Talk:The Hunting of the Snark

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The Hunting of the Snark, published in 1876, is a poem by Lewis Carroll, telling the story of ten individuals who cross the ocean to hunt the Snark. In common with other Carroll works, the meaning of the poem has been queried and analysed in depth. It is divided into eight "fits" (a pun on the archaic fitt meaning a part of a song, and fit meaning a convulsion).

This picture is Plate 9 of Henry Holiday's illustrations for the first edition of the poem. It illustrates the seventh fit, The Banker's Fate. The Banker is sitting in a chair and holding bone castanets.Illustration: Henry Holiday. Restoration: Adam Cuerden

"Literary Allusion" section: synthesis?

The "Literary allusion" section mentions that Edward Lear also has a person's waistcoat display a bodily reaction. But the first ref it gives just repeats the text of the poems, while the second seems to be an image of the cover of a journal. Does the source back up the hypothesis that the Snark mention of the waistcoat is really an allusion to Lear? HandsomeMrToad (talk) 23:11, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

That text has been replaced by a reference to what Martin Gardner wrote about this issue. --DL5MDA (talk) 19:17, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Info about alleged errors in publications of "The Hunting on the Snark".

Removed (not by me) from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Hunting_of_the_Snark&diff=next&oldid=928358530): »Rare book sellers often claim, that the first edition of ”The Hunting of the Snark” can be identified by the word “Baker” instead of “Butcher” or “Banker” in the 560th line on page 83. However, “Where the Baker had met with the Snark” is correct. “Butcher” or “Banker” in the 560th line is wrong. Also “bribe” in the 386th line on page 55 is correct, even though in the Internet the erratic “It never will look at a bride” can be found.« The removal is ok, but perhaps someone can improve the text. (See also: https://snrk.de/page-83#WP) --DL5MDA (talk) 19:14, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Hunting_of_the_Snark&type=revision&diff=940981702&oldid=937889678 --DL5MDA (talk) 21:43, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

File:Lewis Carroll - Henry Holiday - Hunting of the Snark - Plate 2.jpg scheduled for POTD

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The Hunting of the Snark is a poem composed by the English writer Lewis Carroll between 1874 and 1876, typically characterised as a nonsense poem. The plot follows a crew of ten who cross the ocean to hunt the Snark, which may turn out to be a highly dangerous Boojum. This is the second of Henry Holiday's original illustrations for the first edition of the poem. It introduces some of the crew, whose names all start with "B"; the Bellman and Baker are on the upper deck, with the Barrister seated in the background; below are the Billiard-marker, the Banker and the Broker, with the maker of Bonnets and Hoods visible behind.

Illustration credit: Henry Holiday, after Lewis Carroll; restored by Adam Cuerden

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The Hunting of the Snark is a nonsense poem written by English writer Lewis Carroll between 1874 and 1876. The plot follows a crew of ten trying to hunt the Snark, which may turn out to be a highly dangerous Boojum. This original illustration by Henry Holiday accompanies the verse:

    "But oh, beamish nephew, beware of the day,
        If your Snark be a Boojum! For then
    You will softly and suddenly vanish away,
        And never be met with again!"

Illustration credit: Henry Holiday; restored by Adam Cuerden

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What I tell you three times is true

What I tell you three times is true redirects to this page, as this is the source of that well-known quote. However, it doesn't appear to be mentioned in the article. This isn't Wikiquote so I don't want to add a "famous quotes" section, but it should at least be mentioned somewhere. Thoughts? User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 19:15, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

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Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Lewis Carroll - Henry Holiday - Hunting of the Snark - Plate 8.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for May 14, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-05-14. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:44, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

The Hunting of the Snark is a nonsense poem by the English writer Lewis Carroll, telling the story of ten characters who cross the ocean to hunt a mysterious creature known as the Snark. The poem was published in 1876 with illustrations by Henry Holiday. This is the eighth plate from Holiday's illustrations, accompanying "Fit the Sixth: The Barrister's Dream". The Barrister, one of the crew members, sleeps and dreams of witnessing the trial of a pig accused of deserting its sty. The Snark is depicted in the foreground, acting as the defence barrister and dressed in robe and wig – the nearest to an illustration of the creature in the set. The Barrister is ultimately woken by the Bellman's bell ringing in his ear, as seen in the bottom left.

Illustration credit: Henry Holiday; restored by Adam Cuerden

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The Hunting of the Snark is a nonsense poem by the English writer Lewis Carroll, telling the story of ten characters who cross the ocean to hunt a mysterious creature known as the Snark. The poem was published in 1876 with illustrations by Henry Holiday. This is the sixth plate from Holiday's illustrations, depicting the search for the snark planned in "Fit the Fourth" and commencing in "Fit the Fifth":

They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care;
They pursued it with forks and hope;
They threatened its life with a railway-share;
They charmed it with smiles and soap.

Illustration credit: Henry Holiday; restored by Adam Cuerden

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The Hunting of the Snark is a nonsense poem by the English writer Lewis Carroll, telling the story of ten characters who cross the ocean to hunt a mysterious creature known as the Snark. The poem was published in 1876 with illustrations by Henry Holiday. This is the seventh plate from his illustrations, accompanying "Fit the Fifth: The Beaver's Lesson", in which the Butcher and the Beaver hear the song of the Jubjub bird, and this causes the Butcher to be reminded of his childhood, and begin a lengthy lesson to the Beaver:

The Beaver brought paper, portfolio, pens,
And ink in unfailing supplies:
While strange creepy creatures came out of their dens,
And watched them with wondering eyes.
 
So engrossed was the Butcher, he heeded them not,
As he wrote with a pen in each hand,
And explained all the while in a popular style
Which the Beaver could well understand.

Illustration credit: Henry Holiday; restored by Adam Cuerden

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The Hunting of the Snark is a nonsense poem by the English writer Lewis Carroll, telling the story of ten characters who cross the ocean to hunt a mysterious creature known as the Snark. The poem was published in 1876 with illustrations by Henry Holiday. This is the tenth plate from his illustrations, accompanying "Fit the Eighth: The Vanishing", in which things end badly for the Baker, one of the hunters:

In the midst of the word he was trying to say
In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away—
For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.

Illustration credit: Henry Holiday; restored by Adam Cuerden

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Trying to get things a little less ad hoc with how POTD sets are handled, without massively overwhelming things, so... that's the rest of the illustrations up. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 7.8% of all FPs} 13:57, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Snark hunt

There should be a discussion in its legacy as the origin of the phrase “snark hunt”, referring to searching for something which doesn’t exist. Ganondox (talk) 03:59, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

It is true, that today “snark hunt” often is used to refer to a search for something which doesn’t exist. However, Lewis Carroll wrote (in a letter to Mary Barber, January 12, 1897) about the meaning of "The Hunting of the Snark": "... To the best of my recollection, I had no other meaning in my mind, when I wrote it: but people have since tried to find the meanings in it. The one I like best (which I think is partly my own) is that it may be taken as an Allegory for the Pursuit of Happiness. ..." DL5MDA (talk) 23:51, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

maker of Bonnets and Hoods

I was about to revert https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Hunting_of_the_Snark&diff=next&oldid=1261314938, because it's "A maker of Bonnets and Hoods" in line 10 (https://snrk.de/snarkhunt/#010) of the poem, not "A Maker of Bonnets and Hoods". That's how Carroll indicated that "maker" is not part of the name. DL5MDA (talk) 23:40, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

I replaced "Maker" by "maker", because Carroll didn't capitalize the word. DL5MDA (talk) 19:10, 5 February 2026 (UTC)

So why didn't you change it to "A maker …" as you suggested. Now there's a caption "maker of Bonnets and Hoods" which, against all English spelling rules, has the 1st letter of a caption in lower case. Further, what's the rationale for capitalising "Bonnets and Hoods"? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:50, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

Good proposal. I also considered to write "A maker of Bonnets and Hoods", because that's what Carroll wrote. Then the names of the other Snark hunters would have to be changed accordingly. What do you think? DL5MDA (talk) 13:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

I think that the current caption, "maker of …" wrongly uses lower-case "maker". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:51, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

I found a solution by adding a note behind "Maker" where the original text is quoted. DL5MDA (talk) 09:53, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

Michael, you found an even better solution. Thank you. DL5MDA (talk) 13:35, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

Other illustrators (Reception and Legacy)

I included the name of Jeffrey Fisher who has illustrated a special edition of The Hunting of the Snark published by Folio Society in 2010. Each time that I added it it was erased. https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Hunting-Snark-LEWIS-CARROLL-Jeffrey-Fisher/31018231426/bd 2A01:CB00:165A:4300:BCA5:E556:9ECC:7664 (talk) 06:32, 14 September 2025 (UTC)

That's because you ignored requests to supply a source for the information you were trying to add. MichaelMaggs (talk) 11:22, 14 September 2025 (UTC)

Douglas Adams and Lewis Carrolls usage of "fit" to enumerate chapters

MichaelMaggs removed (2025-10-14) «Douglas Adams divided his BBC radio play The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (1978) into "fits"». Reason: "That term was in use centuries before Carroll". Michael, please show how "fit" (instead of "chapter") has been in common use in the 1870s and the 1970s.

In The Hunting of the Snark, Lewis Carroll uses "fit" with the meaning of "chapter". Carroll uses "Fit" in it's archaic sense of the word "fit," which refers to a portion or section of a poem or song. Yes, the term was in use a long time before before Carroll and Adams used it. However, it was not in common use in Carroll's in Adam's time, right? So, their usage of "fit" in its archaic sense is a special feature of the Guide as well as of the Snark, which distinguishes Adams' radio play and Carroll's tragicomedy from the writings of other authors in their time. That's worth mentioning. DL5MDA (talk) 10:49, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

Douglas Adams used an old meaning; Lewis Caroll used an old meaning. There's no evidence that Adams borrowed from Carroll, and hence no reason for Adams to be mentioned in this article. MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:28, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

Edit by Michael Bednarek. DL5MDA (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

Carroll did not coin the word "Snark"

I already described where the word "snarking" was used in 1866. Now I found that the word "snark" was already used in 1831, that's one year before Lewis Carroll was born. Interestingly, it's meaning could have been similar to how we use the word today. Once I have time, I'll update the WP article. DL5MDA (talk) 01:38, 3 November 2025 (UTC)

1584~1585: A Dictionary of the Older Scottish Tongue

«About this entry: First published 2001 (DOST Vol. IX).

Quotation dates: 1584-1585

Snark, n.

※ [? Cf. Jam. snark (1882, Ayr.), mod. Eng. snark (once, 1901) to grumble, fret, later Sc. dial. and mod. Eng. snark, snork to snore.]

※ A pejorative term the precise sense of which is unclear. —a1585 Polwart Flyt. 782 (T).

Sillie snark, lene raik, rak ane aik with the hinging»

(Thanks to Reddit user SagebrushandSeafoam for the comment.) DL5MDA (talk) 10:47, 15 January 2026 (UTC)

Jabberwocky

«Written between 1874 and 1876, it borrows the setting, some creatures, and eight portmanteau words from Carroll's earlier poem "Jabberwocky" in his children's novel Through the Looking-Glass (1871).» Does the source (Lennon, Florence Becker, 1962, The Life of Lewis Carroll: Victoria through the Looking-Glass) of this statment really confirm that the Snark "borrows the setting" from Jabberwocky? The major part of Carroll's Snark tragicomedy has nothing to do with "Jabberwocky". --DL5MDA (talk) 21:48, 20 January 2026 (UTC)

Is the "Boots" the "maker of Bonnets and Hoods"?

http://thecarrollian.org.uk/cgi-bin/abc.pl?TYPE=Issue&ID=JW81&BACK=A is a URL to a page listing Abigail E. Acland and Gregory M. Acland's "‘The Crew Was Complete:…’, But How Many Was That?", p. 15-17 in issue 81 of the Jabberwocky magazine, Winter 1992/93, volume 22, no. 1, Lewis Carroll Society, UK. That article is about the question whether the "Boots" is the "maker of Bonnets and Hoods". DL5MDA (talk) 11:10, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

Ambiguous meanings of "Bonnets" and "Hoods"

In "The Hunting of the Snark" the meanings of "Bonnets" and "Hoods" are ambiguous. But Wikipedia user Rodw replaced links to disambiguation pages (where you find various meanings for those two terms) by links to "Bonnet (headgear)" and "Hood (headgear)" even though Lewis Carroll left open which meaning these two terms have. DL5MDA (talk) 22:05, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

Links in articles to disambiguation pages are generally disapproved. If you think such a link is is justified, you should explicitly link to, and of course pipe, Bonnet (disambiguation) and Hood (disambiguation), and for good measure include the HTML comment <!-- intentional link to DAB -->. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:19, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

Thanks - my knowledge of Carroll's work is limited, but the link to the disambiguation pages made them appear on the various tools at Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links. User:Michael Bednarek is right - if a link to the dab page is most appropriate the format at WP:INTDAB is best.— Rod ^talk 07:33, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

Thank you both for your replies. I hope that my edit is acceptable. DL5MDA (talk) 12:03, 25 April 2026 (UTC)

Category:Literature about animal hunting

Can we be sure that the Snark is an animal? --DL5MDA (talk) 18:58, 13 June 2026 (UTC)