Talk:Epirus

Anachronistic sentence

The specific sentence is supposed to refer to the 6th-8th century (Slavic migration), nevertheless it introduces ethno-geographic terms that were unknonn to this era (Kurvelesh, Laberia etc.) that don't have a place to this historical context: Slavic toponyms are nearly lacking in the mountains of Labëria (on the Kurvelesh plateau), in the Ionian coast where today Lab Albanian villages neighbour with the Greek-speaking ones, therefore it can be assumed that the expansion of the Slavs had not reach this region. The inline citation does not agree on this anachronistic mixing, since it provides a description on the current toponymic situation not on the historical context of early medieval era. As such those terms need to go from that historical section.Alexikoua (talk) 01:27, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

"The most ancient traces of human settlements in Epirus"

The claim is complete nonsense. There were no human settlements in the Paleolithic (30,000-40,000 years ago). Paleolithic humans were hunter gatherers, they did not have settlements of any kind. The first human settlements date from the Neolithic, in places like Gobekli Tepe (~12,000 years ago). The claim is thus WP:FRINGE. The sources are furthermore inadequate. A history of Chameria and a overview of Albanian history are not the right sources for a claim like this, only a an academic publication in paleontology and human prehistory would be adequate for such a claim. Khirurg (talk) 05:40, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Human settlement as in human presence not cities. And the source is reliable. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 06:06, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

I do not think human settlement in this context would refer to permanent settlements. I’m pretty certain they mean evidence of human settlement in the area, not necessarily towns or fortifications, but just evidence of human habitation in the region, such as artefacts from caves and the like. That’s perfectly plausible. Although admittedly, quotes would be useful here because I don’t think it’s been translated properly. Botushali (talk) 09:14, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@RoyalHeritageAlb: A "history of Chameria" informing us that the earliest traces of human habitation in all of Epirus just happen to be in...Chameria. Your other source is an overview of Albanian history, the palelothic is way out its scope. You haven't even provided quotes, so we're supposed to just accept it? Please provide quotes so we can verify it, otherwise I will remove it again. Khirurg (talk) 17:57, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@RoyalHeritageAlb: is kindly requested to provide page and quote from the source he added [] which supports the supposed claim.Alexikoua (talk) 02:59, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

No need, just by making a quick check numerous sites and tools of the Middle Palaeolothic era are unearthed in Epirus. To name one:

• In Kokkinopilos a middle Paleolithic handaxe stratigraphy dates c. 150–200 kya

[].

• Many other tools from Kokkinopilos are older than 35,000 [].Alexikoua (talk) 03:24, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

  So now it isnt WP:Extraordinary?RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 03:32, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

  Stone tools from the Paleolithic is not extraordinary. But you are claiming that those specific stone tools are the oldest in Epirus. That is a strong claim that needs a strong source. Khirurg (talk) 03:38, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

  • Kokkinopilos is one of many sites since "Middle Palaeolithic sites are abundant in well - watered Greek regions , such as Epirus" [].
• RoyalHeritageAlb: traces of human activity (tools etc) are by no means "settlements". Extraordinary is also to claim that The most ancient traces of human presence in Epirus can be found in the late period of the Middle Paleolithic era (40,000-30,000 years ago) on the villages of Xarrë, Konispol (Kreçmoi Cave) and Shën Mari. As you see Kokkinopilos produced axes that are much older, not to mention that traces of Middle Paleolithic tools are plenty in Epirus.Alexikoua (talk) 03:38, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

  Exactly. It's one thing to say "stone tools were found in X", another to say "the oldest stone tools in Epirus were found in X". Khirurg (talk) 03:39, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

For the record (based on Geoffrey King, Geoffrey Bailey, Derek Sturdy. Active tectonics and human survival strategies. Journal of Geophysical Research : Solid Earth, 1994, 99 (B10), pp.20,063-20,078. ff10.1029/94JB00280ff. ffhal00158848f): Asprohaliko produced tools that date from 200 kyr and Kokkinopilos c. 250 kyr. [].Alexikoua (talk) 04:09, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Alright i will reword my edits. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 04:21, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Images

Since it seems we can't agree on what images should be in the article, and several long-standing images were removed, I removed the remainder from the modern history section. The pashalik map in particular is WP:UNDUE, since it is not a map of Epirus and in fact shows a much larger region of which Epirus is just a small part. The image of the Souliots cannot remain since the image of the Epirote women was removed. We can't have the images show only one side. Khirurg (talk) 14:49, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

While I agree that many of the controversial images in this article needed to be removed, I find your reasoning unconvincing regarding the map of the Pashalik of Yanina and the image of the Souliotes. If you look closely, most of the maps in the article cover regions much larger than Epirus, with Epirus itself being just a small part. The historical role and impact of the Souliotes in the region cannot reasonably be equated with the Northern Epirus militias, doing so reflects in my opinion a limited understanding of the region's history. That said, I agree that more neutral images could be selected to represent the 20th century, as this was the period when the region was roughly equally divided between Greece and Albania. Nishjan (talk) 20:16, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

There is nothing unconvincing about WP:NPOV. Khirurg (talk) 03:47, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

Your response comes across as being in bad faith, especially given that you haven’t provided any clear justification for the removal of the images. I would have expected a more constructive approach, particularly in light of your recent history of edit warring and the warning you received. Nishjan (talk) 17:28, 7 May 2025 (UTC)