Talk:Nile Delta

Error

There are two pages for Nile delta; one is with capital D (Delta) and one with small d (delta) and their contents are not similar, so please if any one can solve it, please do.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.34.27.233 (talk) 12:35, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Erosion rate

The article states the delta is eroding at 50km per year -- this can't be correct as it is only around 150km long so would be gone in three years. Presumably it is eroding at 50 km^2 per year, however there is no citation so I can't check this. If anyone knows a source for the erosion rate, can they correct this. I'm going to change it to square so it at least makes some sense. QU4N71FY (talk) 09:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Rosseta Stone

The article says the Rosseta Stone was discovered in 1787 while the photo caption says it was 1799. (213.96.203.23 (talk) 07:37, 6 August 2008 (UTC))

Population section restored

I discovered a population section had been removed. I will restore it and check it is accurate. Carcharoth (talk) 07:24, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I notice the citation for the population section says "accessed 11 April 1908" for a website, which is obviously nonsense. DubleH (talk) 12:01, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

At least one of the see other lit references goes to a dead link

Not a good idea to use references to web pages that might disappear in the near future....the one on Nile in the 1930's is dead. Some of the other articles are one sided or just plain wrong. The major problem of subsidence is completely left out of the discussion of the receding shoreline, and there appears to be no mention of the affect of the Aswan dam on the delta.

Avram Primack (talk) 22:58, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Historical land loss, submersion

I have opened a related discussion here: Talk:Egypt#Submersion of coastal land. This is distinct from the reality and further threat of submersion due to modern, man-made climate change. In short: Why did cities from the Delta become submerged in the Hellenistic, Roman, Early Muslim periods? Major topic, not properly discussed anywhere. Arminden (talk) 12:54, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

"Communities" section & Al-Baharwa

Regarding the section "Communities" and its content: "In Egypt, Al-Baharwa are the Egyptian people who live in the Nile Delta, excluding Cairo and Alexandria. Al-Baharwa are residents of the Nile Delta,..." This article is on a geographic object: a river delta. It is okay for the article to have very cursory list of cultures, cities and man-made structures ... but this article should not go into depth about cities, cultures or ethnic groups. The existing "Communities" section goes into too much depth about one group of people (Al-Baharwa). A better approach is to simply have a list of the names of all cultures/ethnic groups in the delta. Readers can click on the names to reach another WP article with more detail. Noleander (talk) 15:12, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

And, if this encyclopedia does not have an article on Al-Baharwa, then such an article should be created. @Pawkl: - if you want help creating a new article on Al Baharwa, let me know and I can help you with that. Noleander (talk) 15:14, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

There is no article about Al-Baharwa on the English Wikipedia, even though there are articles about them in other Wikimedia projects, and they are even protected there.

I do not know how to create pages.

Can you create a page about Al-Baharwa on the English Wikipedia? Pawkl (talk) 16:18, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

OK I can create the article. If I have not created it in two days, then send me a message on my talk page to remind me. Noleander (talk) 16:39, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

These sources talk about Al-Baharwa

https://nathre.com/%D8%A3%D8%B3%D9%84%D9%88%D8%A8-%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%A9/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%A9-%D8%B3%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%AF%D9%84%D8%AA%D8%A7-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%86%D9%8A%D9%84-%D9%88%D8%AC%D8%B0%D9%88%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8%AE%D8%B5%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A9#google_vignette

these sources talk about the dialects of Al-Baharwa

https://www.bayut.com/mybayut/ar/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%87%D8%AC%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A9/

They also have a fully protected page on Egyptian Wikipedia because of vandals who tried to vandalize it

https://arz.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%88%D9%87 Pawkl (talk) 17:38, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

Thank you, my friend @Noleander 😊 Pawkl (talk) 17:39, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

@Pawki: - Are there any books that discuss or define the Baharwa people and culture? Best would be books by professors or scholars. Or, are there any academic journal articles about the Baharwa? The English Wikipedia has a policy WP:Verifiability - this policy requires that any new article must be based on reliable books or articles. Generally, informal web sites are not allowed as sources. But high-quality web sites that are known to be accurate and factual are acceptable. I see the Egyptian WP article has four sources named at the bottom: are any of those source books by professors? or journal articles by professors? Has any professor or scholar written anything about the Baharwa people? If no books are available, maybe I can use an article from a large Arabic-language newspaper (that is known for being accurate and factual). I'll need those kinds of sources to create a new article. Noleander (talk) 20:37, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

I sent you sources that talk about them.

I don't know much about collecting sources in English, but there are English sources that discuss the dialects of Al-Baharwa, since they speak Egyptian Arabic, and there are others who speak the Bahari dialect (the dialect of the rural Nile Delta).

I believe that the mission of Wikipedia is to make information available about people, especially since they are a group with their own culture, history, and dialects.

You will find this information in these two English sources in the Languages section.

https://oxfordbusinessgroup.com/reports/egypt/2014-report/economy/a-blend-of-ancient-and-modern-an-influential-regional-player-with-a-relatively-broad-based-and-growing-economy

https://oxfordbusinessgroup.com/reports/egypt/2016-report/economy/crossroads-of-civilisation-egypt-remains-a-centre-for-regional-and-global-trade Pawkl (talk) 21:07, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

The sources can be in any language .. they do not need to be in English language. I looked at the Arabic sources you provided above, but they seemed to be informal web sites. The two English language sources you mention above are https://oxfordbusinessgroup.com ... but that is not a very strong website; it appears to be a private for-profit business. Web sites can sometimes be okay. For details on what sources are okay, see the Wikipedia Reliable Sources policy. Usually books or articles by professors are best. If there are no books or articles by professors, then websites can perhaps be okay, but they must be solid, strong websites with a reputation for excellent quality, high accuracy, and correctness. Examples of acceptable websites:

• Major newspapers
• Museums
• Government agencies
• Colleges
• Non-profit organizations like United Nations, Olympic Committee, Doctors Without Borders, etc

Are there any Arabic language websites like those that describe the Baharwa and culture? I can use a language translator to translate them into English. Noleander (talk) 21:58, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

There are websites of major Egyptian newspapers that mention that the inhabitants of the Nile Delta regions are called Baharwa, but this appears within the context of articles discussing television series about them, not in articles specifically about them.

Is this sufficient ? Pawkl (talk) 00:49, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

The television series might be a good source. Is it a factual and historical documentary? or a fictional story? When was the TV series produced? Who was the producer of the series? Is it available online on the web somewhere? Noleander (talk) 01:08, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

The series is “Fakhr El-Delta” (Pride of the Delta). It is a series that talks about the story of a young man who belongs to the people of the Nile Delta regions, who are known as Al-Baharwa. He later moves to the capital, Cairo, to work in the advertising field. The series discusses the stories of young people who belong to the Baharwa and their experiences in the capital, Cairo.

The series was produced and aired in 2026, and it is broadcast on the DMC channel, Al-Hayah, and several other channels. You can also search for it online, even in English. Pawkl (talk) 03:00, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

OK I will search for it. Another idea is: instead of creating a new article, to add a new section into an existing article such as Demographics of Egypt. Since there do not appear to be a lot of sources about this ethnic group it may be simpler to add a new section into that other article. That might be a better plan. Noleander (talk) 03:05, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siwi_people

Is it logical that an ethnic group such as the Siwi people, whose population is about 26,000 , has an article on the English Wikipedia based on a single source, while the Baharwa people, who are estimated to number in the millions and have different dialects, do not have an article ? Pawkl (talk) 03:13, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

I don't think it's a good idea.

I sent you sources that talk about them in detail, but I don't know why you don't like them.

Anyway, Wikipedia exists to write about topics like these so that people can learn more about communities. The absence of an article about the Baharwa on the English Wikipedia, in my opinion, is very wrong. Even if this is justified by a lack of sources, that does not mean the topic does not deserve an article at least a small one about them as a starting point, especially since there are sources that mention them in detail. Pawkl (talk) 03:26, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

sources

https://www.elwatannews.com/news/details/8219215

https://www.elwatannews.com/news/details/8220085

https://khabars7.com/105685/%d9%85%d9%86%d8%b5%d8%a9-watch-it-%d8%aa%d9%83%d8%b4%d9%81-%d8%b9%d9%86-%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%a8%d9%88%d8%b3%d8%aa%d8%b1-%d8%a7%d9%84%d8%b1%d8%b3%d9%85%d9%8a-%d9%84%d9%85%d8%b3%d9%84%d8%b3%d9%84-%d9%81/

https://www.trendreel.ae/30446

https://a5r5br.net/egypt/local-news/7306035-%D9%85%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%8A%D8%AF-%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%B6-%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%84-%D9%81%D8%AE%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%84%D8%AA%D8%A7-%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%89-%D9%82%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%A9-dmc-%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%A9-%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%B1%D9%85%D8%B6%D8%A7%D9%86-2026-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%88%D8%B7%D9%86 Pawkl (talk) 03:06, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

I also sent you sources that mention the TV series and mention Al-Baharwa directly as the inhabitants of the Nile Delta regions, including websites of major Egyptian newspapers, such as the first site, elwatan. Pawkl (talk) 03:31, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Watan_News

The newspaper elwatan has an article on the English Wikipedia and is one of the major and well-known newspapers in Egypt. Pawkl (talk) 03:35, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

You will not find books or peer-reviewed journals discussing this subject, because the term in its plural form is not used in any context, Its singular form is occasionally used by some people from southern Egypt (Sa'idi people) as a derogatory reference to people from northern Egypt.

In everyday Egyptian speech, people from northern Egypt are commonly referred to as “fallāḥīn” (farmers) a term referring to the fact that many of them historically, and even today, work in agriculture. However, like the previous term, it is often used by city residents in a derogatory way toward people from the Nile Delta. It is also not used in books or academic journals, since it is not clearly defined who exactly is meant by “fallāḥīn” or “Bahārwa”: whether it refers only to village inhabitants or to both cities and villages of the Delta, and whether it includes the northern part of the Greater Cairo urban area or the urban cities along the Suez Canal.-- Sgh45 (talk) 10:13, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

What he says is completely incorrect. The term “fellahin” in Egypt is used only to refer to farmers.

There is even an anthropological book that talks about the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and refers to them as “the fellahin of Upper Egypt.”

And it was written by the scholar Winifred S. Blackman. Pawkl (talk) 11:10, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

On the whole, I will not respond to your racist remarks because you are beneath a response; you come from a disgraced background. 😂

It is also known that you are spiteful and disruptive, and that you were banned from the Egyptian Wikipedia. You previously vandalized the Baharwa page on the Egyptian Wikipedia, which led to your ban and the page being fully protected.

https://arz.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%88%D9%87&action=history

@Noleander

Look at the history of the Baharwa page and how this vandal Al-Bawab 😂 was trying to sabotage it. Pawkl (talk) 11:21, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

@Noleander

Do not take his words seriously; he is a vandal and was expelled from the Egyptian Wikipedia. He also suffers from psychological problems, as he has no background and comes from a disgraced environment. Pawkl (talk) 12:03, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

Let me explain something to you, because this nobody used this approach only to provoke me, but I will respond with a clear answer.

First, “Baharwa” is a term used to describe the inhabitants of the Nile Delta, excluding the large cities such as Cairo and Alexandria.

In the same way, “Saʿidis” refers to the inhabitants of southern Egypt (Upper Egypt), who are generally known as the poorest and least educated population in Egypt and they are also the group that the largest number of jokes are made about, with the aim of mocking them.

So let us agree on this.

The Baharwa are divided into city dwellers and fellahin, and fellahin means farmers.

The Saʿidis are also the same; they are divided into city dwellers and fellahin.

Moreover, the term “Saʿidis” itself is relatively modern. In the past, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt were often referred to as the “fellahin of Upper Egypt.”

The anthropologist Winifred S. Blackman even wrote a book about them titled The Fellahin of Upper Egypt. Pawkl (talk) 12:17, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

Al-Baharwa are also the most religious group in Egypt and the ones who memorize the Qur’an the most. This has been attested by many Islamic scholars, such as the Syrian sheikh Ayman Suwayd, who described the Nile Delta (the regions of the Baharwa) as a blessed land because of the large number of Qur’an memorizers there.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g4zbHQ8JmGI

The Saʿidis (upper egyptian) are the poorest group in Egypt according to official statistics, and they are also known for working in the lowest-status jobs in society, such as bawab (doormen), servants, etc

and this is according to sources such as BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20098376 Pawkl (talk) 13:01, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

Regarding the article Siwi people, you can see two things:

1. There is a warning at the top of the article. The warning was placed by editors that think the article has poor sources. The warning says This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page. This article needs additional citations for verification....
2. The Siwi people has only one source. The source is okay; not great, but okay. The source is Margaret M. Vale (2015). Siwa: Jewelry, Costume, and Life in an Egyptian Oasis. American University in Cairo Press. The book is seen here https://www.google.com/books/edition/Siwa/tmpjEAAAQBAJ. The book is published by a college, but it is not a great source: the author is not a professor. The good things about the source is that (a) is is published by a college; and (b) it has the word "Siwa" in the title so it is 100% about the people (that is: the Siwa are not mentioned only in passing).

Noleander (talk) 16:06, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

@Pawkl - I have not yet seen good sources on the Al-Baharwa_people, so I think I will not create the article now. But anyone can create the article. If you want to create the article, you can click on this link: click here to create article The Wikipedia WP:Verifiability policy requires good sources (they can be in any language) that talk about the Al-Baharwa people. The sources cannot be informal websites. See WP:Reliable sources for details about source requirements. Best sources are books or articles written by professors. The sources must use the "Al-Baharwa" name (if they use another name, the article title should use the other name). If you create the article, other editors may place warnings such as "better sources needed" ... if that happens, the article may get deleted if better sources are not found. If you find good sources and create the article, you can notify me, and I'll be happy to look at the article and give you my thoughts. Noleander (talk) 16:14, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

@Noleander

I don’t know how to create articles, and I won’t create articles because I’m not an expert in this.

It doesn’t matter whether they have an article or not, my friend, and thank you for your interest in the matter.

What do you think if I create an article about them, and if someone objects, we can see what the community thinks? Pawkl (talk) 16:28, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

Yes, you can create the article yourself by clicking that link I gave above. You will have to manually type-in the article and its sources.

Another choice you have is to click this link: Wikipedia:Articles for creation, called "AfC". That is a group of volunteers that will help you create the article. That AfC page will guide you step-by-step thru the process. The first thing AfC will ask you to do is to click this link: Wikipedia:Article_wizard That is a step-by-step process that helps you build the article. After you go through those steps, a volunteer from AfC will review the article you created. It is okay if the article is small, or only has 1 or 2 sources. The most important thing will be the quality of the sources. Instructions for creating a new article are at Help:Your first article. Good luck! Noleander (talk) 16:55, 7 March 2026 (UTC)