Talk:Maye Musk

Drawing of Maye Musk

Contemporary drawing of Maye musk

User:Hogyncymru, are you the artist Rhŷn Williams who created this work? It says you claim it as your "own work" in the license. -- GreenC 15:02, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

User:GreenC, My identity has been verified via Wikimedia Commons where the art was uploaded , to further verify the work, here is a Link to another piece of my art (which can also be found here on my website).. on the same website, you can find the drawing of Maye here.. regards. Hogyncymru (talk) 16:15, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Alright, well I saw you were the one who added it to the article, and twice restored it after a revert. It makes me feel a bit uncomfortable because the drawing is inherently a COI. Personally I would rather see an actual photo of her interacting in real life supported by text in the article, we already have a head shot in the info box. No offense, I am no art expert, but I'm not sure this drawing is good enough for the prime real estate of the Wiki article; it has no notability; nothing supporting it in the text of the article; pictures are not supposed to merely decorate the article. Those are the con arguments. On the pro side I could see arguments that this is an open source drawing and why not. In balance I think the con arguments are stronger. -- GreenC 17:43, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, however, unlike a photograph, a work of art is an (abstract) language which is reflective of the artist's mind whilst studying the subject at hand, therefore, having a member of public interoperate her through the arts is important as it portrays the person in a different light. Hogyncymru (talk) 19:05, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Glad you agree. You are a disclosed named artist it's not anonymous ("member of the public"). I believe this is too COI and for other reasons will remove it. If you still disagree I am willing to have an RfC to see what others think, it's pretty simple question "Should this picture be in the article?". -- GreenC 03:22, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Wait so you said "I could see arguments that this is an open source drawing and why not." but then turn around and removed it? why not do the other way around, leave it up and then discuss whether to keep it up? feel free to submit it.. however, the art is not named under the displayed drawing on her page which is why I left it out in the first place. Hogyncymru (talk) 13:19, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

@Hogyncymru: You know if you would fill out Wikipedia:Declaration of consent for all enquiries and send it to VRT what just happened at Commons would not of. Just saying. - FlightTime (open channel) 19:23, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

I hope you don't use 'would not of' when you edit articles. Hogyncymru (talk) 20:20, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

References

american by birth!

as her father was an american living abroad, she should have had american citizenship from the gitgo. what happened? 2601:18A:807C:1C40:FD16:65BB:A517:F3AD (talk) 01:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Likely didn't meet the US residency requirements of jus sanguinis citizenship. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 00:02, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

"5 years in the US, at least 2 of which after the age of 14"

hmmm. so basically anyone who moves abroad before age 16 loses the ability to pass US citizenship along?

i did not know that! (nor do most people, i believe)

thanks for pointing out. ~2026-52163-0 (talk) 22:49, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

Treating dubious claims as fact

Currently the article reads: "In 1979, she divorced Errol Musk. Two years later, Elon, who was about 10 at the time, decided to live with his father, as he had the Encyclopaedia Britannica and a computer, things which Maye could not afford to give the children as a single parent." The source for this information is an interview with Maye herself. It seems unlikely to be true. She was from a wealthy family of venture capitalists who divorced a tremendously wealthy man. Whatever the reason Elon went to live with his father, it wasn't because she couldn't afford an encyclopedia or a computer. Can we at least add a "Maye has claimed" or something?Ordinary Person (talk) 11:05, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Uh.. I was unaware she was well off during that period. How are you concluding this, speculation based on circumstances? I'm not convinced. I can spin a different story - that her parents only gave her a minimum allowance not to spoil her, and she did not get much from the divorce. This is speculation also BTW. This is why we follow what the sources say and unless you have some real evidence that clearly demonstrates reason to be skeptical there is no reason to think she is lying. There is also no history of her lying about her past. -- GreenC 14:14, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

Focus on father

The article has taken a turn to focusing on Maye's father, specifically negative aspects of his past. This is undue WP:WEIGHT. See the two paragraphs added here: Special:Diff/1272110323/1272113139 It is also something of a BLP problem to highlight negative aspects of a relation in a BLP, where the full context of that other person's life can not be fully extrapolated and understood, it's criticism by association. -- GreenC 14:50, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

The sentences were added for balance due to an NPOV label as otherwise the description of her father was somewhat hagiographic. Three sentences in a much larger section is not "undue weight", its NPOV and balance. Wellington Bay (talk) 15:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

There is no hagiography there, and anyway you don't add negative things to "balance" perceived positive things, it doesn't work that way, this is a common misconception of how NPOV works. -- GreenC 15:20, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

It's also not BLP as Haldeman is dead - the notion that BLP applies to deceased relatives is overreach. Wellington Bay (talk) 15:21, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm sorry but to mention her father without mentioning his very *public* support for apartheid or antisemitism would be a glaring omission and a whitewash. Wellington Bay (talk) 15:24, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

You can be "sorry", but this is a BLP article. Maye Musk is alive. You are painting her in a negative light by associating negative actions of her father, who she had no control over, with an excessive amount of material in the article. -- GreenC 15:35, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

The problem is the article depicts a distorted picture of Haldeman by portraying him as an "adventurer" and omitting his very public and enthusiastic support for apartheid and his public defence of antisemitism. This is a violation of NPOV and completely unbalanced. Wellington Bay (talk) 16:27, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Fortunately this article is not about Haldeman. This type of thing happens all the time, where the relative of one person did something bad, then someone adds that bad thing into the relatives BLP, which makes them look bad by association. The text infers, it is innuendo. If you can find sources that make a connection, that Maye herself was influenced by her father's racism (positively or negatively), that would be different. -- GreenC 16:46, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

An article about the son or daughter of a Nazi would mention "his/her father was a supporter of the Nazis" not as "innuendo" but as a fact. There's no mention for this article not to mention that Musk's father was pro-apartheid. Wellington Bay (talk) 16:50, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Yeah but you were doing more than a mention. It is time to flag this for more attention: Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Maye_Musk -- GreenC 17:05, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

The relevant BLP policy is WP:GUILT: "Guilt by association is never a sufficient reason to include negative information about third parties in a biography. At a minimum, there should be reliable sources showing a direct relationship between the conduct of the third parties and the conduct of the subject (i.e. a nexus), or that the subject knew or should have known about and could have prevented the conduct of the third parties." If there are sources that show a direct relation between the conduct of her father and herself, fine, but simply being associated with him is not sufficient reason to include negative material about him in her BLP. -- GreenC 18:58, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

the whole family comes from antisemites and apartheid supporters. you guys are doing a good job of hiding the fact her father was an antisemite and pro apartheid. Given her current support of fascist policies in the US I wonder how many editors that are trying to white wash her are employees of Elon Musk. This is bullshit I came here to read this JUST to get a better idea of her background, how her parents might have influenced her but certain editors here made sure I would not learn that from the article.

How many of you work for or are associate with Elon Musk? 2603:8081:8700:2732:6C7B:555E:6E0:7603 (talk) 19:55, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Actually I created and wrote most of the "Politics" section, which is the complete opposite of white washing. The problem is the original contributor was taking things too far with excessive material making the article look like a hit piece, and they were unable to tie the actions of the father with the daughter, which is required to justify including this kind of material per WP:GUILT. So your job is not to attack editors, but find reliable sources that show a clear relationship beyond circumstantial. -- GreenC 00:40, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

It's not "guilt by association", it's simply stating a basic fact about who her father was. — Red XIV ^(talk) 07:10, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Fortunately this is an article who Maye Musk is, and without a source that draws a direct connection between the conduct of her father and Maye (ie. a nexus) it's not notable. Write a bio of her father and link to it, sounds like he was notable (it does not expire). -- GreenC 15:51, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Her father already has an article, which this one links to. The issue is that this article includes a description of her father that highly distorts who he was by excluding his pro-Apartheid activism. — Red XIV ^(talk) 04:59, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

How are her father's political views relevant to this article, what is the "nexus"? No doubt your own parents have done things or have views you might disagree with or find embarrassing. Would you want that highlighted in a brief bio about yourself? -- GreenC 18:06, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

The fact that he was a political activist is very important to even a brief description of who the man was. His primary career was as a politician, both before and after he moved to South Africa. This would be like if (for example) the Chelsea Clinton article didn't mention that her parents were Democrats. — Red XIV ^(talk) 23:27, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

You two have been around long enough to know to reach consensus before adding contentious material which concerns living persons. Reverted to status quo ante and article full protected. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 17:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)