Talk:Jewish Combat Organization

Role of the Bund

In my opinion, the position of the Bund vis-a-vis resistance in general is a bit obscured in this article. The Bund was the first jewish organization in Warsaw to perform an act of resistance, and formed an important part of the ZOB. The reasons for the bund not initially taking part in the formation of the ZOB was an understandable one: the bund cooperated with the general polish resistance and for quite understandable reasons preferred that approach. The current state of the article suggests (though admittedly doesn't state) that the bund opposed resistance altogether, whereas, as stated, is was the first jewish group to actually engage in it.

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/Holocaust/warsaw-uprising.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.109.252.188 (talk • contribs) 21:37:29, 2005-10-10 (UTC)

Shouldn't be "Jewish Combat Organization" rather?

Fighting would be Walki lub Walcząca. --HanzoHattori 13:59, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

The "Jewish Fighting Organization" is the canonical translation in English, regardless of the literal Polish. I will soon detail close to a dozen English-language sources, academic and from major publishers, to document this usage and support moving the page accordingly. -- Deborahjay (talk) 09:53, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

there is a jewish combat organization founded by Jabotinsky

the Betar youth movement, the New Zionist Organization, and the Haganah were all offshoots of the literary expertise of Ze'ev Jabotinsky. is a notable source. This user will write more later in the will of HaShem. Boron.merkava (talk) 18:25, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Any relation to that in Kovno?

Yarkod 23:35, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

POV, improrper sourcing

This section:
Because of their ability to view the situation objectively, a number of the leftist Zionist youth groups like Hashomer Hatzair and Dror proposed the creation of a self-defense organization at a meeting of Warsaw Jewish leaders in March 1942. The proposal was rejected by the Jewish Labour Bund who believed that a fighting organization would fail without the help of Polish resistance. Others rejected the notion of armed insurgency saying that there was no evidence of a threat of deportation. Moreover, they argued any armed resistance would provoke the Germans to retaliate against the whole Jewish community.
is POV and the sourcing is not appropriate (WP:SOURCES--current sources are not third-party). Have removed the more egregious POV material, will look for better sources.--Goldsztajn (talk) 02:08, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

New source materials for the article

1. Holocaust Reader By Lucy S. Dawidowicz page 337, By-laws of the Coordinating Commission and the ZOB. --Goldsztajn (talk) 03:01, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

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OR image?

At pl:Wikipedia:Kawiarenka/Artykuły#Symbole_Żydowskiej_Organizacji_Bojowej it has been suggested that the File:ZOB_Badge.svg image is not historical but modern OR. It is used on some modern websites but no historical source has been found and it may be thw case of Wikipedia OR spreading to other places. @Buidhe - I am not sure who else may be interested in this topic, feel free to ping others. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 23:49, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

the same suspicion applies to this flag Sumek101 (talk) 11:09, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

I found a similar flag here listed as the unofficial Jewish "Palestine flag" in 1934, just upside-down. Don't know how much this helps, but it at least shows that similar flags were in use in other contexts about a decade prior, might help trace where the OR came from.

https://archive.org/details/hhbooker2_yahoo_001_20161017/234I0373.JPG Babeswayscaptcha (talk) 07:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

oops not quite the same sorry! it's listed as "MV "Emanuel" (Captain Arye "Lyova" Grevnov) ship's of "Hofiya Shipping Company" Hebrew flag" under list of flags of israel, uses gold not white for the star and has a red "H" in the center I didn't catch.

That page lists the ZOB as a "flag of israel" tho which is odd in itself Babeswayscaptcha (talk) 07:25, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

The OR flag design, if anything, appears to be a conflation of the reported pair of flags, Polish and "Jewish", that flew during the Battle of Muranów Square. Pharos (talk) 21:25, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

I've removed the flag too now, there doesn't appear to be any period source for this flag design at all. Pharos (talk) 23:56, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

I've removed at least the dubious eagle insignia, and have added c:Template:Lacking insignia source to the Commons file page. The bicolor flag is also a bit questionable, but appears more widely, so have retained it for now. Pharos (talk) 21:00, 23 February 2026 (UTC)

Hey @Pharos, @Babeswayscaptcha and @Buidhe -- I've got an update on this. Flag may have originated from this vexillology website, here. Vexillology community based on this Maryland flag store, CRW Flags, here . I was looking around in primary sources (obvs won't use because OR) and it seems that no photos or clear descriptions of the ZOB flag exist -- usually described as a zionist flag. Blue + white, Star of David etc. One possible place to find flag descriptions is this book by Moshe Arens. Be aware that this is self published, but the author is not a nobody. Moshe Arens. We also have firsthand accounts from combatants, but using them in this would probably constitute OR. Then of course, previously mentioned, this one Unsure of my support for delete/keep of flag file. AnonymousScholar49 (talk) 15:12, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

Yes, FOTW is the likely origin of these images, and it's an interesting site to get clues from, but definitely not an RS. As far as I can tell, there is no evidence at all that either of the ghetto resistance orgs had an "official flag", though the ZZW seems to have used a Zionist flag (alongside the Polish flag) during the Battle of Muranów Square, and the ZOB appears to have used a red flag in its bunker according to Mark Edelman. But there is no indication that any of these were specially-designed military unit flags, they were probably just the generic pattern. I don't think the flag file belongs on this article since it doesn't reflect real history, but I have no problem with keeping it (properly annotated) on Commons. Pharos (talk) 20:38, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

Recommended source: "In those Nightmarish Days: The Ghetto Reportage of Peretz Opoczynski and Josef Zelkowicz"

Most secondary histories of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising are written based on the Germans' perspective, such as Jurgen Stroop's diary and the Wehrmacht/SS data and reports. By contrast, this is a fascinating read which translates and commentates the personal writings of two Jews who documented the events firsthand, one a rabbi/archivist and the other a journalist/mailman. Since this article is lacking sources, I wanted to add this amazing one. --Scharb (talk) 19:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC) Scharb (talk) 19:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

References

B-Class reassessment request: Charles Thau

Hello, I’d like to request a reassessment of the article Charles Thau, currently rated as C-class.

The article has undergone substantial expansion and improvement, including:

• Reliable, secondary sourcing from international and U.S. publications (e.g., *Freie Presse*, *Der Spiegel*, *The Forward*, *Military History Now*, *Milwaukee Journal*).
• A well-organized structure with clear sectioning (Early life, Partisan activity, Red Army service, Postwar, Recognition).
• Use of historical photographs with proper attribution.
• Compliance with WP:NPOV and WP:V, with personal connection declared.

I believe the article now satisfies the six B-class criteria: 1. **Well-written** 2. **Verifiable** 3. **Broad in coverage** 4. **Neutral** 5. **Stable** 6. **Illustrated**

Any feedback from reviewers is welcome. Thank you! Milwaukee911 (talk) 15:31, 24 July 2025 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Flag of ZOB (Jewish Fighting Organization).svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:22, 10 August 2025 (UTC)