Talk:Uvular lateral ejective affricate

Audio

@Oklopfer what's the problem with adding audio? BodhiHarp 19:24, 9 September 2025 (UTC)

As I said in my revert comment, Dowse has hundreds of recordings on his site that could start filling up every page currently missing audio, which would then become a problem of unreliable sourcing (too much reliance on a single source is not encyclopedic). It also then steps into evading his copyright by reposting it here without his full intended chart. Additionally, you are only linking his {äCä} example, when the standard on Wikipedia is to provide {Cä äCä (äC)}. oklopfer (💬) 20:19, 9 September 2025 (UTC)

So even linking may violate copyright? BodhiHarp 04:42, 10 September 2025 (UTC)

No, just that if we started mass importing them from his site. oklopfer (💬) 04:59, 10 September 2025 (UTC)

I'll request an audio sample at Wikipedia:Requested recordings. BodhiHarp 15:50, 10 September 2025 (UTC)

dubious sourcing

from my digging, it seems that the one source this page relies on, a dissertation from 2012, has been wiped from the internet; see https://www.iaaw.hu-berlin.de/en/region/africa/events/archives/african-linguistic-colloquium/summary-summer-semester-2012, where the presentation is no longer accessible, and was not even on its earliest wayback entry in 2021

@PharyngealImplosive7 did you import this page from a subsection of another at the time, or do you some access to the dissertation? It does not even seem like it was sourced in Special:Diff/1198107827 at the time you introduced this page.

I am skeptical that this page should even exist at all, it does not seem like it is actually attested, and it is problematic to be relying on a single, truly inaccessible source. oklopfer (💬) 02:00, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

@Oklopfer: I didn't realize it was inaccessible and probably should have actually checked the source. I actually got the information in this article from the Gǀui dialect page and would support deletion now probably. – PharyngealImplosive7 (talk) 02:11, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

That helped me track down Special:Diff/663726567 where it seems this was actually initially introduced. @Kwamikagami do you still have access to the original dissertation where this is mentioned? oklopfer (💬) 02:26, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

i made a note to look it up when i get home. if i don't have it, i know someone who will. — kwami (talk) 02:33, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

confirmed with a 2016 pub by the same author; checking on nakagawa for g/wi — kwami (talk) 06:45, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

okay, the main evidence is Gǀui. Gerlach reports it was rare with her consultants, but that Sands found it to be common with hers. however, with Gǀui it occurs as a phoneme without such allophonic variation. Nakagawa still analyses the phoneme as /qχʼ/, because he identifies the single consonant /qʟ̝̠̊ʼ/ [which he writes without the retraction diacritic] as being phonemically the second element of the complex consonants /Cqχʼ/. this analysis is controversial, however, and other [perhaps most] researchers do not accept it, treating all clicks as single consonants, so that /qʟ̝̊’/ would be the phoneme. also, he describes the lateral as post-velar in articulation, though it still behaves as a uvular with the back-vowel constraint:

Phonetically, /qχ’/ has two distinct allophonic varieties occurring in two different phonological contexts. When it occurs as a cluster offset in /tqχ’ tsqχ’/ and /kǀqχ’ kǂqχ’ kǃqχ’ kǁqχ’/ (...), it is realized as the affricated uvular ejective, which can be transcribed as [qχ’]. When it occurs independently, on the other hand, it involves an affricated lateral release in a more advanced region than the uvular, as described below. The acoustic data provided in the following section suggest that independent /qχ’/ also involves a uvular stricture with which the advanced lateral release is associated. This allophone, therefore, would be represented as [qʟ̝̊’] in a narrow phonetic transcription.

- — kwami (talk) 07:33, 12 September 2025 (UTC)