Talk:Jacob Bronowski

Content

Some comments below concern quotes. Bronowski's books contain some amazingly-good quotations so that, if anything, it could be hard to choose the best. I'm no Bronowski expert, but I do own, and have read, most of his books, and have seen the "Ascent of Man" series more times than I can count. This wiki article does not yet do Bronowski justice. Perhaps I, and others, can add to it in 2007. Someone more qualified than me is probably out there. - Astrochemist 03:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I added what I think is a "fair use" photograph. I have also started adding content for a fuller description of Dr. Bronowski's professional activities. - Astrochemist 01:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I added a photograph I took of Dr. Bronowski's gravesite around 1984. Perhaps someone else has a better picture. - Astrochemist 02:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

It certainly needs a better caption: doesn't it feel like a slightly tasteless joke to have a dead person's grave simply captioned with his or her own name? It's as if one is saying "this is what he looks like now". (Comment added by 138.251.192.96 10:53, 11 August 2007 (UTC))

Today I edited the caption. - Astrochemist 15:46, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Questions

I restored this page's content after it was deleted and replaced with the following question. -- Astrochemist 19:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

• what was interesting about his life as a mathematition? -- 19:12, 20 February 2007 24.199.204.34

What is a 'half blue'? Sounds like jargon. Please explain, change, or remove. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.157.179.171 (talk) 13:20, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

See Blue (university sport).—Dah31 (talk) 02:36, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments

The "It is said that science will dehumanise people and turn them into numbers" quote is lame. Coincidentally, I'm watching the video in which Bronowski makes this quote right now. This is my second time watching it because I'm trying to figure out his justification for the statement that there is no absolute knowledge. I have yet to find it in the video, and it is *certainly* not existent in this quote! That science will dehumanize people, he says, is "tragically false", and then goes on to describe a concentration camp. I am left hanging... So...  ? How does this relate to science dehumanizing people? To sum: I think this Bronowski statement is not quotable. It doesn't really make sense, and it's not self contained. Vivid imagery is the only thing it has going for it, and pictures are not arguments. - User:Lousyd

Well mate, as I remenber the whole episode is an essay that shows that if modern science has achieved anything at all this century it is the certainty that there is not absolute knowledge or if you are a purist that the physical laws of the universe prevent us from gaining that knowledge. As for the "science will dehumanize people" statement, it is clear to me that what he postulates is that it is dogma (or the certainty of absolute knowledge) and not science (the pursuing of knowledge) that really dehumanizes people. So it is natural for him to show the concentration camp as an example of what dogma can do given that he is a Polish Jew. - LexCorp 01:19, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I see that User:Lousyd's comment is based on a version of the quote that was considerably expanded on 16:30, 30 August 2005 by User:193.24.24.10. Maybe User:Lousyd doesn't think it's so 'lame' now that the broader meaning of the context is clearer? - Stumps 21:09, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

You're only quoting half of what he said. The full quote, spoken at the concentration camp, was "It is said that science will dehumanize people and turn them into numbers. But THIS was where people were turned into numbers." 2001:558:6011:1:E406:4A65:5CD1:785C (talk) 22:23, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion

This article shouldn't start off with JB's involvement with the "Ascent of Man" series, If I recall aright, his work in "bio-mathematics" was fairly notable and should be first-mentioned if only on chronological grounds. I'd do it myself, but maybe someone with more formal ed. in the field should take first dibs. - JDG 06:00, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Categories

• He was Polish in the sense that he was born in Poland.
• He was British in that he spent most of his life here.
• He was Jewish in the sense that reputable sources, e.g. , say that he was. - 20.138.246.89 10:28, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Potential New source material from BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/humberside/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8752000/8752434.stm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.100.172.61 (talk) 10:44, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00wkps1 provides another source to look at. "My Father, the Bomb and Me" narrated by his eldest daughter who gained access to his private papers. it contained his diaries and papers. She discovered that he had been involved in was time work supporting the RAF's bombing campaign in WWII; she says including creating firestorms. That is emotive, and I do not want to add this material because I do not know how to; but it does need to be added. Kuitan (talk) 07:40, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

I also think that it's important to expand the innocent-sounding "operations research" to cover the detail revealed by Lisa Jardine in the BBC programme: that Bronowski spent the war as a military scientist, seeking to optimize a bombing campaign that killed hundreds of thousands. That, and his visit to Hiroshima must surely have deeply affected his personality and his subsequent abhorrence of war and violence. The problem is: How do you reference a TV programme? Perhaps Jardine will publish something based on her research. Steve Graham (talk) 11:08, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

It was hardly news that Bronowski engaged in such work. This quote is taken directly from the opening episode of `The Ascent of Man': `Here I, Jacob Bronowski, am a man who helped pioneer operations research [as the theory of efficient bombing] for the Royal Air Force during the war' and a short Googling would have revealed such knowledge.

emacsuser (talk) 11:37, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

It was news to his daughter, who had no idea that he had been involved in maximising the effectiveness of mass bombing of people until after his death, when she stumbled across some of his papers which revealed to her the truth. Cooke (talk) 19:32, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

References

I added lots of more recent content - mostly under Legacy

Some editors may feel I added too many quotations from the 10 or so new sources - feel free to comment here. Or highlight additional material that would be useful for readers, that could be included. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jacob_Bronowski&diff=1191459351&oldid=1183795364 CanterburyUK (talk) 17:08, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Varsity as source.

Varsity is a student newspaper and so ought not to be used as a source. Indeed the quotation itself adds nothing of objective value. 2A0A:EF40:98:ED01:1C0:D181:2CB4:460A (talk) 20:02, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Agree, and has been cut along with another purple review. Ceoil (talk) 22:11, 11 April 2025 (UTC)