Talk:Hasmonean Judea

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: REALLY good article, not sure how it hasn't been reviewed yet!

– Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 01:34, 12 November 2025 (UTC)

Common name

... is Hasmonean kingdom, surely? See Ngram. That would also avoiding the confusion that could arise by defining it in terms of Judea, when the Hasmonean kingdom expanded beyond Judea. So the broader term is preferable on at least two counts. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:17, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

'Hasmonean kingdom' is indeed common (and this is why it is used in the article's very first sentence) but it is correct only for the later phase of the polity. For roughly the first four decades the Hasmonean state was not ruled by kings, until either Judah Aristobulus or Alexander Jannaeus (depending on the ancient author) adopted the title. Regarding territorial expansion: by classical antiquity the term 'Judea' already had both a narrow and a broad usage. In many sources it can refer to the core Judean region ('Judea') and to the larger territorial unit ruled by the Hasmoneans and later the Herodians, which eventually became the Roman province of 'Judaea' (which too covered a much larger area beyond Judea, and included Samaria, Perea, parts of Paralia and Philistia, and from 40/44 AD also Galilee). Because this dual usage is well attested for the period we are discussing, using 'Hasmonean Judea' is fine even when it refers to a much broader region than that of ancient Judah, especially since the Hasmoneans themselves used forms of 'Judea' to refer to their rule. For that reason it seems to me a more accurate term for the entire history of the polity. Mariamnei (talk) 08:18, 26 November 2025 (UTC)

I hear your point about the use of Kingdom, although I still wonder if it's an overly technical reason to avoid the more common name. Judea remains somewhat confusing in the broader historical context for the reasons you've outlined. Roman Judaea remains relatively easy to distinguish from Judea in sources – though it might be subtle to casual readers. In any case, all of this may be why the page Hasmonean dynasty has served the purpose of outlining both the people and polity for so long. I guess I'll ponder this naming dilemma. Incidentally, now that this subject is separate from the dynasty page, a bit of untangling is likely required to better delineate the scopes. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:36, 26 November 2025 (UTC)

I don't know anything about this topic but it may be of note that "Hasmonean Judea" has 16 pages of results on Google Scholar, while "Hasmonean kingdom" has at least >40 results. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 19:26, 3 February 2026 (UTC)

My thoughts on this are laid out at Talk:Hasmonean_dynasty#Requested_move_25_October_2021, back when there was a single article on both the dynasty and the state (which was not really optimal). At the time, I'd hoped to do the work of separating them out (which would be a TON of work), so immense props to Mariamnei on doing it. And I do think that deference should be given to the article creator.

That said, I do think that "Hasmonean kingdom" is surely the "common name" if we are judging by that. It's the term I saw by far the most often when I was reading the sources - including sources on the early reign when it wasn't technically a king. That's why I suggested that title in the old RM. However, it is somewhat misleading in that technically it wasn't always a kingdom (especially if the time as a Roman client state is counted, where the High Priest both didn't have the title of King and had an unclear but clearly lesser amount of power than in the days of Simon Thassi or the like). So "Hasmonean state" is a decent fallback, as a term that appears in the literature, but is a little vaguer. I would say "Hasmonean Judea" is my third choice, but I don't think this title is unusable. It's just that it sounds like it's restricting itself more than the article actually is - the Hasmoneans considered Idumea and the like a core part of their state, not occupied territory or the like. Since they controlled territory outside of Judea, it's a bit weird. So I would gently suggest "Hasmonean kingdom" or "Hasmonean state", but I'm fine with also deferring to Mariamnei as article splitter / creator. SnowFire (talk) 05:33, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

Expansionism

The second paragraph in the expansionism section is not entirely about expansionism and may be split to different sections NorthernWinds ❄️ (talk) 06:45, 25 June 2026 (UTC)