Talk:Kazakh language

‘Open’ ɵ?

The vowel chart shows an open, central vowel written ⟨ө/ö⟩ in Cyrillic/Latin, with the IPA value /ɵ/ – but IPA /ɵ/ is close-mid, not open, so this is clearly not correct. If /ɵ/ were the actual phoneme, this vowel should be placed above /ə/ ⟨ы/y⟩, not below it. I’m assuming the fact that the Cyrillic letter is virtually identical to the IPA symbol has caused an incorrect IPA transcription, but what is the actual pronunciation then? Kokoshneta (talk) 11:49, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Which chart are you referring too? In the 9-vowel phoneme chart, that chart is discussing the underlying phonemes, not the actual pronunciation. As I understand it what I think the article is trying to say (not from the cited papers though you can go through those if you like), for the purposes of analyzing vowel harmony and phonemes, ⟨ө/ö⟩ is at the intersection of the open series of vowels and neutral tongue root. It's pronunciation may not line up with the phonemic analysis. Eel of Oppo (talk) 19:00, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Vowel pronunciation: missing vowels

The phonology section of this article has two vowel charts, one for the underlying phonemes and one for their pronunciation. This is greatly appreciated, however there appears to be some issues.

The phoneme chart shows 12 phonemic vowels (really 11 with one confined to loanwords, though that is besides the point), and only 9 pronounced vowels. This on it's own is not worrying, but could easily be explained by mergers, deletion, or some other phenomena. However, the pronunciation chart doesn't show any such things, but rather doesn't list any actual pronunciation for the phonemes represented by ⟨и/i⟩, ⟨у/u⟩, and ⟨э/e⟩. Maybe I'm missing something? If I am, please excuse the rest of this comment.

Wagner and Dotton in their paper do have pronunciations for the phonemes I listed as missing, however they also list different pronunciations for other phonemes than the ones currently in the Wikipedia article. I could not access the Muhamedowa paper nor Vajda, and I understand that there are many competing analyses of both the vowel phonemes and pronunciation of Kazakh, but the pronunciation chart that is in the article right now is unacceptable (and frankly has nothing to do with their being). I'll also add that there are many, many papers on Kazakh phonology with competing opinions, and I only looked at one, so there is a lot more work to go. That raises the question of if it is a good idea to simply list multiple different phoneme charts and multiple different pronunciation charts corresponding to the analyses of different papers (like on the Tatar language Wikipedia article). Eel of Oppo (talk) 19:50, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

I reckon there must have been a mistake. Because all of the tables misrepresent Vajda, and make no sense.

That is kind of similar to the talk I made, maybe you would like to read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mormyridae/sandbox.

Also I can share all the papers with you on telegram my at is gojosimp. Mormyridae (talk) 14:07, 4 July 2025 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: 'Crazy' Linguistically Rich Asian Languages

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2024 and 6 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Samantha224466, Cionna22 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Esotericzz (talk) 23:27, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Vajda should be removed from the phonology section

I have wrote a thorough review of Vajda's work and pointed out all the issues of the paper. I have also proposed a solution and started a draft from a refined phonology section. All in my sandbox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mormyridae/sandbox Mormyridae (talk) 21:11, 3 July 2025 (UTC)