Talk:Turkey/Archive 45

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Image changes

Moxy made a number of image changes, including removing the gallery in Geography section.

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but I personally think a gallery does not place an UNDUE weight on that section, and could be useful in explaining geographic diversity in Turkey, per WP:GALLERY. Bogazicili (talk) 19:14, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

Its in climate section - WP:COUNTRYGALLERIE outlines why the vast majority of country articles dont have them reflecting protocols such as WP:GALLERY " Wikipedia is not an image repository. A gallery is not a tool to shoehorn images into an article, and a gallery consisting of an indiscriminate collection of image..." and "Generally, a gallery or cluster of images should not be added so long as there is space for images to be effectively presented adjacent to text" and " Gallery images must collectively add to the reader's understanding of the subject without causing unbalance to an article or section within an article". WP:WEIGHT "Undue weight can be given in several ways, including but not limited to the depth of detail, the quantity of text, prominence of placement, the juxtaposition of statements, and the use of imagery. " MOS:ACCIM "Avoid indiscriminate galleries because screen size and browser formatting may affect accessibility for some readers due to fragmented image display". Moxy🍁 19:31, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

The thing is Turkey has a lot of climate variation, I'm still working for re-write of climate section.

But as I said, I don't have a strong opinion and will wait for others to comment.

I did think the Latin Empire map was WP:UNDUE though, given its short duration. Bogazicili (talk) 19:37, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

I see images are a long standing problem Wikipedia:Peer review/Turkey/archive3 - will be hard to fix I guess? Moxy🍁 19:42, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

We cut a lot of text and images since then. Look at May 2020 version of the article. Still not ready for WP:GAN though. Bogazicili (talk) 19:53, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

I think the gallery Bogazicili added to the geography section was nice, but according to WP:COUNTRYGALLERIE, Moxy is right. Leo^talk 15:13, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

The gallery is pretty but I'm not sure it conveys that much about geographic diversity. That might also be conveyed by other images in the article, of which a fair few are landscapes. If there is a link between the Geographical regions and climate, this should be explained in the text. CMD (talk) 06:47, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: the above linked peer review from 2020 is from you by the way. What do you think about the current number of images in the article? Bogazicili (talk) 17:53, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

The multi-images may interfere with mobile slightly, but I'm not seeing any sandwiching or overflow on the standard Vector2022 display. CMD (talk) 03:42, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

I don't think there are any Wikipedia policies about multi images. I am seeing them in Canada, Germany, India etc.

Featured articles such as Climate change also use galleries by the way.

Given the concerns about removal of images below, maybe 3 of them can be restored in Turkey#Biodiversity in a multi image format, replacing the cat image. Turkey has 3 biodiversity regions. Bogazicili (talk) 18:17, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

India is the example we use of what not to do (text sandwiching all over.. full article horizontal scrolling implemented because of gallery that is overwhelming certain sections... rotation of images so that the best images isn't always shown etc) and as for Canada and Germany is because there's a comparison being made....as outlined at WP:COUNTRYGALLERIE. On a side note "Articles that have gone through modern FA and GA reviews generally consists of one image for every three or four paragraph summary section, as per MOS:SECTIONLOC.Moxy🍁 18:24, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

I am suggesting removing the cat image in Turkey#Biodiversity, so that section would have no image.

The comparison being made per WP:COUNTRYGALLERIE would be 3 biogeographical regions of Turkey:

Turkey has 3 out of the 36 biodiversity hotspots on Earth: the Mediterranean, Caucasus, and Irano-Anatolian hotspots ... Turkey has three biogeographical regions: the European-Siberian region, which encompasses the Black Sea coastline and circumambient mountains; the Mediterranean region, which encompasses the Mediterranean coast and mountains; and the Irano-Turanian region, which encompasses the Central East and Southeastern Anatolia regions (Gökyiğit, 2013; MOF, 1998). These areas have very different ecosystems (coastal, marine, mountainous, forested, steppe, wetland, agricultural) (Şimşek, 2014).

Examples from 3 biogeographical regions. To be added to Turkey#Biodiversity section after removing the cat image. The text would be revised.

Examples from 3 biogeographical regions. To be added to Turkey#Biodiversity section after removing the cat image. The text would be revised. First is a place holder image for an image to be requested at Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop

3 Biodiversity hotspots is also in

pp 7-8:

The chapter also discusses two important characteristics of these landscapes on the peninsula scale: the treeless landscapes of many areas from central to eastern Anatolia, and the exceptional richness of Anatolia in endemic flora and fauna species, which makes Turkey a hotspot of biodiversity within the Europe, Middle East and Turano-Iranian areas.

What do you think? Bogazicili (talk) 18:54, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

I'm simply not a fan of little mini images that you can't see that are smaller than the recognized size and that sandwich text. Or giving undue weight to one section were images only appear after all the text seeming out of place. See what others have to say. Moxy🍁 19:23, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

I understand your concern. But I think this is an important point that can be emphasized with images.

If you look at the map in Biodiversity hotspot, Turkey might be one of the few countries in 3 hotspots, if not the only one.

To reduce multi images in the article, I think we can remove one of the images in Turkey#Government_and_politics or move it down.

Chipmunkdavis, what do you think of the three images above as examples from 3 biogeographical regions? Bogazicili (talk) 16:49, 29 March 2025 (UTC)

They seem a bit too small for me to make out what they're showing. CMD (talk) 01:28, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: I fixed the pixels for the first multi images. Alternatively, the second multi images could be used. The first one would be the map of biodiversity hotspots in Turkey.

I think this is an issue we need more than a map to demonstrate. Bogazicili (talk) 21:12, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

I added the images Bogazicili (talk) 21:31, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

Little mini images that are sandwiching text...MOS:IMGSIZE. Should make the section as accessible as possible. Map is completely unrecognizable at this size. Should not go out of our way to impede information for our readers.Moxy🍁 02:41, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

@Moxy: thanks for the feedback.

I took your feedback about gallery (that it causes horizontal scrolling) and that multiple images require a comparison, and implemented your feedback.

But as I mentioned above, multi-images are justified here. Turkey has diverse landscapes and is in multiple biodiversity hotspots. Per WP:NPOV, Turkey#Geography section should reflect this, including in the images.

In MOS:IMAGESIZE, the maximum recommended is no more than 400px wide (300px for lead images) and 500px tall. The multi image doesn't exceed that. There's no MOS:Sandwich as there are no images on both sides of the text. Maps are usually not detailed in thumb size anyway, people can always click on it. Bogazicili (talk) 15:12, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Not sure anyone here thinks this is a good idea but you. Max image size is the extreme that we should go..... as for sandwiching of text it clearly says this could be done by size doesn't have to be between two images. WP:due "Undue weight can be given in several ways, including but not limited to the depth of detail, the quantity of text, prominence of placement, the juxtaposition of statements, and the use of imagery. " I'm not understanding what you're trying to portray with this random grouping of images. Example of what to follow can be found at WP:COUNTRYSIZE. Good luck. Moxy🍁 17:16, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you.

Few people objected below about the removal of the gallery, so I tried to find a compromise that does not bring the gallery back. If issues persist, we can also proceed to WP:DR such as an RfC. Bogazicili (talk) 17:43, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

User:Guy Macon/One against many Moxy🍁 17:54, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

I think Wikivoyage page of Turkey has actually some decent images.KarsVegas36 (talk) 16:20, 19 March 2025 (UTC)