Talk:Network Rail

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Add A Fact: "TOCs lease stations from Network Rail"

I found a fact that might belong in this article. See the quote below

Train Operating Companies (TOCs) run rail passenger services. They do this by leasing and managing stations from Network Rail.

TOCs are a customer facing part of the rail industry–working with passengers. They generally apply to the Department for Transport for franchises to runroutes, and normally lease trains from rolling stock companies.

The fact comes from the following source:

https://www.orr.gov.uk/about/who-we-work-with/industry/train-operating-companies

Here is a wikitext snippet to use as a reference:

 {{Cite web |title=Train operating companies {{!}} Office of Rail and Road |url=https://www.orr.gov.uk/about/who-we-work-with/industry/train-operating-companies |website=www.orr.gov.uk |access-date=2024-12-26 |language=en |quote=Train Operating Companies (TOCs) run rail passenger services. They do this by leasing and managing stations from Network Rail.  TOCs are a customer facing part of the rail industry–working with passengers. They generally apply to the Department for Transport for franchises to runroutes, and normally lease trains from rolling stock companies.}} 

This post was generated using the Add A Fact browser extension.

EdNg07 (talk) 18:08, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Flooding on main line between Derby and Nottingham

are you aware the flood zone in Draycott has been changed and what effect will building 190 homes on the west of Draycott 86.2.53.202 (talk) 12:46, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

What does that have to do with the article? Danners430 (talk) 13:14, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

Edit conflict. Probably we should have just deleted per notforum. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 13:18, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

I wouldn’t disagree… Danners430 (talk) 13:27, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

All new build schemes are required to have a sustainable urban drainage scheme (SUDS), which means that it must capture any rainfall in excess of that which the virgin ground would have absorbed (and release it back into the water course v slowly). So it should be neutral. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 13:17, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

Great British Railways

Shouldn't this say network rail is defunct, because as I understand, Network Rail has been absorbed by Great British Railways. 2A00:23C8:6F1E:2401:317B:7292:13A6:988F (talk) 14:30, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

Good question. It won't be setup legally until next year. For now "Shadow Great British Railways" is preparing the way. 10mmsocket (talk) 14:32, 5 July 2025 (UTC)

reverted edit

At this edit, Editor Danners430 reverted my edit with the edit summary: Unexplained removal of parameters.

I came to this article because of this citation (permalink):

{{cite web |url= http://publishing.yudu.com/Ay1g7/railstaffdec08/resources/20.htm |work=Railstaff |title=Track Safety |website=Railway People |date=December 2008 |access-date=27 January 2017 |url-status=live |archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20160304084638/http://publishing.yudu.com/Ay1g7/railstaffdec08/resources/20.htm |archive-date=4 March 2016 }}

"Track Safety". Railway People. December 2008. Archived from the original on 4 March 2016. Retrieved 27 January 2017. {{cite web}}: More than one of |work= and |website= specified (help)

That template uses both of |work=Railstaff and |website=Railway People. Those two cs1|2 parameters are equal aliases of each other so a single template using both is an error condition. The original url in that citation is dead as are all of the archived snapshots that I tried at archive.org. So, because Railstaff appears to be some sort of magazine, I deleted |website=Railway People, converted the template from {{cite web}} to {{cite magazine}}, and changed |work=Railstaff to |magazine=Railstaff. Because the original url is dead and the archived snapshots yielded nothing, I deleted |archive-date=, |archive-url=, and |url-status=. I then added a {{dead link}} template:

{{cite magazine |url= http://publishing.yudu.com/Ay1g7/railstaffdec08/resources/20.htm |magazine=Railstaff |title=Track Safety |date=December 2008 |access-date=27 January 2017}}{{dead link|date=March 2026}}

"Track Safety". Railstaff. December 2008. Retrieved 27 January 2017.

Other stuff I did elsewhere in the article is: renamed |archiveurl= and |archivedate= to their canonical (hyphenated) forms; deleted |url-status=dead because that parameter / value pair serves no purpose; renamed |orig-year= to to its canonical form |orig-date=; applied {{format ISBN}} to unhyphenated ISBN values; and replaced curly quotes per MOS:CURLY.

Enumerating all of these changes in a single edit summary is not possible nor is it practical. A simple inspection of the diff and the rendering of that version of the article will show that I did nothing to damage the article. Editor Danners430 should restore my edit.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:39, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

There's a number of things I disagree with you on here:

• Deletion of "url-status=dead" - yes it doesn't affect how a citation is rendered, but it's useful to editors in indicating that a url has indeed been confirmed to be dead. It's far from unheard of for editors to add archives despite a URL still being live, so that parameter is still useful. This was the primary reason for the rv.
• Formatting of ISBNs - CS1 templates handle ISBN formatting already, so there's no need to override this.

It's those two that I objected to - I have no objection to the other fixes, however when scrolling through the massive diff I never even got to them. Danners430 _{tweaks made} 19:44, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

When |archive-url= is present, we want to assert the live status of the original url when it is a live url. When we omit |url-status=live, we confirm, and the template will presume, that the original url is a dead url. There is no need to confirm and assert by proclamation that a dead url is a dead url.

cs1|2 does not do ISBN formatting; see this simplified example from this article:

{{cite report |date=February 2025 |title=A railway fit for Britain's future |publisher=[[Government of the United Kingdom]] |isbn= 9781528652971}}

A railway fit for Britain's future (Report). Government of the United Kingdom. February 2025. ISBN 9781528652971. ← ISBN is not formatted

By adding {{Format ISBN}}, the ISBN will be rendered properly hyphenated until AnomieBOT gets around to substing {{Format ISBN}}:

{{cite report |date=February 2025 |title=A railway fit for Britain's future |publisher=[[Government of the United Kingdom]] |isbn= {{Format ISBN|9781528652971}}}}

A railway fit for Britain's future (Report). Government of the United Kingdom. February 2025. ISBN 978-1-5286-5297-1. ← ISBN is formatted; this one will not be substed by AnomieBOT (|nosubst=true)

Where did you get the notion that cs1|2 does ISBN formatting? If that is written someplace at en.wiki, we need to find it and correct it.

Please restore my edit.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:32, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

I've literally just stated why having url-status=dead is useful for editors - it confirms that the url has been confirmed as dead by another editor.

No, I will not restore your edit wholesale because of the above mentioned disagreements. As I stated before I have no objection to the other changes you've made - but I am not restoring your unnecessary removal of useful parameters. Danners430 _{tweaks made} 22:43, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

Very well, the current state of the article is on you.

You did not answer my question: Where did you get the notion that cs1|2 does ISBN formatting? Please answer the question.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:03, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

If {{Format ISBN}} is used inside <ref>...</ref> tags, AnomieBOT cannot subst it even if |nosubst=true is absent, see Help:Substitution#Limitation. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:46, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

You are mistook. I have put the above example inside of <ref>...</ref> tags (without |nosubst=true). AnomieBOT should get to this talk page within an hour or so of the timestamp of this posting.

References

Ok, usually within an hour. The TemplateSubster bot appears to be sleeping; hasn't subst'd {{Format ISBN}}, or anything else it seems, since 12 March (@Anomie?). Here's an edit the bot made on that day: Special:Diff/1343141032. AnomieBOT can and does subst templates inside of <ref>...</ref> tags.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:36, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

All that AnomieBOT does (see User:AnomieBOT/docs/TemplateSubster#How it works) is replace {{Format ISBN|9781528652971}} with {{subst:Format ISBN|9781528652971|subst=subst:}}. Now, if I put that exact code inside ref tags I get this: which is not what we want at all. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:20, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

It does that to get the substed text (via action=parse), but it manually inserts the result into the wikitext which avoids that particular problem. Anomie⚔ 11:41, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

I thought I had done the change from cl_to to cl_target_id, but apparently either I didn't or I missed a few. Should be fixed now. Anomie⚔ 11:40, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

Yep, seems to be working again; at this edit the bot subst'd my example. Thank you.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:54, 16 March 2026 (UTC)

References