Talk:Genetic history of Egypt

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2025

Gabaski95 (talk) 08:14, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

Study by Hassan Rouba et al. (2002) – Institut Pasteur A study led by Hassan Rouba and collaborators (Institut Pasteur, Paris), published in 2002 in the journal Human Biology and titled "Y-Chromosome Analysis in Egypt Suggests a Genetic Regional Continuity in Northeastern Africa", analyzed Y-chromosome markers in a sample of 63 Egyptian men from Cairo. The researchers used 10 biallelic polymorphisms (UEPs) to define haplogroups.

The main result shows that haplogroup HG9—corresponding to the current J1, often associated with populations from the Arabian Peninsula—is present in 35% of the Egyptians tested. This percentage suggests a significant paternal contribution from the Middle East, particularly from post-Islamic Arab migrations. The second dominant haplogroup is E1b1b (HG21), typical of North Africa, found at 44%, representing the ancient autochthonous Egyptian component.

Other haplogroups such as J2 (HG26), of Levantine origin, are present at approximately 1.6% in the sample. The study concludes that the current Egyptian male population exhibits a mixed composition of autochthonous North African components and Arab and Middle Eastern influences. It also confirms the absence of a clear genetic barrier between Egypt and the Levant, consistent with regional continuity.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Day Creature (talk) 14:59, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

Wrong Map - E1b1b instead of E1b1a

In "2012 study of Ramesses III", the map used to illustrate E1b1a is a map of E1b1b.

This is the proper map. E1b1a or https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:E1b1a.png

This is the map that is being used - E-M215 or E1b1b. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M215#/media/File:E1b1b.png

Wikipedia is misleading the audience by using the wrong map. ~2025-37433-67 (talk) 13:59, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Incorrect Claim or Citation

Under the '2012 study of Ramses III' section, it states:

"In another study by the same authors in 2020, which once again deals with the paternal lineage of Ramesses III and the "Unknown Man E" (possibly Pentawer), E1b1a shows its highest frequencies in modern West African populations (~80%) and Central Africa (~60%)."

This is followed by a citation of a paper titled 'Maternal and paternal lineages in King Tutankhamun's family'. This paper does not state anything about E1b1a paternal lineages and instead mentions haplogroup R1b. ~2026-72295-8 (talk) 23:42, 2 February 2026 (UTC)

Ramses III and Unknown Man E were attributed haplogroup E1b1a in 2012, in the study released by Zahi Hawass:

"using the Whit Atheys haplogroup predictor, we determined the Y chromosomal haplogroup E1b1a."

Zahi Hawass et al. 2012. Revisiting the harem conspiracy and death of Ramesses III: anthropological, forensic, radiological, and genetic study. BMJ. BMJ 2012; 345: e8268 ~2026-24113-48 (talk) 01:24, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

but not of Kings tut though which was what the orignal comment about ~2026-23970-81 (talk) 02:11, 19 April 2026 (UTC)

Tutanankhamun was assigned R1b by proxy and based on previous studies of relatedness.

"Due to the incomplete profiles observed for Tutankhamun and Amenhotep III, analysis led to different probability figures, despite their concordant allele results. The haplogroup for these two mummies was thus predicted based on the full KV55 data, particularly since the relationships were confirmed through a previous study (Hawass et al.2010, 638–647)."

Gad et al. 2020. Maternal and Paternal Lineages in King Tutankhamun's Family. In the book: Guardian of Ancient Egypt: Essays in Honor of Zahi Hawass, page 505, under Results.

There are two R1b haplogroup subclades, R-M269 in Northwest Europe, and R-V88 in Eastern Nigeria, specifically the Hausa. The Hausa speak a language classified as Afro-Asiatic, and is most like Ancient Egyptian among languages classified as Afro-Asiatic. They mention about R1b, Gad:

"It should be noted that the identified R1b haplotype in Tutankhamun, KV55 and Amenhotep III was different from those detected in the kit control DNA 007 as well as in the staff members (1 and 3) as the profiles differed in several loci."

So, not R1b of subclade R-M269, so that could easily be R-V88 of the Hausa.

The paper does mention E1b1a:

"The mummies that did not belong to the Tutankhamun lineage showed other haplotype

probabilities (L and E1b1a)."

Which would be Ramses III. ~2026-25094-28 (talk) 14:03, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

Completely bias DNA section

I can't believe how biased all these people against the 2017 study are, they continue to bring up samples that don't even have full geome data, how can they claim a mummy is any percent black African on samples that are not capable of a full sequence, If they find e1b its automatic they african But when they find r1b they come up with every excuse in the book, even tthe african r1b v88 originated in Eastern Europe like all r1b..But of course they claim it could still be african but when they find e1b its golden evidence of black african egyptians, You cant make this up....there are more authors in the 2017 study then the total of complaints against it and none of the complaints come from people in genetics, but archeologist with a leftist agenda ~2026-26997-51 (talk) 08:22, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

STR does not tell you ethnicity or full ancestry, it tells family relationships

All of the people against the 2017 study are guilty of exactly the bias they complain about, none of the amara mummies have a full genome sequence and STR cannot tell you how sub Saharan you are, it can't even tell you who your 4th cousin is,It designed for finding haplogroups and immediate family relationships, if any of the people complaining were genetics expert instead of archeologists with a clear African bias, they would know that, they say e1b is clear African evidence because of its origin, yet r1b originated in Eastern Europe yet it wasn't clear evidence to them, the chadic r1b v88 is literally found in east European hunter gathers and late European farmers long before any sample from chad....honestly if it's not a full genome it shouldn't be taken seriously, r1a z93 is common in India, yet in the bronze age it was common in east Europe and didn't yet exist in India, haplogroup is not the evidence these biased sources claim it is ~2026-26997-51 (talk) 08:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC)

On top of that the r1b mummies also carry European female lineages, "K" is a Eurasian haplogroup again common in European Neolithic farmers and zero evidence of ancient Africans with k....so r1b with K comes out to mostly black African? Absolutely not that makes no sense the only thing STR can tell you is haplogroup not autosomal ancestry ~2026-26997-51 (talk) 08:50, 9 June 2026 (UTC)