Talk:Stokely Carmichael

name

Shouldn't his name read Kwame Ture and not Stokely Carmichael? It's the name he is best known by and the name he chose to go by himself, pages for artists read their stage names and not their given names at birth, I don't see why Ture's article should bear a name other than his chosen. 109.79.97.248 (talk) 18:18, 27 August 2025 (UTC)

We go off the name the subject is most commonly known as. He is much more famous under the Carmichael name. Take a look at the archives, this was discussed previously.—Chowbok ☠ 20:32, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

This argument holds no water. Articles routinely redirect from one name to another, and it's a trivial and simple solution to a genuine problem that matters. Who is the arbiter of what name a person is best known for? Ture was in the media spotlight in the U.S. for a short time as Stokely Carmichael, but spent the last 20 years of his life writing and speaking on pan-Africanist and global issues as Kwame Ture. Anyone searching for "Stokely Carmichael" and landing on a page for "Kwame Ture, born Stokely Carmichael" will understand immediately and learn something as well. Dionusios (talk) 17:21, 28 September 2025 (UTC)

"Who is the arbiter of what name a person is best known for?" Like with most things on Wikipedia, it's determined by consensus. Please read the archives. There was no consensus that he was better known as Kwame Ture, therefore the article stayed at its current location. And anyone searching for "Stokely Carmichael" will learn of his later name by reading the first sentence of this article.—Chowbok ☠ 21:48, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

He is better known as Kwame Ture, and also it is generally Wiki policy to use chosen names when applicable. We properly change names to align with people's gender identity when they publically change their name, regardless of the fame of their previous name, such as with Caitlyn Jenner. Therefore the same curtesy should be extended to Kwame Ture, like other Black Revolutionaries before him like Malcom X who rejected the names given to them at birth. Kwame Ture is mostly known for his activism as a Black revolutionary and should be referred to by the name he used in that capacity. It seems incredibly disrespectful, confusing, and wrong to name this article otherwise. (Sorry re-commenting because I accidentally did so without being logged in before) Jdftba (talk) 01:02, 10 October 2025 (UTC)

It's not the job of an encyclopedia to be "respectful" of the subjects of articles.—Chowbok ☠ 04:11, 11 October 2025 (UTC)

Every article for trans people makes a note not to dead name them, I don't think this is that different. ~2026-18873-56 (talk) 20:01, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

"(He) is mostly known for his activism as a Black revolutionary and should be referred to by the name he used in that capacity" - That would be Stokely Carmichael then. Kind regards, Grueslayer 09:33, 11 October 2025 (UTC)

He is best known as 'Stokely Carmichael' Seki1949 (talk) 22:25, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

Is there some sort of source you are using to make this claim? I'm not sure I agree that he's best known under that name, and I think it is hard to determine which name he is more known under. I'd argue a lot of people who know of him know of him under both names. Annependectomy (talk) 18:35, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

As I've said a few times now, look in the archives for how this was determined. That said, it seems like common sense that there are many people who are not very familiar with him that have heard of "Carmichael" but not "Ture", but very few people who know who "Kwame Ture" is and do not know he was once Stokely Carmichael. Therefore he's better known as Carmichael.—Chowbok ☠ 01:35, 15 November 2025 (UTC)

If I can just chime in, I know him as Kwame Ture more than by any other name. --Inayity (talk) 14:06, 9 January 2026 (UTC)

I learned about his old name because I was looking for Wikipedia's article on him. I knew him exclusively as Kwame Ture up until Wikipedia introduced me to that name. I don't see why the article can't simply redirect a search for his previous name to an article titled Kwame Ture. ~2026-13871-21 (talk) 18:45, 3 March 2026 (UTC)

Because the majority of people know him by the name of Stokely Carmichael. You found the article though, so all is good. Kind regards, Grueslayer 07:46, 5 March 2026 (UTC)

Doesn't this make just about as much sense as calling muhammad ali by "cassius clay"? Kwame Ture is the name people know and use when he is talked about. I was confused when I Stokely Carmichael and thought I misclicked onto another article before checking. ~2026-21234-15 (talk) 21:40, 6 April 2026 (UTC)

Ture was a black nationalist, but he wasn't a black Muslim. Muhammad Ali was. For Ali, his new name was a religious matter that he observed religiously. Many black nationalists do not guard their names that way. Amiri Baraka acknowledged being Leroi Jones all the time.GPRamirez5 (talk) 21:01, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

I agree with this and have had a similar experience. No great reason to refer to him as birth-name and only generates confusion. SP00KYtalk 10:55, 9 April 2026 (UTC)

The URL of the article even uses Kwame Ture. The use of Stokely Carmichael seems like a deliberate aberration. ~2026-21234-15 (talk) 21:49, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

This is simply untrue, especially in retrospect. Whenever Ture is discussed, its always as Ture, and there's no point deadnaming him 20 years after his passing. Hope this helps- Ilanium. ~2026-25753-69 (talk) 19:45, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

If this is true, how come Muhammad Ali is referred to as Cassius Clay throughout his whole article? This holds no water and feels like a double standard meant to prolong this weird omission of this Kwame Ture's name. Dagrabbit (talk) 13:42, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

Edit: I was wrong. He's referred to as Clay for about the first half of his article; still, though, I think that's a weird argument to use for this. Dagrabbit (talk) 13:45, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

Beyond my knowing him primarily as Kwame Ture, which is just personal experience so I understand if its not accepted as valid reasoning, doesn't Wikipedia use chosen names over birth names? To my knowledge, Wikipedia refrains from using the deadnames of transgender people, which I feel should be applied to this, too. Ehrose (talk) 16:53, 31 May 2026 (UTC)

So as for some objective criteria, here's the Google Ngram Viewer for a start: Klick. Kind regards, Grueslayer 05:16, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

This isn't really objective because a lot of media did change his name purposely to do demean him and denegrate his pan-africanist beliefs. This is another reason why the article should use Kwame Ture in my opinion, to respect Ture's wishes. ~2026-25753-69 (talk) 19:49, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

You made that up. Also, an encyclopedia is not written according to how people would like to be described. Kind regards, Grueslayer 12:18, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

dude, you wouldn't deadname a trans person, would you? Elliott Page is most well-known as Ellis Page, but everything in his page calls him Elliott, so why differentiate for Ture? This feels racially motivated. Cupidyucky (talk) 12:34, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

Mind my mistake on Elliott Page's deadname. Apologies. But my point still stands. Cupidyucky (talk) 09:16, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

The major 21st century biography of the man is entitled Stokely:A Life. It's written by a liberal, award-winning African-American professor named Peniel Joseph who's considered "the dean of Black Power studies." GPRamirez5 (talk) 14:47, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

Elliott Page would not subtitle their memoir The Life and Times of Ellen Page, but Ture subtitled his memoir The Life and Struggles of Stokely Carmichael. GPRamirez5 (talk) 21:01, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

This is beside the point, but Elliott Page (at least as I have seen) only goes by masculine pronouns, so we should probably refer to him as such. Ehrose (talk) 16:58, 31 May 2026 (UTC)

Phrasing is off

Carmichael privately took credit for pushing King toward anti-imperialism, and historians such as Peniel Joseph and Michael Eric Dyson agree. Would it not be better to say according to Dyson etc, Ture took credit... ? I am asking just in case I missed something. Inayity (talk) 14:04, 9 January 2026 (UTC)

Requested move 25 May 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jeffrey34555 (talk) 18:58, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

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Stokely Carmichael → Kwame TureKwame Ture – While well known under his former name, and the body of the article is fine in that regard by applying to the MOS and P&Gs we have, in line with how we treat articles where MOS:CHANGEDNAME and MOS:DEADNAME also apply, the present chosen name Kwame Ture (which he is also well known under) should be the title used for his article. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 17:28, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

• Comment (without expressing an opinion): I think what you want to refer to here is WP:NAMECHANGES, not those other two, which don't seem especially relevant. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:44, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

Yes, WP:DEADNAME applies only in the very specific context of a changed gender identity. 162 etc. (talk) 19:34, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Few sources refer to him as Kwame Ture. Zacwill (talk) 09:45, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME - ngrams clearly show a lead for the cureent name.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:19, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

Support - I'm of the mind that one should refer to someone as they'd like to be referred, purely as a question of basic manners and social civility. Aside this, in contemporary conversation and so on I have only ever heard him referred to as Kwame Ture, for example, it is Kwame Ture Society not Stokely Carmichael Society, the Kwame Ture Archive not Stokely Carmichael Archive, the Kwame Ture Educational and Development Centre, not the Stokely Carmichael Educational and Development Centre, and so on and so on. Edit: I find it interesting how whenever this is proposed a bunch of people turn up who, judging by browsing their contribution histories which tend to be full of edits on exclusively non-political and incredibly mundane pages, have 0 interest in the subject yet turn up to agitate against this change. Something should be done about this. SP00KYtalk 15:00, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, see Google Books Ngram Viewer as just one example. Kind regards, Grueslayer 20:27, 27 May 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose. Overwhelmingly common name. Moving it would be ridiculous. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:27, 29 May 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.