Talk:Doghmush clan

This page is subject to the extended confirmed restriction related to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

NPOV

This page as it is lacks NPOV, and since it is extended confirmed, is hard to edit. For example (emphasis mine): "Between 17 November and 17 December, Israeli forces committed two massacres against the family..." How is this NPOV language? Marginally Soren (talk) 11:54, 14 October 2025 (UTC)

the word 'massacre' is used in uncountable Wikipedia articles and is just an objective descriptor of what happened LongueDurée (talk) 21:22, 14 October 2025 (UTC)

Romanization

Shouldn't the proper vowels between D and GH be "a" and between M and SH also be "a"? Badagnani 20:06, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

durmush

i believe the lettering is "غ" and thus, pronounced as "ר" under generic languages that don'[t handle this throat letter well. personally, i took the "R" from a highly respected dr. for eastern studies, and was actually surprised to see the english spelling with the "gh" although i'm aware that it's been used for this sound on occassion. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 15:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

English-speaking people can pronounce the Ghain/gh phoneme just fine with about 2 minutes' practice, and it's not an "R" sound, so that text shouldn't state that it's pronounced as an "R." Badagnani 18:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

that's how we write it down (and subsequently pronounce it) in hebrew. i can't speak for how anyone outside of israel would say the khamula's name, but i tend to think it would either be with an 'R' or with a soft to silent 'H'. anyways, there's certainly room to say that at least one pronunciation is with the "R". Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 20:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

It would be like an "R" in French or Hebrew, but not English. Badagnani 23:18, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

ok, let me know how an english speaker would pronounce it, and i'll add it to the article. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 08:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd say that, as with Boutros Boutros-Ghali, most English speakers would just pronounce it as a normal "G" (as in "girl"). But it would be wrong. Badagnani 17:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Place of settlement.

per to this diff/conficlt - .

Badagnani, the Ottomans were not using the word Palestine for any of their regional/subdivision distribution in the early 1800s. The territories were mostly divided into Sajaks and Wilayahs. The Gaza strip, was mostly connected to the Jerusalem Sanjak, which at those years (early 1800s) was under the control of the Damascus Wilayah... this is before the Albanian Muhammad Ali captured the wilayah in the 1830s.

Currently, we have no reliable source mentioning the word Palestine for the place of their arrival (see the Turkish source doesn't mention it), and therefore it would be original research to add the western title 'Palestine' to an ottoman sub-province from the early 1800s. I hope my point is clear, awaiting your response.

p.s. (offtopic) I'd appreciate a full translation of the Turkish source, if you can come up with it. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 12:53, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

If you know which sajak or wilayah they moved to, just use that name. Otherwise, just use the vernacular name for that coastal strip between Egypt and Lebanon: Palestine. If it's known that they came directly do Gaza and no other part of Palestine, just call it Gaza instead of Palestine. Badagnani (talk) 18:45, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that we don't have a source for what part they settled in. Any idea on what exactly the Turkish source says? Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 21:44, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

since we do not have a source for "The family originally came to Palestine", i'd be interested in removing it from the article. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 13:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

If it's known that they came directly do Gaza and no other part of Palestine, just call it Gaza instead of Palestine. Both of these are common, well-understood terms for the pre-nation-of-Israel coastal region. Badagnani (talk) 18:31, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know that they came directly to gaza and haven't seen a source for this. I've sent a couple emails to Turkish speaking wikipedians asking their help. I hope one-two of them will respond sometime in the near future. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 19:22, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I was given a translation of the related paragraph by a turkish speaking wikipedian and it includes 'gaza'. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 16:45, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Jaish al-Ummah

That's a group of al-Qa'ida wannabes in Gaza somewhere. Not the same as Jund Ansar Allah which Hamas has already wiped out. Is Jaish al-Ummah part of the Dugmush complex of gangs? They have rooters but no material backers outside Gaza as far as I know. 209.121.88.198 (talk) 13:04, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

False

This document provided by dougmush is actually from qatar and has been proven fake . There is currently a civil war in the clan because of the sectors in gaza rebbeling against hamas 2601:602:87E:3CD0:2E24:F03A:A008:6966 (talk) 14:12, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Edit request 1 June 2025

Description of suggested change:

Diff:

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ORIGINAL_TEXT

+

CHANGED_TEXT

Trudirelax (talk) 12:24, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Not done – please clarify Please format your request correctly in the future. I also don't see the actual requested change, please specify what this should be changed to. GalStar (talk) 19:16, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

"Between the 17 November and the 17 December, Israeli forces committed two massacres against the family".

This is language that is not per the standards of Wikipedia and the sources for the claim are also not alright.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 October 2025

2025 Killing of Saleh Al-Jafrawi

Palestinian journalist and social media influencer Saleh Al-Jafrawi was reportedly killed today in Gaza City. Israeli sources confirm that the Daghmash family, a clan with a history of violent internal conflicts and alleged ties to Fatah and other factions, is believed to have been responsible. Al-Jafrawi had previously received direct threats from Israel, part of a campaign targeting journalists who documented the army’s actions during the ongoing war. Known for his strong support of the Palestinian resistance, he had spent 735 days covering the conflict and repeatedly refused offers to leave Gaza despite the dangers, earning recognition for his relentless reporting in extremely perilous conditions. 197.31.58.81 (talk) 18:23, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Day Creature (talk) 19:00, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

https://www.aljazeera.net/news/2025/10/12/%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%AC%D9%84-%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D9%81%D9%84%D8%B3%D8%B7%D9%8A%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%B4%D9%87%D8%A7%D8%AF-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D8%AD%D9%81%D9%8A 79.151.248.197 (talk) 19:13, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

Edit request 12 October 2025

Description of suggested change:

The article currently says that Mumtaz Doghmush was involved with the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit but does not provide a source. I think it’s fair to say an accusation of kidnap is contentious, and so must be removed immediately under WP:BLPRS. I searched the Gilad Shalit article for mentions of Mumtaz Doghmush and found a source verifying he led the Islamic Army, which I understand to be Army of Islam (Gaza).

Please remove the unsourced contentious claim and replace it with the following sourced claim.

Diff:

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Mumtaz Doghmush, who was involved in the [[kidnapping of Gilad Shalit]], led the [[Army of Islam (Gaza)|Army of Islam]] by 2008.

+

Mumtaz Doghmush led the [[Army of Islam (Gaza)|Army of Islam]] by 2007.<ref>{{Cite web |title= Official: Abbas and Meshal to meet Saturday in Damascus |url=https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/814842.html |last= Issacharoff |first=Avi |date=2007-01-18 |url-status=dead |archive-url= https://web.archive.org/web/20070120124338/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/814842.html |archive-date=2007-01-20 |website=[[Ha’aretz]] |quote=The Islamic Army is headed by Mumtaz Dormush}}</ref>

SpelunkerOfMine (talk) 19:13, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: The claim that Mumtaz Doghmush was involved in Shalit's kidnapping is sourced to the ynet article cited at the end of the paragraph. Day Creature (talk) 15:44, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Ah my mistake. Thanks for taking a look. SpelunkerOfMine (talk) 18:27, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 October 2025 (2)

Diff 1:

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On 22 November 2023, 3 members of the clan were murdered

+

On 22 November 2023, 3 members of the clan were killed

Diff 2:

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Between 17 November and 17 December, Israeli forces committed two massacres against the family, carrying out a saturation bombing of the block the family was concentrated in within the Sabra Neighbourhood.

+

Between 17 November and 17 December, Israeli forces carried out airstrikes on the block the family was concentrated in within the Sabra Neighbourhood.

Description of suggested change:

The article contains non-neutral, value-laden language, violating WP:NPOV / WP:LABEL, and a statement that is not adequately supported by the provided sources.

1. "Murdered": Murder is a legal term. No such legal determination exists here. The neutral term "killed" should be used.

2. "Committed two massacres" and "saturation bombing": Per WP:LABEL, value-laden terms should be avoided unless demonstrably the common name in reliable sources. The Al Jazeera source uses "قصف إسرائيلي" (Israeli bombing) in its editorial reporting; the term "مجزرة" (massacre) appears only in a quoted tweet, not in Al Jazeera's own reporting. The Haaretz source only says that Doghmush family members were "killed" and that "On November 17, 109 people from the Doghmush family were killed in an attack in the Sabra district in the north."

The term "saturation bombing" (also known as Carpet_bombing) that is currently present in the article has a clear meaning, and neither source provides evidence aligning with that meaning. LooselyConvex (talk) 22:31, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

I agree, this term is value laden Mikef3131 (talk) 23:32, 12 October 2025 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. Since these changes are potentially controversial, a consensus will be required first. I note that "murdered" has already been changed to "killed". Day Creature (talk) 15:46, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

@Day Creature I am new to Wikipedia so please excuse if this question is naive.

Why is a consensus required when I provided clear evidence that the two sources (Al Jazeera and Haaretz) related to this passage do not support what is currently written in the article?

It is my understanding that Wikipedia's rules mandate that the burden of proof be tilted towards demanding evidence that value-laden language is widely accepted by a diverse panel of reputable sources. Currently, this passage has two sources, both known to be strongly critical of Israeli policies, which do not support the use of saturation bombing or massacre. LooselyConvex (talk) 17:56, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Furthermore, if a consensus is required here for three words in spite of direct evidence that the article's current language and sources do not align and violate WP:NPOV, I assume it will be all the more so for the significant addition of a "2025 Killing of Saleh Al-Jafrawi" paragraph, asked above in this talk page, and which uses partisan language. LooselyConvex (talk) 18:03, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Edit requests are only for noncontroversial changes -- things like correcting typographical errors, formatting issues, etc. You can find more information at WP:ER. I note that the edit request you refer to above was not implemented either. Day Creature (talk) 18:07, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

I still do not understand how a factual, verifiable misalignment between article and sources can be considered controversial. Thank you for the explanation. LooselyConvex (talk) 18:09, 13 October 2025 (UTC)

Edit request 21 October 2025

Description of suggested change:

Diff:

−

Members of the clan are affiliated or aligned with various Palestinian and Islamist groups, including Fatah, Hamas, Popular Resistance Committees, and [[Al-Qaeda]].

+

Members of the clan are affiliated or aligned with various Palestinian and Islamist groups, including [[Fatah]], [[Hamas]], [[Popular Resistance Committees]], and [[Al-Qaeda]].

Legonin (talk) 13:01, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

 Done Day Creature (talk) 17:41, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

References

Edit request 22 October 2025

Description of suggested change: Please change the red link to a redirect to Battle of Gaza (2007).

Diff:

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After [[Hamas's takeover of Gaza]]

+

After [[Hamas' takeover of Gaza]]

Legonin (talk) 07:38, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

 Done Thank you! Lova Falk (talk) 08:30, 22 October 2025 (UTC)