Talk:Straight edge

Crass, Conflict, etc.

Veganism in punk music goes back to Crass in the late 1970s. According to members of the Swedish punk band, there is a huge difference between American and European straight edge. It was hyper political in Europe, veganism, feminism, etc. In the USA it was completely apolitical. Dennis Lyxzén of Refused said that in the USA it was a "life style patch" that you would put on when you were to be seen in public.

There is always problems when you deal with radically different cultures like America and European. As a European I read things through secular eyes. I have no concept of religion. In the USA, everything is about religion. Maybe this should be divided into American and European straight edge, because much of the stuff mentioned makes no sense to a European. I guess it's the same the other way around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.253.73.146 (talk) 15:34, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Crass were vegetarian. I don't know when or if they or individuals became vegan. Certain some, e.g. Steve Ignorant, weren't. Yeah, I know the comment's 4 years old but otherwise, it raises fair points I refer to below. --Danny Mamby (talk) 08:29, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Origins of term

I read an interview with the “Godfather of Vegan Straight Edge”, Patrick “Rat” Poole and it says,

"When was the first time someone used the term Vegan Straight Edge? What’s the world’s first vegan straight edge band and what’s the story of the bands you’ve been involved in prior to the birth of Vegan Reich / Statement?

Ha, well, if you read about Hardline on wikipedia, it states that I came up with the term Vegan Straight Edge. I’ve recently spoken to Sean Muttaqi (Vegan Reich) about this, and he confirms that it was me!"

There's a reference on the Hardline page, but not here. Poole's mention but not relating to this.

As an aside, I find both topics, especially the Hardline one, a little problematic in the way they/it portray the ideas as a "gang code" or rigidly adhered to identity required to be a member of something (that basically didn't exist beyond an op-ed in a 'zine), as if it was Mean Girls. It get worse when claims like "influenced by Islam" are included. I'm guessing they were written by people who weren't alive at the time? --Danny Mamby (talk) 08:17, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Political ideology

Per recommendation from Damien Linnane, raising the issue of what seems like unnecessary muddling in the second paragraph. The sentence "some left-leaning activists" is vague and selectively biased. There is nothing to suggest some right-leaning activists don't view straight edge with hostility. In fact, straight edge as a reaction to the status quo puts it in contrast with the right-wing's adherence to the status quo. The inclusion of the sentence also gives the false impression that straight edge isn't generally left-leaning. Haenfler calls straight edgers "(usually) progressive." To avoid causing misperception, I believe the sentence should be removed or replaced with a more precise statement on the political identity of straight edgers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:600:9180:6AD0:91D5:49C7:DA8:CED0 (talk) 07:15, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

References

An edit that may be considered irrelevant or un-encyclopedic

Hey there, I was going to go ahead and make an edit that I think could be beneficial for this page, adding a depth of understanding, but I realize that, especially without a source, this edit might be considered by others to be out-of-place, unverifiable, or un-encyclopedic, so I decided to post it here on the talk page before editing the page itself. Below is an excerpt from the opening paragraph of the page (in source) with my edit in underlined and bold. Please advise.

...Some adherents refrain from engaging in [[promiscuous]] or [[casual sex]], follow a [[vegetarian]] or [[vegan]] diet and do not consume [[caffeine]] or [[prescription drug]]s.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Straight Edge Punk {{!}} Exclaim! |url=https://exclaim.ca/music/article/straight_edge_punk-complicated_contradictions_of_straight |access-date=2024-01-26 |website=Straight Edge Punk {{!}} Exclaim! |language=en}}</ref> More broadly, adherence to Straight edge may involve the rejection of an undefined nebulous variety of hedonistic [[Temptation#Non-religious usage|temptations]] in a non-religious context. The term "straight edge" was adopted from the 1981 song "[[Straight Edge (song)|Straight Edge]]" by the hardcore punk band [[Minor Threat]].<ref name="Encyclopedia of Punk" /> Mils 87 (talk) 06:43, 15 January 2026 (UTC)

I don't disagree with your assessment, however, without a source it would constitute WP:OR, and therefore not be allowed. I'd encourage you to try and find a source that supports that if you want to add it to the article. Thanks for checking on the talk page first; it's appreciated. Damien Linnane (talk) 10:40, 15 January 2026 (UTC)

Older references to validate.

The article dates it back to the 80's - is there any actual reference material for this? Everything seems to be written in the 2010's claiming it existed in the 80's. The only 80's mention is actually a 2010's article saying a 80's song sung about vegetarianism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.3.163.187 (talk) 15:46, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

(I don't count as a citable source, but I remember being told about Straight Edge back in college, 1986 or 87, as being something I might want to look into. The X tattoos were also mentioned at the time. So it was a defined movement or lifestyle in the 80s, tho I can't give a verifiable source.) 2601:18A:8181:B3F0:EF63:21CB:5C07:C0E2 (talk) 18:33, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Hi there. Please place new comments at the bottom of talk ages, rather than the top. I've moved your comment to the bottom of the page. In regards to your question, sources would definitely exist from the 80s, and it would be a good idea to cite them. However, in today's world of the internet, it is much harder to find, for example, magazine articles from the 1980s, compared to sources that were placed online as soon as they were written, and the reality is that volunteer editors will typically use the sources that are easily available through an internet search. This is an ongoing minor problem for Wikpedia in general. It is also harder to find older books, especially if they are now out of print. It would certainly be a good idea to cite older sources as well, however, there is definitely no rule that an article must cite sources written in the time periods being referenced, so this is not considered a major issue or something the article must have. Damien Linnane (talk) 04:35, 16 June 2026 (UTC)