Talk:Sex–gender distinction

Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Public Policy

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2025 and 22 April 2025. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kendall.rogers (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Mnmowers0, AAWill2002.

— Assignment last updated by Shakaigaku Obasan (talk) 20:02, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

Suggested inclusion of the Institute for Sexual Science as early researchers & potential exclusion of John Money

The second paragraph states: "Though sex and gender have been used interchangeably at least as early as the fourteenth century, this usage was not common by the late 1900s. Sexologist John Money pioneered the concept of a distinction between biological sex and gender identity in 1955."

I think there is necessary context in the works of the Institute for Sexual Science and the Scientific-Humanitarian Committee under Magnus Hirschfeld, which were active from the very late 19th century until 1933. This might be a complex undertaking due to the language barrier and lack of grammatical differentiation between "sex" and "gender" in German. Seeing as the Institute for Sexual Science provided early forms of what we would call 'gender-affirming care' today, there seems to have been some differentiation, likely stemming from Hirschfeld's theory of "Sexual Intermediacy".

John Money as a whole seems controversial for this section, as his own page points out he did not coin the phrase "gender identity" but rather "gender role" and his theories may not represent the contemporary idea of "gender". The excerpt on his own page 'Money believed that de-stereotyping sex roles might prevent people from wanting to transition, arguing “a tomboy-ish girl, prenatally androgenized, grows up to be a career-minded woman, not a transsexual who claims to need sex reassignment”.' actually implies the opposite, since prenatal androgenization would be a factor of sex, rather than gender.

Additionally, it seems misleading to bring up John Money's 1955 work first (and as pioneering), before naming Issac Madison Bentley and his work from a decade prior. Is there any reason why they wouldn't be listed chronologically? 95.90.183.82 (talk) 15:02, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

Adding to this: The beginning of the section on Feminist Theory starts by naming Simone de Beauvoir's "The Second Sex" as "responsible for bringing the sex/gender distinction into feminist theory".

This would contradict John Money's "pioneering" status, as it was released in 1949 and therefore predates John Money's 1955 claim. 95.90.183.82 (talk) 15:16, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

To pioneer doesn't necessarily mean invent. The claim would have to be supported by someone who could posit that John Money's influence wasn't a major factor in popularizing the distinction.

I think each stage does something slightly different

1920s: Hirschfeld (Conceptual/Medical distinction).

1945: Madison Bentley (Social/Psychological terminology).

1949: Simone de Beauvoir (Philosophical/Feminist distinction or "One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman").

1955: John Money (Clinical popularization of "gender role").

"Most contemporary social scientists, behavioral scientists and biologists, many legal systems and government bodies and intergovernmental agencies such as the WHO make a distinction between gender and sex"

I think, although I don't know, the definitional differences and their origin is a complicated overlapping. I think though, John Money made it 'real' but this is not the sort of debate that can be resolved through a singular citation. ~2026-25117-11 (talk) 15:00, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

i don't agree with your definition of pioneer -- It is implied that the definition being used is Miriam-Webster's second definition, and popularizing something doesn't count as helping "open up" a new line of thought because Hirschfeld already opened this idea up, he just popularized/shared it and made it worse in a way that is antithetical to the topic of this page. Nyx13013 (talk) 19:30, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

"Biological sex" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Biological sex has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 August 27 § Biological sex until a consensus is reached. Raladic (talk) 07:44, 27 August 2025 (UTC)