Talk:Italian Libya

World War 2

Is there a "Main" article for "Libya in WW2" similar to Military history of Egypt during World War II or Tunisian Campaign? The section here is nowhere near comprehensive. Roger (talk) 09:41, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

If you want, Roger, create the article Allied occupation (1943–1951), with references to WWII in Libya....For me the article "Italian Libya" is well done as it is now. BD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.77.198.199 (talk) 15:32, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Moslem

The article uses the word "moslem" a lot. Is this referring to a group or is it now just a misspelling of Muslim, meaning followers of the religion of Islam? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.254.162.192 (talk) 19:32, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Moslem is an older way of spelling Muslim. Both are technically right but in recent years most publications have switched to using Muslim. The word "Moslem" in Arabic has a connotation for evil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.108.237.139 (talk) 01:53, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Agreed! MagnoliaSouth ^(talk) 17:49, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

What to do with the articles Italian Libya, Fourth Shore and Italian North Africa ?

	Italian Libya	Italian North Africa	Fourth Shore
Scope	The territories of Italian Cyrenaica, Italian Tripolitania, Fezzan from 1911 to 1943	The 3 Libyan provinces + Tunisia and Western Egypt, from 1911 to 1943	This is a term Mussolini coinced in 1939 to refer to refer to Italian North Africa
Content	History of Italian Libya	Very short, focus into administrative history of Italian colonies in North Africa.	Long, a lot of the content is similar to the one available in Italian Libya, though there is some usefull content about Tunisia

Actually, my goal is not to merge the 3 articles together, but at least two, and to focus the efforts into the Italian Libya article. In the Italian wikipedia "Fourth Shore" was redirected into Italian Libya, maybe we should do the same ? Some of the content of the Fourth Shore should then be merged into the Italian Libya article. Some of it is about Tunisia, but I found the article Italian Tunisians more comprehensive.--Kimdime (talk) 11:18, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I'd say merge Italian North Africa and the Fourth Shore, the two articles are more about concepts of eventual colonization than about actual colonial history. Italian Libya is a well-defined and distinct topic, it certainly deserves an article on its own. Good luck with expanding it! Constantine ✍ 13:19, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi, in this case, where would you put the content of the article "Fourth Shore"?--Kimdime (talk) 14:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

OK, following this discussion, I have merged parts of Fourth Shore into Italian Libya, and another one into Italian North Africa. Following that, I redirected Fourth Shore into Italian Libya --Kimdime (talk) 17:52, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the delayed reply, I agree with your moves. However, there should be at least some explanation of the Fourth Shore concept (specifically, the terminology section) in the Italian Libya article, since it redirects there. I'd suggest having a section titled "Fourth Shore" on the term. placing Libya within the context of Italian imperialism. Constantine ✍ 18:05, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I totally agree, though I wouldn't call this section "Fourth Shore" but terminology. We could also explain there the use of Italian North Africa, Tripolitania, Cyrenaica. Though, what I'm looking for right now is some information about the use of Quarta Sponda. I've been reading that it was coinced by Gabriele d'Annunzio but I've asked Italian wikipedia to provide serious references. Anyway, feel free to edit the article, there is serious improvements to make. Regards--Kimdime (talk) 18:36, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

WOW! this is quite unbelievable ! found another article to merge : History of Libya as Italian colony--Kimdime (talk) 23:42, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Merging History of Libya as Italian colony into this article

There is absolutely no need for another article mentioning exactly the same thing, therefore, I suggest another merge--Kimdime (talk) 00:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I totally agree King Philip V of Spain (talk) 09:11, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Be bold and merge it yourself. Vanjagenije (talk) 07:52, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Disagree. The article in question should be renamed "History of Italian Libya", but not merged.--21:54, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

NB: The map needs to be amended. Kufra needs to be described as ceded in 1912 and not 1919. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.183.124.127 (talk) 19:41, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Italian North Africa

Italian North Africa is cited many times in Italian history books as Africa Settentrionale Italiana (as can be found even in Italian wikipedia: it:Africa Settentrionale Italiana), and is related to the Italian East Africa named in Italian as Africa Orientale Italiana.

I want to pinpoint that: (1)Italian Libya is related to Libya when was part of the Italian empire as a united country formed by Tripolitania-Cyrenaica-Fezzan, from 1934 to 1943. (2) Colonial Libya is related the conquest and colonization of what was then Tripolitania -Cyrenaica and the Libyan Sahara, from 1911 to 1934. (3) Fourth Shore is related to the coast of Italian Libya that was united to the Kingdom of Italy in 1938. Italian North Africa is related to Italian Libya PLUS Tunisia occupied by Italy in november 1942 PLUS territories of western Egypt occupied temporarily by Italy during WWII....B.D.

Borders with Egypt

I find the article on borders with Egypt highly confusing and at times outright incorrect. I wonder where the information about the idea that British ceded Kufra to Italy came from, as it conflicts pretty much everything else, from Italian relationships with Senusi to the borders of Egypt defined under British agreement with Ottoman Empire. The agreement with Egypt on borders was indeed ratified in 1925, but there is no evidence that Kufra belonged to British, or was even occupied by British, prior to that agreement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.96.180.245 (talk) 16:23, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Italian Libya. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cgi-bin/showfile.exe?CISOROOT=/p4013coll2&CISOPTR=597&filename=591.pdf.
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cgi-bin/showfile.exe?CISOROOT=/p4013coll2&CISOPTR=597&filename=591.pdf.
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090618082911/http://www.senato.it/parlam/leggi/09007l.htm to http://www.senato.it/parlam/leggi/09007l.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131202225659/http://www.tripolipost.com/articledetail.asp?c=1&i=2335 to http://www.tripolipost.com/articledetail.asp?c=1&i=2335
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090618080801/http://www.alarabonline.org:80/english/display.asp?fname=2009%5C03%5C03-02%5Czbusinessz%5C988.htm&dismode=x&ts=02/03/2009%2004:42:49%20%C3%A3 to http://www.alarabonline.org/english/display.asp?fname=2009%5C03%5C03-02%5Czbusinessz%5C988.htm&dismode=x&ts=02/03/2009%2004:42:49%20ã
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cgi-bin/showfile.exe?CISOROOT=/p4013coll2&CISOPTR=597&filename=591.pdf.
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110722063813/http://www.gips.unisi.it/files/wp18.pdf to http://www.gips.unisi.it/files/wp18.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110722063813/http://www.gips.unisi.it/files/wp18.pdf to http://www.gips.unisi.it/files/wp18.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:33, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Italian Libya. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121207051037/http://www.tecolahagos.com/part4.htm to http://www.tecolahagos.com/part4.htm
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.alarabonline.org/english/display.asp?fname=2009%5C03%5C03-02%5Czbusinessz%5C988.htm&dismode=x&ts=02%2F03%2F2009+04%3A42%3A49+%C3%A3

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:02, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Italian Libya. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070926145327/http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS003.pdf to http://law.fsu.edu/library/collection/LimitsinSeas/IBS003.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090616155752/http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2009-06-09_109379246.html to http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2009-06-09_109379246.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110720153207/http://www.architecturebeyond.eu/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/vittoria-capresi_I-centri-rurali-libici.pdf to http://www.architecturebeyond.eu/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/vittoria-capresi_I-centri-rurali-libici.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110324073409/http://www.airl.it/photo.php to http://www.airl.it/photo.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 23:45, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Migration of 1938.

I see a lot of mention of 1934 and 1939 but nothing about the mass migration of 1938. I don't know if you have to log in or not, but here is part 1 of the article and part 2 of the article. It is from the 29 October 1938 issue of The San Bernardino County Sun (though it is an AP article), pages 1 and 2. It says that 12,000 migrants were moving to Libya and they had to profess being a Fascist in order to go. There is more on it such as age and gender limits. Some women gave birth to babies on the train ride itself! I just thought those passionate about this article may find this useful and this does need mentioning. I'm not an expert on the subject so I just thought I'd share it. MagnoliaSouth ^(talk) 18:00, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

"Italian Libya" vs Italian Libya

Note that in the lede of this article, it is explained that the entire region was called "Italian Libya" generally pre-1934 despite being 2 separately administered colonies then. There is however a general article covering the full extent of "Italian Libya" colonization 1911-1943 in Italian colonization of Libya. But the Tripolitania, Cyrenaicaand this article are about the separate administrative entities. --Havsjö (talk) 21:10, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

The two articles could usefully be merged. --Dans (talk) 12:57, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Dans. Generalrelative (talk) 00:14, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Remove "Pacification campaign"

This page is about the 1934-1943 period of t he colony. The Pacification of Libya happened before (1923-1932). The phrase in the lead section about it and the "Pacification Campaign" section are already wrote in the pages Italian Cyrenaica and Italian colonization of Libya respectively (the exact same sentences). In my opinion they can be removed as already wrote in the correct pages, and the reference in the History section is sufficient. DavideVeloria88 (talk) 18:09, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

I disagree strongly with DavideVeloria88. Historical background is essential for this page. By way of comparison, imagine a version of the page United States without the sections Indigenous peoples and pre-Columbian history and Effects on and interaction with native populations, which cover the period prior to 1776. Any attempt to erase these sections would be a transparent effort to cover up historical facts (i.e. the colonization of Native American peoples) that paved the way for the founding of the United States. In a similar way, efforts to tell the story of Italian Libya without highlighting the brutal, decade-long "pacification campaign" that made its establishment possible would amount to a lie by omission, the purpose of which could only be –– as far as I can tell –– to flatter Italian chauvinism. Generalrelative (talk) 18:14, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Disputed edit

I invite IP 2001:a61:2a6f:8c01:e5d3:2184:62dc:8b6c to discuss their preferred changes to the article lead here rather than edit warring. Generalrelative (talk) 23:24, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Reverted Edit

Hello, @Generalrelative. I just saw you reverted my edit. I forgot to put a edit summary but my edit summary was that the Italian Libya was a colonial possession of the Kingdom of Italy in that time. Thanks. Bote1456 (talk) 00:09, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

Sure, that's quite obvious. But the status quo has been in place for quite some time and appears to be the result of WP:EDITCON. There is no one right way for us to discuss this kind of thing. I would, for instance be in favor of saying "a colony of Italy during the period of Fascist rule" or something to that effect. But what is unacceptable is erasing the fact that this colonial project was a part of the broader trend of fascist wars of aggression. Generalrelative (talk) 00:54, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

Maybe we can agree something on the lead sentence: "Italian Libya was a colony of Fascist Italy...". Then on the infobox status section, we can link it was a colony of the Kingdom of Italy. So we can acknowledge what Fascism bought to Libya. Bote1456 (talk) 11:45, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

Something like that would be fine with me. I'd just suggest waiting for a few days to see if others care to weigh in before implementing this. Anything to do with the history of fascism and colonialism can be contentious. Generalrelative (talk) 01:27, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

Proposed new section: Repression, racial policy, and the Cyrenaica genocide

I'd like to add a section covering three areas that are currently underdeveloped in this article: the 1929–1934 concentration camps in Cyrenaica, the racial and citizenship laws of the late 1930s, and the historiographical debate over how to characterise the system.

The framing of the 1929–1934 camps as genocide is now well-established in the comparative literature — Ahmida's Genocide in Libya (Routledge, 2020) is the most recent book-length treatment, building on earlier work by Del Boca and Rochat, with endorsements from Mamdani and others. I'd state this in the article's voice with attribution, noting that some historians still prefer "ethnic cleansing".

For the racial laws, I'd cover RD 70/1939 and the Special Italian Citizenship, the 1937 madamato ban and 1938 racial laws as applied to the colony, residential segregation, and exclusion from secondary education and skilled trades. Sources: Tintori (2013), Barrera in Ben-Ghiat & Fuller (2005), Fuller (2007), Cresti (1979).

For the historiographical subsection, I'd note the genocide framing as the mainstream characterisation of the 1929–1934 phase, and briefly mention that Scego and some scholars in the decolonising-Italy current use "apartheid" for the broader system, with Labanca representing the view that "fascist settler colonialism" is the more accurate frame. Attributed, not in the article's voice.

Full draft is below. Posting here first per WP:BRD given the sensitivity of the topic. Will wait a few days for comments before adding. Feedback on framing, sources, or weight welcome — particularly on whether the apartheid paragraph belongs in this article or is better placed in Italian colonial empire or Italian racial laws.

Draft

Repression, racial policy, and the Cyrenaica genocide

Italian rule in Libya combined military conquest with the legal subordination, displacement, and mass killing of the colonised population. Historians have characterised its most violent phase—the "pacification" of Cyrenaica between 1929 and 1934—as a genocide, while the broader system of racial classification, residential separation, and political exclusion that developed in the late 1930s has been described by some scholars as a form of apartheid.

The pacification of Cyrenaica and the concentration camps (1929–1934)

Following the appointment of Rodolfo Graziani as vice-governor of Cyrenaica and Pietro Badoglio as governor-general in 1929, the Italian administration responded to the Senussi-led resistance under Omar al-Mukhtar by forcibly deporting the rural population of eastern Libya to a network of sixteen concentration camps, principally along the Sirtic coast at El Agheila, Soluch, Marsa al-Brega, El Magrun, and Apollonia. Estimates of the number interned range from approximately 80,000 in earlier Italian scholarship to around 110,000—roughly two-thirds of the population of Cyrenaica—in more recent work drawing on Libyan oral testimony and Italian military archives.

Mortality estimates for the camps range between 40,000 and 70,000 deaths from execution, starvation, and disease over the four years of internment. A barbed-wire barrier roughly 270 km long was constructed along the Libyan–Egyptian border to prevent escape and cut the resistance off from external supply. Aerial bombardment and the use of chemical weapons, including mustard gas, against both combatants and civilians have been documented from Italian military records. Omar al-Mukhtar was captured and publicly hanged at Soluch in September 1931 in front of an assembled population of internees.

Drawing on the definition of genocide formulated by Raphael Lemkin and codified in the 1948 Genocide Convention, Ahmida argues that intent to destroy the population of Cyrenaica as such is evidenced in surviving correspondence between Mussolini, Badoglio, De Bono, and Graziani, in which the systematic depopulation of the region is openly discussed. The characterisation has been endorsed by Mahmood Mamdani and the late Angelo Del Boca, among others; the term "genocide" is now standard in the comparative genocide-studies literature on the camps, although some historians continue to prefer "ethnic cleansing" or "demographic warfare".

Racial law and segregation

After the unification of the colony in 1934, the regime developed a tiered legal architecture distinguishing metropolitan Italians, Italian settlers, Libyan Jews, and Muslim Libyans. Royal Decree-Law No. 70 of 9 January 1939 incorporated the four coastal provinces into metropolitan Italy as the "Fourth Shore" (Quarta Sponda) and created a "Special Italian Citizenship" available to Muslim Libyans on condition of literacy in Italian and demonstrated loyalty to the regime; the status was valid only within Libya itself.

The 1937 ban on madamato—cohabitation between Italian men and colonised women—and the Italian racial laws of 1938 criminalised inter-racial marriage between Italian citizens and Italian "subjects", with prison sentences of up to five years. Urban planning in Tripoli, Benghazi, and Derna formalised residential segregation, with new Italian quarters built apart from the existing medinas and separate facilities for the colonised population. Libyans were excluded from Italian secondary schools and from most skilled trades and professions; a parallel and substantially under-resourced "Arab-Muslim" school system was established in their place.

Historiographical characterisations

The "genocide" framing of the 1929–1934 camps, advanced most prominently by Ahmida and supported by Mamdani, Del Boca, and Rochat, is now established in the comparative genocide-studies literature, though it was largely absent from mainstream Italian historiography until the 1980s.

The application of the term "apartheid" to the broader Italian colonial system is more recent and more contested. The Italian-Somali writer Igiaba Scego and scholars associated with the "decolonising Italy" current have argued that the combination of the 1939 racial laws, segregated quarters, and the Special Italian Citizenship regime amounted to a system of legally codified racial separation, and have used the term "Italian apartheid" to describe it. Other historians, including Nicola Labanca, treat these features as components of a fascist settler-colonial order rather than as an analogue to apartheid in its post-1948 South African sense.

QuietLantern (talk) 11:34, 17 May 2026 (UTC)

QuietLantern (talk) 11:34, 17 May 2026 (UTC)

You may be interested in Libyan genocide (1929–1934) Mayouhm (talk) 21:29, 17 May 2026 (UTC)

Yes very interested thank you for sharing! Could this article be included under "See Also"? QuietLantern (talk) 21:50, 17 May 2026 (UTC)