Talk:Che Guevara/Archive 22

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Che was a racist homophobic mass murderer

Why are the concentration camps he created for gay and disabled people left out of this article? Why is there no mention of his anti-black or anti-native racist rhetoric and policies? This article looks like it was written by some 19 year old hipster. WTF! (unsigned by IP)

The "concentration camps he created for gay and disabled people" didn't exist. There was some persecution of gay people by the Cuban government in the late 1960's, but Guevara was already outside of the country when this had started, so it can't reasonably be put in the article. It's worth remembering, this was at a time when the British government was still arresting people for homosexual activity.

Guevara's only anti-black statements on record are those he made as very young man when travelling through South America. For an Argentine man born in the 20's, he was about as anti-racist as it's possible to be. See here for an analysis. There is no record of any anti-black policies by Guevara, so no mention of this appears in the article.

As for mass murderer, yes, he killed deserters and traitors in cold blood. That is in the article. After the war he was responsible for executing members of the Batista forces who had committed atrocities. That's in the article. We could ask what the US and UK governments did to deserters and traitors during WWII? The answer is that they executed them. The trials of Batista's soldiers and secret police were explicitly modelled on the Nuremberg trials.

It's ok to disagree with Guevara without automatically believing everything negative that is written about him, this article is solidly based on the most reliable sources on Guevara written by respectable historians. If anything it leans a leans a little anti, as a lot of the academic scholarship in English has something of a right-wing bias, but wikipedia's job is to reflect the available scholarship. Boynamedsue (talk) 05:42, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Misleading

You have him sounding like he was a good revolutionist. He was for Marxism and Socialism. He led Cubans into a communist country. He's not a person to be idolized unless you hate freedom, liberties and the glory of independent thought. 24.198.64.141 (talk) 16:58, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

The article is well sourced. If you have other well sourced material you feel could be usefully added to the article, feel free to do so. HiLo48 (talk) 22:12, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

He/she wants an evaluation which is not the purpose of the exercise here. The rather restrictive version of Marxism/Leninism and Socialism of the historic phase before 1989 created some hatred in people. But today is another phase in history. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:E1F4:9FF:11B0:65F5 (talk) 05:20, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Photo Opportunity

May I suggest the account of the photo op is modified to reflect the fact that many who were present deny that the photo is genuine. This is reflected in the article on Rodriguez. This article might be an appropriate citation - https://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-documentary-alleges-last-photo-of-che-is-fake-1126943

I am not a specialist of this topic but once saw a documentary where a man with an American accent and identifying as a person from an alphabet agency claimed he had shot Guevara. He said he made sure he'd shoot him in the back so he could claim Guevara was trying to escape. That's all I remember. Maybe he could get a bonus for shooting him, who knows. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:E1F4:9FF:11B0:65F5 (talk) 05:25, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Geovara religion

I wanted to know which religion did he followed 39.33.125.55 (talk) 09:30, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

There’s no evidence he was a physician

The fact that it’s highly unlikely that he completed his medical studies is well documented and his academic record is conveniently missing. See, e.g., Ernesto Che Guevara: Mito y Realidad by Enrique Ros. Jaqo (talk) 12:28, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

He certainly worked in the role of a physician, often in places where formal qualifications were far less important than a willingness and ability to do the job. The claim that he is a physician is Wikilinked to our article, which says "Both the role of the physician and the meaning of the word itself vary around the world. Degrees and other qualifications vary widely, but there are some common elements, such as medical ethics requiring that physicians show consideration, compassion, and benevolence for their patients." I suspect many would argue he satisfied that definition quite well. HiLo48 (talk) 23:40, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 May 2022

Suggest that the phrase "non materialistic" in the section "Economic vision and the 'New Man'" be changed to "anti-consumerist", which is the name of the page it links to. The reasoning being that the term "materialism" has two meanings. In common parlance it is used to mean a person who is highly concerned with wealth and material possession, this is the context in which it has been used in in this article. However in philosophy it takes on another meaning. To be a materialist in philosophy means that one believes that matter and the physical world shapes consciousness, not the other way around. This is significant here because Marxism is a heavily materialist philosophy and Che, as a Marxist, would not have wanted his "New Man" to be anti-materialist in this sense. Therefore to avoid confusion and the possibility of anyone interpreting it in this way, I believe the term "anti-consumerist" is more apt in this instance. 82.30.174.164 (talk) 18:53, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: It's part of a quote, so we shouldn't change the wording used. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:02, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Criticism

I am not sure if the 'political right' part of 'his critics on the political right accuse him of promoting authoritarianism and endorsing violence against his political opponents." is from a citation or not, but it should be emphasized that, while he did have critics on the right, it is not the only camp which criticized him, right now it makes it sound like the right were the actually the only ones. Rousillon (talk) 03:43, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Broken links in Archival media

Clicking on several link outs in the archival media section on mobile plays a Minecraft Christmas song music video. Possible breaking API change in YouTube url has given way to an odd glitch when being redirected to the YouTube app. Unbiasedagainst (talk) 15:11, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Che visited the Gaza strip.

This article itself shows him in the Gaza strip yet this map does not have gaza highlighted. HistoryResearcher101 (talk) 07:22, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Cause of Death

Execution by shooting" link not working 216.36.24.25 (talk) 14:15, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

List of professions

I can see that "terrorist" was not added to the list of titles/professions/avocations: "Argentine Marxist revolutionary, physician, writer, guerrilla leader, diplomat, and military theorist." At least with a qualifier like "alleged terrorist and murderer" would be objectively accurate. One could argue it is subsumed within "Marxist revolutionary" and "guerrilla leader" but not really. The bias in these wiki articles is amazing. 70.189.237.208 (talk) 18:37, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia depends on reliable sources for its content. Can you provide such a source to support your view? HiLo48 (talk) 00:24, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

el Che

CTR+F and search for "el che"; my point is that his monicker, war name, nickname, or whatever, in spanish is El Che; The Che, not just Che. Thoughts? -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.52.7.239 (talk) at 14:30, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

But he signed himself as just Che - see the Cuban bank notes. -- Beardo (talk) 01:38, 4 December 2022 (UTC) Che was the founder and installer of broagh village as well as the Cuban sandwhich factory

Name

Once aganin. I'll try to be polite. The name? According to his national ID? 194.190.160.211 (talk) 20:24, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Once again? As an unregistered editor, all we can see about you is your current IP address, and nobody from that address has ever commented here before, so we cannot know what you have said in the past. Your comment/question is written as if we should all know precisely what you mean. But it's not in proper sentences, so it's pretty difficult to know what you're asking. Please expand your request. HiLo48 (talk) 00:13, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

And which nation ? -- Beardo (talk) 01:40, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Unnecessary apostrophe

"This moment has also been marked for it's significance in the Cuban government's slow and ultimately final ousting of Virgilio Piñera from official literary discourse in Cuba. Piñera had originally been regarded as an important dramatist of the Cuban Revolution but had later become slowly condemned and finally arrested." Robynteague (talk) 16:33, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks for raising it. HiLo48 (talk) 21:11, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

False quotation

There is a particular quote by Guevara that supposedly originates from his interview with Sam Russell and that is also mentioned in this Wikipedia article: <<Guevara reiterated that the cause of socialist liberation against global "imperialist aggression" would ultimately have been worth the possibility of "millions of atomic war victims">>. The source for this quote is a collection of writings by Guevara by D. Deutschmann, which is already rather strange since most people claim the quote is from his interview with Russell. Transcripts of that interview show nothing of the sort, however, making it more probable that this is quote could be fabrication. I have not yet been able to get my hands on Deutschmann's collection, but I very much doubt that this sentence would be found in it. 2A02:1811:C1F:8200:3564:4278:E78B:F860 (talk) 12:50, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Mixup

The passport photo shown at the beginning of the "Bolivian insurgency" section bears the signature of the name (Ramón Benítez) given in the Congo section as his alias used to enter Congo in 1965, so the passport is probably from 1965 rather than 1966, and might-oughta' be moved to that section.

Similarly, although perhaps he did it both times, the description of the changes made to his appearance correspond to those photos and perhaps should move with it. ManlyMatt (talk) 05:56, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 November 2023

Source 100 doesn't make any sense. Quote is from the point of view of someone rescued by Che Guevara during combat, from Joel Iglesias' diary, his "teenage lieutenant". The quote starts by mentioning that Joel is getting shot at, gets rescued by Che. Che does not get shot because the guards overhear him being referred to as "Che". the part that doesn't make sense is the following: ". Later . . . they told me he made a great impression on them when they saw him run out with his pistol stuck in his belt, ignoring the danger, they didn't dare shoot.", how and why would he be communicating, so colloquially at that, to the enemy who was just shooting at him? the formatting of the quote makes me very dubious as well, considering it leads the statement with "later...", which tells us that they took out a part of the quote. Therefore, I am uncertain of the validity of this statement, it is also the only online source of the quote i could find. I would suggest to remove the quote. hope this finds you well XavierNeedsMore (talk) 20:03, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done That's what the source says. You don't have to believe it. Maproom (talk) 23:41, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 November 2023

Physician should be removed as he was never a doctor, never practiced medicine, never graduated medical school and his diploma has never been shown 2600:1700:6822:7CA0:3931:7913:B26C:6BA0 (talk) 16:33, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. I don't have access to the specific sources that we've cited but per our article it looks like he did complete his degree and practiced briefly in Mexico. Looking through the talk page archives this has been discussed sporadically in the past, and it looks like the consensus have generally been that he was a physician. However, per MOS:FIRSTBIO the first sentence should only contain occupations/activities a BLP subject is notable for and completing a medical degree and briefly practicing medicine IMO is certainly not what Guevara is mainly known for and IMO it should not be in the lead sentence. Cannolis (talk) 17:54, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Views in Argentina

I travelled extensively in Argentina and the views on Guevara were unanimous; he is rarely mentioned there and is certainly not a source of pride. Many I met described him as a "psychopath" who enjoyed killing people. He apparently told his father that he "enjoyed the smell of cordite and blood" after he had shot someone through the head. Not sure if this is worth extra exploration. 86.153.86.158 (talk) 17:03, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

It definitely isn't, I for one know plenty of Argentinians that are in awe of Guevara. Hearsay is not worth being mentioned on Wikipedia. 2A02:1811:C1F:8200:3564:4278:E78B:F860 (talk) 12:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Che was a psychopath who enjoyed killing people. He was also a homophobic and racist who hated black people. This is not hearsay. He publicly executed innocent Cubans by gunshot in front of many witnesses as a warning to anyone who tried to oppose their new government. Hectorgavilla (talk) 11:55, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Striking out material from block evader. Grandpallama (talk) 00:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Grandpallama: Although I agree that the heresay is irrelevant to our article, I looked at the IP and saw no evidence of block evasion. Is there a link that shows it? If so, it would be helpful if that is mentioned on the IP's talk page in case that editor continues making edits. --David Tornheim (talk) 00:39, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

David Tornheim, the editor is unlikely to show up with this particular IP again, as it's not static. That said, it's been pointed out to me that the age of the edit is such that I'm probably causing confusion more than helping (which makes sense); I only noticed today that he'd become active again for a while last year and was clearly overzealous in wanting to scrub his unproductive contributions. I've reverted my strikethrough. Grandpallama (talk) 06:25, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay. --David Tornheim (talk) 06:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Semantic Error

Please change "Cause of death Execution by shooting" to "Cause of death Elimination by shooting"

Che Guevara's capture and immediate execution without a legal trial would be more accurately described as an extrajudicial killing which is considered a form of murder. This differs from a lawful execution which typically involves a formal trial. Thirdfemalelead (talk) 05:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done I replaced it with extrajudicial killing (per what's covered in the article's body). M.Bitton (talk) 15:17, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Can you also take care of the "Battles/wars" section, where he was labeled to be executed after a conviction. LackOfInspiration1 (talk) 10:21, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Interview with Tucker Carlson - Ex-CIA Agent Felix Rodriguez on Che Guevara death

Ex-CIA Agent on Capturing Che Guevara, Who Truly Killed JFK, and Election Predictions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwohQJrJeo8&ab_channel=TuckerCarlson

Che Guevara was executed in 1967 in a remote Bolivian village. One of the last people to speak to him alive was CIA officer Felix Rodriguez (former CIA agent). Here’s his story.

Felix Rodriguez worked for the CIA until 1976.

Ironcurtain2 (talk) 16:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

That's not a reliable source. Simonm223 (talk) 16:57, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

It is his own testimony!!! Ironcurtain2 (talk) 16:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

That's not how WP:ABOUTSELF works. Simonm223 (talk) 16:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Edit conflict, "please provide the acronym that supports your logic". LOL. Ironcurtain2 (talk) 17:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Specifically see points 1 and 2:

1. The material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim 2. It does not involve claims about third parties; Simonm223 (talk) 17:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Wow, you know how to make pretty colored text. I am impressed. LOL. Thanks for making my day, User:Simonm223 LOL. Ironcurtain2 (talk) 17:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

South Park

Officer Barbrady - There's nothing to see here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW6RWSiR88s&ab_channel=MiamiBadBoyBOSS

Ironcurtain2 (talk) 18:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Stalinism

Obviously Che was supportive of Stalin at one point, and maybe throughout his life? I'm not an expert. However I don't think this was a "defining characteristic," as laid out in Wikipedia:CATDEF. The article mentions Stalin once but doesn't really make clear Che's connection to Stalinism or why the category is there. I'm removing it. Prezbo (talk) 13:03, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

Lies & propaganda surrounding Che.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/che-guevara-executing-women/

Example number 1: The link listed above where the accusation of him “Killing 2 woman” came out including him being accused of being a mass murderer (which is false, the people executed weren't innocent and were those working with Batista, war criminals etc.

Example number 2: The accusation that he was responsible for the UMAP camps/Imprisonment of homosexuals. in 1965 Che resigned his position as minister of industries and went to the Congo. He wasn't in Cuba during the operations of the camps and nor was he involved, Castro later took accountability for these camps stating how he failed the LGBT community in Cuba. Sproogli (talk) 16:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

There is an extra special need to be wary of propaganda surrounding Che as the scope of it by far right think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation, Independant Institute, and the Fraser Institute in particular. The most commonly spread misinformative article is "Che Was a Racist, Homophobe and Mass Murderer" by someone from the aforementioned Fraser Institute which is responsible for the claim Che sent homosexuals to UMAPs which wasn't physically possible as well as accusing him of being homophobic in general when his only writing about homosexuality was saying someone he called a gay man a sexual pervert and said he still liked him anyway which is hardly enough to be any more of a homophobe than anyone else at the time and there is no instances of him punishing anyone for it. It also spreads the claim he is racist for one remark he made when he was young ignoring the fact that occurred when he grew up in a rich sheltered home and he flipped his views entirely once he explored the world and became a staunch defender of the rights of black people to the point he left Cuba with a band of Afro-Cubans to fight a revolution in the Congo. This article's misinformation is so widespread it gets cited by other articles to claim he was racist and sent homosexuals to concentration camps ignoring the fact these claims are made on an opinion piece by a biased source with not much to actually support them.

Another prominent figure spreading misinformation is Alvaro Vargas Llosa who while not as egregious as the Fraser Institue works with the Independant Institute to spread misleading claims like framing people Che killed such as Eutimio Guerra as if his guilt was questionable. In reality Eutimio Guerra had betrayed Che's group and sold them out to the Batista regime causing one of Che's men to die and then they found an army safe conduct pass on him and he admitted to doing it alongside having a trial, so it was hardly the unjust killing of a man whose guilt was questionable. His writings about Che are chock full of claims such as this that conveniently ignore context to paint Che as someone just indiscriminately killing people at the drop of a hat.

Both of these things were cited in this talk page as someone trying to give reliable sources as evidence of just how prevalent this is. He is a very morally gray man to begin with but there is a vast quantity of articles out there that look to ignore any and all nuance or actual context surrounding events to paint Che as unequivocally evil through misleading info and outright misinformation. It really needs to be a major concern for anyone looking to edit anything on this page as there is such an abundance of misinformation and bias that you have to be especially careful of any sources about him. It isn't our job to paint him as a hero or a monster it is our job to give the facts with any opinions one way or another being stated openly as beliefs held about him and not facts such as how it is done in this article where the opinion of Alvaro Vargas Llosa is mentioned with the clear statement that it is his opinion and nothing more. Plugshirt (talk) 09:57, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 January 2025

the birthday of che guevara is not correct his real birthday is May 14th not june 14th sources : john lee anderson biography on che guevara in the first page of the book {When shown the dismal horoscope, Che's mother laughed. She then confided a secret she had guarded closely for over three decades. Her famous son had actually been born one month earlier, on May 14. He was no Gemini, but a headstrong and decisive Taurus.} Tarekvfr567 (talk) 11:16, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: This disagreement in a single source is already adequately covered in the footnote to his birthdate in the header. PianoDan (talk) 17:56, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2025

Please add/insert mercenary to list of activities included in the first sentence of the article. He was compensated, made a living, from his actions and war making, clearly meeting the definition of mercenary. Dukerino (talk) 16:58, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

By that definition, all paid soldiers are mercenaries. Perhaps you might want to first modify mercenary to make that part of the definition, which currently reads, "Mercenaries fight for money or other forms of payment rather than for political interests." Or perhaps not. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 17:21, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

No mention of his racism?

"The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing, have seen their territory invaded by a new kind of slave: the Portuguese. And the two ancient races have now begun a hard life together, fraught with bickering and squabbles. Discrimination and poverty unite them in the daily fight for survival but their different ways of approaching life separate them completely: The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink; the European has a tradition of work and saving, which has pursued him as far as this corner of America and drives him to advance himself, even independently of his own individual aspirations."

"We're going to do for blacks exactly what blacks did for the revolution. By which I mean: nothing."

As an aside, where are the records detailing his graduation from medical school and certification as a practicing physician? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.213.163 (talk) 05:35, 2 March 2025 (UTC)

"We're going to do for blacks exactly what blacks did for the revolution. By which I mean: nothing."

This quote has no reliable sources to prove that Che actually said it. The origin of the quote comes from a Cuban conservative by the name of Humberto Fontova. Humberto wrote a book called "Exposing the Real Che Guevara" which the quote was included in. Again, there's no actual source proving Che said it.

As for the former, it comes from his Motorcycle diaries. While he did write them it's also important to mention that Guevara changed a lot as a person through the duration of his diaries which is clearly reflected in the opening words before his diaries start

"The person who wrote these notes passed away the moment his feet touched Argentine soil again."

To further prove this point, Guevara often times enlisted black and mixed race soldiers into his units as per Politifact.

And on a personal note, if Che was racist he wouldn't bother with helping the revolutionaries in Congo. 90.64.71.13 (talk) 07:09, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Wrong Birthday

His actual birthday is a month earlier (May 14). His mother lied on his birth certificate, but she later admitted to this in an interview. 2605:8D80:1395:A8FA:B066:546A:9192:283B (talk) 18:58, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia depends on reliable sources to support its conents. Do you have one to support your claim? HiLo48 (talk) 22:02, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Again - this is adequately addressed in the footnote to his dates in the lede. PianoDan (talk) 18:59, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

This is mentioned in John Lee Anderson’s book, which is credited as one of the best sources on the man. Also his mother literally told this to an astrologer 2600:1000:A022:47C2:CD86:41E3:358C:C7E7 (talk) 00:16, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 April 2025

I want to make two changes both relating to Che Guevara's birthdate. First, change "14 June 1928" to "14 May 1928" in Personal details. Second, change "Ernesto Guevara was born to Ernesto Guevara Lynch and Celia de la Serna y Llosa, on 14 June 1928, in Rosario, Argentina" to "Ernesto Guevara was born to Ernesto Guevara Lynch and Celia de la Serna y Llosa, on 14 May 1928, in Rosario, Argentina"

The reason is that in "Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life" by Jon Lee Anderson, the most acclaimed biography on Che, it is explained how Che's own mother admitted this fact to an astrologer on the first page of the book. The reason given by Che's mother for the changing of months was that "she was three months pregnant on the day she married Che's father". CargoDoctor (talk) 07:08, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Charliehdb (talk) 16:10, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

Che oversaw draining of prisoner's blood and sold to Vietnam

Nowhere in here does it mention the fact that at La Cabana prison (Where Che was the primary overseer) over 165 prisoners had their blood forcibly drained before execution, with some having died during the process and others carried by a stretcher to their execution afterward, and that the blood itself was then sold for $50 a pint to Vietnam. https://cubaarchive.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Forced-blood-extraction-of-political-prisoners-May-2021.pdf Bowanderrol (talk) 21:13, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Che was a mass murderer

Please add that Che Guevara was a mass murderer in the first sentence of this article. He should be put in the same category as Hitler. the sentence should read as follows:

was an Argentine Marxist Mass Murderer, physician, author, guerrilla leader, diplomat, and military theorist. Hectorgavilla (talk) 04:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

When was he convicted of being a mass murderer? HiLo48 (talk) 05:39, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

in Cuba he lined up innocent people against a wall “pared” and executed them without a trial for the public to witness. My Cuban family witnessed these executions and knew people who disappeared. He forced at gunpoint the removal of families from their homes. The only way to enforce socialism is to take away everything the people own by execution and physical violence. No one will willingly give the government their possessions. What I stated are facts. Hectorgavilla (talk) 11:51, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Then it shouldn't be hard for you to provide some reliable sources here. Facts aren't hard to find in reliable sources. StephenMacky1 (talk) 12:48, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Lots of sources exist, but they're very easy for you to ignore. 73.100.184.209 (talk) 01:23, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

If you have sources, WP:PROVEIT. Flounder fillet (talk) 00:46, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Alvaro Vargas LLosa, The Killing Machine; Che Guevara, from Communist Firebrand to Capitalist Brand" (Independent Insitiute:July 11, 2005, https://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=1535)

Guillermina Stutter Schneider. "Che Was a Racist, Homophobe, and Mass Murderer" (Human Progress: December 15, 2017, https://humanprogress.org/the-truth-about-che-guevara-racist-homophobe-and-mass-murderer/)

Troy J. Sacquety, "Che Guevara: A False Idol for Revolutionaries" (U.S Army Special Forces Command History Office: 2008, https://arsof-history.org/articles/v4n4_false_idol_page_1.html#fn:2)

These three sources support the idea that Che was ruthless, brutal, and guilty of more than enough human rights violations to earn multiple in-depth paragraphs for this article.

Aldrich.Faithful (talk) 23:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Your first source is an opinion piece with no citations filled with misleading information. For example, it paints it as if Che was a supporter of the Soviets up until later in his life when in reality, he opposed Castro relying on the Soviets and actively spoke out against him on the matter viewing it as hardly any better than relying on America. The "innocent" people listed that Che killed were people who committed blatant offenses and were very clearly guilty of crimes punishable by death in any army such as Eutimio Guerra who it frames as Che only suspecting his guilt when in reality there was a trial where asked Che to shoot him quickly because he knew he was guilty of betraying them and causing the death of their fellow soldiers and they found an army safe conduct pass with his name on it on his person. It also frames it as if he is responsible for the UMAPs that went in place after he left the country just because he was in charge of a camp that had the primary purpose of being an alternative for soldiers instead of being discharged from the military for misconduct. Not to mention the article is written by a man who is heavily biased by being a staunch libertarian opposed to leftism and is a member of the Independant Institute a conservative think tank making him as biased against Che as possible explaining the lean toward misleading claims.

Your second source is the most infamous terrible source on the subject that gets frequently cited itself because it makes so many unique claims with no basis that others use it as the basis on top of being only a couple paragraphs long and having no real substance. The author is a member of the Fraser Institute yet another conservative think tank on an opinion piece with no sources making it also absurdly biased and the furthest thing from a reliable source though I'll still play ball and explain the misleading claims to show you just why this is infamous for being the most misinformation filled source out there. For starters I find it especially laughable how you see nothing suspicious about the fact one of the quotes in this second source is attributed to Alvaro Vargas Llosa the author of your first source so you can barely even come up with three sources that don't cite each other on top of the heavy bias present in him already. In regard to him being homophobic he wrote practically nothing on the topic and the only thing he did write in regard to calling a gay man a sexual pervert was in saying that a guy he knew was getting beat up which upset him because despite him being a sexual pervert he liked him. You definitely could say that is homophobic but with that being the extent of what he wrote about the subject it is pretty below average for the attitude at the time. In regard to him sending homosexuals to concentration camps this is outright misinformation because the UMAPs that did this did so when he was literally not in the country any more and held zero power there with the only camp he was in charge of as said earlier being for soldiers as an alternative to being discharged and not a prison civilians were sent to. On top of that the quote "work will make you men" is entirely fabricated and was never used by Che or in Cuba at all. As for him being racist he had a single racist remark he made when he was young after living a sheltered life in Argentina which he then did a complete 180 on after meeting black people and traveling the world to the point he actively spoke out against oppression toward black people in all places and literally went with a band of Afro-Cubans to fight a revolution in the Congo. I don't know about you but most people who are racist don't risk their lives to fight alongside that group of people so it doesn't make much sense to condemn him for beliefs he held when he was young that he then changed entirely and acted to fight oppression against said group. For the claim he was a mass murderer it also falls apart once you realize the people he killed during the revolution were traitors in his own army and enemy combatants while the people after the revolution were members of the Batista regime who killed and tortured his soldiers as well as civilians. The tribunal he was in charge of after the revolution he also never chose the sentence for or committed the executions himself and there were trials still so it wasn't much different than other similar post war trials punishing war criminals such as the Nuremberg trials.

Your third source yet again is laughably biased to an absurd degree this time with the author formerly working for the literal CIA though I truly must commend you for bothering to give a source with citations this time. It is pretty laughable how the Cubans are framed as savage for defending themselves against the US backed Bay of Pigs invasion and how Che is framed as arrogant for mocking the US over it as well as the US for general imperialism and oppression. Though as a whole I must admit this third source isn't half bad as while it shows its bias very clearly it at the very least doesn't make wildly misleading/misinformative claims. It also doesn't really do much to show how supposedly evil Che is either though beyond the general implication that the practices used to fight a revolution should be condemned inherently as if George Washinton isn't held up as a hero despite being a similar figure while Che is condemned. I do concede though while pretty biased and not doing much to confirm your points it is pretty solid as far as providing information that is backed up with sources.

So as a whole you have largely just showcased a general lack of ability to do real research with your first two sources being the epitome of unreliable sources and your third not really showcasing what you claim that much to begin with. While you didn't make any claims as absurd as the original person who made this topic claiming Che is in the same category as Hitler your assertion that there is a need for multiple paragraphs about him supposedly being a mass murderer don't have much grounding any more than it would make sense to include in any general's page. To reiterate from before the vast majority of people he killed were those who were demonstrably either deserters/traitors within his own army or enemy combatants who had killed and torture his own men and civilians hardly making any of his killings constitute as murder by any definition. You can believe his use of force was excessive but at the end of the day it is not the place of a Wikipedia page to offer our opinions on the matter it is a place to state what occurred and consensus about it without bias which is done on this page. Personally I find him to be a great revolutionary and admire his anti-imperialism while disagreeing with him that socialism is the way forward and can see the clear proof he was terrible at running the economy in an administrative position. There have been a great many pushes by the far right to spread misinformation about him and at the end of the day I oppose misinformation more than anything and believe we should strive to avoid it especially when making changes to Wikipedia pages which are often one of the first places people go for information. There is already a good chunk of the article giving the opinions of conservative think tanks from individuals such as Alvaro Vargas Llosa so there is no real need to give these beliefs any special attention when they are already mentioned. If anything it would make more sense to include a section about how misinformation has been widely spread about him though even I admit that is a stretch as that would fit better on the legacy of Che Guevara page than here which is more focused on what he did than his legacy which gets its own page. Wikipedia is a place to display the truth in a way as close to unbiased as possible not a place to give our opinions on the nuance of revolutions so I really do urge you to learn to be more skeptical of sources rather than looking explicitly for ones that affirm your already held beliefs. Plugshirt (talk) 09:22, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

why not cite sources for your own rebuttal? How is one to engage in conversation if I don't know where you get your information from? Aldrich.Faithful (talk) 05:30, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life by John Lee Anderson is near universally viewed as the most authoritative source on Che's life taking his own writings into account as well as interviewing those who knew him. It gives about as non-biased an analysis as possible detailing his entire life successes and failures without holding any attempts to either paint him as a hero or demonize him. If there is any point in particular you want a source for just point it out as most of the points made in the first two article are disproven by the fact they claim information that never happened and therefore has no source though other claims are simply misleading and it becomes apparent how it is done when looking at the information to see how it is twisted. Looking back at my original reply I must apologize for coming off so hostile I just tend to lose my patience whenever that second article is cited with how repeated ad nauseum its points are while being the most blatantly deceptive with its false claims. He is such a contentious figure that there is no shortage of reason to detest him based in the truth that I get annoyed by attempts to do so with falsehoods. Plugshirt (talk) 22:27, 29 January 2025 (UTC)

To simplify this, most of the people who Che killed were Batista collaborators and to call him a murderer is completely ignoring everything that the IS and CIA have done to traitors 2600:1000:A022:47C2:CD86:41E3:358C:C7E7 (talk) 00:20, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

• US

2600:1000:A022:47C2:CD86:41E3:358C:C7E7 (talk) 00:20, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

@Plugshirt Unbiased? the description of the book says "definitive work on Che Guevara, the dashing rebel whose epic dream was to end poverty and injustice in Latin America and the developing world through armed revolution". That sounds pretty biased to me. You should do better to provide sources to actual articles and not a widow-approved biography that's clearly written by an author who is smitten. Bowanderrol (talk) 16:36, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

When did people have to be convicted of murder to be a murderer? If a thief gets away with his crime is he no longer a thief? 71.214.2.27 (talk) 11:44, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

Doesn’t matter whether or not if he was convicted, the man was indeed a mass murderer. Unfortunately, the Left-leaning Wikipedia will never state that non-partisan fact. 2600:100A:B1CE:E417:35BD:DB23:7E55:8105 (talk) 13:41, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

False allegations constantly being brought up in this talk page

Unless new discussions bring up sources on the so-called "mass murderer" trait of his and all the other accusations being made towards him on YouTube videos, they should be removed, as they're doing nothing more than wasting editors' valuable time that could've been spent working on improving other articles 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 13:50, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

Can you definitively prove that the allegations are false? 2600:100A:B1CE:E417:35BD:DB23:7E55:8105 (talk) 13:43, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

No reliable sources exist for the allegations. That's definitive enough for Wikipedia. Simonm223 (talk) 13:54, 25 July 2025 (UTC)

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The Usambiro barbet (Trachyphonus usambiro) is a bird in the family Lybiidae, the African barbets, found in southern Kenya and northern Tanzania. Formerly treated as a subspecies of d'Arnaud's barbet, it was recognised as a distinct species by the International Ornithologists' Union in 2021. First described in 1908 by Oscar Neumann from specimens collected in Usambiro, Tanzania, it differs from d'Arnaud's barbet in having a longer wing, a shorter tail and a darker bill. The species inhabits open savanna, grassland, shrubland and pasture habitats, including Maasai Mara in Kenya and the Serengeti National Park in Tanzania, at elevations of 1,100 to 2,100 metres (3,600 to 6,900 ft). It likely feeds on seeds, fruit and insects, and is listed as a Least-concern species by the International Union for Conservation of Nature. The Usambiro barbet has a yellow head with black spots, black wings with white spots, and a yellow breast marked by a dark breast band. Its belly is pale yellow with a reddish vent, and the sexes are similar in appearance. This Usambiro barbet was photographed on a branch in the Serengeti National Park.

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Edit request

Please replace both occurrences of the word "inferring", with the word "implying." "Implying" is correct, see https://www.dictionary.com/e/imply-vs-infer/

 Done Day Creature (talk) 23:10, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD

Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Che Guevara - Guerrillero Heroico by Alberto Korda.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for May 14, 2028. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2028-05-14. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. rescheduling per Template_talk:POTD/2026-05-14#Rescheduling_the_Guevara_portrait If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! ―Howard • 🌽³³ 21:02, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

Che Guevara (14 May 1928 – 9 October 1967) was an Argentine Marxist revolutionary, physician, author, guerrilla leader, diplomat, politician and military theorist. A major figure of the Cuban Revolution, his stylized visage has become a countercultural symbol of rebellion and global insignia in popular culture. This photograph of Guevara, titled Guerrillero Heroico, was taken by Alberto Korda in 1960 at a memorial service for victims of the La Coubre explosion in Havana, Cuba.

Photograph credit: Alberto Korda; restored by Adam Cuerden

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Our commander Che Guevara is accused of being homophobic, but he never spoke about homosexuality, and in his time everyone was homophobic.

Our commander Che Guevara is accused of being homophobic, but Che Guevara never spoke about homosexuality, and in his time everyone was homophobic. Captain ulysses (talk) 21:53, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

I see no reference to anything at all about this in the article. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 23:59, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

He was involved in the creation of concentration camps in Cuba in which homosexuals were forced to go. ~2025-32509-72 (talk) 08:46, 10 November 2025 (UTC)

He was involved in the creation of concentration camps in Cuba in which homosexuals were forced to go. ~2025-32509-72 (talk) 08:47, 10 November 2025 (UTC)

Article review

It has been a while since this article has been reviewed, so I took a look and noticed the "too long" yellow banner at the top of the page. After reading the article, I agree with this assessment and I think information shuold be spun out, summarised more effectively, or removed as too detailed. I also see some uncited statements. Should this article go to WP:GAR? Z1720 (talk) 03:35, 11 November 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2025

Change his birthday June 14 1928 to May 14 1928. Source: John Lee Anderson’s biography “Che Guevara, A revolutionary life” chapter 2. His birthday is corrected and the misconception is explained (his mother lied as she was already pregnant with him when she got married). Ch3rryp!e (talk) 20:44, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

 Not done. Please provide a link to the source. NotJamestack (talk) 20:59, 14 November 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2025

he was born in june not may 2600:4040:296D:2F00:75D5:1CC2:2DFA:C012 (talk) 01:27, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: See note a of the article, which explains that Che was actually born on May 14 and that his birthday was listed in June on his birth certificate to avoid the scandal that would have resulted if it was discovered that his mother was already pregnant at the time of her marriage. Day Creature (talk) 01:56, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

just changed ~2025-41629-98 (talk) 17:13, 18 December 2025 (UTC)

Origin of name "Che"

As far as I am aware, Ernesto Guevara gained the famous nickname "Che" because he used the word "che", meaning something like "hello", "look", "over here" etc. so much in his youth. But is this mentioned anywhere in the article? JIP | Talk 21:32, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

• Apparently it is mentioned in the section "Activism in Guatemala": During this period, he acquired his famous nickname, due to his frequent use of the Argentine filler expression che (a multi-purpose discourse marker, like the syllable "eh" in Canadian English). JIP | Talk 14:54, 9 January 2026 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 January 2026

Change burgeoning desire to desire

Thank you for working with wikapedia! ~2026-33513-2 (talk) 05:03, 16 January 2026 (UTC)

The word doesn’t need to be there and is too scholarly. It interrupts the flow of the article since I had to look it up and it meant flourishing. flourishing desire? ~2026-33513-2 (talk) 05:06, 16 January 2026 (UTC)

 Not done: Not a legitimate reason to remove the word. While Wikipedia articles are written for a general audience, "burgeoning" is not such an unusual word that it should not be used. Day Creature (talk) 15:06, 16 January 2026 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2026

Fix Che's last words to what the source actually says they were: "I know you've come to kill me. Shoot, you are only going to kill a man." There is no "coward" anywhere in the linked source. Sebitapincha (talk) 19:01, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2026

There is a typo under "Economic Reforms and the new man it says "...was volunteer workl..." where it should be work. G0000k (talk) 10:24, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

 Done Theeverywhereperson talk here 11:06, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

Citation 207 is wrong

Nowhere on the cited page 304 of the book "" or anywhere in it, it says "that the cause of socialist liberation against "imperialist aggression" would have been worth the possibility of "millions of atomic war victims"."

This is either not cited correctly or a false statement altogether. Please correct. Thank you ~2026-10417-07 (talk) 14:43, 16 February 2026 (UTC)