Talk:Köppen climate classification

Excessive examples

I recently boldly deleted the example subsections for this article. Not only are they excessive, but they're too detailed. Their purpose appears to be an indiscriminate collection of information. Anyone is free to discuss this problem. ZergTwo (talk) 18:53, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

I'm inclined to support this, in light of the discussion above (if you didn't notice it, you should read it through) at #Three cities from each country. Without there being a clear (and agreed-upon) point to the selection of examples, it is indeed indiscriminate. If the purpose is, for each zone, to give a sampling of places that are in that zone to help the reader better understand the nature of the zone, it's useless except in cases where the reader already happens to be familiar with the climate in at least one of the selected places. But even then, the reader would probably already have to understand from the description here of that zone what it is about those places' climates that merits their classification into that zone. In that case, the mention of those cities probably doesn't improve understanding any further.

If the point is to be able to look up the classification for a given city, this article isn't achieving that because it lists only a small fraction of the world's cities. That information, for a given city, should be sought from the article on that city.

Finally, these lists are the Wikipedia equivalent of a dust-collector, attracting many edits that add no value—as well as, unfortunately, serving as a shiny object for one particular perennial puppet master whose edits were problematic even before their original account was blocked. Largoplazo (talk) 19:36, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

I agree with the removal of the example subsections from this article. May I suggest rescuing the material to create List of cities by Köppen climate classification? Such a list article could be a sortable table of cities, their country, lat/long, and Koppen classification. This could support multiple information needs. — hike395 (talk) 01:23, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Would such a list meet WP:NLIST? Largoplazo (talk) 02:05, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

I doubt such a list has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources. ZergTwo (talk) 02:49, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

The concept of listing cities with their Koppen classification type has certainly been used in the scientific literature. I believe these journal articles count as reliable sources for WP:NLIST. Further, several websites have created lists of cities by Koppen classification. The idea is out there, this isn't original research. — hike395 (talk) 10:06, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Given that the examples have been restored by Yfyfyffuch, we may not have consensus on outright deletion of the examples (pending further discussion, of course). Splitting the examples into their own list article would follow WP:DETAIL, and may be more acceptable to the editors in favor of keeping the data. Would that be an acceptable compromise? — hike395 (talk) 10:24, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Pinging @Yfyfyffuch since they restored the examples and believe it should stay. ZergTwo (talk) 13:47, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

No discussion has happened for more than 7 days, so I will be WP:BOLD and revert to ZergTwo's version and create a list article. We can, of course, continue to discuss and improve. — hike395 (talk) 09:11, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

@Yfyfyffuch and Cheaters33: The examples are now at List of cities by Köppen climate classification, no information has been lost.

@Largoplazo and ZergTwo: I believe the list article does fulfill WP:NLIST, but we can discuss further if you wish.

Does the current state meet with editors' approval, or should we do something else? — hike395 (talk) 09:58, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Uh oh. FromCzech correctly noticed that some of the entries at List of cities by Köppen climate classification are not cities or settlements, so removed them . Cheaters33 then moved the list to List of locations by Köppen climate classification and reverted FromCzech. FromCzech then put a warning notice that the selection criterion for the list is unclear.

I agree with FromCzech. I think we should not have a list of arbitrary locations with climate classification. I cannot find external support for an arbitrary list of locations with climate classification, so List of locations by Köppen climate classification would fail WP:NLIST. A list of locations is likely an indiscriminate list, violating WP:LISTCRITERIA. I would support reverting to List of cities by Köppen climate classification and dropping the non-settlements. — hike395 (talk) 12:15, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

References

0°C or minus 3°C?

Do the current and the former map adhere to the 0°C boundary as the boundary between temperate and subtropical climates, or to the minus 3°C boundary? I suppose it's the latter, otherwise Maryland and Virginia would clearly be temperate. 2001:4BC9:1F9F:A32F:80BA:4BF8:F203:D4A (talk) 05:29, 31 July 2025 (UTC)

The map is sourced to this paper, which uses 0C as the threshold. — hike395 (talk) 13:42, 1 August 2025 (UTC)

I'm unsure which map you mean, the one most high showing all Köppen climates cites another source. Would be really weird anyway, because Maryland and Virginia have freezing winters, well sub-0, so they would have been classified temperate, not subtropical like on the map. 2001:4BC9:1F98:6566:3020:990:DD89:D082 (talk) 16:06, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

References

Averages

Do all the references to average monthly temperatures mean average of daily lows, average of daily highs, average of daily means, or simply the average, minute by minute or hour by hour, across the whole month without regard to days? Whichever it is, did I miss a note in the article that explains this, or should it be added? Largoplazo (talk) 16:34, 4 August 2025 (UTC)

Non-settlements in list / list criterion

Eonjcn and User:24.2.139.64 keep adding non-settlements to List of cities by Köppen climate classification. From the discussion, above, the list article is only notable because it covers settlements. The criterion for inclusion is at the top of the list article: it only covers settlements. If we add non-settlements, then the list is no longer on a notable topic, and should probably be deleted.

Can we please not add non-settlements to the list? — hike395 (talk) 13:16, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

An IP editor has re-added non-settlements to List of cities by Köppen climate classification, contradicting the list criterion. I have (yet again) removed the non-settlement data.

This list is starting to feel WP:INDISCRIMINATE. I think we should come up with a new (more restrictive) list criterion, because otherwise this article could grow to be unboundedly large (an entry for every single hamlet on the planet). How about limiting entries to the five largest settlements per country in each section? What do other editors think? — hike395 (talk) 15:22, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

The effect of a five-settlements-per-country limit is that some of the latest additions of US towns would be removed, see here. — hike395 (talk) 16:44, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

Later -- I've gone ahead and put the five-settlements-per-country limit into the list article. We can discuss further, if needed. — hike395 (talk) 14:20, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

Map doesn't distinguish between As and Aw, but both are shown on the legend

The map in the introduction does not distinguish between the two types of tropical savanna climates but the legend below it does Wrongperson58 (talk) 20:36, 5 November 2025 (UTC)