Talk:State University of New York at Cobleskill

Requested move 22 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved per WP:SNOW, considered in the context of the 100+ RMs proposed at once by this user. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 04:28, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

---

State University of New York at Cobleskill → SUNY CobleskillSUNY Cobleskill – WP:COMMONNAME. Theparties (talk) 14:46, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. The full name provides a WP:TITLECON consistent naming convention across all articles on universities and colleges in the United States. Many reliable sources like Forbes and US News and World Report still use the full name. The OP has also made numerous individual RMs on this same issue like this one, which may violate WP:ACROTITLE or use a shorter common name that is rarely used outside a sports/athletic context. Better to stick to the status quo. Zzyzx11 (talk) 14:46, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose as unnecessary, unwise, and unhelpful for readers. ElKevbo (talk) 15:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, per the comments of Zzyzx11. —Eyer (he/him) If you reply, add {{reply to|Eyer}} to your message. 16:04, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:TITLEFORMAT#Avoid ambiguous abbreviations, WP:ACROTITLE, and what Zzyzx11 said. – Epicgenius (talk) 14:40, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 23 March 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. This RM is five times older than it should be, so I'll bite the bullet and close as no consensus. Both sides make convincing policy arguments, supporters using emphasize WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE, noting that SUNY is the primary way the institute is known, satisfying MOS:ACROTITLE. Opposition notes WP:RECOGNIZABLE and also cites MOS:ACROTITLE. Closing as no consensus also creates consistency with Talk:State University of New York at Geneseo. It may be valuable to seek consensus at WP:HED for a general rule, as one user notes. (non-admin closure) Feeglgeef (talk) 02:14, 30 April 2026 (UTC)

---

State University of New York at Cobleskill → SUNY CobleskillSUNY Cobleskill – Current title is neither the COMMON nor official name of the college (State University of New York College of Agriculture and Technology at Cobleskill).

Local media searches for "State University of New York at Cobleskill" at timesunion.com, wamc.org, news10.com, cbs6albany.com, wnyt.com return zero results (though it has an SEO index at WAMC), and only four results in articles at dailygazette.com. SUNY Cobleskill appears dozens of times in each outlet, including the NYT. "State University..." appears ten times at nytimes.com, mostly in older results. Listed with US News as SUNY Cobleskill.

At Google Scholar, "SUNY Cobleskill" returns 4x as many results as "State University of New York at Cobleskill," while at JStor, "SUNY Cobleskill" returns 150 results to only 29, likewise ProQuest returns 4,053 results to 477, establishing a clear COMMONNAME. The subject is known primarily by its abbreviation and the abbreviation is primarily associated with the subject, per ACROTITLE (note use in article titles for SUNY Brockport, SUNY Polytechnic Institute) —BrechtBro (talk) 17:50, 23 March 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 17:07, 30 March 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. HundredVisionsAndRevisions (talk) 17:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 22:37, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject SUNY and WikiProject New York (state) have been notified of this discussion. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 17:06, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

Comment: This RM has been attempted before in 2024, with the consensus being to keep the current title. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 02:58, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

Previous RM was bad, part of a mass nomination streak of colleges to acronyms, with no justification for the individual moves related to the actual article. Opposition was also boilerplate to the group of nominations. —BrechtBro (talk) 17:09, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

Agreed. The last RM was over a year ago, had modest participation, and did not engage with most of the policies and evidence that are under discussion here. The speedy-closure and at least one editor's opposition were based in large part on the disruptive nature of the nomination of >100 individual pages. The 2024 RM does not indicate strong consensus nor does it provide a procedural basis to object to this fresh proposal. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 21:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC)

Note that SUNY is not an ambiguous term. See also: SUNY Adirondack, SUNY Downstate Health Sciences University, SUNY Erie, SUNY Niagara, SUNY Sullivan. —BrechtBro (talk) 18:04, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

Oppose for ACROTITLE, the acronym SUNY is itself known to people who know NY/American universities, but is not at all clear to the average WP user. Therefore spelling out the acronym is the best course of action.

Would support a Move that better reflects the official name without using an acronym, but "State University of New York at Cobleskill" feels like a good compromise option that preserves clarity while not being overlong like "State University of New York College of Agriculture and Technology at Cobleskill" Dizzycheekchewer (talk) 19:01, 3 April 2026 (UTC)

Relisting comment: reopening per nom request, pending outcome of Talk:State_University_of_New_York_at_Geneseo#Requested_move_22_March_2026 HundredVisionsAndRevisions (talk) 17:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC)

• Support per WP:SHORTFORM. As noted above, we have several other SUNY article titles that don't spell out the abbreviation in their titles. Readers seem more likely to easily recognize the SUNY term than the spelled-out form, and it's more WP:CONCISE. It wouldn't make sense to have this one spelled out and not the others. We have Central Intelligence Agency, but CIA activities in Vietnam and List of CIA station chiefs, not Central Intelligence Agency activities in Vietnam or List of Central Intelligence Agency station chiefs. Similarly, we have Federal Bureau of Investigation, but FBI files on Elvis Presley and FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives, not Federal Bureau of Investigation files on Elvis Presley and Federal Bureau of Investigation Ten Most Wanted Fugitives. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC)

Comment: I'm not sure why this was reopened. Besides my own comment against, there were four (unanimous) opposing voices to this exact change, less than a year and a half ago. Now there are two people who support, with 5 who did not. Maybe there'll be more to weigh in, but still seems like the support wasn't forthcoming.

Either way, I submit this style guide from the Wikiproject: Higher Education so that we can consider WP: Consistent concerns as well as (also valid) WP: Concise concerns

• "Never use abbreviations or acronyms in titles unless the institution you are naming is almost exclusively known only by including such terms and is widely used in that form. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (abbreviations) for more information.
• For universities that are part of a larger system, in general, the university name is followed by a comma and the name of the city in which the institution is located. For example, University of California, Berkeley and University of California, San Diego. Residential colleges within universities often follow a similar form, for example – Jesus College, Cambridge and Jesus College, Oxford. Some university systems use at (e.g., University of Colorado at Boulder); others use an en dash (e.g., University of Wisconsin–Madison), both of which are acceptable. Most university websites should provide clarification, but in general, it is preferred that all institutions in the system use the same naming convention. This may be overruled by common branding."

Of course not everything follows the guide (all but SUNY Downstate above have SUNY Blank as their sole (official and common) name, so they are the exceptions that prove the rule), as may be the case here, but there's a higher bar to merit straying from an established style choice for this class of article. If users think that colleges should front-load acronyms in their names, I would bring a case to the talk page there so these changes can be made holistically rather than piecemeal. This plus Geneseo and Upstate make for three simultaneous move requests not based on name changes or policy changes or a noticeable shift in naming conventions, but on their names being long and on the existence of a shortform version of those names. It's not nothing, but imo, it's not enough.

With the reopening and the lag in responses, I think it makes sense to ping the original opposers (@Epicgenius, @Eyer, @ElKevbo, @ElKevbo, @Zzyzx) and see where they stand (if still active and interested in topic) on the new argument for a move. Nominator may be completely correct that their issue was just the method, not the substance, but only they can say. Either way, I won't participate further in discussion here, unless pinged, so as not to prevent others from having their say. Dizzycheekchewer (talk) 06:32, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I'd actually say that my previous oppose was based on the fact that the previous RM was filed by a user who filed more than 100 RMs to move college articles to their nicknames or shortened names.

I would say, in the case of SUNY, that "SUNY Cobleskill" and the like might actually meet WP:COMMONNAME, even if it could still fall on the wrong side of WP:TITLEFORMAT#Avoid ambiguous abbreviations or WP:ACROTITLE. That being said, compared with the previous discussion's nominator, the nom of this nomination seems to have provided more substantive evidence that "SUNY Cobleskill" is the more common name. I'm neutral on this current request as I have not looked into it in depth. – Epicgenius (talk) 12:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

I have provided evidence for each of these RMs and cited relevant policies - WP:CONCISE also applies here. Article title policy does not hinge on WP:OFFICIALNAME branding. —BrechtBro (talk) 13:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

• Support. The guidance at WP:ACROTITLE and MOS:ACROTITLE allows for short forms that are unambiguous and likely to be recognizable to readers familiar with the subject. SUNY Cobleskill fulfills these criteria. Additionally, ACROTITLE considerations must be balanced with all the applicable article title policies and guidelines. The nom has demonstrated that this is the common name and my assessment further supports this. I looked at a series of Google Ngrams and these all show that "SUNY Cobleskill" has been in use for decades, has been more common than the current title "State University of New York at Cobleskill" since about 1971, and has been the dominant form since the late 2000s or early 2010s. At very least, "SUNY Cobleskill" is the most common name among numerous variants. This is certainly more WP:CONCISE than the current title or other variations that are in use. WP:CONSISTENT titles are preferred to the extent that it is practical. SUNY article titles are already inconsistent and there are multiple concurrent SUNY RMs underway, so this criterion doesn't clearly favor one title over the other. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 21:31, 11 April 2026 (UTC)
• Support BrechtBro's WP:COMMONNAME argument is convincing. ElKevbo (talk) 22:50, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose as proposed, per WP:RECOGNIZE, MOS:ACROTITLE, the comments from the previous RM on this page, and my comments at the RM at Talk:State University of New York at Geneseo. SUNY is not a universally used and understood acronym, especially on a worldwide basis. Station1 (talk) 21:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

  Requiring that an acronym be "universally used and understood, especially on a worldwide basis" is neither a reasonable standard nor one that is based in Wikipedia policy. ElKevbo (talk) 03:00, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

  If "State University of New York" is recognizable to virtually every reader of English WP, even if they've never heard of it before, but "SUNY" is recognizable to a smaller number of readers, it is entirely reasonable to use the more recognizable title. It is WP policy to use recognizable titles and to avoid acronyms in titles in most cases. There can be exceptions where the acronym is far better known than the words it abbreviates (ie, more recognizable), but "SUNY" does not rise to that level. Station1 (talk) 07:56, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

  I agree with you up to a point—it is beneficial to select a title that makes the article's subject apparent even to readers who are unfamiliar with it. But it's not the job of a title and we have to balance this with other considerations. WP:RECOGNIZE says to use the most common name, when there is one, and to select the optimal title in light of all five naming criteria (and other considerations). WP:NAMINGCRITERIA defines this criterion as: Recognizability – The title is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area will recognize. Readers familiar with the school and the SUNY system are likely to recognize the shorter name. The current title uses a name that is less common than either SUNY Cobleskill or variations on the much longer name. I just can't see my way to using a title that is not official and is less common than other variations. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 13:56, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

  Our only difference of opinion seems to lie in that you see "SUNY Cobleskill" as a name when in fact it's an abbreviation of a name. If it's not a name, how common it is is irrelevant. Abbreviations are by their nature and purpose more commonly used than the longer names they represent, but their use presumes the meaning of the acronym has already been established. As an encyclopedia, I believe we should consistently establish a topic's full common name in the title whenever possible. And I'm not necessarily opposed to any change to this article's title, only to making it less recognizable by use of the acronym with no discernible offsetting benefit to readers. Station1 (talk) 17:47, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

  I hear you. The nom did find sources that identify the school only as "SUNY Cobleskill". I found others including usage by national outlets like The New York Times and US News & World Report. The NYT database in the first link uses the full name for University of California schools. UCLA and Berkeley are more well known nationally and globally than Cobleskill. "SUNY Cobleskill" checks the most boxes for me, but I understand your opposition, and I think it's reasonable. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 18:07, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

  It is both an acronym and a name itself. The sourcing provided by myself and Mycaeteae demonstrate that this passes the bar of WP:ACROTITLE: ...avoided unless the subject is known primarily by its abbreviation and that abbreviation is primarily associated with the subject (e.g. PBS, NATO, Laser). Unlike for Geneseo, I don't think there is any ambiguity in what the commoname for Cobleskill is, making the acronym the most WP:NATURAL title for the article. —BrechtBro (talk) 18:33, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

  We simply disagree, then. We agree ambiguity is not an issue, but I cited MOS:ACROTITLE, which says in part: "In general, if readers somewhat familiar with the subject are likely to only [emphasis added] recognise the name by its acronym, then the acronym should be used as a title. If the acronym and the full name are both in common use, both pages should exist, with one (usually the abbreviation) redirecting to the other...." In my opinion SUNY simply doesn't rise to the level of NATO, much less Laser. Station1 (talk) 18:48, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

  Yeah, we disagree and are putting more weight on different aspects of the relevant P&G and evidence. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 19:52, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose per MOS:ACROTITLE and relevant comments above. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:03, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

Note: Talk:State_University_of_New_York_at_Geneseo#Requested_move_22_March_2026, which this RM was reopened pending the outcome of, has been closed with no consensus (the title remaining at the long form name). ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 04:45, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.