Talk:Languages of Palestine

This page is subject to the extended confirmed restriction related to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Hebrew is a recognized language?

Highly doubt it. BenjaminKay (talk) 06:08, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

May 2026

I’ve been looking at this article and think it may need some cleanup to better fit Wikipedia’s guidelines, especially around scope, structure, sourcing, and balance between historical and contemporary language use.

I’m not proposing a specific rewrite yet, but I’d appreciate guidance on where others think the article should start, should it be framed mainly around the modern State of Palestine and the Palestinian territories, or more broadly as a historical overview of languages in the region?

I’m happy to work from whatever scope the page consensus favors.LumenArchivorum (talk) 21:30, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

Following up on the scope question raised above, I’ve spent some time reviewing comparable articles on languages in regions with complex historical contexts, as well as the current set of language-related articles connected to Palestine.

Based on this, I would lean toward framing the article as “languages of the region of Palestine,” understood in a historical-geographical sense rather than being limited to the modern State of Palestine or Palestinian territories. This approach would allow coverage of linguistic developments across different periods while maintaining links to more specific articles (per summary style).

As some time has passed since the initial discussion, 21:30, 24 May 2026, I’m starting to make incremental edits in this direction, focusing on improving structure and aligning the content with this broader scope. These changes are intended to remain consistent with existing material while organizing it more clearly.

Of course, I’m happy to adjust if there are objections or alternative approaches, input on defining the geographic and temporal scope in the lead would be especially helpful. LumenArchivorum (talk) 18:46, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

Hi Lumen,

This edit removed information on Palestinian refugee dialects. It is easily sourced, and I can do that shortly. Just want to make sure you understand this article is part of the Outline of Palestine articles, belonging to Palestine. I welcome the addition of historical information on what languages were spoken in the geographic region too, but it includes information on Palestinians too because the state represents its people in exile as well. Tiamut (talk) 04:22, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Hello User:Tiamut,

Thank you for your input. If you have reliably sourced text to add, please feel free to include it. I will continue editing gradually so there is time to discuss details, as this is a sensitive topic.

Regarding the sentence I removed, I did not find it added encyclopedic value, and it appeared to be unsupported. The general point that dialects change in diaspora contexts is well known, but without specific sourcing or clear relevance to this article, it may not meet inclusion standards.

On scope, I agree that the article should cover the languages of the region of Palestine across time, and that at the same time, it is important that modern Palestinian linguistic realities are accurately and proportionately represented to ensure balance and reliability. LumenArchivorum (talk) 17:35, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Just to ensure we are on the same page about the scope, I changed the introductory paragraph to reflect how I see the topic. This scope is drawn from the sources I cited below. Let me know what you think. Tiamut (talk) 18:52, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

We are on the same page regarding that it concerns the history of the region of Palestine, from ancient periods to the present. As we fill the article with more RS supported text over time, we'll keep modifying the lead to reflect the article best as we go along. Why let perfection be the enemy of improvement? LumenArchivorum (talk) 19:20, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Before I go, in this edit emphasising how essential it is to connect Palestinian Arabic to its wider geographical context, you added a source that supports the sentence you deleted about refugee dialect variations. I understand you have now changed your mind about including any historical context and that NorthernWinds also categorically rejects any in-depth discussion of the development of Palestinian Arabic, particularly historically, as outside the scope of this article. But you should then at least restore and cite the sentence you deleted to the source you added.

Also, the new introduction you have crafted here, links to Basic Law, which is a general page unrelated to Palestinian law.

I hope these observations have not disturbed you in your efforts to collaboratively build this article. Goodbye, and good luck!Tiamut (talk) 07:27, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

While I support Tiamut's suggestions above, I do think this page needs to decide whether it's about the state of Palestine or the region of Palestine. If it's about the state, the scope would be since the oslo accord + background from the British mandate onward. If it's about the region, it should have a cutoff point at 1948 and have a separate article for languages of the Palestinians/languages of the state of Palestine. I'm certain that a page for the region would have a lot of sources but I doubt that a page for the state of Palestine will differ much from Palestinian Arabic NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 08:38, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

I don't understand the logic of beginning the history of languages of the State of Palestine with the British Mandate. The state was erected in the same geographic region and by the same people who have always lived in Palestine (region). Are you saying they have no linguistic history prior to Western colonization? Tiamut (talk) 09:03, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

I do think that the state of Palestine had no linguistic history prior to its existence. That's why I proposed putting this in the background section.

The background section is meant to help the reader understand the main topic of the article; it's not a place for general history. Since currently two countries have a piece of Palestine, Israel and Palestine, it would make a lot more sense to centralize the discussion of languages in the area to one unified article. That article will be the linguistic history of both Israel and Palestine. If we had one unified page for both the region and the state, that would mean that at some point we arbitrarily exclude Israel and Jews from being discussed here despite them being in the region of Palestine.

For the sake of clarity, I'll clarify that I support splitting this page NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 10:06, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Which sources support your view that these are separate topics? I have listed below that show the main language spoken today in the State of Palestine is influenced by the entire linguistic profile of the region of Palestine. It is nonsensical to split off that linguistic history. Israel's linguistic history is very different, as you know (Revival of the Hebrew language, Biblical Hebrew ceased being a spoken language in Palestine in the 2nd century CE). We write and scope articles according to how sources deal with them. Tiamut (talk) 10:23, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

The region of Palestine is not the same as the state of Palestine and there's no need to source that.

It is nonsensical to split off that linguistic history We are ensuring that we are not changing our definition of "Palestine" in the middle of the article. Doing so would be problematic. The revival of Hebrew is very much a part of the history of languages in Palestine; the revival quite literally happened in Palestine. The first native speaker in modern times was in fact born in Jerusalem, Palestine. NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 19:18, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Hi NorthernWinds

I agree with you about your general assessment yet I believe it is interesting to include a section on the current linguistic landscape, though I hear you on that we need to be careful not to do double work in articles so to say. It can be arranged with exerts, shorter sections with brief summary and a link to the relevant article, or as a see also. I believe we can balance both the concerns of both User:Tiamut and yourself. LumenArchivorum (talk) 17:55, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Yes. This article should be split in a similar fashion to Linguistic history of India and Languages of India. The two can include content from each other, but they should be separate pages. NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 19:09, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

I have no objection to an article on the Linguistic history of Palestine, a summary of which can be included here. Tiamut (talk) 19:18, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Sure, I don't oppose that NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 19:18, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Compared with established India-related language articles, this page is still at an early stage of development and currently has far fewer reliable sources and much less text. For that reason, I think we should continue expanding it here rather than considering a split yet.

Given the current amount of content, it may be more appropriate to incorporate (merge) relevant material into existing articles rather than creating a new standalone page. I would prefer to continue developing this article further before considering a split or a merge, particularly as it still has significant room for expansion.

There appears to be agreement that the scope should cover the languages of the region of Palestine across its history, from ancient periods to the present. With that in mind, it seems best to continue building this article in that direction. LumenArchivorum (talk) 19:50, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

I don't think this should be the scope of this article. It may be mentioned in brief in the background as Tiamut suggested but the page should ultimately be about the state of Palesitne NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 20:10, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

If the scope is languages in the modern state of Palestine the article needs work in that direction, and so to if the scope is languages of the territory Palestine. I'm happy to move in either direction, as long as we improve it together. LumenArchivorum (talk) 20:30, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Had some time to ponder. Let's focus on the languages of the State of Palestine, that would be comparable to articles such as Languages of Sweden, rather than broader regional overviews like Languages of Scandinavia.

While there is certainly linguistic value in examining the wider historical and regional context, a state-focused approach is still very useful and appropriate, particularly for students.

Given the points raised, especially about that this article's original scope was Languages of the state of Palestine, a compromise would be to center the article on the modern State of Palestine while including a concise background section addressing the historical and regional linguistic context. This approach would allow us to accommodate both perspectives without overextending the article’s scope.

I really appreciate the input from both of you. LumenArchivorum (talk) 21:00, 11 June 2026 (UTC)

I merged the Overview and History sections, and moved the information that was in thr Overview to its own section entitled "Hebrew" because that is what is was all about actually. I have begun adding information using the sources I compiled below. I think the Languages section is the right place for. brief overview paragraph summarizing the official, in use, and minority language situation. I won't make the History section too big, and confine it to its relevance to the context of this page. A longer article Linguistic history of Palestine is definitely needed. Tiamut (talk) 05:08, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Okey, some of it is a big improvement, however, I am afraid it became more unclear if the article about the languages of the region of Palestine or if it is about the languages of the state of Palestine. I will work on making the cope clearer over the day, good to see the article improving. LumenArchivorum (talk) 07:55, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Should also mention that Palestinian Arabic is a dialect, not a language, you changed the text I wrote about it being a dialect to it being a language. Let keep the article focused on the state of Palestine and let's be careful with terminology. LumenArchivorum (talk) 07:58, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Hello. I don't see where I called Palestinian Arabic a language. Please correct it if so.

I began with the history section (and the history of language development in Palestine is rather long) so obviously it will appear more weighted to that subject at present. But I believe I have stayed precisely in the scope of this page, discussing only the history relevant to Palestine/Palestinian Arabic. Tiamut (talk) 08:21, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Palestinian Arabic is not in the scope of this article. This article is about language usage, not the languages and their effects on each other NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 08:27, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Arabic and Palestinian Arabic are the official and primary language and dialect of the state. It is rather silly to claim they are "not the scope". Tiamut (talk) 08:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Their usage and status is in scope, not their development. Their development is for History of languages in Palestine NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 08:32, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

I disagree. Their usage historically is relevant to this page. And there are other articles in this series of Wikipedia articles that include History sections, like Languages of Iraq and Languages of Egypt for example. Tiamut (talk) 08:37, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

The history section in languages of Iraq doesn't talk about the development of these languages since that's irrelevant to the scope of the page, which is language usage and status in Iraq. Likewise, this page shouldn't do that either NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 08:42, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Neither does languages of Egypt's history section talk about the development of the languages NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 08:47, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

And? The sources discussing language use in Palestine see fit to recall historical language use and development. I don't see a valid reason to exclude that from this page. Tiamut (talk) 08:54, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

The sources currrently cited are Hebrew and Aramaic Substrata in Spoken Palestinian Arabic, Aramaic: Lingua Franca, Koine, or Both?, Arabo-Aramaic And 'Arabiyya: From Ancient Arabic To Early Standard Arabic, 200 Ce–600 Ce, Multilingualism and Diglossia in the Ancient Near East, Arabic Christianity in the Monasteries of Ninth-Century Palestine, Lexical Component in the Aramaic Substrate of Palestinian Arabic, Languages from the World of the Bible, Language in Ancient Syria-Palestine and Arabia: an introduction and Masalha's section is called Intellectual Elites and Multilingual Environments: Byzantine and Early Islamic Palestine.

None of these sources are about the state of Palestine. In fact, all of them (all except Masalha) don't even discuss the state of Palestine, which means they were knowingly chosen to discuss things that are unrelated to the modern state, which means unrelated to the scope of this article. Please remove what you have added NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 13:43, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

NorthernWinds, as I said above, it is silly to claim that Palestinian Arabic is outside the scope of this article, as it is the primary spoken dialect in the State of Palestine. And ehen this source, for example writes: "The term ‘Palestinian Arabic’ (hereafter PA) designates several socially heterogeneous dialect groups. Scholarly research traditionally divides PA into three such groups, spoken by town-dwellers, villagers, and Bedouin.1 Each of these dialect groups displays religious and/or geographical variations. PA is spoken by a variety of religious groups: Muslims, Christians, Druze, and Samaritans." - It is obviously discussing language use in the State of Palestine. In fact in refers to Palestine (without "State of") because it is commonly called that way too. Your demand is akin to saying no sources that fail to specify "State of Israel" can be used there. Tiamut (talk) 13:58, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

This source is great for establishing that Palestinian Arabic should be mentioned here as a spoken language, but less useful for defending the inclusion of sentences like Other ancient languages that influenced Arabic and contemporary Palestinian Arabic (and Levantine Arabic) dialects are Canaanite, Classical Hebrew (Biblical and Mishnaic Hebrew), Persian, Classical Greek (Koine) and Latin. There is a difference between using "Palestine" as a place name (not in scope) and as a state name (the scope). I doubt that sources called Arabic Christianity in the Monasteries of Ninth-Century Palestine refer to the state of Palestine (it didn't exist).

I am not demanding anything. I simply attacked your argument and as I demonstrated, it does not hold water. Pleaser revert your additions NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 14:20, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

No. There are several other sources cited (& listed but as yet uncited below) that attest to the relevance and pertinence of the history of language use to the present use of languages in Palestine. I am not undoing everything I added, which was encouraged by this very discussion above. Tiamut (talk) 14:25, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

The sources here are all that is cited in the article. Perhaps you misunderstood the discussion, but I don't think anyone encouraged discussing the history of Palestine's Arabic. NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 14:30, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Take it to WP:RSN or wherever else you want to, to receive an outside opinion about the applicability of these sources to this article. I did not misunderstand anything. Lumen even wanted to transform the whole article into a history one. We agreed a summary would suffice. My perspective on its length and content differs from yours. Tiamut (talk) 14:36, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

No, I wanted us to make a clear choice of the scope of the article. Either focus on the modern state - Palestine, or a focus on the region - Palestine. We had a discussion the three of us and Northen Winds had the best arguments, and kept a calm and respectful tone.

I have no strong feelings on which direction to go, could become a good article either way, currently it is not a good article, the most important thing is that we improve it together through consensus directed by the best RS.

The scope as decided now is Languages of (the state of) Palestine, which will include a short summary history section with links to relevant articles. LumenArchivorum (talk) 05:13, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

Hi Lumen. I understood that already, as expressed to you here. The content disagreement between you and me primarily centers around what "short summary" means. Given the long history of language development in Palestine, and inherent to Palestinian Arabic itself, I feel it needs a few paragraphs, not just one. I would also note that the Overview section you composed, and that I recently added to, spoke about the importance of discussing Palestinian Arabic in its geographic context. Its historical context is just as important and a source of copious scholarship, as you can see from the sources I listed in the Sources section. Tiamut (talk) 06:57, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

You're welcome! Unfortunately I can't help you further while respecting Tiamut's request. It does seem like recent edits disregard the scope we've decided on. Hopefully this will be sorted NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 08:17, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

The scope we agreed on included a history section. Tiamut (talk) 09:25, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

We previously agreed to include a concise summary history section and to limit the scope to the modern State of Palestine; however, the current version does not reflect those points. In addition, parts of the text appear to deviate from a neutral point of view (NPOV).

Could we please return to a consensus-based approach and ensure that agreed changes are implemented and discussed before further revisions? LumenArchivorum (talk) 10:06, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

We agreed to a summary history section. Given the long history of language use in Palestine, four paragraphs is hardly long (and I have omitted much information I would rather like to include but will save for the longer article focusing on the Linguistic history in general).

I will note the changes you made to the article were not previously outlined here in detail, and I did not revert them, even though I found some of them problematic.

You are welcome to raise specific objections to the content of the text I have added. I cannot infer what you find to be lacking in NPOV. Tiamut (talk) 10:14, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

If you prefer to make a bold edit that alters my addition in a way that you believe brings it closer to the NPOV version you are envisioning, I also encourage you to do that. I can then build on that version, or if I find it to be unacceptably POV in toto, revert it and bring it here for discussion point by point. Tiamut (talk) 10:21, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

By "in brief" I meant one paragraph max and you turned it into what is now almost half the body, and you discussed the development of Palestinian Arabic, not what this article is about, which is languages used in the state of Palestine (or, in the "history" section, language use and status in the region of Palestine) NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 13:54, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Writing about historical language use necessarily entails how it developed. I am not making up the connections included here. They are in the literature itself. I listed all the sources I was going to use in thr section entitled "Sources" here. I am not sure why you are so upset about these additions. The article was in a sorry state and it is much improved now, though there is still so much to add about the present day language situation, particularly about Hebrew and English which many sources I listed discuss in detail. Tiamut (talk) 14:09, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Writing about historical language use necessarily entails how it developed We are not writing about the languages, we are writing about their usage in Palestine. They are in the literature itself Well yea, you cited literature that specifically talk about this.

I'm not upset about anything. The article did not improve in these areas I am criticizing but actually degraded, as it now hosts irrelevant information that the reader is not looking for NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 14:25, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Arabic is the official language of the State of Palestine. It is a diglossic language, and the most common colloquial spoken form used in Palestine is Palestinian Arabic. A brief discussion of how these languages came to be used is in order. There is nothing strange or undue about it, and the long history of language use and development in the region is mentioned by multiple sources who discuss it in the context of present day language use too. Tiamut (talk) 14:52, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

I have reverted the article back to its state prior to my recent additions. Tiamut (talk) 16:37, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

I recommend that you only edit article's where you can remain neutral, seems you are too personally attached to this subject, but grateful you finally concede so we can go back to editing calmly. Let's leave it behind us and look forward to better times. LumenArchivorum (talk) 16:51, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

And I recommend you learn to comment on content (and be specific in your critique), not contributors. For now, I am disengaging from this article, and not because I think my edits are indefensible or wrong. But for other reasons that cannot be expressed on the article talk page, as they unrelated to article content. Goodbye. Tiamut (talk) 17:21, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

If an editor's behavior is in of its self a problem, it is correct to comment on it. That is why we have ArbCom. LumenArchivorum (talk) 17:23, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Sources

• Can a History of Palestine be Written?:

"Such complexity, within very limited regions, also marks Palestine's linguistic development, creating, in the course of the 1st millennium BCE, a rich linguistic carpet of Aramaic, Arabic and Phoenician dialects. The earliest known languages of Palestine belong to the Afro-Asiatic language family, originating perhaps as early as 10,000 BCE, with a history of inscriptions going back as early as the beginning of the 4th millennium BCE. Many Afro-Asiatic inscriptions dating from the Early and Middle Bronze Ages in ancient Egyptian, Early West Semitic and Akkadian reflect a geographical displacement from the Nile Valley into Palestine and Syria and finally to Southern Mesopotamia. Pottery finds from Arabia Felix suggest the spread of Early West Semitic influence from Palestine at the very end of the Early Bronze Age: a development, which is first reflected in inscriptions in Old South Arabic late in the first millennium BCE. By the Late Bronze Age, Early West Semitic distinguished itself in Syria and Palestine variously between Aramaic, Ugaritic and Phoenician (so-called 'Canaanite'). This development, which, in the course of the Iron Age, developed a considerable number of dialect variations, such as Israelite, Ammonite, Moabite, Edomite and Judahite (including the literary language of biblical Hebrew by the 5th century BCE). Palestine also witnessed the early use of linguae francae such as Akkadian in the Late Bronze Age, Aramaic in the late Iron Age and Persian periods and Greek from the 3rd century BCE." Tiamut (talk) 09:32, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

• Palestine Across Millennia: A History of Literacy, Learning and Educational Revolutions:

"Papyrological evidence on regional linguistic features in Palestine and for elite families was not unique to Petra. However, while the Petra papyri ‘archive’ was in Greek, other papyri ‘archives’ discovered in Palestine of the seventh to eighth centuries were in Greek, Arabic and Syriac. Private letters, texts and documents written on more than 600 papyri sheets and preserved in papyri archives (with some Arabic papyrus documents dating to Umayyad Palestine in AD 672–89) were also discovered in 1936 in the Naqab (southern Palestine), showing not only bilingualism or diglossia – the use of two languages or two dialects by a single language community – but also multilingualism (Latin and Greek included) in Byzantine Nessana. The native language of Nessana was Arabic, while Greek was the standard language of education; the Greek papyri documents of Nessana also included official Byzantine letters, documents and private wills as well as fragmentary text from Virgil’s work and a Latin-Greek glossary of his Aeneid, an epic poem written in the first century BC (Colt 1962; Hoyland 2015: 65–6; Magness 2003: vol. 1; Shahid 1989: 143). This vocabulary list for the Aeneid was used by local schoolboys in a local school at Nessana and in elementary schools in Palestine in the early sixth century (Evans 2005: 22). Furthermore, fourth-century documents and letters mention the names of sophists and rhetors who also taught in other schools of rhetoric in Palestine (Gaza, Caesarea-Maritima, Elusa and Aelia Capitolina), some of which had chairs in rhetoric. In the Naqab town of Elusa (whose name was preserved in the modern Naqab Arab village al-Khalasa until 1948), located to the south-west of Beersheba, maintained a school and an official teacher of rhetoric (Hidary 2017: 6). Joined together into a scroll, an early form of a book, the Nessana papyrus letters and documents show that papyrus writings in Greek, Syriac and Arabic continued into early Islam and Umayyad Palestine." (pp.23-24) Tiamut (talk) 09:38, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

• Arabic Christianity in the Monasteries of Ninth-Century Palestine: Focused on "Ancient South Palestinian Arabic", a designation for the Middle Arabic used by Palestinian Christian monks in the 9th and 10th centuries Tiamut (talk) 09:44, 10 June 2026 (UTC)
• Hebrew and Aramaic Substrata in Spoken Palestinian Arabic: "Former peoples and cultures found in Palestine in past centuries had an impact, directly or indirectly, on the linguistice profile of Palestine. One of the earliest elements making a significant mark on Palestinian Arab dialects is the Aramaic layer. [...] Aramaic predominated in the spoken and written languages in Syria, Babylonia and Palestine for over fifteen hundred years, from the 7th and 6th centuries BCE to the 9th and 10th centuries CE." Tiamut (talk) 10:05, 10 June 2026 (UTC)
• The Lexical Component in the Aramaic Substrate of Palestinian Arabic:

"It is widely accepted that Hebrew ceased to be spoken in Palestine around the 2nd century CE and was gradually supplanted by Aramaic, several varieties of which were spoken by Christians, Jews, Samaritans, and pagans. During the Roman and the Byzantine periods, before the Arab conquests, these varieties of Aramaic, influenced by Greek, were the dominant spoken language of Palestine.5 Like other cases of language shift, the shift from Aramaic to Arabic in Palestine must not be understood as a sharp replacement of one spoken language by another accomplished within a generation or two, but rather as a gradual and lengthy process, probably with a significant phase of Aramaic-Arabic bilingualism.6 Moreover, the contact between Aramaic and Arabic in this area was not limited to the period following the Arab conquests: Arabic-speaking communities existed on the outskirts of Palestine before the time of the conquests;7 in fact, most of the few known Arabic inscriptions which predate Islam are from Syria and Palestine.8 On the other hand, some Aramaic-speaking communities maintained Aramaic as their spoken language well into the Muslim period. One example is the Samaritans, who became a monolingual Arabic-speaking community apparently only from the 11th century CE onwards.9 The Aramaic > Arabic shift in the Levant has not yet been entirely completed: until very recently, three Western Neo-Aramaic-speaking communities populated the Syrian villages of Maʽlūla, Baxʽa, and Jubbʽadīn. During the course of the Syrian Civil War, Maʽlūla and Baxʽa were severely hit and depopulated.10" Tiamut (talk) 10:18, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

• The English Language Teaching Situation in Palestine, a chapter in English Language Education Policy in the Middle East and North Africa has much useful information, including a brief summary of "Palestine: A Brief Linguistic History from Persians to Ottomans" Tiamut (talk) 13:47, 10 June 2026 (UTC)
• Social integration and dialect divergence in coastal Palestine Tiamut (talk) 18:55, 10 June 2026 (UTC)
• 4 living indigenous languages in the State of Palestine, per Ethnologue: Levantine Arabic, Levantine Bedawi Arabic, Samaritan Aramaic, Samaritan Hebrew Tiamut (talk) 11:05, 11 June 2026 (UTC)
• Western Neo-Aramaic speakers (est. 3,300), primarily used only in liturgical services, in the West Bank, Arabized Palestinian Tiamut (talk) 11:09, 11 June 2026 (UTC)
• The Language Situation among the Assyrians of Palestine, on the small Assyrian communities in the West Bank (primarily Jerusalem and Bethlehem) who are gradually losing Syriac language fluency, though it remains the language of liturgy, after taking refuge in Palestine following Turkish persecutions in the 19th century. Tiamut (talk) 11:18, 11 June 2026 (UTC)
• The Linguistic Landscape of Palestinian C Towns: "Arabic is the only official language of Palestine. Nonetheless, many Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza speak English which comes second in status which is 'reflected in the importance and extensive use of English in many institutions of higher education' (Amara 2003: 218), and Hebrew, which is 'confined predominantly to the illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank, and to some extent, as a component of limited bilingualism among certain Palestinians who have worked in Israeli towns as manual laborers or served time in Israeli jails, usually as political prisoners: (Horesh 2020:" Tiamut (talk) 11:24, 11 June 2026 (UTC)
• The Politics of Palestinian Multilingualism: Speaking for citizenship: on Palestinian citizens of Israel multilingual reality Tiamut (talk) 11:26, 11 June 2026 (UTC)
• Monolingualism and Education in Mandate Palestine, the role of the Mandatory government in enforcing separate, monolingual educational spaces Tiamut (talk) 11:30, 11 June 2026 (UTC)
• Bilingual Palestinians' Attitudes towards Code-Switching: (focused on the West Bank) "one of them has to be English since it is the dominant language of technology and science. Palestinian curriculum focuses on English besides the mother tongue of Palestinians which is Arabic (Farrah & Halahlah, 2020). Bilingualism in Palestine is making a noticeable impact on the everyday conversations of speakers in almost every field. English is spreading its wings to the point that the curriculum in universities is all English. Code-switching is normalized among Palestinians, especially after the widespread use of social media that has expanded the vocabulary of the individuals until they have started communicating using two languages at the same time (Mkahal, 2016)." Tiamut (talk) 11:35, 11 June 2026 (UTC)
• Bilingualism and Biliteracy study in Gaza found most Palestinian learners of English there were not functionally bilingual because of isolation/monocultural setting Tiamut (talk) 11:39, 11 June 2026 (UTC)
• "The Palestinian language situation is rich and colorful. In addition to Arabic, the mother tongue of the Palestinians, and English, known and used by a large segment of the Palestinians, especially younger generations, the Palestinian linguistic repertoire includes Hebrew and various European languages such as French, Spanish, German, and Italian. The domains of these languages are educational institutions, places of work, immigration, tourism, and travel. Minority languages, including Armenian, Assyrian, Abyssinian, and Coptic, are to be found in the Palestinian language mosaic, though these languages are restricted to speakers in Jerusalem and Bethlehem." Tiamut (talk) 16:10, 11 June 2026 (UTC)
• Aramaic: Lingua Franca, Koine or Both?: some useful information on Aramaic's long use in Palestine and the wider region. Important historical dialects to include: Jewish Palestinian Aramaic, Christian Palestinian Aramaic, Nabataean Aramaic (also Nabataean Arabic), among others. Tiamut (talk) 16:19, 11 June 2026 (UTC)

Collapsed wikitable?

There is code relating to a collapsed wikitable with demographic linguistic info I assume is related to the 1922 census (a subsection I removed in this edit). However, it does not appear when the page is loaded. Does anyone know how to format it so that is does? Or shall we delete it? Tiamut (talk) 09:45, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

History section

Due to complaints about the length of the history section I composed, and because it is not yet complete, I would like to discuss adding material from Palestinian Jews here before going ahead and doing it myself. I am specifically interested in adding some of the information in these two paragraphs:

"Towards the end of the Ottoman era in Palestine, native Jewish communities lived primarily in the four "holy cities" of Safed, Tiberias, Hebron and Jerusalem. The Jewish population consisted of Ashkenazim (Yiddish speakers), Sephardim (Judeo-Spanish speakers), and Maghrebim (North African Arabic speakers) or Mizrahim (Middle Eastern Jews, comparable to the Arabic term Mashriqiyyun, or "Easterners"). The majority of Jews in the four holy cities, with the exception of Jerusalem, were Arabic and Judaeo-Spanish speakers. The dominant language among Jews in Jerusalem was Yiddish, due to the large migration of pious Ashkenazi Jews from Russia and Eastern Europe. Still, in 1882, there were registered 7,620 Sephardim/Mizrahim/Maghrebim, in Jerusalem, of whom 1,290 were Maghrebim, from the Maghreb or North Africa. Natives of the city, they were Turkish subjects, and fluent in Arabic. Arabic also served as the lingua franca between the Sephardim/Mizrahim/Maghrebim and Ashkenazim and their non-Jewish Arab counterparts in mixed cities like Safed and Hebron. However, during the Greek and Roman period, the primary language of Palestinian Jews was Aramaic, a Semitic language closely related to Hebrew.

In the narrative works of Arabs in Palestine in the late Ottoman period, as evidenced in the autobiographies and diaries of Khalil al-Sakakini and Wasif Jawhariyyeh, "native" Jews were often referred to and described as abnaa al-balad (sons of the country), "compatriots", or Yahud awlad Arab (Jews, sons of Arabs). When the First Palestinian Congress of February 1919 issued its anti-Zionist manifesto rejecting Zionist immigration, it extended a welcome to those Jews "among us who have been Arabicized, who have been living in our province since before the war; they are as we are, and their loyalties are our own." In practice, however, Jews as dhimmi were second-class citizens throughout the Ottoman empire until its collapse." I would also like to add a short summary sentence from one of the sources I cited in the section on Sources above on how Hebrew ceased to be a spoken language in Palestine in the 2nd century CE. Thoughts on how or whether to do this? Tiamut (talk) 13:27, 12 June 2026 (UTC) Tiamut (talk) 13:27, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

References

I oppose adding any more bloat to the history section; it's out of scope NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 14:31, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Fine. The article will therefore ignore Palestinian Jews, as a result of your objections. Tiamut (talk) 14:53, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

The second paragraph doesn't say anything about languages so I wouldn't include it. The first one seems alright, except for the last sentence, which should go to the beginning. Alaexis_¿question? 17:53, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

See discussion above on scope and splitting NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 18:00, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right that the decision on the scope of the article should be made before we start discussing specific changes. The linguistic development of the region is a fascinating topic and we should follow the RS when deciding on the scope. E.g., do they discuss languages of South Levant as a whole? Alaexis_¿question? 11:01, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

So far no sources discussing languages in the state of Palestine have been shown to talk about the linguistic development of the region. Sources discussing the development of Palestine's Arabic have been used but those are not what we are looking for with this current scope NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 11:36, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

That is simply false. This is one of the sources I listed among several others in the section above. Tiamut (talk) 21:45, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

Sorry, you didn't bring it up in the discussion so I didn't see. Out of ~19 pages, it dedicates 1 page to history preceding the British mandate. By this ratio, for the article before you reverted yourself the section should not have been over 50 words, yet you dedicated ~400. Crucially, it does not say a word about the history and development of Palestinian Arabic NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 22:10, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

The subject of the article is English language use in the State of Palestine, so not surprising they do not discuss the development of Palestinian Arabic. They do note there is much more that needs to said about language history but it is outside the scope of their paper. The limitations of their paper do not apply to our article. Tiamut (talk) 22:21, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

Your guesses as to what the author would've written about are irrelevant NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 22:32, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

"Historically, Palestine has been home to many languages. Due to its frequent conquest by neighboring powers, Palestine has a long history of diglossia in which local languages have been spoken alongside more prestigious languages of government and civilization and lingua francas. A full discussion of this varied linguistic history is beyond the scope of this chapter, but it is worth mentioning that throughout most of Palestine's history, up until and including the present, its elites and upwardly mobile inhabitants have had to become bilingual, if not multilingual."

Discussing language use in a historical context is appropriate in this article. The complaints about length/ratio are premature given I began with expanding the history section first and the article was a stub. Tiamut (talk) 22:43, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

This separate paper on "Recent foreign language education policies in Palestine" also doesn't say anything about the development of Palestinian Arabic. It appears that academia follows my scope suggestion. I've already read the quoted part and I don't find it to support you. In fact, it looks like it's talking about who spoke what.

Discussing the appropriate historical context is appropriate, not adjacent but unrelated history. NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 23:04, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

Previously, you said I doubt that a page for State of Palestine would differ much from Palestinian Arabic. Palestinian Arabic is the main spoken language, and unsurprisingly it has a history of development. The diglossia inherent to Arabic in general, is also a feature of the linguistic history of the region of Palestine. All of these facts are germane to an article on Languages in (the State of) Palestine.

The Aramaic substrate to Palestinian Arabic is mentioned by countless papers, several of which I listed in the section on sources. The fact that Palestinians in the state of Palestine today speak a dialect that contains this historical remnant is relevant to a discussion on languages in (the State of) Palestine. Why would we deny the reader such relevant information? What purpose does this denial serve? Tiamut (talk) 23:22, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

My previous comments are irrelevant (this one in particular wasn't thoroughly thought about)

I'm not going to repeat myself so I may not directly answer everything here. Why would we deny the reader such relevant information? What purpose does this denial serve? This info is not denied; they can come check it out at Palestinian Arabic NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 23:30, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

Well I guess we will have to open an RfC or something. Because I support a history section and @User:Richard Nevell has indicated he would too. You disagree and while @User:LumenArchivorum actually made a heading for one, she seems to have changed her mind about it now. So, I will do that tomorrow I guess. Tiamut (talk) 23:39, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

Also, why would you ignore sources being posted to develop the page? Are you not planning on developing it? Tiamut (talk) 22:27, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

I find the lack of serious engagement with the material presented in an effort to edit collaboratively quite frustrating. Tiamut (talk) 22:05, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

It's truly unfortunate that you view it this way NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 22:12, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

It is certainly unfortunate, yes. Tiamut (talk) 22:19, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

That sounds like a sensible approach to me. 🏰 Richard Nevell (talk) 10:47, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

Do you mean including some of the history material presented above @User:Richard Nevell? Tiamut (talk) 22:09, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

I do indeed, history seems like suitable context. 🏰 Richard Nevell (talk) 22:35, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for your input Richard. Tiamut (talk) 22:45, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

I had composed a history section here and wanted to add a bit as proposed above. But I deleted it all due to objections from NorthernWinds and LumenArchivorum. NW said it is outside the scope of this article to discuss any history prior to the establishment of the State of Palestine, including the historical development of Palestinian Arabic. And Lumen, who introduced the idea for a history section (and created a section for it in this edit changed her mind about it after my additions,claiming they were "non-neutral". Tiamut (talk) 22:17, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

No, please read the talk page again. I first asked which direction to go - shall the scope be languages of the state of Palestine or languages of the region of Palestine. No one answered for 2 weeks so I started working in the direction of turning the article to clearly be about the region. Then we had a talkpage discussion. The consensus became the Languages of the modern state of Palestine, after which you went in to edit the article rather substantively and speedily in a way that not only ignored consensus, but in a very subjective manner. We are not here to promote any point of view, or to "win" against opponents, we are here to collaborately work our way closer and closer to the truth.

I welcome us putting it behind us to focus on our shared goal, improving the encyclopedia. LumenArchivorum (talk) 05:21, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

You are still making unsupported characterizations about me as a contributor in very general terms, instead of providing specific examples of POV/subjective edits. As I said previously, I cannot read minds and urge you raise specific examples or make bold edits changing the text you perceive to be POV so that we can advance towards a consensus version. Tiamut (talk) 07:01, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

That text is gone and I don't have the tech ability to show you, I am a relatively new editor. Also, as I am new I am not yet confident enough to go in and make big bold changes to sensitive articles, one of the reasons I got surprised you did. Going forward, I will be more specific. LumenArchivorum (talk) 20:17, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

I put back everything I removed with only slight grammatical modifications and a few extra additions. So whatever it is that you found non-neutral should still be there. Just copy-paste the text from the article to here if you cannot pull up a diff. Tiamut (talk) 20:39, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

I just gave it glance, noticed that the worst parts were gone, and I like to offer a compliment when I can. I trust your intentions and I have the week ahead to edit in my own time. LumenArchivorum (talk) 21:07, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

For reference, this is a copy of the page before I deleted all my previous historical additions. If there is something there you want to identify as problematic, please feel free to do so. A specific critique targeting content can help me to be a better and more self-aware editor, so I welcome those. Tiamut (talk) 08:16, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

I have made two bold edits reintroducing historical material here. I would still like to add more on Jewish Arabic speakers and Judeo-Arabic, as was entertained at the top of this section. But I will wait to get more feedback regarding length and scope before continuing further. Tiamut (talk) 12:50, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for asking. In terms of scope, the article is clearer about being about the modern state in the lead, but the body is heavy on history compared to other language of countries articles, though I see the wording is written more neutrally now and quality of sources increased. All in all, a big improvement. I would be wary to enter more history at this stage, but there is so much more to find on language education as I am looking into now, minorities as you mention is also great to expand with. When I get time during the week I will help out. LumenArchivorum (talk) 20:43, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

It would be great if you expand the languages section. I did a little more today too. Considering the very long and rich history of language use in the region, and the extensive literature discussing it and its relationship to contemporary Palestinian Arabic, I think it is natural the historical content here would be greater than that in other country pages. But I won't expand it further now. We can revisit the discussion later perhaps. Tiamut (talk) 08:21, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

Here from the WP:AE case & frankly, after reading over the talk page for myself, I don't think I can tell what you're objecting to exactly either. I'm especially confused though as I don't see anything to justify referring to Tiamut's conduct here or at the Teahouse as "combative".

It's clear that there's a communication issue here though, so let's try & see if we can get everyone on the same page. Firstly, may I ask you to clarify what material specifically Tiamut included that you believe to've been none-neutral or objectionable? Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 16:03, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

Hello,

I'm sorry it's gone now, it's in the revision history and I am not yet tech savvy enough to show you, never had to use it before as I just been editing for a while. Never had to discuss much with editors before, more a quick message about one edit and move on. Also, not used to respond to so much text in messages to me so quickly. I'll learn hopefully.

About what is combative, I do consider much of what was said in the talkpage discussion was combative, though the conversation started great, but understand it's subjective. LumenArchivorum (talk) 21:01, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

I'll try to give some advice then that I hope will be useful in future discussions.

If you perceive there to be an issue with another editor's conduct, be specific. If you believe someone's being combative, you have to be able to explain in what way, otherwise they'll have no way to accommodate your concerns. Being clear & understandable in discussions will benefit you greatly by making the collaborative process much smoother.

Also, characterizing their request for constructive criticism as somehow criticizing you for seeking advice, alongside describing them as being "driven by political motives" like you did are rather inflammatory remarks & significantly more combative then anything I've seen Tiamut say towards you. Remember that WP:CIVILITY demands civility & especially in contentious topics, civility is king.

I'll leave it at that though as it appears the recent discussion is veering back towards the constructive side. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 22:37, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

Sections needed or needing expansion

In the Languages section, the section on Modern Hebrew needs a lot of work. There are good sources covering it already listed in the article, but it needs articulation. It should definitely include some information on the Palestinians in Israel (Arab citizens of Israel), a topic also covered in sources already cited here, as well as some mention of points of contact with Hebrew among West Bank and Gaza Palestinians (as workers, prisoners, patients, doctors etc).

The Arabic section could also be expanded to explore some of the Aramaic/Hebrew substratum in both the high and colloquial form. It could also benefit from discussion of Palestinian refugee and diaspora use (or non-use) of Arabic. And discussion of them could continue there or in a separate specially designated section on "Diaspora" and its effects on language use and development among Palestinians abroad and within Palestine.

Subsections for Coptic, Abyssinian, and Samaritan should be created.

Any other suggestions, comments, criticisms, or things I am overlooking? Tiamut (talk) 14:41, 14 June 2026 (UTC)

I cleaned up the Modern Hebrew section and added some information from Urjavi and Horesh. It could still be expanded more, but it is a decent start.

Also expanded the Arabic section a bit to explain more about the subtypes and their geographical connections. I also added a couple of examples of Aramaisms in colloquial speech patterns. Tiamut (talk) 08:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that diglossia is a major feature of the ancient and modern languages used in Palestine?

• Source: Bianchi, Robert; Hussein Abdel-Razeq, Anwar (2016), "The English Language Teaching Situation in Palestine", English Language Education Policy in the Middle East and North Africa, p. 148-149

• • Reviewed:

5x expanded by Tiamut (talk) and LumenArchivorum (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Tiamut (talk) 09:33, 15 June 2026 (UTC).

Reference errors and disambiguation links

Hi @Tiamut: and page watchers, there are several Harvard reference errors on the page, you need to instal User:Svick/HarvErrors or a similar tool to see them all. There is some explanation at Category:Harv and Sfn template errors, please could you take a look. The easiest way to avoid Harvard reference errors is to avoid Harvard references.

Also I spotted two disambiguation links, Samaritan language and Elusa, please could you check them as well. TSventon (talk) 10:07, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

Hello @TSventon. I converted the Harvard refs to sfnp ones. Not yet fluent in either but I think I fixed the problems you saw. Also addressed the disambigs for now. Thanks for noticing! Tiamut (talk) 10:49, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

@Tiamut: thank you, I can still see errors in the last two references

• {{sfnp|Ujvari|2021}}
• {{sfnp|Shafir|2012|403}} TSventon (talk) 11:08, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

Thanks, fixed now I think. Tiamut (talk) 11:40, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

Thank you, it looks good, I hope to actually read the article shortly. TSventon (talk) 11:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC)

Look forward to hearing your thoughts about it, and if you have any concerns or suggestions for improvement. It is not quite yet fully complete, as outlined in the section above, it is missing a couple of subsections. But I hope it will be done long before it is featured on the main page (if ever). Thank you for your time and fixes. Tiamut (talk) 13:08, 15 June 2026 (UTC)