May 1979 sweeps period showing The Fariss-Hicks Report at 6 p.m. tied for third place alongside Star Trek reruns on WCIX and an overall decline in the station's ratings.

Suggest adding "third place [in the local ratings]" for clarity. I still don't understand why the Fariss-Hicks Report is relevant to Leider's promotion? Did he direct it or something? IAWW (talk) 23:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Leider was given total oversight of the station and hired Strul's replacement. Honestly, this needed a total redo to News director Gene Strul resigned after the May 1979 sweeps period showed The Fariss-Hicks Report at 6 p.m. tied for third place in local ratings alongside Star Trek reruns on WCIX, along with an overall decline in the station's ratings. While credited for channel 7 having won over 200 regional and national journalism awards, Strul was also criticized for not adding flair to the newscasts or allowing them to be more feature-driven. Granted complete control over the station's management, Leider was tasked with hiring Strul's replacement, telling the Fort Lauderdale News he sought someone whose views were "in harmony with mine".

Nice and clear Y

, with the footage admissible in court: Grammatically modifies "postman", which is clearly incorrect. It's unclear what subject in the main clause this modifier is meant to modify. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Redid this for clarity to WCKT also made headlines by assisting Miami Beach police with an undercover surveillance team that arrested a postman for selling quaaludes; footage taken by WCKT of the arrest was used as admissible evidence in court. WCIX and WPLG management criticized WCKT's participation for going against journalism ethics and compromising the station's ability to cover police-related stories objectively.

Looks good Y

, with NewsCenter 7 remaining stuck in third place: Almost identical issue to the previous point IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Redid to Despite the changes, NewsCenter 7 remained in third place in evening ratings; Hanover left WCKT in May 1982 to marry Justice Department attorney Rudy Giuliani. (I realized the sentence also implied that was Hanover who was going to work for the Justice Department, which was not the case.) Y

Arbitron and Nielsen ratings: Could these be linked? IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Linked them both to Nielsen Media Research as both research firms, which were originally separate, merged into each other and carry the Nielsen name. (Usually I don't try to hotlink to the same thing twice, as Arbitron was linked earlier in the article, but this is a good exception to that rule.) Y

Number-centric call letters

The station was also being placed on different channel positions over area cable systems, in some cases on channels "O" and "D", and felt the WSVN name helped provide a competitive advantage: Could you explain why the channel mattered, and how changing then name gave a competitive advantage? IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Reworded to The station was also being placed on different channel positions over area cable systems, in some cases on channels "O" and "D" instead of "7". Leider regarded the "WSVN" name as easier to viewers to remember, thus providing a competitive advantage.

Much better Y

Sunbeam invested a total of $150,000 into this change, including $50,000 for the call letter purchase and FCC paperwork and $100,000 for an extensive marketing campaign: I suggest adding a comma before the final "and" for clarity IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

Suggest linking "cross promotion" IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

with mentions on both Today and The Tonight Show, with Grant Tinker and Steve Sohmer congratulating Leider for the move: Did the publicly congratulate him on the show? If so, that should be more clear. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Redone to Network executives Grant Tinker and Steve Sohmer both sent congratulatory letters to Leider on the name change, and Sohmer began to advise NBC affiliates on how to stress their respective call letters for future promotions.

Nice Y

News director David Choate admitted: I don't think "admitted" is very neutral here. It suggests he tried to hide it before which isn't the case? IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Corrected. Y

we're not the favorite station for news in Miami... we keep battling Channel 4 for second place: I think it would be beneficial to add in brackets what station Channel 4 was operated by. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Fixed to we keep battling [WTVJ] for second place Y

Rondinaro's coverage of the 1984 Democratic National Convention garnered praise, having done so knowing his contract was not renewed: Slightly inaccurate. "having done so knowing his contract was not renewed" grammatically modifies Rondinaro's coverage, not Rondinaro himself. Therefore this is a dangling modifier. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rephrased to Rondinaro's coverage of the 1984 Democratic National Convention, praised by local media, occurred after his departure was announced.

Looks good Y

with a $2 million investment: Could you add what this is equivalent to nowadays? IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. :) Y

What is an "influence peddler"? IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Hotlinked to influence peddling, which I did not realize existed as an article. Y

Sanchez left the market: Be specific about what market IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Fixed. Y

Veteran weatherman Wayne Chandler's career ended abruptly on December 7, 1984, after suffering a severe head injury when another driver collided into his 1970 Volkswagen Beetle: Similar to the above points, the modifier "after suffering..." grammatically refers to Chandler's career, not Chandler himself. Also, I think the year and car model is excessive detail. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Trimmed to Veteran weatherman Wayne Chandler suffered a severe head injury in a vehicular collision on December 7, 1984. Y

Folds's last day playing the robot was an emotional one, saying, "when I put on that costume, I became Toby.": A similar issue. The subject is Folds's last day, but the modifier is clearly intended to modify Folds himself. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Reworked to Folds later said of his last day playing the robot, "when I put on that costume, I became Toby."

Nice, it's also less editorialized. Y

Folds took over as host of Sunday Funnies: As himself, or playing Toby the robot? IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: As himself. Fixed. Y

The Miami network affiliation dispute

WSVN became the central figure in a complicated dispute between Sunbeam, NBC and CBS that lasted nearly two years: Can you provide a source for this? Otherwise I believe it is WP:SYNTH IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Applied citations for that intro sentence. Y

It would be nice if there were some modern day conversions for some of the monetary amounts. IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Applying format price and inflation/year as needed. If I missed anything, let me know. :)

Looks good Y

The Lorimar deal collapsed after CBS inquired with Taft Broadcasting about purchasing WCIX for as much as $125 million: It's not clear whether CBS and Taft Broadcasting jointly inquired to Lorimar, or if CBS inquired to Taft. I think "as much as" is editorialising. Also, and probably most importantly, why does it matter so much to KKR and Lorimar what CBS does? IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rewritten to The Lorimar deal collapsed after CBS inquired with Taft Broadcasting about purchasing WCIX, an independent affiliated with Fox, for approximately $125 million. Such a deal would have moved all CBS programming from WTVJ to WCIX, and in turn, reduce the value of WTVJ by hundreds of millions of dollars. Also broke up the paragraph for readability.

So so much better, I would never have figured this out, but it's perfectly clear now. I think "reduce" needs to be changed to "would have reduced" in the last sentence though, to match the tense with the rest of the sentence. IAWW (talk) 23:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Fixed tense to "reduced" as "would have" is already in use earlier in the sentence.

Nice Y

CBS's subsequent $170 million offer for WTVJ was deemed unacceptable by KKR:

• Why? Too little money?
• Did CBS offer to KKR for WTVJ directly, or did they offer to Lorimar presuming they would be the owners after the Lorimar deal went through? IAWW (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Too little money. Lorimar offered to KKR $400 million for the station as part of a larger purchase, and CBS offered to KKR $170 million for the station itself. Rephrased to address that CBS offered the money to the merchant banker, and the banker deemed it unacceptable.

Looks good Y

The FCC directed KKR to divest either Storer's cable systems in Miami and Wometco's cable systems in Atlanta—or WTVJ and Storer's WAGA-TV—within 18 months to satisfy then-existing cross-ownership rules: Did you mean to have an "or" instead of an "and" between Miami and Wometco? Or am I reading this completely wrong? IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: KKR either had to sell the cable systems in both markets held by those two companies, or they had to sell those two stations. The FCC now considered both companies as being controlled by the same owner. Y

under the belief a competing network would not be intimidated by a CBS disaffiliation threat: Using less general terms would make this a lot clearer. E.g. "under the belief that NBC would not be concerned if CBS disaffiliated from WTVJ after they bought it." IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: How about ...under the belief neither ABC or NBC would be intimidated by a threat from CBS to disaffiliate WTVJ?

Feels a bit editorialized but good for GA Y

telling network executives: NBC network executives? IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Correct. Denoted as ... telling NBC executives who visited the station to match the tense. Y

The same executives described Ansin cursing at them and pointed at a satellite dish used to receive NBC programming: Misplaced modifier: "and pointed at a satellite dish" grammatically refers to the executives. IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rewritten to Ansin cursed at the executives, pointed at a satellite dish used to receive NBC programming, and asked them, "why don't you take it home on the airplane?"

Very clear Y

Could you make it clearer why the deal negatively affected WSVN? IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Moved the sentence about NBC's purchase of WTVJ taking place 15 days after the network renewed their contract with WSVN to after mentioning the sale announcement if that helps. Also added context that NBC had become the top-rated network and previously initiated affiliation switches elsewhere across the country, so it did hurt WSVN significantly. (Both citations added for that sentence are from Electronic Media in archive.org; @Sammi Brie: I'm not sure if it's in ProQuest?)

Happy with this Y IAWW (talk) 10:58, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

@Nathan Obral Only later years of EM/TVWeek are available in ProQuest (2001 on). Sammi Brie (she/her · t · c) 21:01, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

CBS affiliation would go to in the market: A bit abstract to be easily understood IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rewritten to WSVN's NBC contract ran until January 1989 while WTVJ's CBS contract ran through April 1988. Industry speculation centered over what station in Miami would pick up CBS programming, or if NBC would be contractually obligated to operate WTVJ as a CBS affiliate until their WSVN contract expired.

Nice and clear Y

Can "Florida's congressional delegation" be linked? IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

Because WTVJ's CBS affiliation was set to end in April 1988, a temporary arrangement was reached that had the contract extended on a two-week basis for as long as was deemed necessary: Do we know why they did this instead of just having two NBC stations in the area? IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Redone to NBC and CBS both agreed to extend WTVJ's CBS affiliation contract on a two-week basis after it expired in April 1988, allowing CBS to move their programming off WTVJ at any given date. Basically, both NBC and CBS acted under the premise WSVN would opt to end their deal with NBC early, thus allowing NBC programming to move to WTVJ ahead of schedule. WSVN's NBC contract (as most contracts of this type are) was market-exclusive, so there couldn't be two stations that ran the same network programming.

Nice, thanks for explaining Y

preempting CBS primetime programming liberally: What does this mean? IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Basically, refusing to carry significant portions of CBS's primetime schedule (redone with this phrase). Network affiliates are given leeway to decline to carry shows or primetime programming, usually a given percentage, but WTVJ went over the usual boundaries of a typical network affiliate. It's expounded on more in the affiliate switch article and in WTVJ's article.

That's much easier to understand Y

Changes in the news

Lewis's replacement, Jim Berry, also joined WSVN under this assumption: "this assumption" refers to an assumption stated a long time ago so should be defined. IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Redone to Lewis's replacement, Jim Berry, joined WSVN under the assumption it would become a CBS affiliate, saying a network affiliation is "a sign of privilege, it's like a badge." Y

while Fitz was regarded in market research as being highly recognizable, some: Why is this relevant to the information around it? Also, the "while... some" structure suggests a contrast which isn't apparent. IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Opted to remove that part as it felt extemporaneous. Y

that factored into personnel decisions: Who's personal decisions? I don't think I am understanding this sentence properly. IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Redone to Reports of on- and off-air tension between Ford and co-anchor Sally Fitz was seen as the determining factor for the move, but Fitz was also in a personal relationship with Ed Ansin, which Ansin previously admitted to. Steve Sonsky of the Herald suggested Fitz's relationship with Ansin factored into WSVN's personnel decisions, which station officials denied.

Ah I misread "personnel" as "personal", but this is also much clearer. Y

CBS purchases WCIX

Conventional wisdom suggested from the beginning: Could you make this a bit more precise and less editorialized. E.g. "Most industry professionals in the market agreed..." IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Does Most industry analysts agreed following the WTVJ-NBC purchase... work?

Yes, but the citation also doesn't really support it. It didn't really support the previous statement either. IAWW (talk) 10:58, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Oops, for some reason I thought I handled this one already. Redone to After NBC purchased WTVJ, the Herald's Steve Sonsky wrote "the simplest thing that could happen" was for CBS to affiliate with WSVN in a two-station exchange. By June 1988, Sonsky said a WSVN-CBS affiliation was still possible, "... unless 7 wants to become an independent station and suffer an enormous drop in value". which better supports both citations. Nathan Obral • he/him/🦝 • t • c • 19:57, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Fantastic Y IAWW (talk) 22:12, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

WSVN general manager Bob Leider countered such distress was never mentioned by CBS during negotiations: I think "countered, saying that" is more correct than just "countered" here. IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Fixed. Y

An additional letter of protest Ansin sent to NBC charged that WTVJ was supplying stories to NBC News with their Miami news bureau dealing exclusively with WTVJ: Their Miami news bureau grammatically attaches to WTVJ, making it a misplaced modifier. This sentence is also a bit unclear, I'm struggling to understand why WTVJ supplying stories to NBC News is a problem? IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Redone for clarity to Ansin sent an additional letter of protest to NBC that claimed WTVJ supplied stories to NBC News through the network's Miami news bureau, which Ansin alleged violated NBC's existing WSVN contract. (Added a citation I previously forgot to copy over from the 1989 South Florida television switch article.)

Nice Y

Ansin insisted the lawsuit would not hurt WSVN's chances regarding a network contract but talks between him and CBS never resumed: CINS comma before but. Also, this sentence only uses commas and em-dashes to denote the parentheticals. It has no commas or punctuation to break it up, which makes it hard to read. IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Added comma, swapped out the em-dashes for parentheticals. Y

Several Wall Street analysts estimated WSVN's market value dropped by as much as $200 million: How much was this as a percentage of its total valuation at the time? IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: The source didn't give a percentage, and usually that information isn't exactly free to the public? That being said, there might be a trade magazine that could have listed the market value? (@Sammi Brie: pinging)

No worries, this is a very minor point anyways I should have put it in other suggestions beyond GA criteria. Y IAWW (talk) 19:20, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Concurrent with CBS's purchase of WCIX, the network: Which network? I can't understand the rest of the sentence because of this. IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rephrased for some clarity to CBS simultaneously announced a new affiliation agreement was reached with West Palm Beach's ABC affiliate WPEC[1] that addressed WCIX's technical disadvantages for over-the-air television viewers in the Miami market. The WPEC-CBS deal pulled a second media market into the affiliation switches that now involved, in both Miami and West Palm Beach, six stations and three million television viewers. Y

Becoming an independent

Suggest linking "syndicated programming"

🦝: Done. :) Y

Ansin retrospectively said he considered WSVN to be an appendage of NBC instead of just a network affiliate, resulting in the station largely operating on autopilot: Could you be more precise here? How did being an "appendage" of NBC allow them to operate on autopilot? IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: By "autopilot", it meant they did not put much effort into programming the station, and Ansin assumed they would continue to remain a Big Three affiliate, no matter what. Actually quoting him in this context is IMO more effective; redone to Ansin later described WSVN as a station that had little to no effort put into it because of their prior NBC association, saying, "[w]e were very much the traditional network affiliate... we considered ourselves an appendage of the network".

Yes I agree it is better in Ansin's words Y

in one instance, a promo for their forthcoming 10 p.m. news ran prior to the start of an episode of L.A. Law, which aired at 10 p.m. on Thursday nights: I think this should be substituted for a broader statement about all the affiliation switches causing customer confusion. I was as confused as the customers trying to figure out what point this sentence was trying to make! IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Totally understandable. WSVN was trying to undercut NBC here, as their highly-rated primetime lineup was assuredly going to create a ratings halo effect for WTVJ at 11 p.m. (which did happen). How does Station promos began to reorient WSVN as "your news station" and extensively advertised their upcoming 10 p.m. newscast during NBC's own primetime schedule. sound?

Yes I like this a lot more. It's interesting too. Y

Defying conventional wisdom

Conventional wisdom suggested: Is it possible to be a bit more precise and less editorialized? I suggest a similar rephrasing that I suggested when this phrasing was last used. IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Redone to Prior to this, television stations without a network affiliation operated with a focus on sitcom reruns and movies, which did not rate as highly; the Herald's Steve Sonsky said, "... that's the way all indie stations operate... without the big original network programming as lead-ins and lead-outs, [they] just can't compete on the same level".

This looks good, just double check the sourcing and change to "generally operated" to ensure the reader doesn't interpret this as a blanket statement.

🦝: Got it, added "generally operated". Y

WSVN's ratings, as predicted, declined significantly in prime time and in other periods after losing NBC fare: Conciseness IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Removed. Y

the station was quickly seen as a major success story: By whom? IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Tom Jicha of the Sun-Sentinel. Added his name for attribution. Y

What is a "newsmagazine"? IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Hotlinked to news magazine. Y

following the failure of the newsmagazine Personalities: Was Cheatwood involved in this? IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: He was the executive producer. Reworded to state this and added a citation for support. Y

WSVN ranked first in mornings and late evenings and second in late afternoons, and was regarded as the highest-rated independent in the country: CINS IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Should be fixed. Y

Fast-paced tabloid journalism

Link "WABC-TV" IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

What are "the Continental Companies"? IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: They are a management company that operates hotels, primarily in the Miami region. See here and here. Y

which was a ratings failure: Editorialized. "which led to lower ratings" is more neutral. IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

Influence on the industry

WSVN's tabloid format proved heavily influential to the industry and was widely imitated throughout the country: This is quite an WP:EXCEPTIONAL claim, which should be backed up by multiple high quality sources. IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: I can back that up with a footnote like {{efn|As supported by these sources...<ref /><ref />(etc.)}} if that's what you were thinking of?

🦝: Update: I added a footnote with 14 refs inside and trimmed the extemporaneous "despite the criticisms".

Wow that's a lot of sourcing! I'm all for it. Y

The station and its unlikely success was even the subject of a Harvard Business School case study: Cut "even" (editorializing) IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Removed. Y

and even compared it to radio commentator Walter Winchell: Same here IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Removed.Y

and quickly promoted to sister KPLR-TV in St. Louis: What does "to sister" mean? IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Changed to "co-owned". Y

with a slickly produced tabloid style, again drawing comparisons to WSVN's early 90s ascendency: "slickly", "ascendancy" I think are editorializing IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Trimmed to ... relaunched the station's low-rated news operation with a fast-paced tabloid style that drew comparisons to WSVN. Y

WHDH emerged as a ratings contender in the market: "ratings contender" is a bit vague, they were presumably always a ratings contender. IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Rewritten to Long the third-rated news service in Boston, WHDH became the market leader by the end of the decade, prompting the more traditional WBZ-TV and WCVB-TV to incorporate tabloid elements into their newscasts. Y

Fox president Lucie Salhany hailed WSVN: Bit much IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Agreed. Redone to Fox president Lucie Salhany described WSVN as "the station of the future" and said it can be a model for newscasts on other Fox affiliates.

Very nice Y

Bob Papper estimated as many as 1,500 to 2,000: "as many as" implies it was a lot, which is an opinion. IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Swapped out to "between". Y

Maturing in a competitive market

Deco Drive was a ratings failure at WHDH: Editorialized, also how did it fare at WSVN? IAWW (talk) 18:21, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Among overall cleanup in that paragraph, redone to WHDH cancelled Deco after five months due to low ratings, but the program continues to air on WSVN into the present day. Deco initially met with moderate ratings in Miami but started to decline after several months, resulting in a format change that featured fast-paced reports mostly aggregated from WSVN's satellite feeds.

Looks good Y

WSVN continues to be a steady performer in a deeply competitive market: Opinion, attribute IAWW (talk) 18:21, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Redone to In local news ratings for the first half of 2022, WSVN placed second in nearly every timeslot among Miami's English-language stations.

Nice Y

Digital and leadership transitions

Suggest linking "digital signal" and "analogue signal" IAWW (talk) 18:21, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

three workers were killed after a crane collapsed off the side of WSVN's television tower: Do we know why the crane collapsed? IAWW (talk) 18:21, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Yes. A later revision to the story said it was a gin pole that collapsed, which took down the scaffolding the workers were on. Rewritten to address that.

Nice Y

Link "WFSL" IAWW (talk) 18:21, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

Future studios, reuniting the "Isle of Dreams" and linking with ABC

Suggest linking "Category 5 hurricane" IAWW (talk) 18:21, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Done. Y

Notable alumni

Looks good :)

Subchannels

Looks good :)

Sources clock

Reliability and health/formatting comments reference the citation numbers in this version.

Health/formatting (Criterion 2a) clock

[377] is missing a publisher or journal name. IAWW (talk) 20:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

• Fixed. Sammi Brie (she/her · t · c) 21:12, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Can a URL be found for [415]? IAWW (talk) 20:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

• This was taken from NewsBank, an offline database, although the online GenealogyBank also has this article. I've clipped it for insertion. Sammi Brie (she/her · t · c) 21:12, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

  Thanks IAWW (talk) 21:15, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Reliability (Criterion 2b) clock

There is a very large use of the Miami News and the Miami Herald, but this is justified since they appear to be the two main newspapers in Miami.

The sources almost entirely consist of local news, with a few journals and magazines sprinkled in. I have very few concerns:

The least reliable source in my opinion is the self published [309]. These self published sources can be used to verify less important claims, which I think covers the first two instances it is used. However, it is used to support "Ansin was also remembered for his philanthropy and strong work ethic, continuing to show up at his office every day right up to his death". I think this comes under an "unduly self-serving" claim (WP:SELFSOURCE), and is a claim about a person. Therefore, it cannot be used to support that content (WP:SELFSOURCE). IAWW (talk) 20:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Removed. Honestly it also looks as puffery, too.

[399] and [401] are also self-published, but the claims they support fall within the scope of WP:SELFSOURCE.

Spot check (Criteria 2b, 2c, 2d) clock

Spot check numbers based on this version.

[15]: Y

[46, 47]: Y

[50a]: Y

[90]: Y

[110]: Y

[159a]: Y

[182]: Almost, doesn't support her full name. IAWW (talk) 19:01, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Fixed to "Connie Hicks", which the citations (it and [196]) support. Y

[190]: The text gives the impression that the Black Sheep Squadron was deliberately substituted out, which is not what the source says. It should be reworded to better reflect the source. IAWW (talk) 19:01, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Tweaked to "aired" and denoted Black Sheep Squadron was an NBC show Y

[210]: Y

[252]: Y

[327a]: Almost, just doesn't support the logo specifically being changed IAWW (talk) 19:01, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Altered to "WSVN's on-air graphics". Y

[399]: Y

[423]: Y

Copyvio (Criterion 2d) clock

Earwig doesn't find anything in the online text sources. Will check other sources for any too-close paraphrasing on the spot check.

Scope (Criteria 3a, 3b) clock

This article is extremely long (>14000 words of prose), so it likely needs to be trimmed or spun off (WP:TOOBIG). However, this is only a guideline and not a strict rule. When reviewing I will pay particular attention to noting whether something is unnecessary detail or could be spun off. Otherwise, I am happy to keep the length as is. IAWW (talk) 20:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

This article appears to be extremely comprehensive, despite the fact that there is no dedicated book on the subject. It appears that newspapers are the best possible sources for most of it, which justifies there extensive use.

• Stepping in to comment as the only other GA-grade editor in this topic area (I provided research assistance to this article but did not write it and this completes a Good Topic that both of us have been involved with), this is very true. If there are books that cover our field, they are by-market, and they aren't always available. We are lucky to have good newspaper coverage, and speaking from a deep vein of experience, South Florida may be the single richest part of the country for newspaper availability and coverage. (WFOR-TV, WTVJ, and WPST-TV show this off.) The volume of news articles to go through from the Miami papers and the Sun-Sentinel can be staggering. Because of the format and tone it adopted after the 1989 switch, which spawned imitators honestly worldwide, WSVN has an outsized importance on the history of American television news and journalism more broadly, which is one reason it is of unusually heavy weight. Sammi Brie (she/her · t · c) 21:12, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you so much for these insights, they are very helpful. IAWW (talk) 21:19, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Given that you say it is of "outsized importance on the history of American television news and journalism more broadly", should the article's importance be increased from "low"? IAWW (talk) 20:47, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Most television station articles by default are categorized as "low importance". It should be reclassified here and that was more of an oversight than anything.

I'd also note that this would be Mid-importance for TVS had I noticed, since generally I tag Mid-importance for network affiliates in the top markets. Sammi Brie (she/her · t · c) 02:30, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

Can I guess that the good topic is "1989 South Florida television affiliation switch"? Having just reached this part of the article, I'm floored by the amount of work you two have done in this area. IAWW (talk) 11:40, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

Yes, that's correct. This is the last article needed to complete the GT. At this point we've rewritten about, I think, one in five articles on American TV stations. I could nearly double my GA count if GAN moved faster. Sammi Brie (she/her · t · c) 22:43, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

Yes, the backlog at GAN is the highest it has ever been right now, and isn't showing any signs of slowing down. It slows down the quality content flow significantly, but in my opinion the biggest problem is that GANs by new contributors often sit on the pile for months, and then the new contributors lose interest. It has been on my mind for a while now that something needs to be done about this, because the backlog drives are not reducing the queue enough. Maybe a task force could be assembled with the aim of reducing the backlog to 0, but that would take a massive effort from a lot of reviewers over a long time. Do you think this is possible? IAWW (talk) 07:15, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Stable (Criterion 5) Y

It has undergone a decent amount of edits, but they have almost all been relatively small maintenance edits and small improvements. IAWW (talk) 20:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

Media clock

Nice illustrations and quotes that really add to the article

Tags (Criterion 6a) clock

File:John S. Knight on Wall Street with newspaper.jpg: Date is wrong IAWW (talk) 12:24, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: It's likely the wrong date came from when his foundation uploaded it to Flickr (I did not upload it to Commons). John S. Knight died in 1981, so would it be acceptable to have "c. before 1981" as the date?

I believe so Y

File:Sunday Funnies.jpg: The date is listed as 31 March 1984, but the license requires it be published between 1930 and 1977. IAWW (talk) 12:24, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Removed from the article. Y

File:Svntape.JPG: Should be hosted on Commons IAWW (talk) 12:24, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Attempted to transfer it to Commons, it looks like it went through but I'm not sure if I missed a step?

It looks good Y

Nice work uploading your own File:WSVN outdoor marquee Dec 2011.jpg

Captions (Criterion 6b) clock

The "Isle of Dreams" in North Bay Village, home to channel 7's studios and WIOD's studios and transmitter towers.: This phrase does not have a verb, so it is not a full sentence and should not have a full stop.

🦝: Fixed. Y

Miami Dade Junior College president Dr. Peter Masiko Jr. (left) interviewing an unidentified guest for the WCKT show Junior College Review.: Same here

🦝: Fixed. Y

Bob Clayton with WPST-TV's Molly Turner and Cliff Ferre, promoting the ABC game show Make a Face.: And here, I'll fix any further instances of this myself. IAWW (talk) 12:24, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Also fixed. :) Y

Suggestions (not needed for GA promotion)

The publisher names and publication names are inconsistently linked. Most are not, but some are. IAWW (talk) 20:46, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Went through trying to fix the linking issue for more consistency.

Thanks for this Y

Generally I think this article could do with breaking down the sentences more. I'm finding it hard to tell if this is just my personal preference, or whether I'm not the only one who would find it easier to read. So, I'm leaving it as a suggestion for now and raising the more prominent examples in the prose review. IAWW (talk) 12:30, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Do you think breaking up the prose into smaller paragraphs would help, too?

Hard to say. I think the paragraphs are relatively good as they are. I haven't noticed any issues with the paragraph splits as I have with the long grammatically complex sentences. IAWW (talk) 23:31, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Some pie charts illustrating WSVN's market share compared to competitors at various points in it's history would be fantastic in this article. IAWW (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: It's possible. Would need to search for ratings data and that might be among the last things to add if that's okay.

Absolutely, it's not relevant to the GA criteria anyways.

I think there is some subtle editorializing in the way things are phrased around "Fast-paced tabloid journalism" and "Influence on the industry", but I think it would take some significant work to fix and is beyond the immediate concerns relevant to the GA criteria. IAWW (talk) 15:47, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

🦝: Just a quick update: I'm trying to plow through everything as best as I can, doing the simpler or less-complicated solutions first. Thank you for the comprehensiveness of this review. :) Nathan Obral • he/him/🦝 • t • c • 15:57, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you, there is no rush but it would be nice to get this review done! It felt like a ginormous effort to review, so I can't imagine how much it took to write! IAWW (talk) 19:44, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Just finished checking your improvements, there are just a few points left now. IAWW (talk) 13:48, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

@It is a wonderful world: There's only two minor points that I just need some clarification on, but everything else should be addressed. Let me know if there is anything I accidentally overlooked (it's kinda hard with so much in this review lol). Nathan Obral • he/him/🦝 • t • c • 18:14, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Nathan Obral, I think there is just one thing you missed relevant to the criteria. CTRL+F the page for "the citation also doesn't really support it", which will bring you straight to it. IAWW (talk) 19:21, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Found and hopefully fixed! Nathan Obral • he/him/🦝 • t • c • 20:04, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

@Nathan Obral Well done! It feels great to pass this. Have a wonderful weekend. IAWW (talk) 22:12, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.