Talk:Phoenician alphabet

Theodor Nodelke's statement about changes in meaning of the letters

Saying that what he wrote about the changes is "dubious" is just pure nonsense. I think he knew a lot more about these languages than the jerk who said his ideas are dubious. Jim in Mission, KS 2602:304:CDB7:31A0:B032:FD82:B676:3BB4 (talk) 22:05, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

This entire article is dubious and so are the "scholars" You cannot look at the Phoenician alphabet and culture and not immediately deduce the language and culture is a continuation of Minoan society and their scripts. People talking about Yemen or Paleo-Hebrew or Indo-Imaginarian are crack heads. The symbols used are near identical, and resemble nothing of Asian origin. ~2026-20187-73 (talk) 14:43, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Paleo Hebrew

Is not an entirely different system: it’s Phoenician system renamed to Paleo Hebrew following the founding of Israel in 1948. If it is going to be listed as a child system of Phoenician, there needs to be a real discussion on here about what makes it its own distinct system, like the other child systems. Otherwise it’s the same exact system just with a different name. And that is political and not factually based argument. Israeli revisionism is changing the name and contributions of ancient Phoenician culture and language. Use of the term "Paleo-Hebrew alphabet" is due to a 1954 suggestion by Solomon Birnbaum, who argued that "[to apply the term Phoenician [from Northern Canaan, today's Lebanon] to the script of the Hebrews [from Southern Canaan, today's Israel-Palestine] is hardly suitable". Lebanesebebe123 (talk) 02:14, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Wilhelm Gesenius' Canaanite to Hebrew alphabet Chart Shows Ancient Vowels

https://www.google.com/search?q=Wilhelm+Gesenius+Canaanite+to+Hebrew+alphabet+Chart&oq=Wilhelm+Gesenius+Canaanite+to+Hebrew+alphabet+Chart+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRigATIHCAQQIRigATIHCAUQIRigATIHCAYQIRiPAtIBCDc5NThqMGo3qAIUsAIB&client=ms-android-tmus-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8 Ameninhat (talk) 21:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

If you're referring to those "vowels" depicted at the bottom of the table, those are the Hebrew niqqud vocalic diacritics. They are not attested in Phoenician and are a later innovation. Il Qathar (talk) 15:41, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Wilhelm Gesenius Canaanite to Hebrew alphabet

The 1830s work of Wilhelm Gesenius, which was purposely omitted/excluded by Gottigen University faction founders of Nazism, shows that the so called Canaanite/Phoenician (Western Canaanite) alphabet did/does have vowels, from which Greek was derived. Ameninhat (talk) 00:22, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Greek "H" is derived from a Phoenician consonant, and only eventually it became a vowel. The ʔalep was a glottal stop (again, a consonant), adopted as an "A" by the Greeks. "O" was derived from the consonant ʕayin. The other two, yod and waw, are semi-consonants /j/ and /w/, respectively, and were adopted by Greeks for the vocalic sounds of iota and ypsilon. This already known, but none of those are vowels in the Phoenician script, which is simply not an alphabet but an abjad (a consonantal script).

A study from 1830's doesn't add to what has been extensively studied ever since, with increasing more evidence than Gesenius ever imagined. Il Qathar (talk) 15:38, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Hieroglyphs and Brahmi not displayed after installing all necessary fonts and restarting Google Chrome browser 109.0.5414.120 on Windows.

I know it is an old version but, some times, an old computer is all you can have when working at so many different places. It is strange the fact that hieroglyphs are perfectly displayed on the Egyptian hieroglyphs article.

I had to use Mozilla Firefox 101.0.1 (64-bit) to solve the issue (which is old, too).

Ironically, most of the fonts I installed are provided by the Google Fonts project.

George Rodney Maruri Game (talk) 23:55, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Timeline of Cadmus

"According to Herodotus, the Phoenician prince Cadmus was accredited with the introduction of the Phoenician alphabet—phoinikeia grammata 'Phoenician letters'—to the Greeks, who adapted it to form their Greek alphabet. Herodotus claims that the Greeks did not know of the Phoenician alphabet before Cadmus. He estimates that Cadmus lived 1600 years before his time, while the historical adoption of the alphabet by the Greeks was barely 350 years before Herodotus."

-- Wadjmose (~1500BC), son of Thutmose I, is the earliest reference to a Cadmus. Wadj in Wadjmose is mistranslated from the Snake Goddess Wadjet instead of the correct snake goddess Kadesh (with an egg/s); but he would correspond to the earlier Cadmus, son of Ogyges, and not the Sidonian Prince.

The timeline for the Sidonian Prince, son of Agenor, who went to Thebes, Greece, is that he was a contemporary of Amenhotep III(1391–1353 BC), while it was still under control of the Egyptians. This timeline would refer to Linear B as the Phoenician Alphabet of Cadmus; The undeciphered Cypro-Minoan could also be considered a lesser candidate for this timeline.

Note: Agenor is a near name match to Thutmose 2, Aa-Kheper-eN-Re; he was probably named after Thutmose 2, who most likely conquered the City of Sidon; His son Thutmose III also conquered the Phoenicians. 150.195.202.73 (talk) 14:59, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

Balatro addition?

Should it be mentioned that the game Balatro takes these and uses them as the names and symbols for the Boss Blinds? ~2026-19792-27 (talk) 22:04, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

I don't think Balatro is important enough in the scale of this topic. Might be an addition to the Balatro page.

Speederzzz (Talk) (Stalk) 12:10, 31 March 2026 (UTC)

Alright, just wanted to make sure ~2026-19792-27 (talk) 15:08, 31 March 2026 (UTC)