Talk:List of national flags of sovereign states

Requested move 10 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Discussion here came down not so much towards disagreement with the interpretation of relevant policy, but rather with the scope of the article. Support arguments were largely based on WP:CONCISE and WP:CONSISTENT, with List of national anthems. However, oppose arguments raised questions to whether "national flags" is sufficiently precise as users noted the flags of Greenland, England, Wales, etc. are also national flags not included here. For that reason, the alternative option "List of flags of sovereign states" was also proposed. Between the three options (as nominated, alternate, and current titles), I find there is no clear consensus in favor of any of them. I would (strongly) suggest a discussion about the scope of this article (ie. whether it should be focused on national flags, or those of sovereign states) before another move request, but no prejudice against opening a new request before then. (closed by non-admin page mover) estar8806 (talk) ★ 02:30, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

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List of national flags of sovereign states → List of national flagsList of national flags – 1. To be consistent with List of national anthems.

2. This is the most concise way of titling the list. (WP:CONCISE)

3. In general English usage, "national flag" refers to the flag of a country, which we consider synonymous with "sovereign state" in the article. Therefore it should be clear that flags of stateless nations are not included. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 22:22, 10 September 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 04:44, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• Weak support per WP:concise.

𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 23:56, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Mostly oppose

The flags of England, Scotland, Wales are "national flags".

The flag of the Isle of Man is sometimes described as a national flag.

https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/im.html

The flag of Greenland is sometimes described as a national flag.

https://www.worldatlas.com/flags/greenland

I don't think these flags should be included but I do think the clarity in the title is worthwhile.

I would support List of national flags redirecting to List of national flags of sovereign states DotCoder (talk) 10:54, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support It's important to be concise, and it's perfectly standard and appropriate not to have all the inclusion criteria in the title. It would still be fine to then say in the body that the list is for sovereign states, regardless of who uses the term "national". Reywas92^Talk 13:44, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

• Weak Oppose either include all national flags (including Greenland, Panama, Curacao etc...) or stick with the precise terminology which is sovereign states. As an aside, do State of Palestine and Holy See (Vatican City) constitute sovereign states? ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 20:21, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

  Vatican City and Palestine are included by virtue of being observer states at the UN. This has been the subject of debate at List of sovereign states and consensus there is to include the observer states also. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 21:44, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

  Last nitpick, we should call it Holy See since that's the sovereign organ, while Vatican City State refers to the geographic ground, which is so tiny it does not even host embassies. But fair enough re Palestine and Holy See then. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 23:36, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

  Well, this is a list of flags of sovereign states. On the one hand, every vexillological source I've used calls it directly the flag of Vatican City, including . On the other, that is what List of sovereign states includes. On the other other hand, it's a list of flags of sovereign states, not organizations. As far as I am aware, the foremost expert on the flag is Rev. William M. Becker, who wrote a book on the flags of the Vatican and the papal states. He calls the flag the "flag of Vatican City State" and quotes the constitution of Vatican City as calling the flag the "Official Flag of Vatican City State." It is therefore my opinion we should write the entry as the flag of Vatican City and the state as Vatican City. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 23:58, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

References

• Support, there is no other page titled "list of national flags" that needs disambiguating and it is the most concise title. Di (they-them) (talk) 04:57, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose and move to List of flags of sovereign states, as with List of sovereign states, to which List of nations and List of countries are redirects. Ham II (talk) 06:12, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
• (Oppose the redirect here from Gallery of sovereign state flags) - I don't know what's happened or why you removed the excellent flag gallery you had before. Please bring back the gallery view. You can browse so much more easily. This page is essentially useless. The gallery view is the only one I need. It can be browsed very quickly, and I can click on the individual one I need. I use it for learning the flags for pub quizzes, and it has been excellent. I can click on specific ones and learn individual history lessons for interest as well, but mostly I need the browsing. IBE (talk) 17:03, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

  There was a deletion discussion regarding this which resulted in the consensus to delete the gallery. If you want the gallery view, please go to c:Sovereign-state flags on wikimedia commons. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 17:18, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support for much-needed concision. The oppose comments are all over the place, ranging from unexplained to irrelevant. Reywas92's comment above, it's perfectly standard and appropriate not to have all the inclusion criteria in the title, sums up my thoughts on most of the opposes. Toadspike [Talk] 12:32, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

  I would also support moving to List of flags of sovereign states. While it is significantly longer than "List of national flags", it is better than the current title. Toadspike [Talk] 17:28, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose and move to List of flags of sovereign states Nation is harder to define than sovereign state. There are also states that define themselves as plurinational. Multinational states also may exist. Quebec can be seen as a nation. Rolluik (talk) 18:24, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

  I understand this concern and took it into account when making my !vote above, but I think the benefits of recognizability (WP:COMMONNAME) and concision (WP:CONCISE) outweigh this semantic technicality. To a lesser extent, consistency with National flag (WP:CONSISTENT) supports the move as well. "Accuracy" is not one of the five CRITERIA. Toadspike [Talk] 18:55, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

  National flag doesn't explicitly define its scope as the flags of sovereign states in the way that this list does. Consistency with List of sovereign states would be preferable, and List of flags of sovereign states is still a concise title. Ham II (talk) 07:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Columns

Pinging @Reywas92 and @35.139.154.158, who both sent in suggestions regarding the content of the list in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gallery of sovereign state flags. I've mostly been developing the list myself up to this point so I really appreciate your inputs.

Regarding the "description" column, I just thought it made sense to explain how the flags ought to look. The CIA World Factbook is where I copied the descriptions from, with adjustments when necessary. I did not take the overall width of the list into account since my PC displayed the content normally, but I will attempt to correct this.

As for the "official usage" column, I had thought this was also necessary since Template:Infobox flag includes such a parameter. I based the format heavily on the infobox parameters since I thought they would summarize each flag well.

I've considered adding a column for "symbolism" but I'm afraid this might also take up too much space. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 18:09, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

The references have been provided for each flag so that the viewer can easily find the exact page of what I am referencing.

With regards to the distinction between flag types (civil, state, national flag, ensign, etc.), I was working with the assumption that these are well-known terms. Indeed, they each have their articles which go into more depth. It should be noted that mentions of "national flag" in this column specifically follow the vexillological definition (this definition is provided in the background section) and not "national flag" as is used in general English. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 18:20, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

While I am familiar with vexillogy, that is a bad assumption. Whether a flag is used on ships is not a detail that needs to be included. Without specification of what the differences between civil and state flags are for particular countries – and to what extent those differences are observed in practice – this just adds confusion. The article already identifies in the title that all of these are national flags, so it's redundant to list that nearly all of them are national flags, but then confusing to suggest that some aren't national flags but are state flags instead. This general list should avoid this jargon that doesn't have in-line context of flag versions and usages and that takes up table space. Reywas92^Talk 14:01, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Your argument does make sense, now that I think about it. I originally included the official usage column since such information was provided in the infobox of Znamierowski's encyclopedia and the flag infobox template, but it appears that confusion inevitably will arise considering that two different definitions are used in the article. I will remove the column shortly for this reason. But I do still need to know if additional columns such as "symbolism" should be added, could I have your opinion on this? ―Howard • 🌽³³ 15:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I think if there are any usage notes that are important, they can go in the description section. For symbolism, important symbolism can selectively be incuded in the description as well, but it's not universal or significant enough to have its own column. A lot of flags' colors are based on historical usage and don't have true symbolism, or they're something generic like blue is for water and sky. Plus it can be redundant for the description to say it has a certain element then restate that there's that element with a meaning. Reywas92^Talk 15:42, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I've removed the usage column as I said I would. Now, I have a bold idea which we could possibly include in the list. Perhaps we can use the cell color template to indicate if the flag is a part of a flag family, including but not limited to Pan-African flags, Pan-Slavic flags, Pan-Arab, or Nordic flags. If a flag is of a particular family, we will color its cell with a designated color. A legend above the list would show what designated colors mean. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 21:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I think that would be way too much clutter since there are a lot of them. And there's already a whole article with galleries of all the family members. They could be wikilinked in the descriptions where natural to mention though. Reywas92^Talk 21:06, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Designer of the current US flag

In the designer section for the current United States flag, it says it was designed by "Robert Heft", upon clicking the wikilink, it brings me to a section talking about how this is just a common myth that has been debunked. Can this be removed then? Nervelita :3🏳️‍⚧️ (talk) 12:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done: Thank you for noting this, I've now corrected the section. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 14:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, you're doing good work. Nervelita :3🏳️‍⚧️ (talk) 15:11, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Several errors and controversial classifications

Palestine is more of a defacto state. They have no control over their territory except what Israel allows.

Taiwan is the Republic of China (Taiwan). The use of "Taiwan" only may imply recognition of separatist forces on Taiwan but the Republic of China is the official name that is also recognized by several countries.

The use of UN as a judge of which list is suspect. For many years, South Korea and Switzerland were not UN members. It is foolhardy to claim that Switzerland and South Korea where not countries. Vatican City is not a member state, only an observer.

There is a spelling error which I am fixing. ErrorCorrection1 (talk) 18:07, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

The UN is not being used to judge if something is a country or not. The UN members and observers are just listed together because those are the most widely-recognized states. Other countries that are not associated with the UN are still listed as de facto. Di (they-them) (talk) 18:53, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

That's not the Taliban flag for Afghanistan. Like it or not, that's the flag anymore — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:500:8282:2360:241D:CD9B:30BB:F2A (talk) 02:38, 23 January 2025 (UTC)

Syria and Afghanistan as de facto states

Syria and Afghanistan are not de facto states; their statehood is not disputed by any country and placing them alongside Somaliland and Transnistria is not appropriate, nor is it consistent with the definition provided in the first section of this article. They are both governed by governments that have not been recognized by other countries, but there's no dispute in RS that those governments are in charge and have changed these flags, so at the very least the current flags should be displayed together alongside the defunct UN-recognized ones in the main list if editors still want to see the latter. Bolivia is one entry that already has multiple flags in the main list. We have a list of UN states as a guide of which countries are generally considered countries, it doesn't mean the UN gets to set the content about those countries (unless maybe we're talking about the List of UN member states article which also has flags). TEMPO156 (talk) 23:25, 7 February 2025 (UTC)

ok feel free to do so ―Howard • 🌽³³ 08:31, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

Flag of Transnistria

Transnistria has two official flags which are co-official. The one currently in the article and another one which is the flag of Russia but at a 1:2 ratio. 115.188.71.85 (talk) 23:43, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

 Done: Thanks for notifying. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 08:20, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Flag of Liberia

One of the designers is listed as "J.B. Russworm". This is likely a misspelling of John Brown Russwurm, the (then) governor of Liberia. I'd fix it, but the page is currently semi-protected. --Bob (talk) 20:25, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Are you sure it isn't a coincidence of similar initials? The cited source (Richardson 1959, p. 89) explicitly says that it was a woman (full passage):

The committee on the making of the flag consisted of the following ladies: Susannah Lewis (Chairman). Rachel Johnson. Mary Hunter, Sarah Draper, Collinette Teage, Matilda Newport and Mrs. J. B. Russworm. This symbol of Negro liberty was unfurled on August 24th, 1847. The day was celebrated by a parade of soldiers and civilians through the streets of Monrovia. An oration was delivered by James Spriggs Payne, who later became President of Liberia (1868-1870, his first term, and 1876-1878, his second term.

Also, the governor of Liberia wasn't John Brown Russwurm but was actually James Spriggs Payne, to whom the letter is addressed. John Russwurm was governor of the Republic of Maryland, not Liberia. Seeing that Richardson mentions and describes John Russwurm using the correct spelling of his name in the same book (p. 50), it appears to me Russwurm and Russworm are supposed to be different people. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 20:54, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

correction: "to whom the letter is addressed": this is an error in the sentence and it should be ignored. ―Howard • 🌽³³ 20:56, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

Tajikistan/Syrian Entries

Someone made an edit to the table to remove the flag of the previous Syrian government, but now the cells for Tajikistan are shifted into the wrong spot. I don’t want to undo the edit since the Syrian Ba’athist government is no longer in power after the recent Syrian civil war, and the flag officially changed back in March, but I don’t know how to fix the table either and I don’t want to break it. Can someone who knows how to edit the table fix the entry for Tajikistan? RogatkaWR (talk) 19:21, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Seems to be fixed now, thanks to whoever fixed it RogatkaWR (talk) 23:50, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Changing background color of the flags column for better visibility of white flags

I refer to the List of national flags of sovereign states article often, but there is one improvement I would suggest making. Several of the flags include white in a section of the flag that includes it's boarder. Russia is a good example. Since the background of the flag column is #FFFFFF, you can not actually see the whole flag. I was going to change the markup to start each cell with a "!" instead of a "|" which makes it grey, but that also declares it as a header, which it is not. Anyway, didn't want to mess with it and felt that it would be better get some level of consensus. Thank you.  • Bobsd •  (talk) 21:17, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

Kalmar Union

You say the Danish flag is the oldest flag still in use.

Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, Norway and Finland were united under the Kalmar Union (1397-1523) which had a red cross on yellow bottom. Both the Swedish and the Danish flags existed before and after the Kalmar Union. Why have it looking like the Swedish flag was a 20th century thing? It only re-emerged after the break-up with Norway (and the Swedish-Norwegian Union Flag, but was Swedish flag even during that union (Like the British Union Jack) Consistent would be to recognize both the Swedish and the Danish flag to the end of the Kalmar Union. ~2026-12917-4 (talk) 08:47, 7 January 2026 (UTC)

Honduras

Honduras has reverted their flag to the older dark blue in 2026. The references need to be updated. I edited the description but I need someone to check the references and replace them with newer ones where needed. CatrachoWave504 (talk) 04:23, 12 February 2026 (UTC)

"The UN recognized the Taliban"

I accidentally hit enter before I was done writing my summary. I'm wondering if this is a serious comment because I find it hard to imagine actually thinking that. In any case it will take more than a single undiscussed driveby edit to undo the consensus we have here and at flag of Afghanistan that both are still meaningful. TEMPO156 (talk) 20:35, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

The justification of the current inclusion in text is not about the UN specifically, but "the flag of the defunct Islamic Republic of Afghanistan continues to be used in some contexts, mostly outside Afghanistan". Presumably this refers to embassies, etc., as well as sports, where the flag continues to serve as a national flag in a context alongside other flags in this list. CMD (talk) 03:37, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

I wrote all that. Not sure what your point is. I just reverted the IP edit who made the false claim the UN credentialed the Taliban and used that to justify removing the IRA flag entirely. TEMPO156 (talk) 06:10, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

Civil flag of Nicaragua and North Korea Adjustment

Nicaragua more recently adopted a red and black flag for their civil flag, and North Korea adjusted the proportions of their design a couple months ago. ~2026-28509-86 (talk) 17:18, 11 May 2026 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 June 2026

The time flag honduras was adopted changed from 1949 to 27 January 2026 Notjake234 (talk) 18:25, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want made. Day Creature (talk) 19:04, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

Aspect ratio for Nicaragua's new red-and-black flag

What should be written for the aspect ratio of Nicaragua's Rojinegra? Wolvefy 7150 (talk) 18:38, 8 June 2026 (UTC)

Natonal

= National ?~2026-32542-29 (talk) 09:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC)

 Done. The spelling error has been fixed; thank you for contributing. TEMPO156 (talk) 00:00, 20 June 2026 (UTC)

Where is the flag of Scotland?

I looked at all the flags, but Scotland seems to be missing. Anyone know why? ~2026-36411-03 (talk) 21:21, 22 June 2026 (UTC)

Scotland is not a sovereign state but instead a Constituent country inside of the United Kingdom, for more info see Countries of the United Kingdom PharaohCrab speak𓀁 works𓀨 22:54, 22 June 2026 (UTC)